Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Michigan A.G. Says, FBI Says I was Target of Plot to Kill Jewish Government Officials; Judge in Murdaugh Murder Trial Dismisses Juror for Discussing Case; Today, Man Accused of Hiding Explosives in Luggage in Court. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 02, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The top of the hour this Thursday, I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

New this morning, CNN learning details about a very disturbing plot. The FBI says it was aimed at killing Jewish-elected officials in Michigan. Among those targeted, the state's attorney general, Dana Nessel. The suspect could be in court as early as today. We are going to walk you through what we know, just ahead.

Plus, breaking news in the double murder trial of disgraced former Attorney Alex Murdaugh, the judge announcing this morning a juror has been removed after allegedly discussing the case with people outside the court, all of this as the defense has just begun its closing argument.

SCIUTTO: And today, a Pennsylvania man is expected in court after investigators say he hid explosives inside his luggage on a flight destined for Orlando, the latest on that case including the suspect's long criminal history.

We do begin though in Michigan where police arrested a man is accused of plotting kill Jewish-elected officials, multiple officials, in that state.

CNN's Polo Sandoval and former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe joining us now. Polo, let's begin with what we know about the suspect and what led to his arrest.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, guys, good morning. So, we have been digging for more beyond just what's already in these seven pages that have been laid out by the federal investigators, more on what we could potentially learn from A.G. Nessel at this point saying that she won't comment beyond. She has already taken to Twitter sharing earlier this morning after being notified by the FBI, in fact, I could read you the tweet that was part of her announcement earlier this morning, which she first learned about this saying that she has been notified by the FBI when she first learned about this shocking potential threat here.

She confirming that she was the target of a heavily armed defendant in this matter. The A.G. then goes on to write, it is my sincere hope that the federal authorities take this offense just as seriously as my hate crimes and domestic terrorism unit takes plots to murder elected officials that unit recently launched by the attorney general here.

Nessel referring to Jack Eugene Carpenter III, he's a man from rural Michigan that investigators say, first made on to FBI's radar on February the 17th when he took to Twitter issuing a death threat to Jewish Michigan officials, specifically writing on his social media that he's, quote, heading back to Michigan, threatening to carry out the punishment of death to anyone that is Jewish in the Michigan government if they don't leave or confess.

The very next day, the FBI then working with Michigan State Police, working to track him down to Texas, eventually made contact with his mother who then shared with investigators that he had potential access to three pistol pistols, a 12-gauge shotgun and at least two hunting rifles, and then the investigators quickly tracking him down to the Fort Worth area.

We do know that he is scheduled to appear in court very soon and, of course, trying to find out a little bit more about who this man is.

HILL: In terms of what we are trying to learn about who this man is, and as I understand it, there was a protection order against him, he had been previously arrested. Not clear what that arrest was for. What else at this point, knowing what we know now, what else will investigators be looking at?

SANDOVAL: Well, certainly his past. I just got off the phone a few moments ago with authorities there in Michigan, as I try to actually get my hands on that order, which was signed on February the 9th. We know that he was arrested this past December, charged with assault, also had at least three handguns that were registered with the state of Michigan and also the FBI quickly found out that Michigan State Police were already even in contact with him and investigating him as well for alleged handgun theft. So, this is somebody who clearly had a history with state investigators, and now that he had made it on the FBI's radar, they are certainly working together to try to find out more as he remains in custody.

SCIUTTO: Andy, the FBI has for years said that domestic violent extremism is the biggest terror threat in this country. It's not the first plot we've seen in recent months and years targeting specifically Jewish officials, citizens, synagogues. What is the state of that threat in this country?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Jim, this is right in the wheelhouse of what the FBI and Director Wray have told us that they thing is the most dangerous, the most concerning threat that they face on the counterterrorist side, and that is the threat from domestic violent extremists, predominantly lone offenders who are motivated by racial animus, they're motivated by anti-Semitic feelings, by anti-immigrant feelings, charged with sometimes with political grievance and then motivated to act violently on their own. So, this guy fits that picture perfectly as someone who is -- you know, he is heavily armed, he might be mentally unstable, but nevertheless, has decided to act out his animus, his grievance towards the Jewish leaders in Michigan.

HILL: And what are you expecting, Andy, that we could learn in terms of more today and where do you think the focus is at this point?

