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FOX News Under Fire; Trump Losing Support Among Republican Lawmakers?; Havana Syndrome Investigation Comes Up Empty; Chicago Mayor Loses Primary; FAA Investigates Near Collision; Rail Safety Bill?; Merrick Garland Grilled on Capitol Hill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 01, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Meanwhile, a major move to make a commonly used prescription drug more affordable. Drug company Eli Lilly says it's cutting the price of its most commonly used form of insulin and will cap the out-of-pocket cost at $35.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you tomorrow.

Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello.

I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington. And today on Capitol Hill, Attorney General Merrick Garland is facing a barrage of questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee. He is defending his Justice Department and two special counsel probes and Republican -- amid Republican accusations that he has weaponized the DOJ.

CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is in Washington.

So, Paula, how has the hearing gone so far?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's clear the attorney general wants to highlight the work or the rank and file, the over 100,000 employees of the Justice Department who aren't working on special counsel investigations.

But his first appearance on Capitol Hill this year does come as the Justice Department is overseeing investigations into President Biden and former President Trump and their handling of classified documents, as well as another high-profile investigation into President Biden's son Hunter.

And the attorney general was grilled about why a special counsel is not overseeing the Hunter Biden investigation. Let's take a listen to how he explained that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I promised to leave the matter of Hunter Biden in the hands of the U.S. attorney for the district of Delaware who was appointed in the previous administration.

So, any information like that should have gone or should -- or should have gone to that U.S. attorney's offices and the FBI squad that's working with him. I have pledged not to interfere with that investigation. And I have carried through on my pledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: There you hear him defending this Trump-appointed U.S. attorney who stayed on to continue overseeing this investigation as plenty independent to handle decisions in this matter.

Now, there were many other exchanges, a few of which maybe got under the attorney general's skin. And he's going to be in that seat for likely a few more hours. But I will note, Brianna, there was one moment where it was clear that the attorney general was aligned with committee leadership of both parties.

And that was on the issue of fentanyl, agreeing that what they're currently doing is not working and that they have to do a lot more to protect Americans from fentanyl. The attorney general reminded lawmakers that he can only work with the laws and the resources that he is given by Congress and saying that he would welcome additional resources for that battle.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly needed.

Paula, thank you for that report.

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine is visiting the site of last month's toxic train derailment. DeWine's wife accompanying him on the trip to get updates on the hazardous waste removal there in East Palestine. Also new today, a bipartisan group of senators introducing a new rail safety bill.

I want to bring in CNN's Manu Raju, who is on Capitol Hill for us.

Manu, what is the likelihood that this passes and has an impact on safety?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is just the beginning of the process. It will be a long process in order for it to become law, but it does have bipartisan support, which gives it some momentum as we deal with the narrowly divided Senate that Democrats control and a Republican-controlled House.

Now, on the Senate side, this was led by the two Ohio senators, a senior senator, Democrat from Ohio Sherrod Brown, who is up for reelection next year, the freshman conservative Senator J.D. Vance, along with some support from the Missouri Senator Josh Hawley, backing from Marco Rubio from Florida, as well as two Democratic Pennsylvania senators all backing this measure.

Brown just told me moments ago he expects the White House to get behind this as well. He's still planning to have discussions with the Senate majority leader about scheduling a vote on this. Now, what it would do is essentially try to improve rail safety measures, increase inspections. It would ratchet up fines for mishandling these hazardous materials, try to prevent another disaster like this.

But in talking some Republican senators about this, including the number two, Senator Thune, he made clear that they needed to understand all the facts first before they agree with moving forward on new regulations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I mean, I think -- I think we just have to look at what the causes are. NTSB still hasn't filed their report. And they have been investigating it. So let's get the facts and the information and then figure out what, if anything, needs to done or changed.

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): I'm sure that we will have some Republicans who don't like the legislation. I suspect we're going to have a lot of Republicans to do like legislation. When you have 1,000 train crashes a year, you have got to do something maybe to promote the safety a little bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, that last senator, Senator Vance, expecting enough Republicans to ultimately get on this -- on board, but it will take time to build support, to build a coalition.

