Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Greek PM Blames "Tragic Human Error" For Train Collision; Ukraine Clings On In Bakhmut Despite Relentless Russian Attacks; Israelis Protests Governments Move To Weaken Judiciary. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired March 02, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:00:25]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again from Studio 4, CNN's world headquarters in Atlanta. Coming up. With the official death toll from the train coalition in Greece continuing to rise, grief is giving way to anger and a demand for answers.
Just two months in office and Israel's far right wing government facing an unprecedented number of challenges on multiple fronts.
At a CNN exclusive, Iran's foreign minister sits down with our own Christiane Amanpour. You'll hear that full conversation this hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN Newsroom with John Vause.
VAUSE: Within the past few minutes, the official death toll from a head on train collision increase ticked upward. Now standing at 43. There has been an outpouring of grief and anger after authorities blamed human error for the crash.
Scuffles broke out in Athens where this ill-fated journey began. Police find tear gas at protesters gathered outside the Hellenic train headquarters. The Greek Prime Minister visited the wreckage near the city of Larissa, excuse me, where a freight train and passenger train traveling on the same track collided.
The Greek transportation minister has resigned partly over an aging rail network he described as falling way short of current international standards. The head of the Hellenic railways organization also resigned and authorities have arrested Larissa train station manager. That's how I want to say.
The government has declared three days of national mourning. Flowers are being placed at the train station in Pilnanikya (ph) where the passengers journey was meant to end.
The sadness has been felt across Europe with flags at EU lowered to half-staff. Now to CNN's Nada Bashir with the report from near the wreckage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (on camera): Well across Greece there is a real sense of devastation. You can see behind me there is still a heavy police presence, fire brigades and other emergency response teams. They are expected to continue working into the night as part of that recovery effort.
And of course, the investigation into what caused that deadly train collision on Wednesday morning is still ongoing.
BASHIR (voiceover): A fireball ignites a passenger train in Greece carrying more than 350 people colliding head on with a freight train killing dozens. In the aftermath, debris and carriages scattered across tracks.
KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What we're experiencing today is very, very difficult as a country. We are talking about an unspeakable tragedy. Our thoughts today are first and foremost with the relatives of the victims.
BASHIR: The crash happened shortly before midnight, local time, when the passenger train on its way from Athens to Thessaloniki changed lanes and switched to a cargo track before colliding with the freight train. A train station manager has now been arrested, charged with mass deaths and causing grievous bodily harm through negligence. Firefighters meanwhile worked through the night to find and identify victims. Rescued passengers describe the ordeal as a nightmare.
STERGIOS MINENIS, TRAIN PASSENGER (through translator): We heard of big bang. It was 10 nightmarish seconds. We were turning over in the wagon until we fell on our sides and until the commotion stopped. Then there was panic. Cables everywhere. Fire. The fire was immediate as we were turning over, we were being burned.
BASHIR: More than 70 people were injured and now receiving treatment in hospital. Most of the passengers were young, the head of an intensive care unit at a local hospital told state media. Meanwhile, rescue workers continue the desperate search for more survivors.
MITSOTAKIS (through translator): One thing I can guarantee we will find out the cause of this tragedy and do everything in our power to make sure it never happens again.
BASHIR: Greece has declared a three-day mourning period, flags flying in half-staff across the country to remember the crash victims, but authorities say that the death toll is still expected to rise.
BASHIR (on camera): And what the Prime Minister has said that this deadly collision was most likely caused by what he described as tragic human error. There are now mounting questions over the safety measures in place across Greece's rail network. Nada Bashir, CNN, Tempi, Greece.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Ukrainian fighters continue to hold defensive lines in Bakhmut further in Russian forces for making any significant headway but a Ukrainian commander wants defending the city is becoming increasingly difficult.
[01:05:05]
Ukrainian officials report heavy fighting on the outskirts of the city, street fighting in the suburbs. Ukrainian military says much more experienced hardened Russian fighters from the Wagner group of private mercenaries are now in this battle, about 4,500 civilians remain trapped in Bakhmut as Vladimir Putin's army inches closer.
Thousands of homes have been destroyed, but Ukrainian troops say they are not backing down.
The International Atomic Energy Agency is again raising concerns about the safety of Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. Saturday will mark one year since Russian forces seized control of the Ukrainian nuclear site. The head of the IAEA says the plant faces persistent security risks during the war.
He cited nearby fighting and explosions delays and stuff rotations and a growing security presence on site. CNN's Clare Sebastian reports experts are worried Russia's tight grip on the nuclear plant will lead to disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): A year into its occupation of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, Russia is making changes. Satellite images showing the dry storage area where spent nuclear fuel is kept after being cooled first in August last year. Then, at the end of February, what looks like a wall of structure has appeared.
Russia's Atomic Energy Company Rosatom tells state media it's building a shield to protect against Ukrainian artillery strikes. A local Russian backed official posted this in December, calling it a protective dome.
