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Tornadoes Across Oklahoma and Kansas; New Drone Attacks in Ukraine; U.S. Warns China Against Helping Russia; Energy Department Says Chinese Lab Leak Likely Caused the Pandemic; EPA Oversight of Ohio Train Derailment Cleanup; Defense Calls New Witnesses in Murdaugh Trial. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 27, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

Some wild weather. Right now, homes and businesses damaged, debris scattered across cities and towns. This after severe storms ripped across Oklahoma and parts of the central U.S. This morning, more than 50,000 without power in the region. At least nine tornadoes touching down in Oklahoma and Kansas. Wind gusts equivalent to a category three hurricane, about 120 miles an hour battering Texas. Ahead, the latest on the storm's and what's to come.

Plus, at least two people are dead, three others wounded after a drone attack in Ukraine. This as the U.S. is now warning that China will face penalties if Beijing provides Russia with drones and ammunition, as U.S. intelligence indicates, to aid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

We do begin this hour with the latest on those severe storms and tornadoes. CNN's senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera, he's in Norman, Oklahoma. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers standing by with the latest forecast.

We do want to begin with you, Ed.

You know, some pictures there, just alarming. Tell us what you're seeing on the ground.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a rough night for the residents of Oklahoma, who watched this fast-moving storm line blow through and rip across the state. Twelve people injured. The good news is, no deaths being reported in the various storms that were dropping out of the sky throughout much of the night.

We are in Norman, Oklahoma. This is where one of the confirmed tornadoes touched down. The sun is out. Residents are now starting to come out of their homes, or come back into the neighborhood, to begin the cleanup process and to really kind of assess the magnitude of the damage here.

And you can see just how ferocious the winds and the debris flying through the air, smashing car windows. This piece of plywood stuck in the tree is -- was ripped off of a home somewhere around here. And it is just stunning to see the site for -- in many of these homes. There's cars flipped over a few blocks away from where we were. We were just at one house a little while ago that had the entire back part of the house ripped off. The refrigerator was in the backyard. Just, you know, stunning sights. And this was a neighborhood that took a direct hit from this tornado that touched down here in the Norman, Oklahoma, area, just south of the Oklahoma City area.

But this was a storm line, Jim, as you mentioned, that really started kind of in the Texas panhandle and just blew through the state last night. It was moving incredibly quickly. You talk about the wind. There was 114-mile-per-hour wind gusts measured in the Texas panhandle town of Memphis, Texas. And all of that system moving through here. So, it was a treacherous, dangerous night for many people here as they are beginning the cleanup process.

And, of course, this is a rare outbreak of tornadoes in February. This is the kind of scene and site that people here in Oklahoma are used to seeing in late April, in May, perhaps into early June. But this is just kind of the way things are right now when it comes to these weather patterns, the intensity and the ferociousness of the storm, I think, is still very staggering for many residents here to kind of comprehend.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, so much rebuilding to do there. Thanks so much, Ed.

Chad, it wasn't just Oklahoma. Officials calling this a derecho (ph). I wonder, is this normal, this kind of year? What's behind it?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: No, it's not normal for February. But, you know, what I mean, neither is it normal for all of the cherry blossoms to be blooming in Washington, D.C., either. I mean, I think we're just moving spring a little bit farther and farther into the end of winter as we begin to warm the climate. That's just -- we're just going to see this. We're going to see the progression of the severe weather start from the south earlier in the year, move to the north earlier in the year.

We've had about nine tornadoes. I think some of them may be the same tornado reported in two different towns. But now this system has moved past St. Louis, into Indiana and also into Ohio for today. Not the same type of ferociousness we had yesterday.

Jim, those storms were moving at 85 miles per hour. Not the wind generated, the storm itself, many of them, moving 85 miles per hour from the southwest to the northeast, giving those residents only minutes worth of warning. Even though the Weather Service was putting these warnings out, mile after mile ahead of the storm, the storms were just moving so very, very quickly yesterday.

There's your threat of severe weather. Maybe a little bit of a tornado threat into parts of Ohio, especially around Columbus. Central Ohio. The Scioto River Valley. [09:05:01]

But then the snow comes in for New York City. Yes, I said snow. And even for Boston, it could be two to four inches in those cities by morning, making a slow commute certainly for the people there. Part of the cold on the one side, the warm on the other. They don't like to mix. You shake the oil and vinegar dressing together. Eventually the oil is going to go to the top, the vinegar goes to the bottom. Same idea with warm and cold, they don't like to mix.

