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Texas Judge May Block Abortion Drug Nationally; Severe Storms; Confusion Grows Over COVID-19 Origins; China Considering Supplying Arms to Russia?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 27, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL BIDEN, FIRST LADY: And we support what ever he wants to do. If he's in, we're there. If he wants to do something else, we're there too.

QUESTION: Is there any chance at this point that he's not going to run?

BIDEN: Not in my book.

QUESTION: You're all for it?

BIDEN: I'm all for it, of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: We will see you tomorrow.

Abby Phillip picks up our coverage right now.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Abby Phillip in Washington. Thank you for joining us.

We begin this hour with another stare-down between the U.S. and China. And the outcome could have huge ramifications for Russia's war in Ukraine. U.S. officials are saying that Beijing is considering arming Vladimir Putin's forces with drones and ammunition.

And it's a move that the Biden administration thinks would prolong the war and up the death toll significantly. The CIA says there's no evidence that China has yet sent any of this lethal equipment. But the White House promises major consequences if it does.

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JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Beijing will have to make its own decisions about how it proceeds and whether it provides military assistance. But if it goes down that road, it will come at real cost to China.

And I think China's leaders are weighing that as they make their decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Now, this warning is coming just weeks after a suspected Chinese spy balloon traversed to the United States, leaving the relationship between these two superpowers in tatters.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is at the White House for us.

So, Phil, does the White House see this as their last, perhaps best chance to get Beijing to change course? Do they believe that all if this is imminent?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, they don't believe it it's imminent.

But it's very clear that the public posture the White House, the administration has taken over the course of the last several days is both very intentional and also underscores a palpable concern about both what they're seeing in the intelligence, new intelligence they have gotten over the course of the last several weeks, and about what this may mean going forward.

And I think part of the issues that you have heard from U.S. officials is the belief that the final decision has not been made yet. But, as they have laid out some of this intelligence to allies, as they have made public, some of their concerns at this point, it underscores the scale of the concern at stake here.

And they have also made very clear to the Chinese the stakes that are at play. Take a listen to how Jake Sullivan framed things.

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SULLIVAN: We're not just making direct threats. We're just laying out both the stakes and the consequences, how things would unfold. And we are doing that, clearly and specifically behind closed doors.

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MATTINGLY: You know, Abby, the subtext here is that there is intent behind what's happening right now, the hope that, while they have certainly picked up intelligence that shows that there are discussions and negotiations about potential price, what the potential weapons may be in terms of ammunition, in terms of drones, definitely some sense that a decision may be coming in the near term, that making this public, trying to almost brush back Chinese government leadership will have in effect, at least a desired effect, to hold them off, at least for the moment.

But there is no question, when you talk to U.S. officials, their real concern is how much this could prolong a conflict that is very much at a stalemate right now, but one in which they see Russia having severe issues when it comes to the amount the stockpiles that they have for ammunition, a gap that China could most certainly fill if they decided to go that route. PHILLIP: Yes, it really has echoes of how the administration dealt

with the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the first place, trying to very publicly warn China, even to the point of releasing some intelligence about all of this.

Phil Mattingly, thank you very much.

And there are even more complications for the Washington-Beijing relationship. A new classified report concludes that COVID-19 likely first leaked from a lab in China. That's the assessment of the Department of Energy. But -- and this is critical -- it is far from the final word on this question of how COVID-19 originated.

Sources say that it is designated, this assessment is designated as low confidence, which adds to a divide that is continuing within the intelligence community about the pandemic's origin.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is covering all of this.

So, Natasha, this report says that the lab leak is the likely originator of where this virus came from. But it's a low-confidence conclusion. And there have been other conclusions by other agencies within the government. Can you walk us through where we are on all of this?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Abby, so it definitely is a bit confusing, but what we're learning is that the FBI, as well as the Department of Energy, both assess that the most likely theory, the most likely explanation for how this virus originated is that it leaked from a laboratory in China.

Now, that is low confidence on the part of the Department of Energy. And, essentially, what that means is that they do not have enough intelligence or solid enough sourcing there or basically all of the pieces of the puzzle necessary to make a more confident judgment that that is in fact how the virus originated.

