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Soon: Biden Nominates Julie Su as Labor Secretary; McCarthy Gives Jan. 6 Defendants Access to Capitol Security Footage; Supreme Court Considers Fate of Biden's Student Loan Relief Plan; Now: Jurors Touring Scene Where Maggie and Paul Murdaugh Were Killed. Aired 9:30- 10a ET

Aired March 01, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I talked to one group of friends who are coming up here to celebrate their buddy's 26th birthday, and at one point, they just had to ditch one of the cars because they needed to get into the bigger truck that could make it all the way up the hill. They were digging it out to try to get out before this system came in today.

So all of that making it very treacherous up there in the mountain roads. They're trying to get supplies up there but they're really asking people to stay away.

And just to put this into perspective of how much snow has fallen here in the Southern California San Bernardino Mountains, they're saying right now it's at about 220 percent of snowpack average for this time of year. Jim and Erica?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Wow.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, it is -- it is really something. It does, it just kind of makes your head spin. Appreciate it, Steph. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, any moment now, President Biden was expected to officially nominate his pick for labor secretary. This of course amid significant attention to the U.S. economy, its labor market, where is it all going? We're going to bring that to you live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:18]

SCIUTTO: Soon, attorneys representing defendants in the January 6th insurrection will be able to view thousands of hours of security footage from inside the Capitol. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy granted them access to those hours of video. McCarthy also facing scrutiny for allowing Fox News host, Tucker Carlson, who has repeatedly expressed doubts about the facts of the January 6th riot before releasing it publicly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you not at all concerned about the fact that Carlson downplayed this attack? You thought it was a very serious attack.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Look, I'm not concerned -- it is a very serious attack.

RAJU: Then why give it to someone who has downplayed it?

MCCARTHY: And that's why I think -- because I think sunshine matters. So I don't care what side of the issue you are on. That's why I think putting it out all to American public, you could see the truth, see exactly what transpired that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The concern there, of course, is will it all be put out?

Joining us now to talk about it, CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Elie, good to see you as always. So we've talked a lot about this decision to give the footage to Tucker Carlson, also getting a lot of attention, though, is this new decision, right, to give attorneys for defendants access to that video. Full disclosure, Elie and I talked about this a little bit last night. You said to me, this is basically the same thing as what would happen during discovery, prosecutors have to make that evidence accessible. Is it that simple in this case?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so, Erica, it's certainly very unusual to have a sitting member of Congress providing troves of information to large groups of criminal defendants. That said, there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. Every prosecutor in every case has an affirmative obligation to hand over all the evidence against the defendant, especially evidence that may be helpful to that defendant. That's an obligation.

I'm sure DOJ is taking seriously by all indications they have satisfied those obligations on these January 6th cases. And every defendant in any case has the right to get that evidence and to do his or her own investigation and gather whatever information they can do. And so, if they're going to Congress, if Congress is making information available to these defendants, they should take advantage of that. The thing that needs to be respected here, though, is the limits on the information that might pose a security risk.

SCIUTTO: We did see the January 6th committee, as I remember it, share evidence it found, interviews, et cetera, with the DOJ in its criminal investigation so members of Congress in that case a special committee sharing information, evidence, I suppose you could describe it. Is this similar? I mean, in other words, is there precedent for this kind of thing?

HONIG: It is similar in a lot of respects. Look, the view of any prosecutor should not be I want all the information, I want the good stuff and don't give it to them, don't give it to the defendants. That's really not the way prosecutors work.

In reality, and again, DOJ under Merrick Garland has done a very good job of this. All the information should be in play. The judge will filter out what's relevant and what's not relevant and the judge may put some restrictions as the judges have done here in some information that may pose a security risk, but by and large, you want a defendant to have this information. Again, it's really unusual that it's coming through the speaker of the House, but there's nothing necessarily improper or illegal about that.

HILL: And what about those security concerns, Elie?

HONIG: Yes, so the judge -- in many of these cases, the judges have said that defendants can review this footage and they can still use the parts of the footage that have been determined by prosecutors to pose a security risk, but that's under what we call a protective order. Meaning, the prosecutors can use it, the defendants can use it, it could become evidence at trial but it's not going to become available as part of the public record. Of course, CNN, I think, is part of a group of media organizations that have sued to get access to all of that video footage, and it will be up to the judge ultimately who gets to see what.

SCIUTTO: I mean, I wonder as a lawyer what effect do you expect this to have on the cases. You already have hundreds of participants in that riot who have already been convicted with video playing a very big role in it, establishing them at the scene, establishing them doing things like attacking police officers or breaking windows in the Capitol building. I mean, is there contrary -- if you have evidence of that on video, what could be the potential effect of other videos? I mean, you know, how -- how could that be exonerating, I guess, is the question.

