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Murdaugh's Brother Describes Cleaning Up Crime Scene; Murdoch Admits Some Fox Hosts Endorsed 2020 Election Lies; Consumer Confidence Slumped In February Amid Recession Worries; Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 28, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

HILL: Big day in this trial, Dianne. And the jury is going to be there for a little bit longer, now that we know there are seven witnesses.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And that was not expected this morning. Erica, yesterday, the prosecution wrapped up. They told the judge they were anticipating between three and four witnesses for their rebuttal.

This morning, the defense came in very angry, to be honest, telling the judge that this just sort of keeps ballooning. Remember, this initially was supposed to be a three-week trial. We're now in week number six here and have yet to get to closing arguments, noting that they feel that the state is trying to retry its case as its rebuttal.

Now, the judge said that's something they cannot do because the defense that -- if they do that, they want to have a sub-buttal, sub- buttal. They want to be able to then come back and call additional witnesses. And we're sort of looking at a potential of this back and forth here. The judge saying that they will try to limit the scope of what these witnesses testify to on the stand right now is the pathologist, Dr. Ellen Riemer, who originally testified about the wounds. And the way that Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were killed.

Of course, there was a pathologist, one of the three witnesses the defense called yesterday who sort of refuted some of her testimony. So this is a rebuttal witness that we're seeing here.

The defense close out yesterday after those two expert witnesses with the younger brother of Alex Murdaugh, John Marvin Murdaugh. He talked about what it was like after Paul and Maggie were killed, including interviews done with law enforcement, calling into question some of the state's narrative and timeline.

But he also brought emotion, talking about what it was like for him the morning after the murders, when he was down at the kennels, after law enforcement left cleaning up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MURDAUGH, ALEX MURDAUGH'S BROTHER: Did it not being cleaned up, I saw blood, I saw brains, I saw pieces of skull. For some reason, I thought it was not something that I needed to do for Paul to clean it up. I felt like it was the right thing to do. I felt like I owed him and I started cleaning. And I can promise you, no mother or father or aunt or uncle should ever have to see and do what I did that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, once the state's reply is finished, the jury is going to go and visit Moselle, the scene of those crimes, that Murdaugh family property. The prosecution initially said it was going to be finished today. We will see, Jim and Erica.

HILL: Yes. We'll be watching to see when that actually happens. Dianne, appreciate it. Thank you.

As we continue the conversation, joining us criminal defense attorney, Ashleigh Merchant. Ashleigh, good to have you with us this morning.

You know, I'm interested as we look at when this site -- when this site visit will actually happen. The fact that it has been nearly two years since those murders. How impactful do you think this visit will be?

ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it can be very impactful. But the issue is the site has changed. There's been some trees that have grown. And so the defense actually is the one that wants the jury to go out and see the site, which is somewhat rare.

Normally, the defense does not want a jury to go out to the site, because it's very powerful to be in a place where someone in a crime like this happened or a death like this happened. And so it's very rare to see the defense actually want this, but I think it will be powerful as the last image that the jury sees.

I also think it sort of ties into their defense that there were possibly two shooters here, because of the space, they want the jury to be able to see how small the space was, and how their theory and what their pathologist testified to is actually plausible. And that's important, because the state has a duty to disprove this defense. They have a duty to disprove what the defense said about this being two shooters. And so that's going to be something that I think we'll see in the next couple days.

HILL: Right. To your point, so all the defense has to do, right, just as a reminder is to raise just the smallest bit of doubt. I want to play a little bit of that testimony that you just referenced about this forensic expert who said he believed there could have -- there were two shooters. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY PALMBACH, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Individual who shot first with the shotgun minimally was stunned, probably bloody material in his eyes and maybe have been injured and would have taken some degree of time to recover.

Why would you break -- why would one shooter bring two long rifles, two long weapons to the event? You can't handle and shoot two of them. So you either got to put one down, use one, or -- and then swap out and grab the other one. Or I suppose you could have one on a sling, but that's quite awkward.

HILL: So it sounds like you're saying, you definitely see him doing enough to raise some doubt there as he lays out what he believes happened. I was also struck by the final witness. We just heard a little bit from him. Alex Murdaugh's brother talking about cleaning up after the murders, what that moment was like for him but also his interaction with officers. How did he do in terms of a witness? How convincing was he?

[10:35:12]

MERCHANT: He did great. And there was a reason that they put him last. There was a reason that they wanted the last thing the jury to hear from the defense was someone who loved the victims, saying that they did not believe that Murdaugh did this. That is very powerful. Someone who very much loved Paul saying, they don't have the right person. That's powerful for the jury to hear last.

And so this was sort of a wrap up day. You know, this was a last day when they're hearing evidence that there's two shooters, that the guns were so cumbersome that there had to be two people handling it. And then you hear from the uncle saying, they don't have the suspect. They don't have the right guy. It's very powerful.