PETRO KOTIN, PRESIDENT, ENERGOATOM: It's all illegal doing anything without license because it impacts nuclear radiation.
SEBASTIAN: The head of Ukraine's atomic energy company Energoatom says it's all part of a deteriorating situation at Zaporizhzhia that he is powerless to stop.
SEBASTIAN (on camera): What is the biggest risk right now when it comes to safety in the plant?
KOTIN: Well, yes, biggest risk is that we do not know what is in their hands at the moment. You cannot expect they can do anything so they can continue shelling on the plant, for example.
SEBASTIAN (voiceover): Energoatom says Russia, which forcibly took over the plant last March, damaging several buildings in the process continues to use it as a de facto military base. Video surfaced last summer of military trucks in one of the turbine buildings next to a reactor.
Last month, Energoatom accused Russia of bringing hundreds of newly mobilized troops to the site before deploying them to the east.
Rosatom own press service for the power plant denied there's any heavy military equipment on site, but noted that Russia's National Guard troops Putin's domestic security force are guarding the plant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very worried about Zaporizhzhia. I'm very worried.
SEBASTIAN: Energoatom says the plant has been cut off from the electricity grid five times in total, leaving diesel generators the last line of defense before catastrophe.
Fighting has also come to close. The IAEA reports shelling hit a building housing fresh nuclear fuel in September, and a reactor building in November. Energoatom now estimates four and a half thousands Ukrainian stuff are left at the plant out of 11,000 before the war.
NICK TOMKINSON, NUCLEAR EXPERT: That reduction of the number of people is going to have a significant impact on their ability to maintain and function sort of systems whether or not that's security systems, safety systems, radiation monitoring.
SEBASTIAN: Nuclear expert Nick Tomkinson says he is working with the Ukrainian government to try to deploy radiation mapping systems in Zaporizhzhia and other nuclear sites.
TOMKINSON: One of the concerns could be that things could go missing from Zaporizhzhia, particularly some of the fuel. I'm not worried about mistake. What I'd be worried about was an active decision to do something.
SEBASTIAN: Ukraine's nuclear power company though is worried about a slow motion mistake. Poor maintenance leading to the degradation of the equipment on the site, including the reactors themselves currently all in various states have shut down.
KOTIN: It is going to the stage, nobody knows iif we will be able to operate it again. And this is just a matter of time.
SEBASTIAN: The Russian side says strict radiation safety standards are being observed. Hardly a constellation when 20 percent of Ukraine's electricity supply remains hostage to this war. Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: U.S. has received an official notice of Russia's pullout from the New START Nuclear Treaty. The U.S. says it's still in compliance with the last remaining treaty which limits the world's top two nuclear arsenals. But that could change depending on what Moscow does next. Regardless, Washington says Russia's pull out is in no one's interest. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NED PRICE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMETN SPOKESPERSON: Russia is not better off in a world where the two largest nuclear powers are no longer engaged in bilateral arms control and Russia's willingness to promote instability and use irresponsible nuclear rhetoric in danger every nation on this planet/
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Relations between China and Belarus got a little warmer on Wednesday with President Xi Jinping describing his friendship with President Alexander Lukashenko as unbreakable. Lukashenko, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin is in Beijing on a state visit.
On Ukraine, both leaders call for a quote, as soon as possible peace deal in the region. President Xi also pointed to China's 12-Point peace proposal, which has been met with a lot of skepticism from many countries
Russia Sergey Lavrov arrived a short time ago at the G20 foreign ministers meeting in New Delhi. The war in Ukraine expected to dominate the agenda, along with the growing tension between the U.S. and China, which should make for an interesting discussion with diplomats from Beijing and Washington in the room at the same time, push India in that challenging position of trying to bring some unity to the group. CNN's Vedika Sud is standing by at the venue in New Delhi, where the G20 is taking place. So what can we expect?
VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: You know, John, just last month, you had the heads of finance ministries across the world converge in South India, the city of Bangalore, where they failed to come up with a joint statement after that G20 meet, which was a high profile meet because both Russia and China did not agree to the wording the text of the joint statement because it did criticize the war in Ukraine, the invasion by Russia.
Now just about 10 days later, you have another high profile event, right, about 50 meters behind me is where you have some of the biggest economies, some of the biggest world leaders, the foreign ministers of those countries can watch and talk inside the closed room, which is close to the media, but of course this at a time when the world is divided over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
You have the Chinese foreign minister inside. You have the Russian Foreign Minister inside. You have the U.S. Secretary of State inside. What should we really expect as a question when you have two sharp divides that they have iterated over the weeks and months ever since Russia's invasion of Ukraine but the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his opening statement today did talk about this divide. This is what he said and this was his urge to the nations across the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: We shall not allow issues that we cannot resolve together to come in the way of those we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SUD: The effort by India and the Indian Prime Minister has been to bring the West and Russia closer. Remember, India has very close historic ties with Russia for a very long time. And that's the effort because the Indian Prime Minister also wants to be seen as the leader of the global south which is a group of emerging and developing nations.
