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Murdoch Admits Fox News Pushed Election Lies On Air; California Facing Another Storm; Republicans Accuse Biden Of Mishandling Toxic Train Wreck. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired February 28, 2023 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead on CNN Newsroom. A stunning admission under oath. The chair of the Fox Corporation Rupert Murdoch acknowledges that Fox News anchors pushed election lies on air.

After a weekend of blizzard conditions California faces yet another winter storm. But does all this wet weather mean the state's historic drought is over. We will speak with a leading snow lab scientist.

Plus, a new assessment on the origins of the COVID pandemic is only adding to the confusion.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemarie Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. Well, we begin with astonishing testimony from the media Titan behind Fox News that could have huge legal ramifications for the network. Rupert Murdoch has admitted under oath that some Fox News anchors endorsed false claims on air about the 2020 U.S. presidential election being stolen. Now these are the fox anchors Murdoch said spread former President Donald Trump's lies about election fraud.

Lou Dobbs, Maria Bartiromo, Jeanine Pirro and Sean Hannity. Murdoch made it clear that he doesn't believe the right wing talk network as an entity promoted the lies but the Fox Corporation chairman admitted that he wished Fox News had issued a more forceful response.

Murdoch testified, I would have liked us to be stronger in denouncing in hindsight. And when asked what the consequences should be for Fox executives who knowingly allowed lies to be broadcast, Murdoch replied "They shouldn't be reprimanded. They should be reprimanded, maybe got rid of." His shocking remarks came during a deposition taken by Dominion Voting Systems.

The voting technology company is suing Fox News for $1.6 billion over unproven fraud claims from its 2020 election coverage.

Douglas Brinkley is a presidential historian and professor of history at Rice University. And he joins me now from Austin, Texas. A pleasure to have you with us.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, pleasure to be here.

CHURCH: So, let's start with these new legal filings in the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit against Fox News. Chairman Rupert Murdoch admitting under oath that some Fox T.V. host endorsed false stolen election claims, but he tried to shift the blame away from Fox and onto hosts Lou Dobbs, Maria Bartiromo, Janine Pirro and Sean Hannity. But admitted Fox News should have been stronger in denouncing full selection claims.

So, what could this have or what impact do you think this could have on the 2024 presidential election? And have you ever seen anything like this?

BRINKLEY: No. I mean, Fox News is in deep trouble. There's -- Murdoch is trying to make a distinction between a few of his anchors, a few of his on-air personalities, and not the network as a whole. But it's very clear that Fox overstepped its bounds, that it promoted the idea that our election was stolen, it played into the Trump big lie. And so alas, I think foxes can have to clean up their act. This could end up going to the Supreme Court.

It's hard to win defamation cases, you know, like Dominion Voting Systems trying to do, but nevertheless, the records pretty clear that Fox knew that this whole Trump thing about the stolen election and the rigged election was bogus, but they ran with it on the air anyway. It's a sad moment in cable T.V. history.

CHURCH: Yes, indeed. Now, I do want to turn to another big issue. The Ohio train derailment. House Republican committees are pushing to launch investigations into the toxic train disaster on East Palestine, eager to inject politics into this issue by accusing President Biden of mishandling the aftermath and forsaking that small town in favor of traveling to Kyiv and Ukraine to meet with President Zelenskyy.

Now it's become popular called flashpoint which I don't think the White House thought would happen. What mistakes were made and where do you see this going?

[02:05:08]

BRINKLEY: Well, whenever there's an environmental disaster, I think about when the Cuyahoga River and Ohio caught fire in 1969 or there's a famous Santa Barbara oil spill or more recently a B.P. oil spill. The White House has to act and speak quickly. Barack Obama got pummeled for not talking more forcefully when there was the B.P. oil spill. So, the Biden administration did all the right things from a networking and legal and safety point of view.

But they got the optics wrong. I mean, Biden needed to have -- I think, have offered a quick message to the people of Ohio in a dramatic way. Perhaps Kamala Harris, certainly Pete Buttigieg should have been there sooner than he was. So, the Republicans are going to dine out on this East Palestinian as, you know, is on the Pennsylvania border. That's a very important voting area there in Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio.

And I think if the Biden administration had an opportunity, again, they would have done everything they did. They would have hold -- held, you know, the Rail Norfolk Southern accountable but they may have done the spin talking about it, the communication, the grieving a little more forcefully.

