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Alex Murdaugh Cross-Examined For Second Day In His Murder Trial. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired February 24, 2023 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:03]
ALEX MURDAUGH, MURDER DEFENDANT: I tried to get a man to help me kill myself because issues were at my doorstep.
CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: Every time -- I'm sorry, for the first time in your life of privilege and prominence and wealth, when you were facing accountability each time, suddenly you became a victim and everyone ran to your aid. Isn't that true?
MURDAUGH: I disagree with that. But -- and -- what you're saying --
EDWARDS: For you is extraordinary provocation, isn't that true, Mr. Murdaugh?
WATERS: Let me just finish this. You seem to be implying two dates, June 7 and September and talking about accountability issues and, I mean, those, to me, those two things are totally different. There were no accountability issues on my doorstep on June 7.
WATERS: That's what you say.
MURDAUGH: And in September --
WATERS: Not what other people say.
MILGRAM: -- I was trying to -- well, no? I mean, been a lot of people in September that wasn't designed to gain me sympathy. That was designed for me not to be here because I didn't want my son to have to deal with the wake of the things that I had done.
WATERS: But that's not the story you told. The story that came out of your mouth right away was the story of you getting attacked by some unknown assailant while you were trying to change a tire and run flat. That's the story that you told.
MURDAUGH: That is the story I told, but that's because the man who shot me did not shoot me that day as I intended. And I had to have a story as to how I got shot. So I lied.
WATERS: So you lied. And you're saying that people in your family and your friends didn't instantly believe that whoever these 12 year old marauders were, were back to finish the job.
MURDAUGH: You keep using --
WATERS: It happen just two hours after you've been confronted by Chris Wilson?
MURDAUGH: I think probably some people may have thought that when it first happened, but I think Randy, Ronnie, Mark, those guys, I think they knew very quickly that this was not -- I think they knew this was something that I'd done.
WATERS: Shame for you. I asked this before, but shame for you is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
MURDAUGH: Shame for me is an extraordinary provocation, I don't like to be shamed.
WATERS: The prospect of humiliating the legacy is an extraordinary provocation to you, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
MURDAUGH: What do you mean by an extraordinary provocation?
WATERS: It affects you deeply. It's your biggest concern, is it not?
MURDAUGH: No, that's not my biggest concern.
WATERS: You're a middle aged man like me.
MURDAUGH: I'm 54 years old. I'm not sure. You look like you're in better shape than me. So, I don't know.
WATERS: I was actually a couple of years behind you in law school. But we never knew each other, did we?
MURDAUGH: I never knew you know, sir.
WATERS: Had a very successful career, up until this point. It's a simple question.
MURDAUGH: And the answer to that is no, Mr. Waters. I was an addict for more than 20 years.
WATERS: All right. So making millions of dollars over a decade is not having a successful career, is that what you're going to tell the jury?
MURDAUGH: No, that's not a successful career. When you --
WATERS: OK, well, let me put it like that.
MURDAUGH: No, hang on. Let me just --
WATERS: All right, go ahead.
MURDAUGH: You know, it may have been what you perceive as a successful career, but, you know, I was the one who was fighting that. You don't have a very high self-esteem when you're an addict, so I don't deem myself a success. [15:35:12]
WATERS: All right. Would you agree that at least outwardly, you're perceived as successful?
MURDAUGH: I made a bunch money, if that's what you want to get at.
WATERS: No, I'm actually asking about the perception. You were perceived as a prominent --
MURDAUGH: I tried to be.
WATERS: -- powerful lawyer.
MURDAUGH: How I was perceived --
WATERS: You're president of the trial lawyer.
MURDAUGH: I sure tried to be.
WATERS: Lived a life of possessing authority?
MURDAUGH: Possessing authority?
WATERS: Yes. We saw the badges. You just admitted of your prominence in the legal community.
MURDAUGH: I don't think that I lived a life of possessing authority. I never saw myself as that way.