HONIG: Yes. It's a great question, Jim. I can certainly see the value from the prosecutor's point of view. I mean, a lot of these cases are made on video. Here is this defendant breaking a window, here is this defendant assaulting a police officer. I mean, it's game over.

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where you would look at footage -- surveillance footage and say, aha, that helps the defendant. I mean, maybe just speaking hypothetically here, maybe footage could prove that somebody who you couldn't quite tell who it was, maybe it was another person, arguably maybe there's some sort of larger picture around an assault that a defendant would want to argue he was maybe acting in self-defense. I'm sort of trying to think outside the box here.

[09:40:08]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: But you're right, the value to prosecutors is a lot more obvious and apparent than it would be to defendants but defendants get to make that decision. How do they want to try to use information to defend themselves.

SCIUTTO: That's why we ask lawyers. Elie Honig, thanks so much.

And a note, the second season of Elie's podcast "Up Against the Mob" premieres today.

HILL: Well, this morning, as millions of applications for student loan forgiveness hang in the balance. Several conservative Supreme Court justices seemed to be very clearly skeptical of President Biden's loan relief plan. Yesterday, as you know, justices heard arguments in two cases brought against the Biden administration's program to forgive up to $20,000 per person in federal student loans for those who are eligible.

SCIUTTO: CNN's senior Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic, joins us now. One thing, Joan, that stood out to me was Justice's Roberts leading the way asking about the cost of this. It just struck me as an odd question for a Supreme Court justice. That struck me more as a question for, say, a member of Congress debating a piece of legislation rather than the legality of this. What's the context?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. Good morning, Jim and Erica.

You know, first of all, the costs go to kind of the significance of this program that the justices suggested by the chief's questions and others that it was one that should be left to Congress in explicit manner than the open-ended way that the conservatives say that Congress did for the secretary of education.

Just to remind you, in dispute is a 2003 statute that was passed after 9/11 called the Heroes Act that gave the secretary of education the authority to waive or modify federal student loans. And the Biden administration has -- has used this to try to forgive up to $20,000 for individual borrowers affecting as the chief kept saying, Jim, nearly half a trillion dollars here, and that's why he kept hitting on it because his argument was that with something that substantial, both economically and politically, it should have been explicitly detailed for Congress.

SCIUTTO: Right.

BISKUPIC: Now, what -- just as Elena Kagan stressed to counter that was, look, this law was to address emergencies. It couldn't be explicit about every emergency and every detail of when any kind of loan modification would -- would happen. And she said, you know, that the court is used to dealing with confusing laws and this wasn't one.

So trying to put up a fight to what the conservatives were saying here, but there was an element -- another element that came in here, not just that there was an overreach on the part of the Biden administration that could doom the program, but a question of fairness. The chief justice and Justice Neil Gorsuch and several others kind of talked about just how fair is it to be forgiving the loan balances for people who were able to go to college, when taxpayers who might have not had the opportunity to go to college and not had the earning power that results from it, will not have it. So we will -- we will see a decision later this spring, but a lot hangs in the balance.

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: OK.

HILL: We are going to have to interrupt you, Joan. Thank you for that.

Let's go straight to the White House. President Biden officially introducing his nominee for labor secretary, the current deputy labor secretary, Julie Su. Let's listen in.

(APPLAUSE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to -- I'm going to close my eyes and pretend you were clapping for me.

(LAUGHTER)

Please have a seat if you have one.

I think they like you. That's what I think.

(APPLAUSE)

You see the senator right here? If in fact you are not picked to be the next Secretary of Labor, I will be run out of town.

(LAUGHTER)

First of all, let me say, I don't know -- I see a lot of members of Congress here who are strong -- and, by the way, they've got a full day today. They're supposed to in Baltimore for a -- up in -- for a caucus up there. And I don't want to start reading out names in case some aren't here. But there's a -- you've had overwhelming support in the caucus -- and in both the House and the Senate, I might add.

And I'm joined by Vice President Harris and -- who chairs the House -- White House Task Force on Worker Organization and -- and Empowerment to ensure that every worker -- every worker has a voice and the ability to exercise their sacred right to organize. That's a big deal: the right to organize. You know --

[09:45:00]

(APPLAUSE)

We've had -- we've had no better partner in this effort and so much more that he's done than Marty Walsh from Boston. Marty, stand up, please.

(APPLAUSE)

Marty has several -- has several claims to fame. He's a proud son of Irish immigrants; mayor of Boston; was the -- for the last two years, Secretary of Labor. And I assume he knows something about hockey.

(LAUGHTER)

I asked him if he'd take me with him, but he wouldn't.

(LAUGHTER)

Chris, he thought I'd be the hockey puck. Anyway.

(LAUGHTER)

Look, it matters.

I promised to be the most pro-union President in presidential history.