CHURCH: Yes. Because that seems to be what's missing here, doesn't it? And when does the attention revert back to that company involved in this training disaster and how much blame lies with them or does that accountability go out the window when there's a presidential election on the horizon?

BRINKLEY: Well, I think what happened is a Biden administration saw there were no fatalities as heinous as it was, and let's be clear, whether you're Republican Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio or Democrat Sherrod Brown from Ohio, nobody likes something like this happening. Nobody wants to see a toxic fireball on their T.V. screen. Everybody feels badly for the people of East Palestine.

But this is going to end up being used, I'm afraid, by the Republican Party as a way to beat up on the Biden administration. And on the other hand, Biden is going to say quite correctly, that it was deregulation under the Trump years. So, the railroad industries that made these chemical trains less safe. It's sad that it's a political football. It is one that hence that's politics in America. Does that mean Biden should have gone to the Ukraine and gone Ohio?

No, his trip to the Ukraine was needed to be prioritized. It was epic. But his administration could have done a little bit better, showing a little more compassion out of the gate, and there were no deaths. I think they thought it might fade from the news cycle and the EPA and others would take care of the problems down the line.

CHURCH: Douglas Brinkley, thank you so much for joining us. Enjoy your analysis always.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

CHURCH: Major bouts of winter weather are sweeping both the eastern and western U.S. coast. Nearly 50 million people are under winter weather alerts across the Northeast including New York City. New York's Governor warns up to a foot of snow could accumulate over Monday night in some areas. The state is also dealing with freezing rain and strong winds. Some schools in Connecticut and Rhode Island have already canceled classes for Tuesday due to the expected winter storm.

And parts of California are also getting some rare snowfall enough to for some areas to declare local emergencies. Some residents in San Bernardino County were trapped in their homes after several feet of snow fell in the area. Portions of Interstate 80 are also currently shut down due to zero visibility in the snow. Traffic officials said the conditions could last through Wednesday.

And the National Weather Service says the region is under a blizzard warning.

Andrew Schwartz is the lead scientist and station manager of the University of California Berkeley Central Sierra Snow Laboratory. And he joins me now from Berkeley, California. Appreciate you joining us.

ANDREW SCHWARTZ, LEAD SCIENTIST AND STATION MANAGER, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BERKELEY CENTRAL SIERRA SNOW LABORATORY: Thank you for having me on.

CHURCH: So, with all the storms hitting California right now, how is all that rain and snow impacting the state's drought conditions?

SCHWARTZ: We're seeing a lot of favorable development in our drought conditions. Especially short term. We've had a lot of areas in the state go from maybe severe or exceptional drought to moderate and we're seeing improvement as the days go on. The real question is where are we going to end the season at and how much of that is that going to help our long-term drought conditions? And with these consecutive storms coming in, it looks like it could help a lot.

CHURCH: Well, that's good news for people living across the state of course. What advice would you give to state and local officials when it comes to water conservation across California even as the rain and snow keeps coming because the drought isn't over yet?

[02:10:08]

SCHWARTZ: No. That's absolutely right. The drought isn't over yet. And so, conservation is still very important for everybody. From the policymakers all the way down to, you know, those of us just with our water coming out of our taps. We need to stay engaged with our water conservation because every drop that we save now is going to be a drop that we have available in the future. So, even though we've had all these amazing events, it's very important that we still conserve.

CHURCH: And talk to us about at what point you can assess that a drought is considered to be over? What is the process and how far away do you think California might be from making that declaration?

SCHWARTZ: Well, it really depends on how much precipitation we get in the upcoming month. Right? How much rain and snow we get. Typically, when we look at our upcoming water supply for the spring, summer and the following year, we look at our April 1st measurements. And so, we're getting very, very close to that point. I think, given all the precipitation that we've had, and the abundance that we've had, just means that we're in a really good spot.

And although we can't officially say the droughts over yet, because we have been in such a severe drought for multiple years, we are definitely lessening it. Now if we continue to just get plenty of snow and plenty of rain, and we get double what we would expect in a normal year, then maybe we can start talking about that longer term drought. But that being said, we are coming off the heels of the driest 23-year period in 1200 years.