WATERS: You don't think you lived a life of privilege?
MURDAUGH: I think I was very privileged.
WATERS: But as we moved to June of 2021, you were suffering from a drug addiction?
MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
WATERS: Your father was terminally ill?
MURDAUGH: When? I mean --
WATERS: As we moved to June of 2021?
MURDAUGH: No, sir. He --
WATERS: He was very ill.
MURDAUGH: He was very ill.
WATERS: And you were coming to a point of financial crisis?
MURDAUGH: I was having financial issues like I'd had many times in the past.
WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, are you a family annihilator?
MURDAUGH: A family annihilator? You mean like, did I shoot my wife and my son?
WATERS: Yes.
MURDAUGH: No. I would never hurt Maggie Murdaugh. I would never hurt Paul Murdaugh, under any circumstances.
WATERS: You say that.
MURDAUGH: Excuse me?
WATERS: You say that you lied to Maggie, didn't you?
MURDAUGH: I did lie to Maggie.
WATERS: You lied to Paul?
MURDAUGH: Sometimes.
WATERS: You lied to your father?
MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did at some point.
WATERS: Did you tell him all the stuff you had been up to over the years before he died?
MURDAUGH: No, I didn't tell him.
WATERS: Did you lie to your brothers?
MURDAUGH: About financial things?
WATERS: Yes.
MURDAUGH: I would have lied to Randy at some point, I'm sure. W WATERS: Did you lie to him about the last time you saw your wife and son alive?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Did you lie to their wives?
MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did.
WATERS: Did July to Marian Proctor?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Did you lie to Bart Proctor?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Did you lie to the Branstetters? MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Did you lie to your best friend Chris Wilson?
MURDAUGH: Probably.
WATERS: Did you lie to your other friend Barrett Boulware when you took his money?
MURDAUGH: No, sir.
WATERS: No.
MURDAUGH: Not -- I didn't lie I told you. I didn't lie directly to him. I lied to him by a mission, like we talked about him and he was -- I didn't talk to him. I didn't see him at that time.
WATERS: Did you lie to your law partners?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Did you lie to him about the kennels?
MURDAUGH: Some of them.
WATERS: Did you like to Mark Ball?
MURDAUGH: Yes. Based on what Mark said, I believe I did.
WATERS: Did you lie Ronnie Crosby?
MURDAUGH: According to what he said, I believe I did.
WATERS: Did you lie to Johnny Parker?
MURDAUGH: I don't believe I ever discussed that with Johnny.
WATERS: Did you lie to him about the finances when you borrowed that money in July of 2021?
MURDAUGH: I don't know if I lied to him about -- I don't -- Johnny. I don't think Johnny asked me. I don't think I had to lie to Johnny about that, so I don't know.
WATERS: Did you lie -- well, you didn't certainly didn't disclose to him the truth when you borrowed that $250,000, did you?
MURDAUGH: I did not not tell him what I was going to use it for.
[15:40:01]
WATERS: I mean, didn't we have say before that not telling the whole truth is the same as telling the lie?
MURDAUGH: Sure it is.
WATERS: You don't think that's a lie, though?
MURDAUGH: I don't. I'm just saying -- Mr. Waters, I'm not taking issue with that, but I don't even know that Johnny and I -- I mean, Johnny had loaned me money numerous times. It wasn't any long sit down discussion where Johnny wanted to know exactly what I was doing with it.
That conversation would have been, I needed it. Johnny was always willing to help me, and that would have been the conversation. So on that specific event, did I lie to him? I don't know.
WATERS: He ended up being out $477,000, didn't he?
MURDAUGH: He ended up being out a lot of money.
WATERS: Thank you for your qualifications as to that. Did you lie to Lee Cope?
MURDAUGH: I don't know. I don't know if Lee Cope was around when I said that or not.
WATERS: Did you lie to Danny Henderson?