HILL: Be interesting to see just how powerful things are today, as we know seven witnesses and laid out, defense not necessarily happy about that, as the prosecution brings back these final witnesses prior to that site visit. We are not done with this yet, Ashleigh, appreciate it. As always, thank you.

MERCHANT: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, still ahead, the Fox Chairman, Rupert Murdoch, admits that some on-air host of Fox News, some of the biggest endorsed 2020 election lies. What we're learning in newly revealed court documents.

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[10:40:53]

SCIUTTO: New filings show that Fox Corporation head, Rupert Murdoch, admitted under oath that some Fox News host, some of the biggest, endorsed 2020 election lies on the air.

HILL: The conservative media mogul made those statements in a deposition for the Dominion Voting Systems $1.6 billion lawsuit against the network.

CNN's Oliver Darcy Joining us now. So walk us through these latest admissions because there -- there's something.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes. These are really damning revelations that we're continuing to see come out in these legal filings in this Dominion $1.6 billion defamation suit. In this case, you have Rupert Murdoch admitting that some of his top host, people like Sean Hannity, Maria Bartiromo, Jeanine Pirro, he admits that they endorsed false election conspiracy theories, theories that Rupert Murdoch privately, at the time, was privately telling people were damaging to the country. He used the word BS, I mean, very harsh language behind the scenes.

But in front of the cameras, in front of Rupert Murdoch's on cameras, he allowed these hosts to go on air and peddle these falsehoods. And I think this really gets at the -- at the broader point about Fox that it's less about being a news network as much as just being a dishonest organization that will feed its viewers the content that keeps them glued to the screens.

And after the election in 2020, you saw some of them rebel against the channel when they call the election for Biden. And Fox News, according to these documents, you can see it, got very nervous, and they really pulled back and decided to just give the viewers what they want. And that's not something a news organization really does.

SCIUTTO: Oliver, you cover the media business. Are there -- have there been any penalties for the Fox personalities involved in spreading those lies? And crucially, is Fox covering this for their viewer -- to Fox viewers know this?

DARCY: Well, there are no penalties for the people that were pushing these lies, outside maybe Lou Dobbs who lost his show. But the people who seem to be punished actually were the people that were fact checking Trump in real time.

So there were, you know, in one of the documents we saw that Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity were conspiring to try to punish White House correspondent Jackie Heinrich. When she fact checked Trump, we saw that Bill Sammon, who made the call, or was one of the people made the call on election night to call the election for -- or Arizona for Joe Biden, that Rupert Murdoch suggested that he should be fired. And, of course, he was eventually let go from the network.

So the people who were reprimanded, it seems like were the people telling the truth over at Fox News, which is even more remarkable. And in terms of whether Fox viewers are hearing this, they're not. I mean, they have a show that purportedly covers news media in a fair way. And the host of that show, Howard Kurtz, went on air this past weekend, and said that he is not allowed -- that the network has made a decision that he is not allowed to cover this really explosive, scandalous media story for the network's viewers. So Fox viewers are not hearing a word about this on the channel.

HILL: Be interesting to see if this does in fact make it to trial, which is set for April, whether some of that will in fact break through. Oliver, appreciate it. As always, thank you.

SCIUTTO: For more now, we're joined by White House bureau chief for The Washington Post, Tolu Olorunnipa. And Tolu, I want to ask you about this because we're leading up to the 2024 election. We're three years removed -- well, two and a half removed from 2020 and all these lies. You don't have any penalties or really any coverage on the primary right wing network, you know, covering this, admitting that lie.

You have the Republican now Speaker of the House who's calling for who's now released those January 6 tapes of Tucker Carlson with the possibility of, you know, pushing back on the facts we know about the assault on the Capitol and you have Trump running for office again, again, saying the election was stolen.

I just wonder when we look at this politically that that lie is not dead, and it's going to play a factor in the 2024 race?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, and you see a number of other Republicans who continue to push forward these conspiracies about our elections, conspiracies about the midterm elections that just passed and some of them have advanced into more prominent positions on the coattails of the former president who continues to promote some of these lies about the 2020 election, and has said that he would also do so about the 2024 election if he's not able to win.

[10:45:16]

So it's pretty clear that election denialism, even though it was rejected by most of the voters in the 2022 midterms, is alive and well. And when you have an entire media platform that buys into some of those things, it gives it air to continue to breathe and continue to exist in our politics.

HILL: Our CNN team on Capitol Hill this morning reporting to Speaker McCarthy who was defending his decision this morning behind closed doors to release that January 6 footage to Tucker Carlson, that last night, he was actually telling his leadership team, he was working to ensure that the footage wouldn't endanger security.

