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Alex Murdaugh Cross-Examined for Second Day in His Murder Trial. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired February 24, 2023 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: Correction, by 12:28.
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ALEX MURDAUGH, MURDER DEFENDANT: ... him. He doesn't like go to doctors, making him go get his blood pressure checked. His feet is swollen up recently.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well ...
MURDAUGH: So that was - there was a big huge deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's that.
MURDAUGH: We hung around the house for a little while. I know that Maggie went to the kennels. I don't know exactly where Paul went, but he left the house too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. How did Maggie get down to the kennels.
MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly. But on normal occasion, she would drive a buggy, drive a four wheeler or very common for her to walk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. How about Paul? Where's ...
MURDAUGH: But it, I mean, it could be anyway, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly. I wish I could help you with that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they left and went down to the kennels?
MURDAUGH: Well Maggie went to go to the kennels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Paul - and Paul left.
MURDAUGH: And I'm assuming Paul left ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
MURDAUGH: ... because of ... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got you.
MURDAUGH: ... what happened. I mean, I'm assuming ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MURDAUGH: ... Paul went to the kennels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. And what did you do once Maggie and Paul left?
MURDAUGH: I stayed in the house ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
MURDAUGH: ... and I was watching TV looking at my phone and I actually fell asleep on the couch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. And what time did you wake up?
MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly what time I woke up, but when you all get my phone - I think one of the first things I did when I got up was called Maggie ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: ... because I was going to my mom's.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: And I know I texted her because I checked my phone. And what time we say the text was, Jim, like 9:06.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't see that. I got it written down for (inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: I showed you the other night (inaudible) ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. I got it.
MURDAUGH: So I texted her. So I called her just before that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: And I mean, she didn't answer at that point and I left to go to my mom's.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
MURDAUGH: You all just have to look - I don't - I'm not sure if I called Paul or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, and that's why we're getting the phone so we can nail down the times ...
MURDAUGH: Right. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and everything.
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WATERS: Pretty much all of that was lies, wasn't it?
MURDAUGH: The part about me not being at the kennel was a lie.
WATERS: Well also not knowing that Paul went down there, not being sure, that was a lie too, wasn't it? I mean, you're putting some detail on this thing, aren't you?
MURDAUGH: No. Not knowing when Paul left - everything about me not going to the kennel was a lie.
WATERS: And you're able to just do that so easily and so convincingly and so naturally, don't you?
MURDAUGH: Really, that's not for me to judge.
WATERS: That's true.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an odd story.
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MURDAUGH: (Inaudible) where I'm going.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... feel right now.
MURDAUGH: So do you all have any good clues?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we're trying to put a rush on that to get an answer quick. And hoping that's going to tell us something.
MURDAUGH: By evidence, I mean, is it things you think are going to be helpful?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, like the shot shells out there, the casings, the DNA swabs that we took from the door handle to see if anybody touched the door handles, any other places that we think somebody may have touched while they were out there, we're trying to collect DNA from that and analyze that. Which at the conclusion of this what I'm going to also ask is that we get buccal swab, the DNA swab from you.
MURDAUGH: No problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your DNA is going to be there, but we need to eliminate it once it's developed, so ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't need that unknown ... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when it actually is a family member (inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: No problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First you've done this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, we have talked to close to a hundred people, trying to track people down and we're still tracking people down. And that's why, who Paul was with ...
[15:05:02]
MURDAUGH: I want to tell you one thing while I'm thinking about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MURDAUGH: Paul was really an incredibly intuitive little dude.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: And I mean, he was like a little detective and ...
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WATERS: He was like little detective, was that what you said?
MURDAUGH: It is what I said. And he was very intuitive like I said.
WATERS: And that was what Marian described as Maggie's term for how he was and keeping tabs on your pill usage, wasn't that correct?
MURDAUGH: That was what Maggie said about him.
WATERS: For some reason you decided to bring that up in this interview, did you?
MURDAUGH: The - I mean that was a - I mean, it was a trait or Paul's personality. I mean, I think anybody who knew him would tell you how intuitive he was.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) coming through hours of videos that we've ...
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WATERS: All right. For the record, I'm at 46:30.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... gone out and collected.
MURDAUGH: Well, thank you all ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MURDAUGH: ... very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So Mr. Alex ...
MURDAUGH: You don't have to call me mister (inaudible) ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: ... I thank you for that (inaudible) ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you and Paul got back to the house, Ms. Maggie's there and you all ate supper, which has been prepared. And you - said you laid down and took a little nap. And when you got up, Maggie and Paul was gone or did they leave when you laid down?