SCIUTTO: Thanks for connecting the dots there. I think folks often misunderstand what's going on here.

Chad Myers, in the Weather Center. We had Ed Lavandera there in Oklahoma. Thanks so much.

This morning, at least two Ukrainian rescue workers, they've been killed amid a wave of new Russian drone attacks. They've proven particularly deadly there. Ukrainian forces are claiming to have shot down several of those drones, but many do get through and cause a lot of destruction on the ground.

CNN's senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt, he's in Serhilvka, Ukraine.

Alex, I wonder if you can describe to folks at home what you're seeing there.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, at least 14 drones overnight targeting these two different cities, Kleminitski (ph) in the southwestern part of the country, Jim (INAUDIBLE) and there were those two first responders who were killed responding to an earlier drone strike. And at least three people (INAUDIBLE).

This speaks to how these drones were sent in, in waves. At least nine out of the 11 that were sent in (INAUDIBLE) shot down. Those air raid sirens over Kyiv blaring for some five and a half hours, which really speaks to that concern that we saw last week about President Biden's visit to the Capitol to meet with President Zelenskyy.

We are at a pivotal point in this war. There's a lot of talk about the kind of weaponry. There's (INAUDIBLE) saying firmly that they are sending what they believe Ukraine needs for this fight right now. Not necessarily everything that Ukraine wants. (INAUDIBLE) those F-16s, which President Biden has said firmly will not be coming to Ukraine anytime soon.

But over the course of (INAUDIBLE) President Biden here, two different U.S. aid packages totaling around $2.5 billion with what the U.S. believes that Ukraine needs for this fight right now. That is primarily going to be artillery ammunition, more artillery pieces (INAUDIBLE) the famous HIMARS (INAUDIBLE) javelins to shoot tanks. But also drones for the Ukrainians themselves and anti-drone systems, which come (INAUDIBLE) the Russians using these Iranian-made Shahed kamikaze drones to fire (INAUDIBLE) country. A major sticking point, Jim, are those long-range missiles known as ATACMS, which (INAUDIBLE) need to hit Russian targets farther away. For now, the U.S. resisting providing those, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, as a whole wave of new weapons do go in, including those tanks.

Alex Marquardt, thanks so much.

This morning, the Kremlin is declining to comment on CNN's reporting China is considering giving Russia lethal aid for its war against Ukraine. This a U.S. intelligence assessment. China is also disputing the claim, but sources tell us that that intelligence suggests otherwise. U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan issued this warning to China over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Beijing will have to make its own decisions about how it proceeds, whether it provides military assistance. But if it goes down that road, it will come at real cost to China. And I think China's leaders are weighing that as they make their decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us now, CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Good to have you on, sir.

You were an intelligence analyst during your time in the military. I wonder, when you look at this consideration by China, according to the U.S. assessment, what do you believe China's aim is here? Does it see an opportunity to bog down the U.S. and its allies in this war?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Jim, good morning.

I think that's exactly what they're trying to do here. We have to keep in mind that China and Russia both are looking at this in a very different way, through a very different lens than we are. And what that really means is that they want to create a different world order than what currently exists. So, what the China and the Russians both are looking at is, they want a world order in which they are the more dominant players. And when you move that into Ukraine, this is the theater that this conflict has gotten hot in, and you see that, you know, in the area around Bakhmut and Wilidar (ph) and all these other areas, there is a movement to really bring the mass of the Russian forces forward. And all the offensive operations that they're doing could really benefit from a Chinese resupply effort. And if that happens, that would be a considerable escalation. It would also provide the Russians with a lot more firepower than they currently enjoy.

SCIUTTO: So that's the Russian offensive as it stands.

[09:10:01]

The U.S. view is that they don't quite have what is necessary yet to make significant moves.

We've heard of a Ukrainian counteroffensive coming. Any sense of timing? And is your sense that they have the weapons, particularly with these tanks going in that they need to make progress?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So this -- it's really good to hear from the Ukrainian point of view that the Leopard tanks are coming into the country. They're starting to move in from Poland and the Swedes have indicated that they're going to be providing some as well in short order. So, that means that the training has progressed quite a bit. It also means that on the battlefield the Ukrainians will have some tanks, but they won't be nearly the 300 to 500 that the Ukrainians have actually asked for. That will come eventually. But it's not going to be there in time for a major offensive to benefit from them, a major counteroffensive from the Ukrainian side. So that's -- it's really a dueling clock situation. The Russians have one set of clocks, the Ukrainians have another. And the Russian one is dominating at the moment.