So in there, the talks are on we're expecting bilateral talks, as well bilateral meetings between different nations. We're expecting an all- important bilateral meeting between the foreign minister of India and the foreign minister of China. This comes at a time when you have those tensions are the line of actual control between the two nations. Back to you, John.
VAUSE: Vedika, thank you. Vedika Sud there live for us in New Delhi.
The head of the UN nuclear watchdog is heading to Tehran on Friday after traces of highly enriched uranium were detected at an already nuclear site. According to a restricted report seen by CNN, the International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed it found particles of uranium enriched to almost 84 percent just shy of 90 percent considered to be bomb grade material. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Near bomb grade level uranium was found in and around your nuclear facility. That's according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. Now this is in a restricted report from the nuclear watchdog that was seen by CNN. In that report IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency says it has found uranium particles enrich to 83.7 percent so nearly 84 percent in Iran Fordow nuclear plants.
Now to clarify weapons grade uranium, it's considered more than 90 percent pure. It goes on in this report, the nuclear watchdog to say that Iran has also grown its stockpile of uranium enriched up to 60 percent by 25 kilograms.
Now, Iran for its part has yet to comment. Officially on this restricted report again from the nuclear watchdog with CNN's Christiane Amanpour asked directly in an interview, recent interview to Iran's foreign minister about this report, he refused to comment but did say that Teheran was in consultations with the International Atomic Energy Agency.
The International Atomic Energy Agency, for its part says it has flagged this to the authorities in Iran that the enrichment levels found were higher than what was reported, of course by Iran's government.
The United States of course considers this an extremely worrying development. They are ringing the alarm, a top U.S. defense official saying that the breakout time now for Iran the time it requires to produce one bomb's worth of fissile material.
[01:15:04]
That has been reduced significantly that breakup -- breakout time to just 12 days for Iran to be able to produce one bomb's worth of fissile material. Experts are calling this an urgent proliferation crisis. The important context here to note is, of course, the JCPOA a deal, the nuclear deal attempts to restart negotiations after the Trump administration pulled out of that deal attempts to restart negotiations around that stalled last year.
Iran also last year removed all nuclear watchdog equipment previously installed for surveillance and monitoring purposes related to that nuclear deal as well. For now, there seems very few if any diplomatic avenues again, for what many see as a growing crisis around this proliferation. Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: As Salma just mentioned, CNN's Christiane Amanpour spoke exclusively about all of this with Iran's foreign minister, the entire interview coming up at the bottom of the hour.
Meantime, state media in Iran reports a disturbing rash of alleged poisoning at girls schools nationwide. An Iranian lawmakers says nearly 900 students have been treated with poisonings over the past three months. no deaths have been reported but victims apparently experience muscle weakness, nausea and fatigue.
The speculation and may be part of a campaign by Islamic hardliners to close schools for girls. Iran's Education Minister says a taskforce is investigating.
Still to come, anti-government protests in Israel intensifying why demonstrators are so angry. It's over plans to overhaul the country's judiciary. Also, U.S. intelligence agencies pour cold water on theory about a mystery illness known as Havana syndrome.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back everyone. Protests against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's plan to weaken the judiciary intensified on Wednesday. Thousands gathering for a nationwide day of disruption. In Tel Aviv, police clashed with demonstrators trying to block a major intersection. Authorities fired stun grenades in an effort to clear the crowds. A local hospital says at least 11 people were treated for injuries.
Israeli operation to find the suspected killers I want to American Israeli citizen has left one Palestinian dead, three others under arrest. This was the scene in the West Bank city of Jericho on Wednesday during that raid. All of this as a senior Israeli government minister, the finance minister has called for a Palestinian town in the West Bank to quote be erased. And that brought one of the most serious rebukes from the U.S. in recent memory. Here's CNN's Hadas Gold reporting in from Jerusalem. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): These incendiary remarks by the Israeli finance minister Betzalel Smotrich referred to Huwara, a Palestinian Flashpoint village in the occupied West Bank that often sees violence between Israelis and Palestinians. It's where two Israelis were shot and killed by a Palestinian gunman on Sunday. And then we're Israeli settlers want on it a rampage of revenge attacks that killed one Palestinian.
[01:20:04]
Smotrich was speaking at a media conference on Wednesday when he was asked by the moderator why he liked a tweet from someone saying that Huwara needs to be wiped out. This is how he responded.
BETZALEL SMOTRICH, ISRALIE FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): I think the village of Huwara needs to be erased. I think that the State of Israel needs to do this, and God forbid, not private people.
