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Alex Murdaugh Sentenced to Life in Prison; DOJ Urges Court to Reject Trump's Immunity Claims in Jan. 6 Lawsuits. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 03, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JUDGE CLIFTON NEWMAN, SOUTH CAROLINA CIRCUIT COURT: And might not have been you. It might have been a -- the monster you have become when you take 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 opioid pills, and maybe you become another person. I have seen that before. The person standing before me is not the person who committed the crime though it is the same individual. We'll leave that at that.

Before announcing sentence on these cases with regard to all of the other pending cases, are any of them here in Colleton or I'm sure some of them are?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

NEWMAN: Have of them or --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have that in front of me but there are a substantial number of charges here. There are some in Hampton, Orangeburg, Beaufort, Allendale and maybe others that I'm not thinking of right now.

NEWMAN: We might have worn out our welcome here in Colleton, have been, and I will take this opportunity to thank Sheriff Hill and all of the court officials and really everyone out from that and dealt with while here in Colleton County. It's just been great.

But without any delay, we're going to schedule some of the matters. I know that Mr. Harpootlian's scheduling is complicated and you sacrificed quite a bit too to be able to be here defending Mr. Murdaugh, as well as the Attorney General's Office, with all the other many, many things and obligations you have. And to be able to have the attorney general here, Alan Wilson, for the period of time that he's devoted to being here along with everyone else, it has been quite a sacrifice.

But there are other victims whose cases deserve to be heard. And this case has jumped some of those other cases, perhaps jumped it because of this case resulting in an assault on the integrity of the judicial system in our state, law enforcement in our state. Even during this trial, the law enforcement have been maligned for the past five or six weeks by one who had access to the wheel of justice to be able to deflect the investigation. As the evidence has pointed out in this case, the looming storm that Mr. Waters talked about, I can just imagine on that day, June 7th, when a lawyer is confronted and confesses to having stolen over half a million dollars from a client and he has a tagger like Mark Tinsley on his tail pursuing the discovery in the case involving the death of Mallory Beach, and having a father for the most part on his death bed. I can imagine, or I really can't imagine, but I know that it had to be quite a bit going through your mind on that day.

But, amazingly, to have you come and testify that it was just another ordinary day that my wife and son and I were out, just enjoying life, it is not credible, it is not believable. You can convince yourself about it, but, obviously, you have the inability to convince anyone else about that.

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So, if you made any such arguments as a lawyer, you would lose every case like that, cases that you will not have the opportunity to argue anymore except perhaps your own as you sit in the Department of Corrections.

Anything further?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Murdaugh, I sentence you to the State Department of Corrections on each of the murder indictments in the murder of your wife, Maggie Murdaugh, I sentence you for the term of the rest of your natural life. For the murder of Paul Murdaugh, whom you probably loved so much, I sentence you to prison for murdering him for the rest of your natural life. Those sentences will run consecutive. Under the statute involving possession of a weapon during a violent crime, there is no sentence where a life sentence is imposed on other indictments.

That is the sentence of the court and you are remanded to the State Department of Corrections. And, officers, may carry forth on the imposition.

Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May we approach?

NEWMAN: Yes, sir.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We have just witnessed quite a moment in an American courtroom, the judge in the Alex Murdaugh case, Clifton Newman, delivering the sentences, two consecutive life sentences for Alex Murdaugh, one each for the murder of his wife and for the murder of his son. He said in these words that Murdaugh would spend the rest of his natural life in prison for those crimes.

And, Erica, quite a preamble to that sentence there, twice, Alex Murdaugh said, I'm was innocent, his words, I would never under any circumstances, hurt my wife, Maggie, I would never, under any circumstances, hurt my son, Paw-Paw, as he referred to him. But the judge saying he didn't believe him. The judge said, you continue to lie throughout your testimony, and he said that many, most, he described it as more than 99 percent of the people observing this case would continue to believe that he was lying in his statement of denial in that courtroom in these final moments there.

Let's back in again. Here's the judge speaking.

NEWMAN: An order was issued concerning maintaining the juror's identity being anonymous. That order was issued. And for the most part, it's been complied with, except for the jury leaving the courtroom yesterday, or not the jury but the defendant leaving courtroom while the jury was still seated.