MURDAUGH: I believed that - I'm not sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they weren't there when you woke up around the nine o'clock mark or so when you made the call to Maggie to let her know you're (inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: No. Nobody was in that house when I left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I'm just trying to narrow - the last time that Paul and - you saw Paul at Maggie when you were all eating supper.
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
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WATERS: Your answer was yes sir, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: I'm about to go to the August 2021 interview, but between that June 10th interview and the August interview, you were not working very much, is that correct if at all?
MURDAUGH: No, I definitely wasn't working very much. I think I was working a little bit. But no, not very much at all.
WATERS: Did you go to Johnny Parker to borrow $250,000 in order to cover the Ferris fees?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: You did?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Did you tell him what that was for? MURDAUGH: No, I did not tell him what that was for.
WATERS: Did you go to Russell Laffitte at Palmetto State Bank and get $350,000 in order to help cover some of the Ferris fees that you had taken to send to Chris Wilson?
[15:10:10]
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: And did you get those fees before you sign any paperwork or documentation?
MURDAUGH: I've heard testimony about that in this case, but I can't tell you the specifics of that.
WATERS: Okay. You don't recall that?
MURDAUGH: Do I recall when I signed paperwork?
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: No, sir.
WATERS: You don't recall that you got the money a month before you had to sign the paperwork?
MURDAUGH: No, sir, I don't recall that.
WATERS: (Inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: I'm not disputing that, but I don't recall it.
WATERS: All right. Did you go to your best friend, Chris Wilson, and convince him to cover $192,000, the remaining $190,000 in order for him to send that email to your law firm as if those fees had been there all along?
MURDAUGH: I spoke to Chris Wilson and did not have the full amount of the fees. And I got Chris Wilson to put the remaining fees in his trust account.
WATERS: And when you did that, you didn't tell him the truth about your life. You just asked him to cover you, correct?
MURDAUGH: No, I didn't - I did not tell him.
WATERS: And he agreed to do that because of his belief of who you really were or who he thought you were.
MURDAUGH: He agreed to do that for whatever reasons. I assume that was a big part of it.
WATERS: And once that $600,000 was transferred, Chris Wilson sent an email to you saying those fees had been there - were in his trust account, correct? MURDAUGH: That is correct.
WATERS: And then you forwarded that email to Lee Cope and Jeanne Seckinger, correct?
MURDAUGH: I know I forwarded to Jeanne and I've heard that testimony about forwarding it to Lee Cope, so I believe that's correct.
WATERS: Okay.
(Inaudible) from PSB?
MURDAUGH: Because at that time, there were limitations on how much I could borrow, because Mags was passed and so I was limited.
WATERS: Okay.
MURDAUGH: I couldn't get a loan against Moselle and had to get a loan against Palmetto State - I mean against Edisto.
WATERS: Going to the third interview.
All right, I'm going to go to 17:45.
Bear with me. We're having some technical difficulties.
Jury's seen this, so - I mean, again, you're repeating the same lies over and over again.
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Effortlessly and convincingly.
MURDAUGH: I don't know about that.
WATERS: Well, they can see it there.
MURDAUGH: Agree with that?
WATERS: Nobody yelled at you.
MURDAUGH: Nobody yelled at me. Nobody - none of these guys were ever discourteous to me like ...
WATERS: Nobody what?
MURDAUGH: I said none of those guys are ever discourteous to me. You made a comment earlier that David Owens was mean or something about being mean and he was never mean to me.
WATERS: All right. But you decided to lie in part because you distrusted David Owen.
MURDAUGH: I distrust the SLED in general.
WATERS: Mm-hm. MURDAUGH: And I particularly distrusted who I thought was David Owen at the time.
WATERS: Okay.
[15:15:01]
MURDAUGH: Who turned out not to be David Owen.
WATERS: So - wait a minute, I want to be clear, you're saying now you thought that this was the - some David Owen that had something to do with Greg Alexander 10 years ago?
MURDAUGH: No, sir. And I'm not saying that now, I said that all along.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: The person that I saw and watched in Greg Alexander's trial that was clear to me was - just - it was terrible what they did to Greg Alexander. And the person at SLED who was responsible for that was a guy named David.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: All right? And I'm not going to get into his last name. I thought that David Owens that night was that guy. Later down the road and it was a while, I checked into that and I found out that I was mistaken that it was not David Owen, it was a different David.