GOLD: The reaction was swift and harsh. Former Prime Minister now opposition leader Yair Lapid said it was incitement to a war cry. Later, Smotrich himself, a settler leader, who has called for the West Bank to be annexed by Israel seemed to try to revise his earlier comment tweeting, I did not mean to wipe out the village of Huwara, but only to act in a targeted manner against the terrorist and supporters of terrorism within it, and to exact a heavy price from them in order to restore security to the residents of the area.
But Smotrich's comments getting also harsh reaction and criticism from the U.S. State Department.
PRICE: I want to be very clear about this. These comments were irresponsible. They were repugnant. They were disgusting. And just as we condemn Palestinian incitement to violence, we condemn these provocative remarks that also amount to incitement to violence.
GOLD: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a televised address after Smotrich's comments, but before those comments from the State Department, instead seemingly comparing the settlers who rampage through Huwara setting fire to homes and vehicles and of course, killing one Palestinian to the protesters in the streets of Tel Aviv on Wednesday who were protesting against Netanyahu's government's plan judicial reforms. Netanyahu calling for calm and warning we will not allow law breaking and violence anywhere. Hadas Gold, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Miriam Berger with the Washington Post is with us now live from Ramallah in the West Bank. Good to have you with us. Thank you.
MIRIAM BERGER, STAFF WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: OK, so these comments from the finance minister, whose responsibilities include settlements in the West Bank, about this Palestinian town where two Israeli brothers was shot and killed, kind of sums up where Israel is right now. And it's worth hearing them one more time. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMOTRICH (through translator): I think the village of Huwara needs to be erased. I think that the State of Israel needs to do this, and God forbid, not private people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So you're in Ramallah, what's been the reaction there from Palestinians?
BERGER: So, you know, the, the rampage to Huwara really scared a lot of people. It was really shocking, you know, the Palestinians are quite used to settler violence. But, you know, this seemed to take it to a whole another level. And as well as frustration with, you know, reports and Palestinians saying that, you know, Israeli soldiers didn't do anything, or if they did this have been very late, you know, questions about access to ambulances.
You know, in this part of the West Bank of have any authority, they can really call with any of this happens, both that legally responsible or even if they feel like they can trust. And you know, this whole area of Huwara is a major, you know, the road, the main road that was attacked as a major thoroughfare, it's been closed in the day since Palestinians can access their, you know, their businesses, a lot of houses are still burned to a crisp and, you know, unlivable.
So there's, you know, a lot of a lot of fear right now that this kind of violence could be spreading.
VAUSE: But then you take the level of violence, which is, you know, already reached sort of an unprecedented level, or at least a level we have not seen in a very long time. And there, those comments on from a government minister, a senior government minister, who's called for the police to be erased, maybe not by your private citizens, he says, but by the State of Israel. That has to be, you know, a chilling effect to say the least on Palestinians.
BERGER: Yes, I mean, it's very shocking. I think it shocked Israelis in a different way. Perhaps, it shocked Israelis who have also, you know, the top, you know, IDF general came out and calling the pogrom, top opposition leader but against as well.
You know, Palestinians are have faced a lot of violence from settlers over the years. I mean, I talked to one man and who are who said just since October, his house, which was burned had been attacked three times. So you know, this is a real escalation to what people have already been experiencing. And incendiary remarks from key members of the Netanyahu government are not something new like that.
You know, these people like Smotrich now have much more power in the government. And so the words that they say definitely have a much, you know, bigger effects and amplify. But it definitely shocked people and scared people, but I think this has been the continuation of what's been, you know, ongoing, you know, violence that people have the Palestinians have been experiencing
VAUSE: The issue that we seem to be tearing Israel apart the most is Netanyahu's judicial reform, which he says is just a few technical changes to the Supreme Court, bring in line with United States and Canada.
[01:25:00]
Thomas Friedman, in the old times puts this way. This is judicial reform that he hopes Netanyahu would end his trial on breach of trust, bribery and fraud charges, which could land him in prison. The judicial reform would also give his right wing coalition the unfettered power to build any settlements in any place to seize any Palestinian land, and to pour tax dollars into orthodox religious schools, where young people have only to study the Torah, not math, science or literature, that alone served in the army.
You know, it's hard to believe that Netanyahu and this ultra- conservative coalition have been in office for two months. And in that short period of time, the country is now heading towards a constitutional crisis, which at the very least, you know, could be just a few weeks away.
BERGER: Yes, I mean, there's just so many political upheaval and elements happening here right now. Absolutely. There's the judicial reforms they're pushing right ahead. You know, yesterday, the -- there was a sort of strongest crackdown on protesters that we've seen inside Israel about the judicial reforms. And all of this is really limiting the ability of the government, you know, to rein in settler violence in the West Bank.
VAUSE: Object very quickly, the strong words we heard from the State Department spokesperson, Ned Price, you know, some of the strongest language we've heard from the U.S. in many, many years, does that have any kind of impact on this right wing coalition government? Does that have any kind of, I guess, a really they're in any way? Reining them in in any way? I should say.