And can it get through the House? Speaker Kevin McCarthy was noncommittal when asked about whether Congress needs to move forward on any real safety legislation, telling reporters, we have got to make sure that the community gets cleaned up. He said: "I want to make sure I understand everything that has happened before we get -- before we jump forward."

[13:05:07]

So, he is still -- wants to understand everything that's happening here. And we potentially could get some more information too, Brianna, next week. The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee will have a hearing where the CEO of Norfolk Southern will testify before that committee. And we expect the EPA also to testify before a House panel later in March -- Brianna.

KEILAR: That will be a very important hearing next week.

All right, Manu, thank you.

And to the nation's airports now. The FAA is investigating yet another close call involving a commercial airliner. It is the fifth near- collision in just two months. This one happened two nights ago at Boston's Logan Airport. Air traffic controllers managed to stop a private jet from taking off and running into a JetBlue flight that was descending to land. The planes came within 565 feet of each other. Just a week ago, there

was a close call in Burbank, California. The NTSB says the crew of a Mesa Airlines flight had to abort their landing right as a SkyWest flight was taking off from the same runway.

And just a few weeks earlier, there was a near-collision in Honolulu. The United 777 crossed the runway where a smaller cargo plane was landing. Days before that, an American Airlines flight at JFK in New York crossed in front of a Delta flight that was trying to take off. And then there was the close call in Austin, Texas. A FedEx plane almost landed on top of a Southwest Airlines flight.

I want to bring in CNN safety analyst David Soucie. He is a former FAA safety inspector.

I mean, David, we look at these numbers, five runway incursions in just two months, which is a lot when you look at recent years. How worrisome and how unusual is it to see this?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It's very unusual.

And I think partly it has to do with the fact that there's been such an increase in traffic just over the last six months to a year after this post-COVID. Kind of travel has increased again. We're back up to the numbers before COVID came out.

But part of the problem is that each airport is getting more and more overloaded. And the response to that is to let more airplanes take off. And that's not the right way to go.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, that's very alarming. The FAA says it's conducting a sweeping review of its safety practices.

What do you think the solution is here, especially considering what you just said?

SOUCIE: Well, I think the biggest solution is to start looking at the pacing, the time at which they allow airplanes to get onto the runway.

The second thing that they need to do is, they need to implement something that Congress approved a long time ago, which was the incident reporting. In other words, there's a way to monitor these aircraft on the aircraft -- or on the airports exactly where they are. Only about 50 percent of that, the airports out there have this system in place to help their visualization to know that there is an airplane on the runway or not.

And those are things that have to be implemented. Congress can say, hey, we're going to do this and approve it, but then getting the appropriated funds to actually finish those projects, that's what needs to be done. And we need an administrator in place to do that.

KEILAR: The traffic is back up, as you mentioned, but some airlines and airports have struggled with staffing issues. That happened. We saw that during and also after the pandemic.

Do you see any connection there?

SOUCIE: I really don't. I don't see any direct connection with staffing issues.

I see that every one that is -- the incidents I have looked at so far, which does not include this one today, necessarily, in depth, is that the staffing at the airports can be the issue, the air traffic control staffing, not necessarily the airlines themselves. So they're isolated from these COVID financial struggles or employment struggles.

So that's the focus that needs to be put on this, not on the airlines. The airlines are doing what they what they need to do. They're just responding to what air traffic is telling them to do.

KEILAR: You mentioned FAA leadership.

And we saw Phil Washington, who is the president's embattled pick to lead the FAA, facing some tough questioning in his nomination hearing today. You have called for this stronger leadership for some time now. Is he the right person to lead?

SOUCIE: I'm not convinced of that yet. I know that he's under a lot of scrutiny, because he doesn't have a lot of aviation background.

But, in the past, I have talked a lot about the fact that they will put someone in there because they were an airline captain, or because they ran an airline, or whatever. That's a whole different world than trying to manage the Federal Aviation Administration.

It's all going to be about his ability to put a staff in place that can prioritize safety as the number one thing. And that's, I think, what's most important, and he did that at DIA, at the airport in Denver. He went into Denver. There were projects that were bad. There were injuries and things happening within those projects. And he put in some very strong safety measures to make sure that that airport went forward the way that it's supposed to.

