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Sarah Ford Is Interviewed About The Murdaugh Trial; Jill Biden On Re-Election; Economic Outlook Grows Cloudy; Federal Judge May Rule On Medication Abortion Case; Newspapers Pull Comic Strip After Racist Rant; 2023 SAG Awards. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 27, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you saw there, the prosecutor believes were really set up to serve as an alibi.

There was really the one other moment that struck me on Friday, when the prosecutor, Jim, asked Alex Murdaugh if when he was at the kennels, were the dogs barking? Were they showing any strange behavior, as if maybe somebody was there that they didn't know. A strange smell, perhaps.

And Alex Murdaugh told the prosecutor there was nobody else around that they didn't know. No one else around for them to sense. Those are direct quotes. So, that was really interesting because, in a way, depending on what the jury believes, he could have been telling the prosecutor that there was nobody else with my family at the time of the murders except me.

Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Randi Kaye, outside the courthouse, thank you.

Let's speak now with former prosecutor, current director of the South Carolina Victim's Assistance Network, Sarah Ford.

Good to have you on this morning.

SARAH FORD, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, we're coming to the end of this. The prosecutor's case, largely circumstantial. There's no witnesses. There's no weapon. Something that they conceded in their opening arguments, making the case, in effect, that circumstantial evidence is not a problem, it's as good as direct evidence. I wonder, has the prosecution, in your view, overcome that hurdle in its case so far?

FORD: I think the prosecution has. I think it's been difficult, and I think that, you know, most of our opinions have changed as we've gone along. And it's a bit of a roller coaster, seeing a case presented, you know, with the state and now hearing from the defense. But I think that overall the state has presented enough evidence for the jury to consider.

And I think that it will be difficult for them to exclude those things. Reasonable doubt is a difficult hurdle to reach, but I think with the evidence that was presented, especially with Alex testifying on Friday, really solidifying a lot of what the state has presented, inadvertently, I think it will be a difficult hurdle for them to ignore.

SCIUTTO: The defense clearly thought it was to their advantage, as is Murdaugh, to his advantage, to testify. And there has been some criticism of how the prosecutors handled that. Some talk that Murdaugh being a lawyer was able to parry some of their questions successfully. I wonder, do you agree with any of that?

FORD: You know, I think that Creighton Waters did a great job with what he was given. You know, Alex Murdaugh was always going to get up there and do what Alex Murdaugh does. I think that watching him testify, you could - you could clearly see why he was so effective at stealing from his clients and lying to people for so many years.

And I think Creighton Waters adjusted to that and let him talk. And, you know, I've always said, you know, went someone's doing your job for you, you let them talk. And that's what Creighton Waters did. And I think, overall, it was very effective.

SCIUTTO: The lying is, in effect, part of the prosecution's case here because, you know, they're arguing, you know, he's been a liar and he lied to police about where he was on the night of the murders, and there must be a reason for that. Murdaugh was making the case that, well, it's because he's an addict, also that, as a result of that, he had paranoid thoughts. Was that an effective response to that prosecution argument?

FORD: I don't know that he had any option, Jim. You know, he and his lawyers have been peddling that - that theory for a long time now and I think he had to really go with that. You know, I don't know how effective that's going to be. You know, the opioid crisis effects so many people directly and indirectly in our country.

And I think it will be hard to imagine for a lot of people that what he described is something that we can understand as someone who has been addicted to opioids 20-plus years at that level, and being the type of lawyer that he is and was.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, quite a case.

Sarah Ford, thanks so much for helping us out.

Still ahead, a CNN exclusive with the first lady. What she has to say about the Biden family's decision on 2024 and why she is now, quote, all for another White House run. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:11] SCIUTTO: New this morning, in an exclusive CNN interview, First Lady Jill Biden says she now supports President Biden making another run for the White House in 2024. The latest indication Biden is on the verge of announcing a re-election bid.

CNN's Arlette Saenz has more.

Arlette, you sat down with the first lady over the weekend. And it's interesting, because there had been some talk inside the White House that Jill was at least on the fence about this in recent months. Now no longer. What else did she say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, Jill Biden, of course, is such a big, important part of President Biden's life and his decision-making process. And we had the chance to talk to her about that re-election bid. And she ultimately said it is a decision that is up to the president himself, but noted that, in her mind, the decision essentially has been made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Your husband was asked in an interview if he was running. And he joked that he had to call you to find out.

JILL BIDEN, FIRST LADY: Was this recently?

SAENZ: It was recent.

BIDEN: Oh. I must have missed it.

SAENZ: So we're going to the source.

Where do things stand? When's an announcement coming?

BIDEN: Well, he said he intends to run. So, nothing's been planned yet. I think, you know, he's been so busy with being in Ukraine, handling some of the crises at home. So, I think, you know, he's not -- he's putting that first. He's putting America's business before he's put his own.

SAENZ: But has the decision been made amongst the family that he's going to run?

BIDEN: Well, it's Joe's - really it's Joe's decision. And we support whatever he wants to do. If he's in, we're there. If he wants to do something else, we're there too.