BERGER: You know, it's not -- it's hard for me to say, I don't have particular insights into that. I do think that, you know, over -- overall the American ability to influence, you know, Israeli politics and the choices of Israeli politicians does not seem to be particularly strong. There seems to be that there's times in which they can temper down a few policies or a few actions push something off. But overall, the trajectory that we've seen has continued on.
And as you said, what happened in Huwara was incredibly shocking. And, you know, people there, you know, people are still afraid to go on to the streets, Palestinians in those areas. But whether that's -- whether, you know, strong condemnation, definitely, I think impacts, you know, political thinking, but I can't comment about how much that really is going to change on the ground. VAUSE: Well, there was at least at a time when, you know, would have some kind of impact, but those days seem to be long gone. Miriam, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time speaking (INAUDIBLE) from Ramallah, thank you.
BERGER: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: Pleasure. Well, Nigeria's opposition Labor Party plans to challenge the results of Saturday's presidential election, claiming the vote was rigged and stolen. Bola Ahmed Tinubu from the ruling All Progressives Congress Party declared the winner on Wednesday with almost 37 percent of the vote. But more than 70 civil society groups say the results are not credible, that the election was poorly organized and marred by violence at some polling stations, preventing many from casting their ballots.
U.S. intelligence agencies cannot like any foreign adversary to the so called Havana syndrome. That's according to a new assessment of the mystery illness, which first appeared among U.S. diplomats in the Cuban capital. It later affected hundreds of U.S. government workers and their families worldwide, leading to speculation that maybe another country could be behind it.
But intelligence agencies are blaming the illness on other issues including environmental factors and pre-existing conditions. Officials say the victims will continue to receive compensation and support.
A short break, when we come back. Blast off, SpaceX and NASA have launched their latest manned mission to the International Space Center. But firstly, this exclusive interview with the Iranian foreign minister who defends his country's human rights record, despite a brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:31:00]
VAUSE: Welcome back everyone.
Well, along with allegations that Tehran is very close to having enough nuclear material to build a nuclear bomb, Iran is also facing alarming allegation of human rights violations by the regime against protesters.
Meantime, Iran is strongly suspected of supplying Russia with drone to attack targets inside Ukraine. The Iranian foreign minister was in Geneva this week speaking at the U.N. Human Rights Council.
And in a rare interview, since the death of Mahsa Amini rocked the country, CNN's Christiane Amanpour sat down with him for a challenging and exclusive conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Foreign Minister, welcome to the program. HOSSEIN AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: In the name of
God, the compassionate, the merciful, I am ready to answer your questions.
I would like to convey my greetings to all those watching your program.
AMANPOUR: In that case let me start by the fact that you are here. You gave a speech at the Human Rights Council of the U.N. As you know there were many people who wondered why you would be giving a human rights speech given what's going on in your country.
You did actually say that no country can claim to implement human rights perfectly. So I want to know whether you admit that Iran has really cracked down, has not just not implemented human rights, but has killed people. There are reports of prisoners and ordinary protesters having been assaulted sexually, having been tortured.
We've seen pictures of police and other security forces using live fire against peaceful protesters. Is that what you mean when you say no country can claim to implement human rights perfectly?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: You're of Iranian heritage, like I am. In the Iranian civilization and over thousands of years of Iranian history, we have human rights inscriptions on stones originating from Iran.
Iran is the first country that has had human rights inscriptions in its museums and in museums around the world. In our religious and Islamic texts human rights is one of the most fundamental issues. And we have always been advised to observe them.
The constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran also emphasizes them. We observe human rights very well but when I said in my state speech that human rights is not fully implemented by some countries, I mean those who advocate human rights, but in practice they don't observe them.
AMANPOUR:: I want to talk about your country. So what I want to understand is are you therefor saying that killing innocent protesters, sexually abusing and raping women who have been arrested, as we, CNN have spoken to at least one woman who says that, in a revolutionary guard detention center, summary trials, mass detentions of peaceful protesters -- I'm talking about peaceful protesters now.
Is that Iran's standard for implementing human rights? That's what I want to know.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: In Iran we had an incident, an Iranian girl passed away. And we were all very sorry about that. But foreign interference and the Persian language media that are based in the United States and Britain focus their activities on encouraging and instigating the riots and acts of terror.
And that's why peaceful protests ended up becoming violent because of the foreign intervention. To the extent that even DASH or ISIS exploited the situation to establish a presence in Iran. And I can tell you this in full confidence that our police and the security forces in Iran have not killed anyone with bullets or any other means in these riots. In fact, the police they were not even given permission to use firearms.
[01:34:57]
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: On the contrary, over 100 police officers were actually attacked by people who had all kinds of firearms and weapons they have procured from the unsafe borders of neighboring countries. They were murdered. And thousands of police were injured.
And some foreign elements and the Persian language media that are financially supported and led by them claim that there was a new revolution and claim that a coup d'etat is being staged in Iran.