So, it's not going to be a one and done solution in terms of precipitation for one year taking care of all of our drought.

CHURCH: Right. And I did want to ask you this, because in many parts of the world where there have been years of drought, when there is then a lot of precipitation, a lot of snow, a lot of rain, it can cause a lot of problems on the land because it just can't absorb all of that water in one hit too because it's so drying has been so very dry for so many years. So, what have been the consequences of that?

SCHWARTZ: Well, that's exactly right. When we have those very dry conditions, we can see that the soil becomes what's known as hydrophobic and sheds a lot of that water off or in another case, it will act like a sponge and soak a lot of that water up and you still don't get all the water that we would expect from our snowpack and from the rain. So, we've seen things here in California like flooding recently.

And if we do get warmer events coming in, things like atmospheric rivers that are rain instead of snowfall or warmer periods of air temperatures that are prolonged, we can get catastrophic flooding out of the current conditions as well given how much we've already gotten. So, there is a little bit of hesitancy to say that all of this snow and rain has been good. But that being said, it's much better than the alternative of another dry year.

CHURCH: Yes, absolutely. Andrew Schwartz, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

SCHWARTZ: Thank you for having me on.

CHURCH: New video shows the widespread devastation in Norman, Oklahoma, one of the areas hit hardest by the powerful storms and tornadoes that battered the states Sunday night. A total of nine tornadoes were reported statewide, and the one in Norman was the most significant with wind speeds of at least 111 miles per hour.

Still to come. As the war in Ukraine enters a second year, new analysis reveals the staggering losses already suffered by Russian troops on the battlefield. We'll have the numbers just ahead.

Also, still to come, the human tragedy of a migrant ship wreck on the Mediterranean is now being politicized. We'll have a report from Italy.

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[02:17:33]

CHURCH: We are following developments in Ukraine where military officials and even the President himself are describing a more challenging situation unfolding in Bakhmut on the Eastern Front Lines. Ukraine says Bakhmut remains the epicenter of Russia's nonstop attacks, as Russian forces gradually advance and the best trained Wagner Mercenary fighters are thrown into the battle. Without a new information about Russia's staggering losses on the battlefield, an analysis by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found Russia has suffered more combat deaths in Ukraine than all of its wars since World War II. It says the average rate of Russian soldiers killed per month is now at least 25 times higher than it was in Chechnya. And 35 times the number killed in Afghanistan.

CNN's Clare Sebastian is following developments and joins us now live from London. Good morning to Clare. So, what more are you learning about Russia's staggering troop losses? And of course, the impact this might be having on morale?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary. The CSIS study says that they estimate around 200,000 Russian soldiers have either been killed, injured or lost through desertion. Now we have to be careful with these numbers. We have not independently verified them. The CSIS has arrived at that figure through a combination of analysis of satellite imagery, open-source information, things like social media posts talking to sources on the ground.

The casualty figures in this war are fraught with misinformation open to manipulation on both sides. The latest official number by the way that we got from Russia was back in September, where the defense minister said that the number of deaths was just under 6000. So, you can see that Russia is not admitting to those kinds of numbers. Excuse me. But the reason why they are now comparing this to World War II is because this is a war that's now being fought a bit like World War II.

It's now descended, especially in the east into a sort of trench warfare style battle. They're dug into trenches. They're facing each other along the front line that's sort of hundreds of miles long. We know that there's a high level of expenditure of ammunition on both sides. And Ukraine is also reporting high casualties. Case in point, the situation around Bakhmut where after the best part of six months of fighting, it's even -- it's getting even more intense.

[02:20:01]

In terms of morale, Rosemary, the CSIS report asks the question essentially how can Putin continue to sell this to his people amid these high casualty rates? I think the interesting point to make here is that Putin is presenting this as a bit like World War II. He's saying that this is essentially a defensive operation, that this is Russia defending its historical lands facing an existential threat, protecting the Ukrainian people.

So, that is how he's selling it to this to his people, of course, in combination with a crackdown at home. And we may see more hints of this today when President Putin attends a meeting of the FSB. The internal security service. We know that he's been stepping up efforts in terms of a crackdown on dissent, surveillance, border security, things like that. So, we may see more evidence of that today.