SAENZ: Is there any chance at this point that he's not going to run?

[09:40:02]

BIDEN: Not in my book.

SAENZ: You're all for it?

BIDEN: I'm all for it. Of course. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So, the first lady essentially saying there that she believes that ultimately he will decide to run for re-election. Of course, Biden is well known for engaging in these extended deliberations when it comes to major political decisions. We've seen these drawn-out processes in the past. And so everyone is looking for each of these signs, these signals, whether he is moving closer to the run. And the first lady indicating that she is all for it.

Now, we sat down over the course of the past few days multiple times with the first lady as she traveled through Africa, visiting Namibia and Kenya, really trying to highlight a few issues, including women's empowerment, the importance of young people in democracy, as well as trying to shine a spotlight on the drought that's been impacting the horn of Africa.

She traveled yesterday to a rural village that's been impacted by this drought. All of these things we will be covered and take you along the way for when we air this interview a little bit later in the week.

SCIUTTO: Will be a fascinating look, for sure.

Arlette Saenz, thanks so much.

You can watch the rest of the wide-ranging interview with First Lady Jill Biden later this week. CNN primetime "Jill Biden: Abroad" airs this Thursday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, here on CNN.

A new poll this morning among economists suggesting the direction of the U.S. economy is, well, confusing. Jobs are surge, corporate layoffs in some industries in particular are mounting. Red-hot inflation has cooled a bit, but not nearly enough. Mortgage rates continue to inch higher. It's a lot of information, some of it conflicting.

CNN's Christine Romans here to make sense of it all.

I mean it really does seem that economists haven't quite figured out where this is all going.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, it's just a big riddle. And when you look at this NABE forecast, this poll of these business economists, you can see that they're all struggling to kind of come up with a consensus for what could happen here.

And here's a good example. I looked at their GDP forecast for Q4 to Q4 for this year. The range is so wide. There's either a recession -- that's a real recession, minus 1.3 percent, or a pretty, you know, fine, charitable 1.9 percent. You look out for next year, either a stall in the economy, barely positive growth, all the way up to a very strong 2.6 percent economy. So it just shows you sort of how all over the map these economists are.

For all of the reasons that you just mentioned, all of these different statistics, we have a strong, underlying economy. Eight interest rate hikes by the Fed meant to cool it, but inflation still too high here. So, there's a lot of kind of hand-wringing about where we're going and what happens next.

I think where you can find a consensus is nearly 60 percent of these respondents, these economists, say there's a 50/50 chance of a recession this year. So, you know, still worried about all of that medicine from the Fed and whether it will slow an underlying strong economy.

And one of the words that the NAB used is diffused. All of these estimates are very diffused. Meaning, there's just all over the place, because really smart people are looking at a lot of different factors.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROMANS: There's no playbook for this coming out of a Covid lockdown and the huge consumer demand we've seen, plus a war in Ukraine. There's just - there's no playbook for this, and I think you can see that reflected in these economist's forecasts.

SCIUTTO: I mean, that says it all. Most economists say there's a 50/50 chance. They don't know, right?

ROMANS: Yes. They don't know.

SCIUTTO: I mean it's hard - it's hard to figure it out.

Christine Romans, thanks so much.

ROMANS: Yes. The technical word is maybe. Maybe.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Goodness.

Well, still ahead, a popular comic strip pulled from hundreds of newspapers after its creator went on a racist rant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:47:40]

SCIUTTO: A single federal judge could rule as soon as today on a lawsuit seeking to block the use of abortion pills nationwide. The judge in question is a Trump appointee known for his anti-abortion views. His decision could halt more than half the legal abortions now being carried out across the country.

Our senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid joins me now.

I mean case, one judge, enormous national implications. I imagine the possibility of Supreme Court review at some point. Where does this stand now and where does it go?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, as you just noted, the majority of abortions in the United States are now medication abortions. And this is certainly the most significant abortion case since the Supreme Court overturned Roe last year. Now, here, a group of anti-abortion rights medical associations and

doctors has sued to block the FDA's decades-long approval of mifepristone, which is the first drug in the medication abortion process. Of course, the FDA does not want any sort of injunction.

They're saying that, look, this would have a dangerous precedent. And a group of Democratic attorneys general has also supported them, noting the impact that this would have on abortion access nationwide.

Specifically, the availability of this drug has been particularly critical in providing access to abortion in low income, underserved, and rural communities where procedural abortion may be unavailable. And eliminating access to this method, they say, will result in more abortions taking place later in pregnancy, further increasing costs and medical risks.

And we could get a decision, Jim, any day now.

SCIUTTO: So, tell us what we know about the judge in this case. I mean you often see instances here of what appears to be judge shopping for cases like this, but what do we know about this one and how he came to be the decider on this.

REID: Judge shopping, forum shopping, it is absolutely, you are right, something that folks on both sides of the aisle do, especially when they have a case that is political sensitive, particularly one on abortion. And Judge Kacsmaryk, he is a Trump appointee, conservatives have really targeted his small Amarillo division in the larger northern district of Texas because they believe that they will get favorable rulings there. Some people have even referred to this division as the graveyard as Biden policies.