WATERS: So when we went back and we spent a lot of time going through that first statement, you're telling me now that you were sitting there thinking that this was a completely different guy the whole time and that was on your mind during that entire interview?
MURDAUGH: Yes, at the time ...
WATERS: Okay. All right.
MURDAUGH: ... I thought that David Owen - no, I didn't think David Owen was a different person. I thought that David Owens was the person that my dad and I had watched.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: Just - and my dad and I truly thought evidence was manufactured.
WATERS: Okay. You said that part.
MURDAUGH: And ...
WATERS: You said that part.
MURDAUGH: ... and I thought it was David Owen.
WATERS: Mm-hm. MURDAUGH: And I was wrong about that.
WATERS: Okay.
MURDAUGH: But that's what I thought that night.
WATERS: Any other factors or details you want to add about your decision (inaudible) ...
MURDAUGH: I want to answer any question you have, Mr. Waters.
WATERS: No, no, I mean, let's - any more?
MURDAUGH: Do you have any more questions?
WATERS: No. I mean any more about your decision to lie? I mean, I just want to - let's get it all out now. Okay.
MURDAUGH: If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer.
WATERS: All right. Well, I do.
Tell him about the replacement Blackout. You initially told law enforcement that you weren't sure whether or not there was one, correct? Correct?
MURDAUGH: Oh, no, sir. You're absolutely wrong about that.
WATERS: What did you say that?
MURDAUGH: Shortly after this, it became being told that Paul's gun had been stolen.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: And the one you heard talk about being stolen from the thing and I'm not sure how I learned this, but I learned that somebody - I believe SLED had gone to John Bedingfield who made those guns and can only find paperwork for two Blackouts. One of which they were saying was stolen '17 and that's what they were telling me. And I was certain and told them that I was certain that there was a third one.
WATERS: But initially in June 8th and June 10th or June 10th, you were saying that - you thought that John (ph) replaced it and then you kind of wavered and then eventually said you did replace it, correct?
MURDAUGH: I don't believe that's correct. No, sir.
WATERS: You don't believe that's correct?
MURDAUGH: No, I don't believe that's correct.
WATERS: Did you say to law enforcement that you thought that this third guy, and the replacement Blackout had gone missing in Christmas of 2020.
MURDAUGH: The - it did go missing in Christmas 2020.
WATERS: So you're telling them that one also had been missing six months prior, correct? Wait, answer my question first and then you can explain. Did you all - tell law enforcement that that gun had been missing since Christmas time?
MURDAUGH: I told law enforcement that when we looked for it at Christmas time, we could not find it.
WATERS: Okay.
MURDAUGH: And that was accurate. We looked for it when we were trying to shoot hogs, when we had a group of people out there and we could not find it.
WATERS: Okay. But you now know that it was there as late as turkey season.
MURDAUGH: I - no, sir. I know that Will Loving and PawPaw had it right before turkey season like Will Loving testified to.
WATERS: Okay. So it was around actually.
MURDAUGH: It was around there at some point in time there, yes, sir.
WATERS: All right. So you're saying it got stolen a second time or you just don't know?
MURDAUGH: No, I'm not ...
WATERS: The 12-year-old stole it the second time?
MURDAUGH: I never said the 12-year-old stole any gun, Mr. Waters.
WATERS: Sorry, the five-two people stole it the second time?
MURDAUGH: I don't know that it was stolen, I just know that when we look forward to Christmas time, we couldn't find it. And I know this, I know that I hadn't seen that gun in a long time.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: I've heard the testimony that people who were at my house using guns and hunting with us all the time. Rogan, Buster, they didn't - I can't remember about Buster. But there were several people who didn't even know that gun had been replaced.
[15:20:03]
So that tells me that that gun did not stay where our regular guns were and I know that I didn't see it there and that tells me that they didn't see it there.
WATERS: And, of course, it didn't see it there because it's got to be missing, correct, Mr. Murdaugh?
MURDAUGH: Ask that question again.
WATERS: (Inaudible) circumstance for your latest story to work is that it's got to be missing as well. It was - when you told law enforcement it was missing at Christmas time, now we've had a testimony at this trial and now you're still claiming that you never saw it. It must have been kept somewhere else. Where else would it have been kept?
MURDAUGH: It could have been get anywhere. Mr. Waters, the way Paul did guns, the way guns were handled around there. I was terrible about that.
WATERS: You're terrible about that.
MURDAUGH: I should have been stricter.
WATERS: But you know that that third gun was fired right outside the gun room door in turkey season of 2021, correct?
MURDAUGH: I know that now based on what Will Loving said.
