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First Lady Weighs In On Whether Biden Will Seek 2nd Term; DeSantis Launches Campaign-Style Video Ahead Of Book Release; RNC Chair: Requiring Loyalty Pledge For GOP Debate A "No-Brainer"; Potential GOP 2024 Hopefuls Divided Over U.S. Aid To Ukraine; House GOP Committees Plan Probes Into Ohio Derailment; SpaceX, NASA Now Aiming For Thursday Launch of Space Station Mission. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 27, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was that way heading into 2020 and the same way heading into 2024.
Now the first lady there did offer the family support for the president, should he decide to run, but she also left an opening for him should he decide to go down a different route.
We had this conversation with the first lady as we traveled with her through Africa over the course of the past five days, visiting Namibia and Kenya.
And we will have more of that interview coming up on Thursday -- Victor and Bianna?
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Arlette Saenz, thank you.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Ron Brownstein is a CNN senior political analyst and senior editor for "The Atlantic."
Ron, good to see you.
The first lady supports the president's decision. It would have been huge news if she said, no, I'm not into it if you decide to run.
How big a deal is this from Joe Biden?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's great to be with you.
Well, not only does she support it but, in her mind, she said, in her mind, the decision has been made.
We're in kind of a strange position on the Democratic side because, on the one hand, you know, we see consistently in polls there are a large number of rank-and-file Democrats who are skeptical about Biden running again.
That was evident in the exit polls in 2022. It's evident in the national polls that continue to come out. They worry he's too old. On the other hand, there is no institutional support anywhere in the
party for a challenge.
I mean, you know, normally, you would look at those numbers and say, well, some ambitious new politician would make a name for themselves by challenging. But that is not developing.
In part, because I don't think, in the Democratic Party, anybody else would be as strong as him in '24. So he has lots of time to make his decision.
But I think Democrats, the institutional force of the Democratic Party are very comfortable with him running again and are expecting that as the outcome.
GOLODRYGA: Ron, that's the Democrats. Let's talk about potential Republican candidates.
Ron DeSantis has not said he's made a decision on what he's doing, but a lot of speculation as to whether or not he will announce that he's running.
He has a legislative session he's got to get through. But there is a book coming out, a lot of focus on him.
You wrote about him recently and you said, "In many areas where he could have been grasping for suburban or moderate voters and talking and talking about the economy and some of his accomplishments in Florida, he is, instead, going full MAGA and focusing on culture war issues."
Talk about the question you raise in your piece about whether he can run on Trumpism without being Trump.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Right. I mean, this is the fundamental tension in the possible Ron DeSantis candidacy.
And certainly, Bianna, he has the same built-in excuse that George W. Bush had in 1999 about delaying an announcement until after the legislative session in his state.
But he is doing all the kinds of things you would expect of an eventual candidate, the swing around New York and Pennsylvania and Illinois last week. He will be in California this weekend and Texas.
So he's giving himself the capacity to run. But what's striking, though, is there is a fundamental tension to the way he's presenting himself to a lot of Republican strategists.
The potential appeal of DeSantis is the thought that, as someone who is less personally polarizing than Donald Trump, he could win back the white-collar suburban voters that moved away from the party in the suburbs of Philadelphia or Atlanta or Detroit, and really move those states out of reach for the GOP since 2016.
On the other hand, as you note, the way he's choosing to define himself in the Republican primary is not so much as a competent administrator and someone who kept the economy moving. He's defining himself as a culture warrior.
If you talk to a group like Pan America, which is a free speech group, they say what he's doing to control speech in classrooms, from kindergarten through college, there is no precedent for it in American history.
And obviously, there are other issues, like permit-less carry for handguns and the potential of his six-week abortion ban in Florida.
On the one hand, I think very clearly he is signaling he doesn't want Donald Trump to get to his right on the cultural issues.
But the question is, even if he wins the nomination, does that undermine what is supposed to be one of his core strengths, which is the ability to win back some of the socially moderate white-collar suburbs?
BLACKWELL: Ron, this rule the RNC is considering, to require every participant in the primary debates to pledge to support the eventual nominee, I wonder how difficult that's going to be for, let's say, if Liz Cheney gets into the race.
The potential that she would say, yes, I would support Donald Trump, or Governor Hutchinson who said Trump's activities around January 6th disqualified him for the nomination.
Of course, will Trump even make the pledge?
BROWNSTEIN: Victor, you are putting your finger on the core irony here. Many people are interpreting this rule as an attempt to put shackles and constraints on Donald Trump when this rule may benefit Donald Trump.
[14:34:59]
We all know, from his history, even long before politics, as a developer in New York, we know how much weight Donald Trump puts on commitments he makes and written commitments.
The idea he would sign this to get on the debate stage and not find a reason to renounce it later if he thinks that's in his interest, that's ridiculous.
I think everyone would expect that if Trump feels he was badly treated or just doesn't like losing, if he does lose, in fact, he would find a way out of this commitment.