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Right now, essentially, what they're saying is that based on their information, they believe that it is simply the most likely scenario, in their estimation. However, we should note that the Department of Energy, of course, did share their intelligence with the rest of the intel community. They have all reviewed it. And the information that the Department of Energy has gleaned clearly did not change the minds of some of the bigger agencies, like the CIA, for example, which remains undecided on how this virus originated, whether it started, for example, in a wet market in Wuhan and came from an animal or whether it did come from a lab.

All of the intel agencies and the entire intel community has kind of coalesced around the theory, the two theories, really, that it either started in the lab or it emerged naturally. They're not necessarily discounting one way or another.

But, ultimately, this is still going some way into the division that exists within the I.C. about how this actually started. And, importantly, the intel community is not necessarily going to be able to ever conclusively discover what happened here because, they say, China has not been fully cooperative in this investigation.

And in order to get to the bottom of this truly, the international community is going to need access to those sites, access to the data. And that is not something that Beijing has proven willing to provide at this moment, Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, that still remains very much the central issue here. They are -- don't have access to any new information that could give them more clarity on this process.

Natasha, thanks for breaking all of that down.

And here now to discuss the broader issue of these rising tensions with China is CNN military analyst retired Major General Dana Pittard and "Washington Post" columnist Max Boot.

So, Max, I want to start with you on this question of China potentially providing lethal aid to Russia in this Ukraine war. Why would China do this?

MAX BOOT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: That's a great question.

I mean, if China does this, it's essentially throwing in its lot with Russia to a much greater extent than has been the case up until now. I am somewhat skeptical that they're actually going to do this. But, clearly, there is a debate occurring in Beijing.

And what you're seeing now is that U.S. officials are using their classified intelligence for public messaging purposes, much in the way they did early on in the war to try to dissuade Putin from invading. Now they are declassifying some of their information to try to dissuade Beijing from helping Russia, which would be, as they know, a real game-changer.

That would really allow Russia to make up for a lot of its equipment losses. But it would also be a very costly move for China, because, remember, China is the world's number one exporter. They are the largest trading nation in the world. Their economy is very vulnerable to pressure from the U.S. and Europe, which is why you see Xi Jinping trying to improve relations with the U.S. and Europe in recent months.

And this would be a major blow to those hopes. So I think there are good reasons for China to avoid doing more to enable the Russian war effort.

PHILLIP: Yes, and I want to talk a little bit more about that in a moment.

But, General Pittard, to you, this is a crucial moment in this conflict, where Russia -- both Russia and Ukraine are trying to make gains on a battlefield that has been almost stagnant in a lot of ways. What would drones and ammunition from China do on the battlefield?

MAJ. GEN. DANA PITTARD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good afternoon, Abby.

It is a crucial moment right now in this war that has really lasted since 2014. Now we're celebrating -- or not celebrating -- we're marking the one-year anniversary of Russia's attack on Ukraine specifically. But this war has been going on since 2014. So it's a war of attrition.

The difference that lethal aid from China would make with Russia, it would help Russia, as Russia right now has depleted its ammunition in many ways. It needs drones. It needs more help logistically. Russia could be losing this war, and they perceive themselves as losing this war. And that's why they need more assistance.

But something that Max just said, there's a reason behind China doing this. It's in China's best interest to prolong the war between Russia and Ukraine, which is supported by NATO and the U.S. Russia collapsing would not be in China's best interest. But a weakened Russia is in China's interest, a weakened Russia that is dependent upon China.

A war that is a war of attrition will deplete in some ways -- and we're already seeing that -- ammunition stocks in the West in the U.S. and NATO. And Russia -- China has no problems with that.

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But if Russia collapses and loses this war, it'll have an effect on China's ambitions and aggression against Taiwan in the future.

PHILLIP: Right. Yes, the prospect of Chinese aggression vis-a-vis Taiwan is really what a lot of people are looking at here.

But, Max, I want to come back to this question of what the U.S. is calling the real costs that could face China if they were to take this step. It strikes me -- I mean, you were saying China doesn't really want to be, for example, sanctioned. But it also strikes me that the West -- sanctioning China could have profound effects on the U.S. economy, on the European economy.

What do you think that those costs actually look like in practice? And does the U.S. and Europe really have the kind of backbone that it would take to levy those against China at this moment?