WATERS: And you know it was also fired across the street at your shooting house around that same time, don't you?
MURDAUGH: No, sir. I don't know that. But I know that it - I would assume that it was fired at the shooting range, but I have no - I don't have any reason to believe it was done in close proximity to that time.
WATERS: Few months go by - a couple months go by and you get confronted about your thefts from the law firm, correct?
MURDAUGH: September of '21.
WATERS: And unlike June the 7th when Jeanne confronted you this time, they had unassailable evidence, correct?
MURDAUGH: Yes, that's correct. I mean, they had ...
WATERS: No wiggling out of this one, correct?
MURDAUGH: I didn't try to wiggle out of this one.
WATERS: Well, you've been wiggling before, though, right? You wiggled when you stole your brother's money twice, correct?
MURDAUGH: I admit almost all of these things, Mr. Waters, but that's one of the things that I take dispute with.
WATERS: Which one.
MURDAUGH: What's one that I stole that money that you're referring to?
WATERS: You're going to dispute that? Let's hear about that then. Tell me why you dispute cashing that check twice.
MURDAUGH: I don't dispute cashing that check twice. WATERS: But you're going to tell this jury that you accidentally didn't realize that you're supposed to be receiving some $125,000 check or 121 however thousand dollar check two times.
MURDAUGH: I'm - what I'll tell you ...
WATERS: How many $120,000 checks do you receive?
MURDAUGH: I got that check and this is several months after - I mean, you can look at my finances and you can see how I was doing. I didn't balance the checkbook.
WATERS: Mm-hm.
MURDAUGH: But the fact of the matter is when I got that check, I asked about it and I was told mistakenly that it was for me that I had done - participated in that year end thing, which I did sometimes, not often but sometimes. Apparently a new chick got cashed. I cashed that check. Then a year later ...
WATERS: Yes, where did you keep that one for you?
MURDAUGH: I don't know where it was. It's obviously in my desk. But Mr. Waters ...
WATERS: So you found it in your desk ...
MURDAUGH: No, I didn't find it.
WATERS: Well, you say it was obviously in your desk, so you remember that - you remember finding it in your desk?
MURDAUGH: No, I remember when we ...
WATERS: Did you go to finance and say I just found this year old check, is this right?
MURDAUGH: No.
WATERS: No, you took it to the back, didn't you?
MURDAUGH: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, Your Honor.
MURDAUGH: I didn't ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) not allowing Mr. Murdaugh to answer the question.
MURDAUGH: So when this came up, that check got - because there's no way that I can have a check in our law firm with the way accounting is and that I can cash a check twice and think that - that's impossible. So to cash a check that's already been checked, it's gone through - there's no question is gone through that (inaudible).
[15:25:03]
Well, what happened is I had a note - we used to get a rent check, we get little checks, I'd have checks and they pile up, the small checks, that check got mixed in and it got sent to the bank and it got deposited.
WATERS: Keep going.
MURDAUGH: And that was a year after.
WATERS: Okay.
MURDAUGH: But I do dispute that I stole that money. That money.
WATERS: All right. Well, I mean you brought it up so any other money you dispute stealing?
MURDAUGH: No. No, sir, you brought it up. I was just telling you that that was the one I disputed.
WATERS: All right. And you heard Ronnie Crosby and Mark Ball testified about that, correct?
MURDAUGH: I heard Ronnie and Mark testify about what they thought about it, yes sir.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: A quick break, we'll return to cross- examination in a minute.
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[15:28:30]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: We're going to take you back to the courtroom in Walterboro, South Carolina for the testimony of Alex Murdaugh.
WATERS: And the that you told of an unknown assailant was to try to make people think that the "real guy," bad guys, we're back again to finish the job, isn't that true?
MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not true.
WATERS: That's not the effect that you intended that story to have? Did it have that effect on people that you knew?
MURDAUGH: I don't ...
WATERS: ... isn't that the effect that it had?
MURDAUGH: I don't think there's many people that believe that. No, sir. I know the people that were - I mean, the people that were closest to me didn't believe that, so no sir.
WATERS: When accountability is at your door, Mr. Murdaugh, bad things happened, don't - isn't that true? MURDAUGH: When accountability is at my doorstep ...
WATERS: (Inaudible) go ahead ...
MURDAUGH: ... bad things happen. What do you mean by bad things?
WATERS: June 7th happened. September 4th happened.
MURDAUGH: I don't believe that June 7th happened because accountability issues were at my doorstep.
[15:29:54]