On the other hand, this commitment might preclude from the debate stage some of the voices that would make the sharpest case against Trump.
Like a Liz Cheney or an Asa Hutchinson or maybe even some of the other governors and former governors, like Larry Hogan, who are thinking about running. While this is being interpreted as a way to put constraints on Trump,
in the end, he might be the beneficiary of the RNC pushing this requirement.
GOLODRYGA: There seems to be some growing question as to whether or not there is a specific Republican policy in terms of providing aid for Ukraine.
For the most part, Democrats seem to still be supporting. I would just, to be fair, Republicans, too.
But we are hearing more and more prominent names continue to raise concerns about a blank check and even about the threat that Vladimir Putin poses.
Let's play this sound from DeSantis last week on FOX News on this issue. And then you will hear how former Vice President Pence responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): The fear of kind of Russia going into NATO countries and all that and steam rolling, you know, that does not even come close to happening.
MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say anyone that thinks that Vladimir Putin will stop at Ukraine is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: What do you make of this growing divide and rift within the Republican party over the future of aid for Ukraine?
BROWNSTEIN: So interesting. First of all, it is a reflection of what I was saying a moment ago, that DeSantis seems to have made a calculation, he won't let Donald Trump get to his populus right on any issue where he can help it.
It was surprising to a lot of Republicans, including many who enthusiastic about DeSantis as a potential '24 nominee that he moves so far in the Trump direction, skepticism toward aid of Ukraine.
Not only for the specifics, Bianna, but as a signal of this broader dynamic that Trump may be exerting a magnetic pull on him in a way that weakens him as a candidate.
But this is where the Ukraine fight is going to be fought out initially. You might see it institutionally with the Senate Republicans being more supportive and the House Republicans being more skeptical.
But the divide between a Mitch McConnell and a Mike Pence and a Nikki Haley on one side, or that neo-Reaganite position that we have to show strength, we have to stand up against Putin and Russia, versus this kind of populous conservative neo-Trump view of Marjorie Taylor Greene and potentially Ron DeSantis, saying, you know, this is not our fight. I think that latter group will be very loud in the House. And it will
have an audience in the presidential primary. And then you will have this more traditional.
That's where the fight will unfold first rather than the Republican Party unifying against one position where they could pressure Joe Biden.
BLACKWELL: Ron Brownstein, always good to have you for the conversation. Thank you so much.
NASA and SpaceX scrubbed today's launch of a new team of astronauts headed to the International Space Station. We will explain why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:52]
BLACKWELL: Hazardous waste from the toxic train disaster in East Palestine, Ohio, will not be leaving the state after all.
It is expected to head today to two facilities in state that the EPA approved over the weekend.
That contaminated soil and water had initially been sent to Texas and Michigan. But local officials complained they did not receive any warning that the waste would be sent into their jurisdictions for disposal.
GOLODRYGA: All rail cars from the derailment have been removed from the scene except for the 11 the NTSB is holding for its investigation.
Also today, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg directed the heads of major freight railroads to join a hazard report assessment, setting a deadline for them by the end of this week.
BLACKWELL: At least three Republican-controlled House committees are planning to investigate the East Palestine disaster. Some GOP Congressmen have criticized President Biden's response.
GOLODRYGA: But the White House is saying he's satisfied with what has been done so far and has no plans to visit the site of the catastrophe.
CNN chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is here with more.
So, Manu, give us the details on what Republicans are intending to do right now.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're actually seeing a split in how House Republicans and Senate Democrats are dealing with the aftermath of this issue.
House Republicans very much focused on the Biden administration's response to this crisis, what has been done, what was not done in the run-up to this and what should have been done. Letters were sent, including to the Environmental Protection Agency
asking for a timeline of events, detailing exactly what happened here.
Also the possibility of hearings. Michael Regan, the administrator of the EPA, potentially could appear before House-controlled committee.
Also Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary, is someone Republicans believe could eventually be forced to testify about this matter.
Now, there are at least three House Republican committees moving forward on this, hoping to get some answers from the Biden administration.
Democrats in the Senate side have a different focus. This over Norfolk Southern.
This CEO of that company, Alan Shaw, is expected to be asked to testify by the Senate Majority Leader Church Schumer, who wants Shaw to testify before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee when it plans to have its own hearing on this issue as soon as March.
[14:45:02]
So you are seeing Republicans go after the Biden administration. Democrats targeting the company itself. And just a lot of questions here that lawmakers do not have answers to and they're hoping to get them in the weeks ahead.
BLACKWELL: Any legislation potentially coming down the pipe in response to the derailment?
RAJU: That is still in the area under discussion by both sides, especially as this crisis continues to unfold.
One idea floated today by the Ohio freshman Republican Senator J.D. Vance is for federal rescue funds to be provided to the people affected of East Palestine, Ohio.
He didn't specify a dollar amount, but that is something that could eventually be on the table. If this crisis continues to unfold, people in that community need federal dollars, expect there to be a push in Congress to try to get that money to them.