What is the level of concern though in Washington at this point about that footage and how it may be used or manipulated? How it could perhaps impact not only perception, but security?

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. This is a lot of footage that was released, thousands and thousands of hours worth of footage that was handed over, not only just to the media at large, but to a specific media personality that has engaged in conspiracy theories and has tried to push forward a message about January 6 that is not in line with the truth.

And so there is concern that this information will be cherry picked, will be manipulated, will be taken out of context to try to put a different narrative from the narrative that we've heard about January 6 from the meticulous January 6 Committee and all of the reporting that was done over the past two years.

And so this is a potential attempt at revisionist history. And there's a concern that not only will the operations of the Capitol be put at risk, but also the idea that what we saw in January 6 should never happen again. We'll also be put at risk if it is downplayed and seen as not the tragedy and the violent attack on the democracy that it was. And so if we allow this to be downplayed or spun or sort of taken apart with conspiracy theories, then we potentially could see ourselves in this position once again in the future.

SCIUTTO: East Palestinian become quite a political issue and quite a lot of attention. President Biden has not yet visited East Palestinian. Buttigieg, the EPA Administrator, Regan, have. Why not? And will that happen?

OLORUNNIPA: No plans on the books yet for the president to go, but we have seen the increased engagement from the White House, especially in recent weeks as this has become such a cultural battle and a political battle. And you saw the former President Donald Trump show up there. You've heard a number of Republicans attacking the Biden administration for its response.

And so you have seen the White House engage more directly on this. You've seen the president tweeting about it. You've seen him taking meetings and then publicly showing that he's engaged on this. No signs yet that he's going to go.

But it's very clear that as this has become this cultural battle that has put the White House on alert that not only do they need to be doing the work on the ground, but they also need to be engaging in the public messaging about what they're doing so people know that they are taking this seriously.

HILL: Tolu Olorunnipa, always good to have you with us. Thank you.

Pennsylvania senator, John Fetterman's office says he is doing well on a path to recovery as he continues to be treated for clinical depression. This is the first update since the senator checked himself into Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Maryland nearly two weeks ago.

The Senator's office, as his treatment is expected to last several weeks, but also says he's had regular interactions with his staff and noted that if there were any pressing matters in the Senate, that he would be in a position to engage on those matters.

SCIUTTO: We do wish him a speedy recovery.

Still ahead, new figures show that America's confidence in the economy took a downturn in the last month. Details on what is driving that change in sentiment, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:17]

SCIUTTO: Just a new data shows that consumer confidence in the U.S. economy slipped this month amid recession worries, also rising interest rates.

HILL: CNN business correspondent, Rahel Solomon, is with us. So that number is actually lower than what economists expected. I feel like the roller coaster of the economy continues.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it does. And last month, this month was no different. So consumer confidence slumping again coming in at 102.9 for the month of February. For people at home, the expectation was closer to 108.

What this broadly tells us is the higher the number, the better we all feel about the state of the economy both now and about six months from now. And the lower the number, while the reverse is true, the more pessimistic we're all feeling.

So when you look at present assessments, how people felt about things, currently the state of the labor market, that actually ticked up, but only because of the labor market jobs are plentiful, which makes sense, right? Unemployment is at a record low, you have to open jobs for every one person looking. But where things take a turn and really go south is what people expect about six months from now.

The Conference Board is saying that the outlook appears considerably more pessimistic when looking ahead. Expectations for where jobs, incomes, and business conditions are headed over the next six months all fell sharply in February and actually remaining at recessionary levels for the last 11 of the past 12 months.

And people are feeling pretty sour about where things are headed, even if they feel OK right now.

HILL: Yes.

SOLOMON: And that explains why we also look at the report people say they're planning to really pull back on large ticket purchases, appliances, cars, homes, and also vacations.

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Home prices, they also fell. I mean, that's something that's watched as part of the broader inflation picture. What do we know?

SOLOMON: Yes. I mean, home prices. I think this will be a relief for a lot of people, right? So home prices falling for the sixth month in a row with a median decline of 1.1 percent. All 20 cities that the report tracks saw some declines.

[10:55:07]

We know part of this is because home prices have really ramped up over the last few years. So you couple that with high interest rates, because of what the Fed is doing to try to tamp down on inflation. And a lot of people have just been pushed out of the housing market. And so you're actually starting to see people on the sidelines, you're starting to see that people cannot afford to buy homes. And so home prices, consequently are also falling. So good news for anyone who's in the market for a home right now.

HILL: Yes, yes. That's for sure. Rahel. Appreciate it. As always, thank you.

And thanks to all of you for joining us today. I'm Erica Hill.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. "AT THIS HOUR with KATE BOLDUAN" starts right after a quick break.

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