We finally see those things implemented now. So I think that, in that realm, he's good at managing those things. What's going to be hard is for him to overcome the fact that he really does doesn't have any aviation-related experience.

[13:10:02]

So, I think Congress is going to beat him up on that.

KEILAR: Yes, they certainly are.

David, thank you for your expertise on this. We do appreciate it.

And, in Chicago, we are following a once-in-a-generation political upset, Democratic Mayor Lori Lightfoot losing her bid for a second term in yesterday's election. It's the first time in more than 30 years that Chicago residents voted an incumbent mayor out of office. Lightfoot conceded last night.

And now the top two candidates will advance to a run-off.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Chicago for us.

Omar, this was quite something to witness here. How much of this is a referendum on issues like crime and the economy, and how much of it is just that voters may not like Lightfoot?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, she did have friction with people she worked with at points. And it didn't always translate well to voters.

She also had a reputation of being very tough, which was good in some circles, not so good in others. But she and I spoke halfway through her administration at that point. And she told me very clearly, if people don't feel safe, then literally nothing else matters. And this election felt like the embodiment of that.

She was the first black woman to be elected mayor here in Chicago, the first openly gay mayor, but now she is set to become the first full- term incumbent mayor in 40 years here in Chicago not to win a reelection, on the other side of what she's described as once-in-a- generation, a once-in-a-lifetime set of challenges, from the peak of a pandemic, to jumps in gun violence.

Take a listen to some of what she said as she ultimately conceded the race last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORI LIGHTFOOT (D), MAYOR OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: I am grateful to the millions of Chicagoans who came together as we made tough decisions, saw the struggles of our front-line workers and beat back a deadly pandemic.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Now, as for the two candidates who are projected to move to the next round, it's essentially a battle between the police union and the teachers union.

Paul Vallas, a former head of schools here in Chicago and Philadelphia, backed by the police union, and Brandon Johnson, a Cook County commissioner, former teacher backed by the teachers union, take a listen some of what they said in celebrating their projected victories last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL VALLAS (D), CHICAGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: We will make Chicago the safest city in America.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BRANDON JOHNSON (D), CHICAGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: A few months ago, they said they didn't know who I was.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

JOHNSON: Well, if you didn't know, now you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Johnson obviously excited, as was Vallas.

And Johnson talked about how he wanted to end the tale of two cities, so to speak here, where one side of the city gets investment, and another side doesn't. The run-off election is now April 4, because, as expected, none of these candidates got 50 percent of the vote.

But April 4 is when we are going to figure out who the next mayor of Chicago will be.

KEILAR: It is going to be quite the next month there.

Omar Jimenez in Chicago, thank you for that report.

And just into the CNN NEWSROOM, the U.S. intelligence community has not been able to link any foreign adversaries to that mysterious ailment that has come to be known as Havana Syndrome.

CNN's Kylie Atwood is with us on this story.

Kylie, this is very important. We have been talking about this for years at this point. What are you learning?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so what we're learning, according to an intelligence community assessment, is that all of the cases of these Havana Syndrome that the intelligence community has studied really rigorously over the last two years, none of those cases can be linked to a foreign adversary's involvement.

And so, therefore, this assessment that the Intelligence Committee is coming out with today is saying that it is unlikely that a foreign adversary was involved in these incidents. It is not in line with what some folks thought, that there was a foreign adversary, a country like Russia or China, who could have been engaged in these attacks on U.S. officials worldwide.

The intelligence community is saying, no, that's not the case. That is not what we have found. And what they did here is, they looked at all of these incidents really closely. They looked at all of the factors surrounding where these incidents were happening, and what was happening on the streets, what was happening inside the walls, all of those things.

And when they extrapolated out all of those different factors, they didn't find a foreign adversary connected to any of those incidents. I also think it's important to note that they found that it's correct -- that it's -- excuse me -- unlikely that there is a foreign adversary who has a mechanism to actually have carried out these attacks, these incidents. So what they're saying is they don't think that there is a country

that has the capability to have carried out this wide range of incidents that had been reported widely known as Havana Syndrome since 2016, since they were -- first arose in Havana, Cuba.

[13:15:00]

KEILAR: So they are saying what they know it is not. They're not doubting that this has happened to so many people, though, are they, or what are they saying about that?