BOOT: Well, I think China has to be taken a little bit aback by the extent of the Western sanctions on Russia, which are still very much in place after a year, and which have inflicted some real damage on the Russian economy.

I mean, they haven't stopped Putin from his invasion. And they haven't led to an economic meltdown, but they are inflicting real costs on Russia. And I think China understands that they are much more engaged in the global economy than Russia is. They are much more reliant on export markets than Russia is.

So I don't think they necessarily want to test this and find out what happens, because, clearly, this would lead to a worsening of the tensions which already exist, and it would come with economic costs for both sides. But, remember, China right now is trying to recover from the COVID lockdown. They are trying -- their economy is in a very delicate state right now.

There's been unrest. There have been demonstrations against Xi Jinping's zero COVID policy. So I'm not sure that this is the moment when Xi is going to put all his chips on Russia and risk the economic backlash that could come from that.

PHILLIP: And, General, before we go here, there's the China-Russia relationship, but there's also the Russia-Iran relationship, which is growing, according to the CIA director, Burns.

How worried should the United States be about that? I mean, Iran is already providing Russia with drones. Could this relationship go even further?

PITTARD: Yes, I think they should be concerned, because Iran is certainly providing drones, some level of intelligence.

Iranian support can occur with other kinds of equipment, even ammunition, that can be used by Russian forces. So there should be a lot of concern with Iran helping Russia, along with China.

PHILLIP: All right, Max Boot and General Dana Pittard, both of you, thank you very much for joining us.

And still to come here: Severe weather is hitting the middle of the country, leaving a trail of destruction behind it. Oklahoma saw some of its worst weather. We will go there live.

Plus, we are waiting for a ruling from a federal judge in a lawsuit that seeks to restrict access to a key abortion medication. The case has huge implications, and we will talk about it next.

And later this hour, new details about the death of a Hong Kong social influencer.

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PHILLIP: Destructive storms are wreaking havoc across the Central Plains overnight, at least seven tornadoes hitting Oklahoma alone.

This is drone footage that really tells the story. These homes are torn up cars toppled. In parts of Texas, strong winds even whipped up a dust storm. And this tornado was caught on camera in Southern Illinois. Nearly 200,000 homes and businesses are still without power across several states right now.

And another system is right behind it. Nine Western states are under a winter weather alert.

So we have got full coverage with CNN's Ed Lavandera in Norman, Oklahoma, for us and meteorologist Derek Van Dam in the CNN Weather Center. Let's start with you, Ed.

I'm seeing those homes behind you, the roofs all torn up. What are you seeing on the ground there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think this really kind of speaks volumes for what many residents here in Norman are dealing with.

The fortunate part about this storm system, as you mentioned, seven confirmed tornadoes, many of those kind of spun out in rural farmland, not causing any real damage. But this one, in particular, in the middle -- in the middle of the darkness hit this residential neighborhood, shredding rooftops.

And you can see that's what many people around here are dealing with. This was yesterday, a long line of the fence line of all these -- the backyard of all these homes here, those fences destroyed. And you see crews working very quickly today in -- on many homes trying to patch up whatever holes they can before the next storm system rolls through here at whatever point that may be.

But that's kind of what people are trying to do is to at least get their homes covered up, closed up as quickly as they can so they can get back inside. The number of people without power, Abby, has been dropping rather dramatically throughout the day, so several thousand people still left without power, but that has been improving quite quickly throughout the day.

And the other really stunning thing is that there were no fatalities in this massive storm system that was causing hurricane-strength-level winds. In the Texas Panhandle, there were wind gusts recorded in the town of Memphis, Texas, of 114 miles per hour. That is stuff that we experience when we report and cover hurricanes, not just part of a storm system like this, but -- and throughout most of the night, we were watching the forecasters here in the Oklahoma area.

And many of these storms that were moving through last night had winds of 70 to 80 miles per hour. So it was really quite a storm system that just blew through the state over the course of several hours last night -- Abby.

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PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, in all that destruction, some good news that there were no fatalities.

Thank you, ed.

And, Derek Van Dam in the Weather Center, we are not out of the woods yet. It's been a rough couple of days for the entire country, really. What's happening with the forecast?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, certainly.