(APPLAUSE)

I'm going to put this down. And, folks -- thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

The reason --

(APPLAUSE)

-- thank you.

The reason I ran was to rebuild the backbone of this nation -- the middle class -- and grow the economy from the bottom up and the middle out, not from the top down.

Because, look, when, in fact, you build it that way, everybody does well. The rich still do very well. They don't get hurt. It's like -- it's not a punishment, you know? But when it's trickle down, not a whole lot dropped on our kitchen table when I was growing up. Not much trickle there. And we're changing that.

You know, there was a law passed in the early '30s saying that -- not that unions could organize, but we should have more unions. We should have more unions -- encouraging them.

(APPLAUSE)

SCIUTTO: President Biden there introducing the new labor secretary. CNN senior White House correspondent, MJ Lee, at the White House. MJ, Su's appointment comes at a time of intense attention certainly on the labor market for the labor secretary, concerns about whether interest rate rises are going to lead the economy to a hard landing. What's on her plate now going forward?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, Jim, this is a significant nomination for President Biden for a number of reasons.

First and foremost, this is the first cabinet turnover that we have seen in President Biden's White House. Marty Walsh is expected to leave his post as labor secretary later this month so that is just kind of remarkable that over two years this is the first time that we are seeing a cabinet member leave the Biden administration.

And secondly, there is just the historic nature of this nomination, as you know very well, Julie Su, if confirmed, would be the only Asian official serving in a secretary-level position in President Biden's cabinet. We have seen a whole lot of lobbying from Asian lawmakers and others to sort of make good on President Biden's famous promise to make his cabinet as diverse as possible.

And then, as you said, you know, the timing of this is so critical. This nomination comes at a really important moment, not just for the U.S. economy, but for other sort of workforce issues as well. You know, this is an administration and a president who have really made efforts to reach out to labor unions and labor leaders and really foster that relationship, and this president has very much leaned on Marty Walsh to navigate and foster those relationships.

And Julie Su for that reason, because she has been Marty Walsh's deputy, really does enjoy widespread support among union leaders and labor leaders and this is one of the reasons that she was seen for a long time as sort of the shoe-in to get this role. So for a whole bunch of reasons, the historic nature of her nomination and also just for political and economic reasons, this is a significant nomination that the president is making official right now in the East Room.

HILL: Absolutely. MJ, appreciate it. Thank you.

We are keeping a close watch on South Carolina this morning. The jury in the Murdaugh double murder trial is now at the scene of those brutal killings in South Carolina. What the defense is hoping jurors will take away from this visit to the crime scene.

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[09:53:25]

HILL: Right now, the jurors who will soon deliberate and decide whether they believe Alex Murdaugh shot and killed his wife and youngest son are at the scene of their murders.

SCIUTTO: It's a remarkable moment here. The jury is actually touring the family's hunting property pictured there as the defense and prosecution prepare to deliver their closing arguments. Soon, this visit to the scene there at the request of the defense. CNN's Dianne Gallagher outside the courthouse in South Carolina. Dianne, can you tell us exactly what the jury is seeing here and I'm actually curious who is guiding them on this tour.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, Erica, so the jury actually based off of when our CNN producers saw them leave this morning should just now be arriving at Moselle. That is the Murdaugh family property where the murders happened back in 2021.

They are going in essentially law enforcement vans. They are being escorted there by law enforcement and Judge Clifton Newman gave them explicit instructions yesterday before they were dismissed from court that they are not allowed to speak to anybody about this while they're on the trip including other jurors, law enforcement, the attorneys. The only person they can ask questions to or talk to is Judge Newman.

Now the defense wanted them to go to Moselle to see the property themselves because this is a place that we have been discussing. It's where the murders happened to get a feel for how far those dog kennels where the murders happened are -- are from the main home where Alex Murdaugh claims he was when his wife and son were likely shot.

[09:55:00]

The state objected to this visit. The reason being, it's been a while, 20 months since the murders and the judge gave the jury some guidance about that before they left.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE CLIFTON NEWMAN, SOUTH CAROLINA CIRCUIT COURT: Things have changed and most likely have changed. We have different season of the year. This change of circumstances as far as the property is concerned so you have to take that in mind and certainly consider that, but it's still the same location, and I've determined that it would be beneficial to you to be able to observe the scene that everyone has been talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now there will be no media with the jurors when they are visiting the property, although they are allowing a pool media system to go to the property afterward. Jim, Erica, once the jury returns, we will begin closing arguments in this trial.

HILL: All right. Dianne, appreciate it. And just a reminder, you don't want to miss the CNN Primetime special, "Inside The Murdaugh Murders Trial," right here on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.

SCIUTTO: Soon, Attorney General Merrick Garland is set to testify on Capitol Hill for the first time since the new Republican-led Congress was sworn in. The questions he will face from senators coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)