ATWOOD: No.

No, they're not doubting that there are officers, intelligence officers, U.S. diplomats around the globe who have experienced something here. But what they're saying is that there's no one reason for their experiences.

Instead, there are a number of reasons, environmental factors, health factors, social factors, that could have contributed, but what they are definitively saying right now, it's unlikely that a foreign adversary was behind this campaign.

KEILAR: All right, Kylie Atwood live for us at the State Department, thank you.

The House Republican who wanted Donald Trump to declare martial law to stay in power and is now backing a Trump opponent, South Carolina's Ralph Norman endorsing his state's former Governor Nikki Haley now for president, and he's not the only staunch Trump supporter looking elsewhere. We will have details on that ahead.

Plus, closing arguments under way in the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial after jurors visited the murder scene.

And police find a man carrying around an ancient mummy in a bag. If you think things can't get weirder than that, just wait. We will have more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:34]

KEILAR: They are keeping their options open.

Some of Donald Trump's most loyal allies in the House tell CNN they're not ready to commit to the former president's 2024 bid, and others seem to be embracing his potential opponents.

Here's what House Republicans recently told CNN's Manu Raju about all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): We have got to have someone that can appeal to independent voters, not just Republicans, not just Democrats.

RAJU: You don't think Trump can win?

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): I see it being uphill. Swing voters and independent voters also look at policy, but they also look at comportment and temperament. And they -- and I will just say they do not like the name-calling.

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I supported him when nobody else did the first time. But I also know that the reality is, I'm running for office too. So -- and I have never been a big believer in endorsements. I always say you pick up -- you don't pick up friends, just enemies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, let's talk about this with CNN political commentator Ana Navarro with us and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein.

It's really interesting to hear what these members are saying, Ron. What do you make about as they keep their distance from Trump?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, everything old is new again.

I mean, in 2016, Trump had extraordinarily little support among the leadership class of the Republican Party. Fewer than a dozen House members endorsed him at any point in that race. He was outraised financially by people like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, and groups like the Club for Growth and the Koch network of donors all opposed him.

He's been president in the middle, but, largely, he's back in the same position here heading into 2024. The Club for Growth is having a retreat this weekend not far from Ana in Florida, where they have pointedly excluded Trump from the invitation list. The Koch network says it wants to oppose him.

And once again, you see very few elected Republicans aligning behind him. The question is whether it will have any more impact this time than it did last time. And one big -- there are two big differences. One is that argument that you heard from some of those members there, more doubts about whether Trump can win a general than were there in 2016 and, secondly, the potential that Ron DeSantis could unify the forces of the party opposed to Trump more effectively than any other alternative did in 2016.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, Ana, they did worry if he could win in 2016 as well. So I wonder, when you're listening to them, and you're looking at these dynamics, is this like 2016 all over again? Or do you see differences here?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, it is eerily similar to 2016.

And, frankly, I think Donald Trump does very well and did very well in 2016 as the underdog and as the anti-establishment candidate, which was an amazing role for him, because he has been elite. He has been part of the establishment his entire life. He was basically born into it.

What has been astounding to me and surprising is that, even though he declared himself a candidate early, it hasn't even stopped people who worked for him like Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo, Pence, or people who owe him their career, like Ron DeSantis, from indicating that they are too interested in running.

Nikki Haley has basically told her former boss, Donald Trump, hey, old geezer, get off the stage. It's -- you're past your time. You're past your prime. It's time for a new generation. Yes, she's hitting Joe Biden with that, but she's also hitting Donald Trump on his age.

And so I think that's very surprising. I'm watching very closely what's happening here in my neck of the woods in Miami-Dade. The Cuban Americans have been incredibly loyal to Donald Trump, but they're also incredibly loyal to Ron DeSantis. And I'm going to see how they behave, much more so than I care about congressional endorsements, because I think, as Ron said, there were veteran politicians in 2016 who had long lists of endorsements.

And that and $1 might get them a cup of coffee at a McDonald's.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly.

And speaking, Ron, of Ron DeSantis, he's looking obviously at a 2024 run. And when you look at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, last year, he was there. Skips it this year. A lot of candidates, potential candidates, have decided to skip it. What do you make of this?