SCIUTTO: For the three years since we've been in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic, there's been a debate, it seems, within U.S. intelligence agencies as to the actual origin of this, whether it emerged naturally or is the result of a leak from a Chinese lab.

You now have the Department of Energy seeming to look at some new intelligence to say, well, this is a lab leak here. Granted, with low confidence, but they've changed their opinion. There's debate. The FBI's been there for some time. Other agencies go the other way.

What do you think is happening within the U.S. intelligence community on this key question here? I mean, is there new, hard evidence from your point of view, or is this a continuing debate?

LEIGHTON: There might not be any more hard evidence. There are certain circumstantial things that we've known about for some time, Jim, when it comes to the Wuhan situation where the possibility exists that the Covid virus was actually the result of an accident in a lab. There is clear --

SCIUTTO: Oh, froze up there. Oh, there he is. He's back. Sorry - sorry -

LEIGHTON: Indicates that there are -

SCIUTTO: We lost you for a moment there. Just maybe you can complete that thought on -

LEIGHTON: Can you hear me now, Jim?

SCIUTTO: I can hear you now.

LEIGHTON: Yes, so the basic idea is that I think the -- there's still debate within the intelligence community. There is no hard evidence that I know of that indicates that it goes one way or the other. But there is circumstantial evidence indicating that there may have been something going on in the lab that the Chinese want to keep secret. So that may be the basis in part for the department of energy report.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. We'll continue to follow.

Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much.

Well, in about 20 minutes, Alex Murdaugh, he's going to be back in court after two days of heated testimony in his ongoing double murder trial. Did that testimony help or hurt him? Details on how soon the case could go to a jury. That's coming up.

And later, First Lady Jill Biden sits down with CNN for an exclusive interview. What she says about her thoughts on her husband running again in 2024.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:29]

SCIUTTO: New this morning, China says it is, quote, highly unlikely that a leak from one of its labs started the Covid-19 pandemic. This after a U.S. Energy Department report said it's found the virus may very well have accidentally escaped from a lab in Wuhan. That assessment adding to a debate in this country and globally as to exactly how and where the virus originated.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand has been following the latest.

Natasha, we should note, this is a low-confidence intelligence assessment, but it did change at the DOE. They cited new intelligence. Do we know why their assessment changed?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: We don't, Jim. All we know is that they appear to have gathered some new intelligence that made them shift their opinion from undecided to now believing that the most likely explanation for how this pandemic began was that it originated in that lab in Wuhan.

Now, we should note, of course, as you did, that this is a low- confidence assessment, which means that even though they did conclude that this is perhaps the most likely explanation, they cannot say that with utter certainty because the intelligence that they gathered, perhaps, is too fragmented, the sources are not solid enough, and essentially they just cannot come to a more definitive conclusion based on the evidence that they have gathered. However, the -- of all the theories that they have examined, they believe that this is the most compelling one.

Now, that intelligence, of course, was shared with the entire intelligence community and it did not cause other agencies to change their assessments. Notably, of course, the CIA still has not come to a conclusion one way or the other about how this virus originated.

But, you know, ultimately, the U.S. intelligence community has said before that it's going to be very difficult to come to a definitive conclusion about how this pandemic started without that robust cooperation from Beijing, which they have not gotten to date. It has been very difficult, as we know, for scientists and for the international community to kind of gain access to that original site in Wuhan where it is believed that the pandemic did begin. And according to a 2021 intelligence report, the data that the U.S. has been studying from afar just likely is not going to be sufficient to come to a definitive conclusion about the origins of this pandemic, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and just difficult to imagine the circumstances where China would cooperate with the U.S. on this.

Natasha Bertrand, in D.C., thanks so much.

Well, the EPA is stepping up its oversight of the cleanup of the toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. Shipments of contaminated materials will begin again today. Until Friday, Norfolk Southern was solely responsible for cleanup. The EPA stopped shipments so it could review the company's plans after officials in Texas and Michigan complained they got no warning that waste from that accident could be heading to their states.

[09:20:11]

CNN's senior national correspondent Miguel Marquez joins us.