And who is going to lead this? The head of the terrorist mini group MUK. The hypocrites which has murdered 17,000 Iranians, women and children. And they have been on the U.S. and Western terrorist blacklist for many years.
And then there is a son of the former shah who has committed many crimes. And I said to the authorities in Germany, would you allow a son of Hitler if he had any children to become chancellor in Germany today?
AMANPOUR: Are you really seriously drawing that comparison?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Yes of course. That's what I told the Germans.
AMANPOUR: right, so that's your position. You say that there are terrorists, you did say that there was peaceful protest. I want to talk about the peaceful protest because those are the people who have also been arrested, who have also been killed, and essentially repression has worked.
We've seen summary executions of at least four people, and the protests are less than they were. But I want to ask you to respond -- I want to ask you to respond to the fact, when you say the Islamic Republic of Iran respects human rights.
One female protester says that she was detained inside a revolutionary guard facility for more than a month and raped by three different men. She went to a cleric, a mullah, afterwards because she was having suicide thoughts. She was so upset.
CNN spoke with that cleric. Is that acceptable? Is it acceptable for a woman, whatever she has done, to be arrested and raped? And there are many, many, many reports of sexual abuse in the situation against women and men?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Firstly, in the peaceful demonstrations in the fall, no one was arrested.
AMANPOUR: So you're just denying that? AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: However, in those protests that have become violent,
some individuals, some of whom who had entered Iran from the outside and where using firearms and killing the police were arrested.
You do know that the supreme leader actually issued an amnesty, and all those who were imprisoned were released with the exception of those who had killed someone or were being sued.
Regarding the Iranian woman that you mentioned, I cannot confirm it. There have been so many such baseless claims made on social media and in media.
AMANPOUR: Ok, these are not baseless, and they weren't from the Internet. It's CNN spoke to a cleric, a religious person inside your country, and got this story.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: We have seen some of CNN's reports that are targeted and false.
AMANPOUR: that's not true. We report the facts, and we report the truth. And that's why you are sitting with me, Mr. Foreign Minister.
Can we move on? I want to ask you, you have a wife, you may have sisters, do you have daughters? I want to know what you think about peaceful protests for change and the way women are able to live their lives in Iran. The peaceful act of removing a scarf?
What do they say to the woman in your family? What do they say to you?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: First of all, I would like to say that in Iran, we have the strongest democracy, especially compared to many other countries.
There are standards and rules and regulations in every country. And the women have an important role in Iran, and they gained that roll after the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.
Today, the outside networks, they are turning the issue of hijab and head scarves into a political crisis. Women in Iran, within the framework of rules and regulations, enjoy extraordinary freedoms.
AMANPOUR: The thing is I kind of know about this, so I also know that at the beginning of the revolution there was no hijab mandates. Those who wanted to wear a hijab (INAUDIBLE) could, those who did not want to didn't.
Only several months or maybe a year after did the Ayatollah say no -- all you women have to go under the hijab.
So again, I'm trying to find out what you and what the government is going to do. Because even -- even Ayatollah Khamenei recently has said women who do not wear hijabs are not irreligious (ph) -- they are not violating religion.
Some other people have said that. We've heard from the former speaker of parliament Mr. Larajani (ph) who at the beginning said do we really need to make all of this chaos over a hijab?
[01:39:50]
AMANPOUR: So I want to know whether you accepted because it's also traditional woman, all the women who have gone in the streets. It's men, it's young, it's very different than previous protests.
Do you accept that women can have peaceful demonstrations for change and for their own rights? Do they have the rights? You say that it is the most developed democracy -- do women have the right peacefully?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Unfortunately in such issues, their approach is one of double standard. Let me ask you a question --
AMANPOUR: But I'm actually quoting your own --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Just a moment please. Just a moment.
AMANPOUR: I don't want to get into a discussion. I'm asking you a question.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: I want to ask you a question before answering your question. Let's see where all this started. An Iranian girl called Mahsa Amini, she passed away.
AMANPOUR: because she was manhandled by the morality police.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Just a moment please. Just a moment please.
Just a moment please.
Yes, a young girl Mahsa Amini passed away. They turned her into a symbol in order to change the system in Iran, in the name of defending women's freedom.
My question is this, Ms. Sarine Abu Akleh who is a colleague of yours and is journalist, she is a lady. She has a question and in broad daylight, she was murdered by the Israeli regime. Who defended her?
AMANPOUR: Oh, Mr. Foreign Minister, the whole world -- everybody defended and everybody condemned her death.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: The result?
AMANPOUR: Everybody.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: What was the result of that?
AMANPOUR: I'm not getting into an international --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Why didn't they allow the issue to be raised --
AMANPOUR: Everybody condemned her death, Mr. Foreign Minister. I'm literally just asking you whether in Iran, you believe women have the right to peacefully protest. And by the way, as you know what better than I do, sometimes the morality police are out being aggressive, and sometimes the authorities say, just take it easy. All right?