[13:25:00]

BROWNSTEIN: Well, first of all, DeSantis in general is considered someone who kind of marches to his own beat, and really isn't that familiar to a lot of the kind of the leadership institutions in the Republican Party.

I mean, I think CPAC has been devalued among Republicans, in part because of the controversies around its leadership, but also because it is seen as not necessarily representing the broad spectrum of conservative voters, more kind of a vanguard.

DeSantis, though, very much does seem to be positioning himself in a way to appeal to those voters or at least the FOX News audience. I mean, he really does -- he is really leaning almost infinitely into an endless series of culture wars that are aimed largely at Trump-style voters. I mean, he is he is basically positioning himself as Trumpism without Trump for voters who dislike the personality of Trump.

And the question I think that leaves open is whether there's ultimately room for a third top-tier candidate who has a more optimistic and inclusive message that might appeal to a broader range, particularly of college-educated Republican voters, who didn't like Trump in 2016, like him even less in '24, and may not be entirely enthused about yet another culture warrior as his replacement.

KEILAR: Yes, the controversy you mentioned around the leadership is the CPAC's chair, Matt Schlapp, is facing a lawsuit alleging sexual misconduct.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

KEILAR: And, Ana, that is not stopping certainly some people from going to CPAC, right?

Kari Lake is headlining the Ronald Reagan Dinner. It's a high-profile dinner at CPAC. I mean, what does that say to you that she is a face of this conference?

NAVARRO: Well, look, the leadership of CPAC, as you have just mentioned and as Ron made reference to, not only are they under fire for being accused of groping the groin of a former Herschel Walker staffer, but they're also biased for Trump and his ilk, right, which includes Kari Lake.

Let's remember that Matt Schlapp and his wife, Mercedes, for worked at the White House, became very relevant, very well-known and wealthy thanks to Donald Trump. So they owe him a great deal. And they have been incredibly loyal to him. So why would a Ron DeSantis show up to a place that's probably already biased and in the tank for Donald?

KEILAR: Yes, certainly, it would factor into his calculus, you would think, for sure.

Ana and Ron, thank you so much for the discussion. I do appreciate it.

A $1.6 billion lawsuit against FOX could just be the beginning. A top business school professor who has advised U.S. presidents and hundreds of CEOs tells CNN more lawsuits and even an SEC investigation could be ahead for the FOX Corporation after Dominion's massive defamation lawsuit has uncovered evidence that executives and top talent at the right-wing network knowingly pushed lies about the 2020 election.

CNN senior media reporter Oliver Darcy has this story.

Oliver, what's the outlook not just for FOX, but for FOX proper? Could the company be in jeopardy?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: I think that's the real question, Brianna.

There's a -- there's a real question actually about who's going to be held accountable. Where's the accountability for allowing these lies to be knowingly peddled on this network to the viewers? And that's when the FOX board comes in, because this is a publicly traded company.

There should be some semblance of like a responsible corporate governance in place. And, right now, the question is, where is the FOX board? When I was talking to this Yale professor, Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, he was saying that they have a responsibility to step in now and clean up this mess.

He said that being silent -- he actually named Paul Ryan. He said Paul Ryan has been cowardly, ineffective and immoral by not raising this issue. More broadly. I will read part of what he told me.

He said: "The duties of loyalty and diligence are not to the management, but to the owners, which are the shareholders. By silently going along with misconduct about which they are aware, old directors, including Paul Ryan, are guilty of complicit -- complicity through their complacency." Tongue-twister there.

And so the question now is, what are they going to do? He raised the possibility that executives, perhaps even FOX News executive Suzanne Scott, who heads the network, could be removed or should be removed from the board. And Rupert Murdoch, doing one of his depositions, I found it to be a revealing comment.

He actually said -- I will read to you -- he said: "I appointed Ms. Scott to the job, and I delegate everything to her," effectively kind of saying, look, she's the one in charge here. And so, if there's any wrongdoing, it falls on her shoulders.

So it will be interesting to see whether people like her manage to survive this ever-growing scandal.

KEILAR: Yes, complicity through complacency, it's hard to argue with, certainly, a sentiment like that.

Oliver, thank you so much for that.

[13:30:00]