MURDAUGH: I did lie to Danny.
WATERS: Did you lie to Jeanne Seckinger?
MURDAUGH: I don't -- about finances, yes, I did.
WATERS: You didn't ever talk to her about the kennels?
MURDAUGH: No, I wouldn't think so.
WATERS: Did you lie to Annette Griswold?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Did you lie to Christie Gerald, your other secretary for paralegal.
MURDAUGH: I don't believe she and I discussed. I would have at some point, I'm sure.
WATERS: Did you lie to Michael Gunn?
MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did at some point, but, I mean, Michael wasn't involved in any of this, so I don't know that any of this ever came up with Michael.
WATERS: Did you lie to your clients? Did you lie to Pamela Pinckney?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: Natasha Thomas?
MURDAUGH: I don't know that I dealt with Natasha, but I certainly lied about that.
WATERS: Hakeem Pinckney?
MURDAUGH: Again, I don't know that I talked to Hakeem, but I certainly lied about that.
WATERS: Arthur Badger?
MURDAUGH: I did.
WATERS: The Plyler girls?
MURDAUGH: That's -- I'm not sure that I talked specifically to them, but I lied about that.
WATERS: Deon Martin?
MURDAUGH: I lied to Deon.
WATERS: Johnny Bush?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Manuel Cristiani?
MURDAUGH: I didn't have any conversations with him, but I certainly lied about it.
WATERS: Jamie Risharp (ph)?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Randy Drawdy?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Jordan Jinks?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Marie Duncan?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Audrey Onahay (ph)?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Angel Gary?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Christopher Anderson?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Elisa Mallory?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Thomas Moore?
MURDAUGH: No.
WATERS: You never lied to him? You just took his money. He never had to actually lie to his face, is what you're saying?
MURDAUGH: He and I never had a conversation, but I did take that money.
WATERS: Did July of Tony Satterfield just a couple of months before June 7? We saw the text. You want me to get it out?
MURDAUGH: Just remind me. There's been a lot. Just remind me what it was.
WATERS: I'll show you what's been marked as 463.
MURDAUGH: And I don't remember the exact date, so.
WATERS: That was in April of 2021. Is that right?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Another quick break and we'll return to cross examination in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:46:14]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: OK, we're going to take you back to the Walterboro, South Carolina courtroom.
WATERS: Lied to everyone about the side of the road? The people that came to stop to help, and the ambulance, folks, and the 911, and Ryan Kelly and the composite sketch artists and all them, correct?
MURDAUGH: I lie to a lot of people about that.
WATERS: You know why people lie, Mr. Murdaugh? Because they know they've done something wrong.
MURDAUGH: For the most time I do.
WATERS: And you've been able to lie quickly and easily and convincingly if you think it'll save your skin for well over a decade. Isn't that true?
MURDAUGH: I have lied well over a decade.
WATERS: And you want this jury to believe a story manufactured to fit the evidence that you brought forth just yesterday after hearing this trial is worth the testimony?
MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not correct.
WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, we went through this for a while, but you remember at the beginning of your testimony, I asked you whether or not you agreed that trying to explain your presence on the kennel video was the most important part of your testimony before this jury. You remember that? And you said, oh, not the most important. And I said, was it the least important? You recall that from yesterday?
MURDAUGH: I recall you asking those questions, yes, sir.
WATERS: And you agree it's important, don't you?
MURDAUGH: I agree that as an important component, but I think there's a lot of important components.
WATERS: And you testified yesterday during cross yesterday and cross today, it's kind of evolved on the fact of the factors that led you to decide to lie at some point during that interview with David Owen, correct?
MURDAUGH: I disagree with that. I don't think those factors have evolved. I mean, you've asked some more specific questions, but those factors are still the same factors. You may have asked questions and gained a little more detail, but those factors haven't changed.