And what do we see? Since this presidency, we have seen a crackdown on women how they are dressed and their rights. Why? Why does any regime --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Women in Iran --
AMANPOUR: Why does any regime need to prove itself on the back of women's rights, their own bodily space? Why?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: My request to you -- look, you're supposed to interview me but you're actually having a confrontation with me.
AMANPOUR: This is one last question then I need to move on. I'm trying to get an answer.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: And this is not the way to conduct an interview.
AMANPOUR: I just wanted an answer, that's all.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Women in Iran have all the necessary required freedoms within the framework of the law.
AMANPOUR: I am trying to see that. What now?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Do you ask other countries -- do you ask the other countries who are in our region but are allies of the United States the same kinds of questions that you're asking me?
The issue in Iran at the moment is not that of hijab. What has hijab got to do with the MUK terrorists. Ask them, what is this hijab they are wearing? And they are based in Europe and in the United States.
And this woman who wanted to come and become president in Iran. Why is it that she has established compulsory hijab in her terrorist organization? They are friends of the United States. They are friends of the White House. Why should there be a double standard?
AMANPOUR: Ok, so I realize that we probably reached the end of this little bit because you're not going to answer any more. But as you know, your government's reaction, violent reaction against women, has changed foreign policy and your relations with many countries in the world.
More sanctions have been leveled against you. the whole Iran nuclear deal is no longer willing to be negotiated. Even if you are willing, they are not willing anymore, the U.S. and Europe.
But first I want to ask you about another really important thing. And that is about Iranian weapons to Russia that are targeting Ukrainians during this war.
Can you tell me why it is Iran's policy to send drones and other military support to President Putin that are used to kill civilians inside Ukraine. Why are you sending drones to -- violating all sorts of sanctions, but still, also causing a huge amount of death? AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: We oppose the war in Ukraine, and we have not sent
weapons to either side. And from the very beginning of the war, we have tried to stop the war so that both sides focused on a political dialogue. This is the same policy that we adopted in the case of Yemen, Afghanistan, and various other countries and crisis.
Regarding accusations that have been made against Iran with regards to drones, they are untrue. We've had defense cooperation with Russia in the past, and we continue that cooperation. But we have not provided Russia any weapons to be used in the war in Ukraine.
[01:44:47]
AMANPOUR: Ok so, you're probably seen these pictures, right? So that is a drone, an Iranian drone that was found inside and recovered from Ukraine. This as well with the president of Ukraine standing next to it. This, they have compared to --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Who said that?
AMANPOUR: -- this is the Ukrainians.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Who said that?
AMANPOUR: This is the Ukrainians and this is from open sources from -- like Yemen and other --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: How can they put this drone with just a photograph?
AMANPOUR: Are you denying it? Ok. Are these two the same thing?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Let me explain it to you.
AMANPOUR: Ok fine, but that's what Ukrainians say, and those are the pictures of the same drone that you all display at military shows and affairs, and that have been discovered in Yemen and other of where you are active.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: I will explain to you what happened. A few months ago I telephoned the Ukrainian foreign minister and I said, what are these baseless accusations you are making about Iran? And he said, we actually have documents that the Iranians Shahed (ph) drones are being used by Russia in Ukraine. I said to him, look, we are ready for your military team and the Iranian military came to sit down and look at these documents and then make judgments.
And we arranged to have such a meeting in Oman, and Ukrainian and Iranian military teams they sat down, and they were showing us some very blurry, obscure satellite pictures. And they were alleging that these are Iranian drones.
AMANPOUR: But what I showed you wasn't blurry and obscure.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Just a moment.
Our experts examined these pictures, and the pictures had no connection with Iran whatsoever. And for four months, we have been waiting for the second round of talks. And we expect them to come and present clear documents. But the Ukrainian team keeps saying in two weeks, soon, but nothing has happened.
AMANPOUR: So the thing is, you did say -- the Iranian government did say that you have sent Russia Shahed drones, but you said before the invasion.
But apparently, according to western diplomats, you've sent many after the invasion. Hundreds of Iranian drones have been launched and over 100 of them, according to the Ukrainians, have struck their targets, their civilian targets inside Ukraine.
That is why Russia is offering to trade MIG fighters, that's a latest news, for drones and more things. Another western diplomat says, yes --
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Your question is too long.
AMANPOUR: I know it's too long but I'm trying to say the facts because you say it's not happening. So I need your answer. That's why there are sanctions against you.
(CROSSTALK)
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: We asked our Russian counterparts and they said we have not used Iranian manufactured drones in Ukraine. And we said to the Ukrainian counterparts, if you have any documented proof, show it to us. We will look into it.
But the Ukrainian side did not show us any strong proof to substantiate that claim with the exception of some media accusations. And I can tell you explicitly, as the foreign minister of the Islamic Republic of Iran, that we are against war.