MCCABE: Well, there is no question, Erica, what the FBI is doing today, since they did not have really any awareness of this guy, according to the reporting, until the reporting of February 17th, they are doing a deep dive to understand who is he, where is he from, who does he associate with, who does he communicate with. They are no doubt looking at his Twitter account, any other social media he might have to understand more about his motivations and also any planning that he may have been involved in, who exactly was he targeting. It seems with the victim notification to the attorney general in Michigan, the FBI already has some specific awareness of folks that he may have been targeting or planning to interact with or to act out violently towards. So, they are warning those people and trying to develop everything they can about this guy.

HILL: Yes, disturbing news, to say the least, but I really appreciate you both being here to help us walk through it. Andrew McCabe, Polo Sandoval, thank you.

We are also following some breaking news out of South Carolina at the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial. Defense attorneys for Murdoch now delivering their closing arguments, they started just a few moments ago, started a little bit later than planned, that's because the judge actually dismissed a juror this morning for allegedly talking about the case outside of the courtroom.

SCIUTTO: Yes, quite a moment for that to happen.

To CNN National Correspondent Dianne Gallagher, she is outside of the courthouse. And, Diane, it is not the first juror. There were other jurors that had to leave, COVID among them. I mean, walk us through what's happening right now, how long you expect the closing arguments to take and who stepped in to fill that juror's spot.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's talk about that juror being dismissed this morning, to begin with. We are down to just one alternate juror at this point. So, five of the original 12 have been replaced with alternates.

This was a surprise this morning. The judge came in and announced that they had been having interviews with individuals as well as the juror herself about any discussions that she may have had with other people about the case.

Now the judge said that the juror denied that she had discussed the case, but they said that they have determined, after other interviewers, that the juror had contact or discussions concerning the case with at least three individuals. Now, they said it does not appear that the discussion was that extensive but it did involve the juror offering her opinion on evidence presented at this trial. He brought her into the room, dismissed her from the case. There was a bit of an odd moment when he asked if she had anything left back in the juror room, and she told them she had a dozen eggs back there that she needed to retrieve.

And then we got into, after bringing that juror and the alternate to serve on the panel, the closing arguments from the Defense Attorney Jim Griffin. And we spoke last hour about what we anticipated that this would involve almost exactly as we suspected right now. They are going through what reasonable doubt means, telling those jurors, if you have any hesitation, that it could be reasonable. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM GRIFFIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Some amongst you, when you read in the paper that Alex Murdaugh was charged with the murders of his wife and son, that you thought, oh, good, they got him. But those opinions and each of you when you filled out your questionnaire agreed and affirmed that you would leave those at the door of the courthouse, and that you would decide this case solely on the evidence. And that is what the law requires. And we will begin -- the law also requires you to presume him innocent of these charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, Griffin said that he does not anticipate that his closing argument is going to take as long as the prosecution did but does plan to go through the evidence. Jim, Erica, the state then does get a chance to do a reply closing as well.

SCIUTTO: Interesting.

HILL: Dianne, I appreciate it. Never a dull moment for you there, Dianne. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now to discuss, Civil Rights Attorney Areva Martin. Areva, good to see you this morning. So, let's look at where we are in this moment, the defense now starting its closing argument. The prosecution's went on for four hours yesterday. That was after the site visit to the site of the murders. I wonder if this isn't good for defense this morning to be starting with this fresh jury after what was likely a pretty long day yesterday.

[10:10:07]

AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes. Jurors, Erica, are real people, and they get tired, they get fatigued. And a four-hour closing argument, by all standards, is a very long closing argument. Now, I know the prosecution felt like they needed to hammer home the point out Murdoch being a liar and they needed to really go through that evidence to establish a timeline. But you have to be sensitive to people's attention span. You don't want to lose your jury. You want to hit them hard with your argument, but you want to leave them thinking about the most salient points of your argument and not being so overwhelmed that they're on sensory overload.

SCIUTTO: So, defense has now begun its closing argument, and as expected, zeroing in on that fact of our judicial system, that all they have to do is prove a reasonable doubt. What will you be listening for from them in court today to get to that point, to establish that reasonable doubt?

MARTIN: Yes. I think, Jim, they are going to really hammer in on this alternative theory, the alternative theory that was put forth by their expert witness during the last day of the presentation of their case, and that is a theory that there were two shooter, that there was no way that this could have been done by Alex as one person, that there had to be two individuals at the kennel on the night that these murders took place.