CHURCH: All right. Great. Thank you so much. Clare Sebastian joining us live from London. Well, the E.U. the U.K. have struck a new deal on the Northern Ireland protocol. E.U. Chief Ursula von der Leyen and British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak detailed the terms of the agreement, which aims to resolve one of the thorniest legacies of Brexit.

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RISHI SUNAK, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: Today's agreement delivers smooth flowing trade within the whole United Kingdom. Protects Northern Ireland's place in our union, and safeguard sovereignty for the people of Northern Ireland.

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT OF EUROPEAN COMMISSION: This new framework will allow us to begin a new chapter. It provides for long lasting solutions that both of us are confident will work for all people and businesses in Northern Ireland.

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CHURCH: Red and green lanes are at the heart of this plan. British goods entering and staying in Northern Ireland will use a green lane at customs and a not checked. British goods traveling via Northern Ireland on to the Republic of Ireland and the E.U. will use the red lane and face checks.

Well, the death toll from Sunday's migrant shipwreck of Italy now stands at least 63. The wooden ship broke apart on rocks off the coast of Calabria. Italian politics have been shaped for years by the debate over what to do with migrants crossing the Mediterranean. And CNN's Ben Wedeman reports Sunday's tragedy has drawn a response from Rome and the Vatican.

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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTENATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The tide brings in wreckage of a boat, the wreckage of more lives lost in the Mediterranean. Among the dead to wash up on this lonely Calabrian Beach, an eight-month-old infant. The 20-meter-long wooden boat reportedly took to see from Turkey, Thursday, with perhaps as many as 250 people on board, coming from, among other places, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and Syria.

Fishermen Luciano Vincenzo (ph) was one of the first on the scene before dawn.

When we arrived, we found 10 dead, he said. And as dawn broke, we found more and more.

Only around 80 people survived the ship wreck. The rest perhaps well over 100 either dead or missing.

This type of tragedy should have been avoided, said the governor of Calabria, Roberto Occhiuto.

Sunday, Pope Francis told the faithful in St. Peters Square, I pray for each of them, for the missing and for the other migrants who survived. But thoughts and prayers won't save lives.

Since 2014, more than 20,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean. Escaping war, famine, repression, chaos, and hopelessness.

Increasingly, Europe, including Italy, is taking a hard line on those from the global south fleeing their native lands. In a statement, Italy's right-wing Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni expressed what she called her profound pain at the disaster. But Meloni, rode to power on an anti-immigrant platform. And last week, the Italian parliament approved new laws making it ever more difficult for volunteer groups to carry out rescues at sea.

What Europe can do for those in need has been made vividly clear by its embrace of millions of Ukrainian refugees. An embrace that does not extend to those braving deadly voyages such as these to reach Europe's shores.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.

CHURCH: Still to come, COVID origin theories continue to cause a stir in Washington, but experts say they're still isn't enough information to determine the real cause.

[02:25:04]

We will break down the theories and the debate after the break.

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CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Hong Kong is set to end its COVID mask mandate. A restriction that's been in place from the start of the pandemic. As of Wednesday, masks no longer will be required outdoors, indoors or on public transport. In December Hong Kong ended most of its other mandates including COVID testing for arriving travelers. At the time, chief executive John Lee said officials were confident in their vaccination rate, as well as the level of natural immunity built up in the population.

In the U.S., the Department of Energy's new assessment about the origins of COVID-19 is making waves. Multiple sources in the intelligence community tell CNN the notion of a Chinese lab leak kickstarting the pandemic is still a minority opinion in Washington.

[02:30:00]

It comes as at least three sources say China's Center for Disease Control in Wuhan was studying COVID variants at the time of the initial outbreak. But the Biden Administration maintains there is no official opinion on the matter so far. CNN's Pamela Brown has more now from Washington.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): More than three years after the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. The theory that the virus originated from a lab in Wuhan, China in the spotlight. The Department of Energy now saying in an updated classified report, that it believes with low confidence that the virus accidentally escaped from a lab, but that theory remains a minority opinion within the U.S. intelligence community.

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Some elements of the Intelligence Community have reached conclusions on one side, some on the other a number of them have said they just don't have enough information to be sure.

BROWN (voiceover): Early in the pandemic, many prominent scientists discredited the so-called lab leak theory. One group writing a letter published in The Lancet Medical Journal saying, "We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin." But other medical professionals have long refused to rule it out.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: These kinds of lab leaks happen all the time, actually, even here in the United States, we've had mishaps. And in China, the last six known outbreaks of SARS 1 (PH) have been out of labs.