We are against the war in Ukraine, against the war in Afghanistan, against the war in Yemen, against the war in Palestine. And our president has made great efforts in order to stop the war in Ukraine.
A few months ago, Mr. Macron asked the president of our country to come and mediate because he has good relations with Russia. And then the president, Mr. Raisi, sent me to Moscow, and I spoke with Russian officials.
And we are continuing our efforts. We think war is not a solution. Neither in Ukraine, nor anywhere else in the world.
Look, it's military experts who should be proving this. You are a journalist, you're not an expert, I'm not an expert either.
And now as a CNN reporter, you are telling me that this is an Iranian drone? You know -- I think that incidentally this is a drone that with used by the Zionist regime.
The way you are asking questions, the way you're making allegations is wrong. Look, if Ukraine has any documents, why couldn't they show these documents to our senior experts when they sat together? Look, we went and sat with them.
AMANPOUR: So no negotiations? Do you have any hope that there will be a JCPOA, a new nuclear deal? That's one part of the question. The other part of the question is; how much are you enriching to it? There is one press report that says 84 percent. Can you tell us?
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: With regards to JCPOA, the Islamic Republic of Iran has been and is the most committed of all the parties involved in JCPOA negotiations. The party that left the JCPOA was Trump and the United States.
The United States should not adopt deceptive behavior and instead should return to JCPOA and adopt a constructive approach. Under the new government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, we have decided to continue dialogue in order to return to JCPOA.
[01:49:55]
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: We've had very long discussions in the (INAUDIBLE) and the United States is accusing Iran. It is saying that the Iranians don't have the necessary resolve. They said we were at a stage of reaching an accord, but it is the Iranians who are too demanding.
I will tell you explicitly that in the past few years, we saw that the U.S. officials were unable to make a decision because of their own internal problems and the pressures that they are under. They are still unable to make a courageous decision to return to JCPOA.
And of course the Iranian parliament in the past few weeks, especially since the riots and the U.S. interventions, and interventions by three European countries in the peaceful demonstrations in Iran have been putting a lot of pressure on our governments.
I was in parliament last week, and they said, who do you want to make an agreement with? with United States and three European countries that have been trying to change the system during the riots in the fall? Why are you negotiating with them? How can you trust them?
Nevertheless, we are still on the path of dialogue. We have a roadmap with the IAEA. And on two occasions, Mr. Opero (ph) Mr. (INAUDIBLE) deputy came to Iran in the past few weeks. And we had constructive and productive negotiations.
And we also invite Mr. Grosse (ph) to come and visit Iran soon. Therefore our relationship with the IAEA is on its correct natural path. We have said this to the U.S. side through mediators that we are on the path to reach an accord.
But if the Iranian parliament adopts a new law, then we'll have to abide by the parliamentary act. So the window for an accord is still open. But this window will not remain open forever.
The U.S. Party has been sending us positive messages through diplomatic channels. But in its media remarks, they make very deceptive remarks that are totally different. And really, as an Iranian foreign minister, sometimes I have serious doubts. I received a message from the U.S. party, emphasizing their commitment
to accord, but then in the media they say that we are not at a point of accord, and that JCPOA is not a priority on our agenda. Which version should we accept?
Nevertheless, we are still on the path of reaching an accord. We believe a couple of outstanding issues between us can be resolved, and it can be finalized. But that requires the U.S. side to say the same thing that they are telling us confidentially and through diplomatic channels.
And even if they don't want to tell the media everything, at least don't deny it in your media. And then tell us that it is because you are under pressure by the U.S. journalists and have to make such remarks because of your internal situation.
Look -- if the U.S. side want to come back to its commitments in the JCPOA, they need the courage of their convictions. We have the courage of our convictions and we have shown it. Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Thank you very much indeed.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: Appreciate it.
AMIR-ABDOLLAHIAN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Great interview.
Still to come, blast off. SpaceX and NASA have launched their latest manned mission to the International Space Station.
[01:53:03]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Changes are coming to TikTok to try and limit the amount of time teenagers spend on the app. Users under 18 years old will soon have a one hour daily screen time limit, kind of. Once the hour is up they can continue scrolling but must enter a pass code.
The time limit is like a circuit breaker with hopes that entering a pass code to continue using the app will lead to some better choices. Even though the one hour time limit can be disabled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, four, three, two, one, and in full power, and lift off. Go Dragon, go Falcon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Right now a four-person crew is on its way to the International Space Station after a fiery nighttime launch into a clear Florida sky. All happening about 90 minutes ago.
Two American, a Russian, and a U.A.E. astronaut are inside the capsule called Endeavor. Big sighs of relief for NASA and SpaceX after Monday's launch event was scrubbed. The crew is scheduled to dock at the International Space Station in just under 24 hours from now.
I'm John Vause. CNN NEWSROOM continues in just a moment with my friend and colleague Rosemary Church. See you back here tomorrow.
[01:57:47]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