And I think they are also going to really talk about how the evidence presented by the prosecution may be compelling as it relates to these financial fraud claims that have been made against Alex Murdaugh, but they don't really establish that he committed these heinous murders. And I think they're going to keep hitting on, yes, he may be a liar and, yes, he may have stolen money, he has admitted to lying, but the evidence just does not add up as it relates to the two murders.

HILL: Obviously, we heard the exact opposite, of course, from the prosecution in its closing argument, as expected, yesterday. What was interesting is we spoke with a former prosecutor in South Carolina this morning who said that she felt four hours, though it may have been, it was a really strong closing argument. She feels that the evidence was absolutely there to bring the case that they proved it. Would you agree?

MARTIN: I would expect a former prosecutor to say that. I would agree with that. I would agree with that and I am not surprised with that rendition of what she heard. No doubt, it was a very compelling argument. I will give the prosecution that. But there are still holes in this case, and all you need is one juror to feel like the prosecutor has not convinced her or him beyond reasonable doubt that the murder occurred in the way that the prosecution has alleged.

And, look, we still don't have an eyewitness, we don't have the murder weapons, we don't have the bloody clothes, and even though circumstantial evidence can be compelling and can be enough to convict, there are going to be some jurors, I believe, at least one or two, that may be thinking, I need more, I need more to convict someone who may be spending the rest of their life in jail.

SCIUTTO: Well, it is going to the jurors very soon, the final moments of this trial. Areva Martin, thanks so much.

Another case we are following today, a Pennsylvania man accused of hiding explosives in checked luggage, and scheduled to appear in court today. The court documents say that Marc Muffly's suitcase triggered an alarm at Lehigh Valley Airport earlier this week. Inside, TSA officers found powder concealed with plastic wrap consistent with commercial grade fireworks. HILL: CNN's Danny Freeman is live in Allentown, Pennsylvania, this morning. So, what more do we know about the suspect both in terms of what was found in his luggage and who he is?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica and Jim, we are learning more about the suspect, including some of his past experiences with the law enforcement, and there's a criminal history there, but I will get to that in a second.

In terms of the basis of this cases, what we know so far, Marc Muffly, 40 years old, he's from Lansford, Pennsylvania, it's a little less than an hour away from Lehigh Valley International Airport we are right now. And, again, he was the one that the FBI said he put this explosive allegedly into the suitcase and tried to check it onto a flight headed to Orlando back on Monday.

But, you know the story, this bag did not get very far, TSA flagged it, they looked at it, and I will tell you a little bit of what exactly was discovered in there. You said it, it was that small capsule that had powder consistent with, quote, commercial grade fireworks, there was also a can of butane, a lighter, a pipe with some white residue on it, a wireless drill and two outlets taped together.

The federal agents saw all of that. A bomb technician saw all of that, in fact, and said this is a significant risk to the aircraft and to passengers and that is when everything stopped there.

Now, I should say, the bag actually had a luggage tag with Muffly's name on it. That was how the airport was able to read Muffly's name over the P.A. system here. And then we saw on security camera in this criminal complaint, there is a still image from the security footage of him then leaving the airport once his name came out over the loudspeaker system here.

[10:15:07]

The FBI was able to apprehend him that night on Monday.

But I wanted to say, I have mentioned this earlier, Muffly has faced some criminal charges here in Pennsylvania before, but they have not been at this level of more intense federal charges. There have been some accusations of a possession of a controlled substance, harassment and minor theft as well. But, of course, now, he is facing these federal charges of possessing an explosive in an airport and also attempting to place an explosive on a plane. He will be in court at 1:30 today in Allentown.

HILL: All right. Danny Freeman, I appreciate it, thank you.

Just moments ago, Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaking about his unexpected meeting on the G20 sidelines, speaking face-to-face with his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, the first time they've done so since before Russia invaded Ukraine. What Blinken says he told the foreign minister in that moment.

SCIUTTO: Plus, just disturbing developments out of Iran, reports there that hundreds of the schoolgirls across the country have been poisoned. There are videos to back this up. We're going to have details on the ongoing investigation.