This is part of the aftermath of this, right? Now you have the waste from the spill. Where does it go? Some of it's already being processed in Michigan and Texas. But, where's the rest of the stuff going to go? Do they have a plant?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the stuff that is in Michigan and Texas will stay there. The rest of this, and we're talking about millions of gallons of water and thousands of cubic yards of soil that needs to be removed from that area, will go to two different locations that the EPA has signed off on, that is accustomed to dealing with these sort of chemicals and disposing of them in Ohio, two different towns in Ohio. One is just south of there. East Liverpool is just south of East Palestine.

But look, it's all indicative of how things that are happening in East Palestine are just having this outsized effect. Whether it's high school sports teams canceling games in the East Palestine area, "The Wall Street Journal" reporting this weekend that retailers are -- have stopped selling water that is bottled, about 30 miles away from East Palestine. And then you have this situation in Texas and Michigan, places that normally handle these sorts of situations and these sorts of chemicals, being -- the government there being upset that they didn't have word that this stuff was coming.

It is a mess in East Palestine, but officials there from the EPA, to the state government, to the county government, to the city, all of them now working seemingly in conjunction to try to figure out how to clean this thing up. Drilling wells around the area that was most contaminated to figure out if - if and when and how that plume of toxic materials is seeping into the ground water and moving. As they have all said, this is going to not takes weeks, not going to

take months, it will be years of sort of monitoring this, all of this, as this toxic mess from a derailment seeps into our toxic politics, as well. The House now saying that they are going to hold hearings about the Biden administration and their lack of response or poor response to this. And the Senate now saying that they want to call Norfolk Southern, the CEO of Norfolk Southern to the Senate to explain himself. The Senate, obviously, trying to focus on Norfolk Southern's role and how all of this played out.

So, I think we're going to hear many, many weeks and months of this toxic derailment to come.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, it would be nice if the investigation was actually about what happened, how this happened, how to prevent it, but, sounds like politics will rule the day.

MARQUEZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Miguel Marquez, thanks so much.

MARQUEZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Any moment now jurors return to a South Carolina courtroom to hear new defense witnesses in the Murdaugh murder trial after two days of testimony from the accused himself, Alex Murdaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: Mr. Murdaugh, are you a family annihilator?

ALEX MURDAUGH, ACCUSED OF MURDERING WIFE AND YOUNGEST SON: A family annihilator? You mean, like, did I shoot my wife and my son?

WATERS: Yes.

MURDAUGH: No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:33]

SCIUTTO: Minutes from now, the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial resumes in South Carolina with the defense expected to call four new witnesses to the stand today. All this after Murdaugh himself, who is accused of killing his wife and son, wrapped up six more hours of testimony on Friday.

Randi Kaye is live outside the courthouse in Walterboro.

Randi, I wonder what the focus of these new witnesses is likely to be today.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I bet the jury is probably wondering that as well. We are expecting four more witnesses. I understand there will be a pathologist coming to speak on the stand today, as well as a crime scene investigator for the defense. So, the jury will get to hear all of that.

But, of course, they're still processing, Jim, quite a bit of Alex Murdaugh's testimony. For the first time after more than 20 months, he finally came clean and admitted that he was at the kennels where the murders took place around the time of the murders back on June 7, 2021. He said he was down there for just a couple of minutes. He told the prosecutor he drove the golf cart down there, was down there at 8:47 p.m. -- left there at 8:47 p.m., and then drove up back to the house, was at the house around 8:49 p.m.

He said that he went down for a nap for a short bit after that, but his phone, Jim, started showing activity again at 9:02 p.m. And a lot of activity, 283 steps, which had the prosecutor very curious. But it wasn't just all those steps, it was a flurry of phone calls.

Here's the exchange from Friday about that in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: Finally having your phone in your hand, moving around and making all these phone calls to manufacture an alibi. Is that not true?

ALEX MURDAUGH, ACCUSED OF MURDERING WIFE AND YOUNGEST SON: That's absolutely incorrect.

It is an absolute fact that I am not manufacturing an alibi, as you say.

WATERS: How do you remember so much detail about everything else, but you don't remember what you were specifically doing to generate 283 steps while you're making these -- all these phone calls in the same four-minute period.

MURDAUGH: I never manufactured any alibi, in any way, shape, or form, because I did not and would not hurt my wife and my child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And that timeline there, Jim, is so key because prosecutors believe that Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were killed at 8:49 p.m. So that fits right into that timeline. He got to the house, he says, at 8:49 p.m. And all those phone calls, as you saw there, the prosecutor believes were really set up to serve as an alibi.

[09:30:04]

There was really the one other moment that struck me on Friday.