Now, if you look at his record, the work he did before he ascended the bench, even public comments that members of his family have made, abortion rights advocates do have reason to be concerned about the ruling here.

[09:50:06]

And, look, even a temporary injunction, restricting access to this medication would have significant ramifications for abortion access nationwide.

SCIUTTO: Yes. After already some of the states, the ones in red there, have banned abortion by doctors.

Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Well, newspapers across the country are dropping the "Dilbert" comic strip after its creator went on a racist tirade. The cartoonist, Scott Adams, effectively encouraged, it seems, segregation in a post in his YouTube broadcast.

CNN's Polo Sandoval reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SCOTT ADAMS, CREATOR, "DILBERT": If, you know, nearly half of all blacks are not OK with white people, that's a hate group.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That was the comment that may have ended Scott Adams' newspaper career. The "Dilbert" creator referencing a poll from the conservative firm Rasmussen Reports that indicated 53 percent of black Americans agree with the statement, it's OK to be white, leaving the other 47 percent to say they disagree or aren't sure. The Anti-Defamation League has noted that that phrase has a long history in the white supremacist movement.

ADAMS: The best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people.

SANDOVAL: He continued to double down throughout his show. "The Washington Post," "Los Angeles Times" and "USA Today" among the hundreds of newspapers that denounced Adams and quickly pulled "Dilbert." "USA Today" newspaper's CEO Mike Reed.

MIKE REED, CEO, GANNETT/USA TODAY NETWORK: It was, frankly, an easy decision.

We found the remarks, you know, hateful, hurtful and they just crossed the line.

SANDOVAL: But not everyone agrees. Twitter CEO Elon Musk coming to Adams' defense, tweeting, the media is racist. Adams has since tweeted that he was only advising people to avoid hate, and suggested that the cancelation of his cartoon signals that free speech in America is under assault.

REED: We believe in free speech. We believe in creating a place for differing points of view. But there's a line that gets crossed where things become racism. And - and that's not an area we chose to traffic in or participate in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: And we should mention that CNN has reached out to the distributor of the "Dilbert," that strip, and we still have not heard back yet, Jim.

What's still yet to be determined is the extent of the financial impact this will be for Scott. And I also have to tell you, after watching hours of his latest stream in order to report for this, it's also unclear exactly just how worried he is. You see he loves attention, and he specifically says he does during his most recent stream. And he also said that he was fully aware that this would be received with some backlash.

But, nonetheless, he said those comments saying that he hoped that it would be, quote, useful provocation, but ultimately this is - he certainly is getting that attention, just perhaps more than he bargained for as newspapers, not just throughout the country, but around the world, are dropping "Dilbert."

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.

SANDOVAL: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, still ahead, if the SAG Awards made anything clear, you should watch "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once" before the Oscars. The big wins and major firsts at the show. How it set up some clear Oscar frontrunners as well. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the actor goes to "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was the cast of "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once" celebrating at the screen Actors Guild Awards after winning outstanding performance by a cast in a motion picture. That capped off a big history-making night for the movie and its actors. Michelle Yeoh became the first Asian woman to win best performance for a lead actress, and co-star Ke Huy Quan became the first Asian man to win the award for outstanding supporting actor.

Joining me now, CNN's Stephanie Elam.

I wonder, how do these wins set up "Everything, Everywhere" for the Oscars? Are they a good predictor in general of who wins there?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are a good predictor, Jim, especially since actors make up such a huge voting bloc of the academy. And so what you see at the Screen Actor Guild Awards, these are actors awarding their cohort. This is actors awarding actors for their performances.

And, yes, you should take something away from "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once," because it pretty much dominated last night winning for cast. You also have Jamie Lee Curtis winning for her supporting role.

And then you also have Ke Huy Quan, who talked a bit about the fact that he went from being a child actor - you will remember him from "Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom" in 1984. That was the first time we saw him. And then he was in "Goonies." And then he just said it got very difficult to find roles for him.

In fact, take a listen to what he said on the stage after he won.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KE HUY QUAN, SAG AWARD WINNER, BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR: I was told that if I were to win tonight, I would become the very first Asian actor to win in this category.

When I stepped away from acting, it was because there was so few opportunities.

So, thank you so much to all of you in this room and everyone who contributed to these changes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: So, you can feel the emotion. There is so much emotion. Such great speeches, actually, last night.

On the drama side, we also have Brendan Fraser, the lead actor, winning there for "The Whale," beating out Austin Butler for "Elvis," which a lot of people - we've seen him. He won the BAFTA. We've seen a lot of wins going to Butler. But this could mean something different happening at the Oscars. We'll have to keep our eyes there.

On the TV side, probably not a surprise to know that "White Lotus" took away the big prize there and Jennifer Coolidge winning for her role. And probably her best speech. Lots of emotion in her speech as well.

[10:00:00]

Folks love that show. The actors were on the red carpet and we had a lot of great commentary. And also "Abbott Elementary" won for the comedy side, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Wow. You get the best assignments.