And rare bipartisan agreement on Capitol Hill that something must be done to stem the rise in fentanyl overdoses. I'm going to speak to someone who is dealing with the crisis. The U.S. attorney from the Southern District of California joins us ahead on what's working and what's not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

HILL: Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke in the last hour at the G20 summit in New Delhi, and in his remarks by addressing his meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. That meeting comes amid increasingly high tensions, not just over the war in Ukraine, of course, but over Russia's suspension of the New START nuclear arms reduction treaty. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: I told the foreign minister what I and so many others said last week at the United Nations and what so many G20 foreign ministers said today, end this war of aggression, engage in meaningful diplomacy that can produce a just and durable peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow. We, of course, have the U.S. characterization of this conversation. What more can you tell us about the Russian characterization?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim. Well, the Russians are sort of trying to play this down. It was quite interesting, because shortly after this meeting took place and after we had gotten initial reports that the two had spoken in Delhi, the Russians came out, this in the form of the spokeswoman of the foreign minister, Maria Zakharova. And she said, yes, this had happened, it was actually Secretary of State Blinken who came up to Sergey Lavrov and said he wanted to talk. She also acknowledged that the meeting only took about ten minutes.

And then it basically happened on the sidelines. This was not some sort of formal meeting, some sort of planned meeting, she also said there were absolutely no agreements reached either. At the same time, of course, we heard the secretary of the state there say that they did touch on some pretty important topics, at least pretty important topics from the U.S. vantage point, obviously speaking about at the fate of Paul Whelan, who the U.S. says is wrongfully detained here in Russia. The U.S. saying that there is a substantial proposal put forward by the U.S. to get the release of Paul Whelan and that they think that the Russian should really act upon that. Then, of course, you also have the New START treaty, which the U.S. just in the past couple of weeks since Vladimir Putin announced that the Russians were suspending, it the U.S. has really been telling the Russians they need to get back into compliance. The Russians are sort of dangling that out there, saying they could get back into compliance, they could unsuspend their participation in the treat, but they want the concessions from the U.S. first.

And, of course, that war on Ukraine, that was one of the big topics there in Delhi, anyway, and the G20 nations, they failed to reach an agreement on a consensus, sort of wording, condemning that war in Ukraine simply because there are obviously different factions there in the G20 with the Russians and Chinese, of course, on one side of that equation.

Nevertheless, of course, the U.S. making that point, and I think it was important for Secretary of State Blinken to come up to Sergey Lavrov and tell him that. And this was the first time that the two actually spoke one another since before the war in Ukraine started, since January of 2022 in Geneva.

HILL: Yes, important indeed. Fred, I appreciate it, thank you.

There is growing concern in Iran on the heels of reports that hundreds of schoolgirls, actually nearly 1,000, have been poisoned nationwide.

SCIUTTO: And Iranian lawmaker says that nearly 900 students have been treated for poisonings over the past three months.

CNN Chief International Investigative Correspondent Nima Elbagir joins us now. Nima, the State Department calling these reports very disturbing, of course, this on the heels of months of protests there, in which the public authorities have treated protesters often with great violence. What more do we know about these poisonings and who may be responsible?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, despite the fact that Iranian officials are finally beginning to characterize these incidents as poisoning, those who we're speaking to on the ground say that they are being told not to speak to the media. Some brave students though have communicated with CNN and one of them described to us the chaos that took over after one of these poisoning incidents. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a terrible situation. Girls had been falling on the floor and were crying. Some were unable to walk, really didn't want to leave one another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELBAGIR: Parents, as I am sure you can imagine, are absolutely frantic. There is footage coming out of Iran that's going viral where one woman was pulled back by officials by her head scarf as she sought to try and get answers, going essentially toe-to-toe with regime officials, causing a lot of upset and controversy inside of Iran, despite the regime's stranglehold on much of the mediums of communication.

[10:25:07]

Regime officials have not come out and said that they are planning to look into not just those who felt that they could treat that mother that way in that moment of crisis but into the investigating what these things are.

If you speak to these schoolgirls, Jim and Erica, they believe very strongly that these incidents of poisoning are linked to the fact that so many schoolgirls took part in the protests, that so many of the schoolgirls came out to demanded their basic freedoms.

SCIUTTO: Listen, we have seen a lot of violence there, right? I mean, these are hard questions that deserve answers. And I'll tell you, folks at home, you should watch some of the videos of this. It's alarming to see.

Nima Elbagir, thanks so much for documenting it.

Still ahead, the fight against fentanyl, the U.S. attorney representing one of the most effective areas in the U.S. is going to join us to discuss what he is seeing, give us some insight as to what works and what doesn't.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]