So, Abby, the storms that moved through where Ed is located across Norman in Central Oklahoma, they actually moved through at a cool 95 miles per hour. That is just incredible, so much energy associated with it. It spawned off nine tornadoes. And then that same storm system now moving across the Midwest in the Ohio River Valley.

This is the threat as it stands right now. We have a level two of five from the Storm Prediction Center. Look at the big cities here, Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, even Louisville on the outskirts of that stronger threat level today. You can see the low pressure kind of wrapping in on itself.

And there is a threat of tornadoes today. But we can't forget the fact that these storms have produced, as Ed talked about, 74 mile-per-hour wind gusts in excess, even in places like Central Oklahoma and Texas.

Here's a look at the latest tornado watch that's in effect. Check this out. This is actually just new just coming to the CNN Weather Center. That is a severe thunderstorm warning for the greater Indianapolis metropolitan. So, that area needs to prepare for severe weather as we speak. There's a tornado warning just to the north.

And you can see the threat level here. We have a 5 percent chance of any one singular point here within a 20-mile radius of that point seeing a tornado through the course of the day today.

Now, flipping gears, because this storm system is going to encounter a lot of cold air. So you know how you haven't had much snow in New York City, only a half-an-inch so far? Well, that's going to change today and into the day on Tuesday, as three to five inches of snow is anticipated, heavier amounts across the Catskills, as well as the I-95 Corridor.

Providence, Rhode Island, you could pick up 10 inches of snow from the same storm system. And Abby was mentioning that another storm starting to impact the Western U.S. Look at the blizzard warnings across the Sierra Nevada range, certainly going to build up a very, very healthy snowpack as we enter into the end of the meteorological winter -- Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, some late winter weather for some parts of the country, but not here where I am in Washington.

Derek Van Dam, thank you very much.

It is expected to be the biggest abortion ruling since the Supreme Court struck down Roe vs. Wade last year. How a federal judge in Texas could block women all over the country from accessing a widely used abortion drug.

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PHILLIP: So we could see another key abortion ruling as early as today, as a federal judge could decide on a lawsuit that seeks to block access to a drug that one of -- that is one of just two abortion pills utilized in the United States. Those pills are in more than half of abortions. And they're often

prescribed to help women recover from miscarriages as well.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is following all of this.

So, Jessica, this is pretty extraordinary, not only because it could be nationwide, but because this is a drug that's been approved for more than 20 years.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's been a long time, and it suddenly could get halted for its use. That is the expectation here as we wait for this ruling at any point.

So both sides of this abortion debate, they're really prepping for what could be this big decision from just one federal judge in Texas with nationwide implications. So what this judge is asked to do is, he's asked to block access to medication abortion nationwide. And given that he is a Trump-appointed judge with a long history of anti- abortion activism before he became a judge, all sides do anticipate that he will block the use of this drug.

So this abortion pill in question, it's mifepristone. It's been approved by the FDA, as you mentioned, for more than 20 years. And right now, medication abortion does make up the majority of abortions nationwide. So, if the challengers to this drug win, as is expected, it would actually mean that women in states where abortion has been virtually halted already, they wouldn't have this drug as another option.

And even in states where abortion still legal, it would mean that women would not have this medication abortion option. And that could really create some major delays and backlogs at abortion clinics that are still in existence.

So, Abby, this really is the biggest court decision since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June. Abortion rights advocates, they have been criticizing actually the group that brought this lawsuit, because they're saying that they specifically chose this particular federal court in Amarillo, Texas, because it does just have this one federal judge, Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk.

He was very vocal against abortion before he became a judge. And now, of course, he could issue this ruling with nationwide impact at any moment. Of course, though, this forum shopping does happen, where they pick a particular court or judge. It happens on both sides here. But now, with this ruling upcoming, it's really gotten even more criticism and traction than ever before -- Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, and these nationwide injunctions as well also something that is really significant here.

SCHNEIDER: For sure.

PHILLIP: We will be keeping close tabs on that case. Thank you, Jessica Schneider. And millions of Americans with student debt could see a big chunk of it wiped out on a case that goes before the Supreme Court tomorrow. It could mean that up to $20,000 -- it could mean up to $20,000 off of a student loan bill for some borrowers, and some 26 million and people have already applied for that program before it was initially struck down.

So, let's bring in CNN Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic to dive into this a little bit.

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