WATERS: But it was the dope paranoia. It was the fact that the deputy took your GSR. It was the fact that your law partners and Greg Alexander and the sheriff were telling you you needed to have a lawyer before you talk to police. It was a factor that you got in the car with Dave Owen and thought he was somebody else from some case 10 years ago. Correct?
MURDAUGH: That believing David Owens was the person involved in the case that I talked about was one of the factors that caused me to distrust SLED.
WATERS: All right, and then also you said that they started asking you about, in that first interview, about your relationship with Maggie and Paul, and that's one thing you mentioned as well. Correct?
MURDAUGH: And that was certainly something that contributed to me having paranoid thinking.
(OFF-MIC)
[15:51:33]
WATERS: Are we good?
(OFF-MIC)
WATERS: (INAUDIBLE) the Daniel Greene body cam video 2026?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(OFF-MIC) MURDAUGH: All right. The police are here now. The police are here now. That's it bro.
SGT. DANIEL GREENE, COLLETON COUNTY: OK. When was the last time you were here with them or talked to them or anything like that?
MURDAUGH: It was earlier tonight. I don't know the exact time, but --
GREENE: OK.
MURDAUGH: -- I left -- I was probably gone an hour and a half for my mom's, and I saw them about 45 minutes before that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
WATERS: That was Sergeant Greene, correct?
MURDAUGH: Yes, that was Sergeant Greene.
WATERS: And at that point in time, SLED was not there. No one had gotten GSR from you. Your law partners, or Sheriff Hill were not there?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: No one had asked you about your relationships. David Owen was not there.
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: But you still told the same lie. And all those reasons that you just gave this jury about the most important part of your testimony was a lie, too. Isn't that true, Mr. Murdaugh?
MURDAUGH: I disagree with that.
WATERS: Nothing further.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, to take a break now. Please do not discuss the case.
GOLODRYGA: And we have just been listening to what appears to be the prosecution wrapping in its cross examination of Alex Murdaugh and his murder trial.
Let's bring back CNN's Dianne Gallagher outside the courthouse in South Carolina. Still with us, CNN's Jean Casarez and CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. Also with us. Defense Attorney Misty Marris. Misty, to you firs, since you're new to this conversation with us on this program, talk about what you heard from the prosecution specifically at the end, wrapping it up by once again reiterating just about to everybody in Murdaugh's life he had lied to.
MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, really, really strong ending by the prosecution, especially since Murdaugh has qualified that lie, that very critical lie of not being down by the kennels, a calculated lie that he repeated over and over and over again, and he's offered several excuses why he came up with that lie.
[15:55:08]
The prosecutor prosecutor went through each and every reason that he went through in his testimony and then brought that hammer down by saying, well, in this conversation, none of that other stuff had even happened yet. So you decided to lie from come that moment.
Look, in this case, now that Murdaugh has come clean, you know, if you believe his story, and said, I was down by the kennels, but I left shortly thereafter, and he's asking the jury to believe him now, despite the fact he's repeatedly lied and he's boxed himself in to a very, very short timeline.
I think the prosecutor did a really good idea of putting him to task to specify that timeline and also showing, look, this guy's given every excuse, but he continues to lie. And ladies and gentlemen of the jury, he's lying to you today.
BLACKWELL: Jean, to you, what stood out to you in this last segment we've heard from Creighton Waters in this cross examination?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was powerful. And I think we now fully understand why he's focused so much on these financial crimes, because he's trying to show, just as Misty said, that you've lied to everyone in your life and professionally for decades, and you then lied that you were not down at the kennels, so the jury should not believe you.
And the net result is you were down there exactly when the murders happened, and so you're guilty. And that's what he's trying to leave the jury with, because if you're down there, there's nobody else down there. And that's when the iPhones locked for the very last time. They were murdered right at that time. And that's what his focus is.
GOLODRYGA: All right, our coverage will continue. I want to thank our guests for joining us this hour. The Lead with Jake Tapper starts right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right. Welcome to "THE LEAD", everyone.