BROWN (voiceover): Even Dr. Anthony Fauci, the longtime Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, agreed it was possible.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLEGERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It might possibly have been something that Chinese were doing a virus that they isolated in the wild, and we're having it in the lab and then somehow it escaped out. I don't think that happened, but I have an open mind.

BROWN (voiceover): The different professional opinions resulted in a political firestorm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Government Scientists like yourself who favor gain of function research maintain that the disease arose naturally. (PH)

FAUCI: I don't favor gain of function research in Chinese. You're saying things that are not correct.

BROWN (voiceover): According to the Intelligence Community's Assessment, first published in 2021. The origins of the virus will remain elusive until China cooperates with global investigations.

(on camera) Why at this point, do you say it's possible maybe even probable that the virus came from a lab and accidentally leaked out?

JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: The SARS-CoV-2 virus has an ancestral origin and a type of horseshoe bat, that doesn't exist in Wuhan. If this comes from nature, there would have to be some evidence of it coming from nature. Right now, we don't have that evidence.

BROWN (voiceover): Now, House Republicans are demanding more information from the State Department, FBI and DOE on the origins of COVID-19. (on camera) You do believe it's knowable? How so? If China's not cooperating?

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): There's some information that we already have in this other information that I think that we can pursue. That doesn't require China's consent, that can lead us to the proper conclusion.

REP. BRAD WENSTRUP (R-OH): I want to make sure that we are readying ourselves for the next pandemic. If we will and the more we can learn about natural origins and or possible lab leak, then the better off we're going to be.

BROWN (on camera): The top Republicans on the Oversight Committee and the sub-select Committee on COVID. They have sent letters to three agencies, the State Department, the FBI and the Department of Energy, asking for specific information including communications between employees of their agencies, and employees at the Wuhan Virology Institute, as well as the CDC there in Wuhan. Now, the first hearing for that subcommittee on COVID will happen on March 8th, according to a Republican aide. Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

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CHURCH: Just ahead, the voting is done in Africa's largest democracy, but the anger and criticism of how the election was handled is growing, as many complain of voting irregularities. We'll have a live report.

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CHURCH: A former Nigerian president accuses the country's electoral commission of corruption and is calling for a fresh vote in polling places disrupted by violence, or where officials failed to show up for Saturday's election. Complaints of voting irregularities continue to grow as the results slowly trickle in from around the country. Many polling stations still have not uploaded their results more than 24 hours after polls had closed. And CNN's Stephanie Busari, joins me now live from Lagos. So good to see you, Steph. So, election observers are criticizing the planning and lack of transparency. What is the latest on this and of course, the vote count itself?

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SENIOR EDITOR: So, Rosemary, it's loud complaints. And this time not just from the citizens and the candidates, but credible people. It's rare for former president to join the clamor in this instance, as President Olusegun Obasanjo has done. And he's spoken out quite clearly to say that this process is not transparent. And I'm just going to read to you something that he said. He said, "It's no secret that INEC, Independent Nigeria Election Commission officials, at operational level, have been allegedly compromised to make what should have worked not to work, and to revert to manual transmission of results, which is manipulated, and the results doctored." This is unprecedented. A former president speaking out so clearly and so loudly against the electoral process, but everybody's listening apart from the iconic Chairman Mahmood Yakubu, it seems, is insisting that the results must be collated and carry on. They're still announcing these results, that many are saying are not credible and not fair. And the ruling party so far from the states have been announced, is leading in these results have been announced. Even E.U. observers who are usually quite muted in their -- in their observations and cautious. I've said quite clearly that these elections have not been transparent and have not been carried out in a way that it was supposed to carry up.

[02:35:19]

Now, Rosemary, you will remember that. INEC, the Electoral Commission had touted this electoral election portal known as IREP, as the solution to electoral fraud. That was supposed to upload results in real time to this website. But that was not done, and many people are questioning the integrity of this election Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right, Stephanie Busari joining us live from Lagos, many thanks for that report. And thank you for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church, for our international viewers, "WORLD SPORT" is up next. And for our viewers in North America. I'll be back with more news after a short break. Do stick around.

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