But will there be enough support to get there? It still needs to play out over the days and weeks. But it is one issue that Senators are talking about -- Guys?
GOLODRYGA: All right, Manu Raju, following it all for us, thank you.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says inflation is still too high but the battle to bring it down while maintaining a strong job market has been, quote, "so far so good." We'll have more on that just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:46]
BLACKWELL: SpaceX and NASA are now targeting Thursday for the next mission to the International Space Station.
GOLODRYGA: Today's attempted liftoff had to be scrubbed at the last minute due to a problem relating to liquid used for ignition of the rocket engines.
CNN's space and defense correspondent, Kristin Fisher, joins us with more.
Kristin, this is a fully crewed mission with astronauts on board. What more do we know about the scrub launch today and plans for another attempt perhaps Thursday?
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE & DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it's important to the keep it in perspective, scrubs happen. Look at the current NASA Administrator Bill Nelson's SpaceX flight back in 1986. He scrubbed four times before successfully lifting off. So scrubs happen. That's not unusual.
What is unusual here, though, this is the first time that SpaceX has ever scrubbed due to technical issues for a crewed or a manned flight up into outer space. So that's what's really different here.
And when you look at what happened -- and that was the Falcon 9 rocket on the launchpad at the Kennedy Space Center, very early this morning -- there was a problem with the rocket's ignition system.
Essentially, the fluid that's used to light the Falcon 9 rocket engines, there was a problem on the ground with that system.
And so SpaceX called off this launch, with four astronauts on board, two NASA astronaut, one Russian cosmonaut, and one astronaut from the United Arab Emirates.
NASA and SpaceX called it off with two minutes left on the countdown clock, at about 1:43 in the morning Eastern time.
So, you know, Bianna and Victor, just imagine, I mean, everybody involved with NASA and SpaceX for this launch. Obviously, it's a huge inconvenience for them when you're dealing with a scrub this early in the morning.
But imagine if you're one of those astronauts sitting on top of a fully fueled rocket, highly flammable. You've been gearing up to go for this moment.
The countdown clock is ticking down. You get all the way to the two- minute mark and they say, oh, scrub, we've got to defuel the rocket and get you out of there safely.
It's tough. It's a part of human space flight. It happens all the time. But it certainly doesn't make it any easier.
They're going to try Thursday. If that doesn't work, the next attempt is Friday.
GOLODRYGA: Listen, if I'm up there in that suit and you say something is wrong, you all do what you all got to do. Make sure everything is right.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
GOLODRYGA: Are you coming back Thursday?
BLACKWELL: I'm coming back Thursday. But get it together. I'll be back.
Kristin Fisher, thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, as the CIA says it's confident that China could send lethal aid to Russia against Ukraine, the U.S. is now warning of the real cost China will face if it does. We'll have the details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:57:55]
GOLODRYGA: Well, we have a tragedy to tell you about from the southern coast of Italy. Today, a priest gave last rites on a beach to multiple bodies recovered after a migrant boat went down Sunday before dawn.
The white bags cover just some of the 63 people who can killed. Among them, a 3-month-old baby.
BLACKWELL: Police in Calabria released this video of the wooden boats the victims were in. They say it was caring more than 150 people before it hit rocks and broke apart.
More than 80 people survived, Italian fire officials say. They also say some survivors were from Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkey.
A show of support for the children impacted by Turkey's deadly earthquake. Hundreds of soccer fans -- look at this -- they threw stuffed animals onto the field during a match in Istanbul Sunday.
GOLODRYGA: The game was stopped at four minutes and 17 seconds to correspond with the time the earthquake struck southeastern Turkey the morning of February 26th.
The toys will be sent to surviving children.
Some fans also chanted "government resign" to protest the disaster response of President Erdogan's government, to which many believe has been slow and insufficient.
On lighter news, a victorious and proud moment for Victor's alma mater, Howard University.
BLACKWELL: For the first time in 30 years, H.U.'s men swim and dive team are the Northeastern Conference champs.
Howard's swim coaches were also awarded Outstanding Coaching Staff of the Year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARION SOLOMON, HOWARD MEN'S SWIM TEAM: And 1.5 percent of African- Americans represented in college swimming. There could be a lot more of representation in college swimming.
So with us, you know, making a statement the way we did this weekend, I feel like we can do more.
NICHOLAS ASKEW, DIRECTOR OF SWIMMING & DIVING, HOWARD UNIVERSITY: We firmly believe if you can see it, you can achieve it.
These young men and women work super hard day in and day out just because of that, because they know there's very little representation out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: H.U. then broke 16 records and the women's team broke 15 records.
[14:59:57]
When I was at Howard, I had the option to either take swimming or badminton.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And?
BLACKWELL: Badminton.
GOLODRYGA: OK. You see what you could have done?
BLACKWELL: I could have done --
GOLODRYGA: They could have been champs much sooner.
BLACKWELL: It could have been me. Could have been me.
GOLODRYGA: Congratulations to them.