SCIUTTO: Erica, just one thought, it struck me, and I wonder if you had the same thought. He did raise the point, Judge Clifton Newman raised before he got eventually to those consecutive life sentences, that, in his view, the crimes qualify under South Carolina State death penalty statute, noting that two people were killed. And it struck me for a moment there that the judge might be going another way, but that was notable.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And he said -- and when he was talking about it, he said very clearly, I don't question the state's decision, however, when he takes into account, he also went on to say, he referenced, and we have talked a lot about this during the course of the trial and, of course, over the last year-and-half or so since Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were killed, the impact that this family has had on this county, in this area of South Carolina from a legal perspective.

And the judge in those moments also talking about over the past century that this family has been prosecuting people sometimes in this courtroom, he said, many who received death probably for lesser conduct.

[10:07]

SCIUTTO: Yes. How about that detail he said that he had to have the accused grandfather's portrait, which was hung at the back of the courthouse, taken down in advance of the trial to guarantee it would be -- or to help it to be a fair trial.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Joey Jackson and Sarah Ford back with us.

Joey, just continuing to pick up on this point, so if you are just joining us, consecutive life sentences for the murders of his wife, Maggie, and son, paul, for Alex Murdaugh. We also heard throughout from the judge talking about who Alex Murdaugh was in his view prior to these murders, prior to these moments in court now this morning and who he was today. And he said, maybe you weren't the person who killed them, maybe you were not the person because you had popped so many pills, and maybe you weren't in that moment. I have had people who stood before me who were not the person who committed the crime, but they were the same individual, I found that really interesting, Joey that he would lay it out in that way. JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, remarkable, Erica. And in addition to that, even the personal connection that the judge spoke to. Remember the judge saying that, hey, I have seen you at events, I've known you as a member of the bar, I know you and your family to be a beautiful family, I know you to have been a nice person. What happened?

And then going back to the point that you made, Erica, which is compelling that the judge talked about, which is that, yes, perhaps it was not you, but maybe it was the individual that was so strung up on these pills that it happened.

Big picture, Erica, when you look at the sentencing issues, they are about punishment, rehabilitation and deterrence, right. And the judges look for those things, and, clearly, this is not a person who could be rehabilitated, so the judge then has to pivot to what is the appropriate punishment under these circumstances. Is there anything that anyone would believe that would be appropriate other than multiple life sentences?

And then the deterrent factor, no one else should be able to get away with this, whether you are a lawyer, whether you have a family that has a portrait hanging on the courthouse door or anyone else. So, it seemed to me that the judge was very reflective, very thoughtful, had a number of things to say, spoke to the sacrifices of the attorney general and the prosecutors and everyone who was there to met out justice. I think the judge under these circumstances did what justice required and demanded, and that was a two consecutive life sentences that we saw.

SCIUTTO: Well, one thing that was clear the judge did not believe, Alex Murdaugh's testimony or denials, like the jury. He said many times, you lied through your testimony and even said you seem to be lying still when you deny here.

I do want to get to Sarah Ford. We do have our correspondent, Dianne Gallagher, outside of the courthouse. And, Dianne, as I said earlier, quite a moment in an American courtroom, you have been following this case for some time. What was the reaction outside the courthouse there?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolute silence and some gasps as the judge started saying things. Look, I want to add a little bit of context here, too. You heard him say that I am sure you loved your son very much. It was chilling for me to listen to. I cannot imagine Alex Murdaugh, the judge looking him in the eyes and telling him that I know you have to see Paul and Maggie when you attempt to sleep. I am sure they visit you, Alex Murdaugh, said all day and every night. And he said, I am sure that you have to reflect on the last moments they looked you in the eyes.

Judge Newman obviously saying that as a judge, he's extremely respected judge for his even keeled temperament and fairness here in South Carolina. But he also says that, as a grieving father, Judge Clifton Newman's son, Brian, died at the age of 40 before this trial began unexpectedly. And so he has gone through this, listening to Alex Murdaugh talking about Paw-Paw and listening to the testimony of Paul's friends discuss the fact that they had heard him there and that they identified his voice there. He pulled no punches.

We talked about the privilege, the prominence here in the low country of the Murdaugh family, that the century of them controlling the law as solicitors here. We reported extensively on his grandfather's portrait being taken down.

Creighton Waters, the prosecutor, apologized to Alex Murdaugh, giving his condolences to Alex Murdaugh's dead father, Randolph, who had just passed away two days after Maggie and Paul were murdered, noting that he had worked with him. The judge pointing out the fact that Alex had argued cases before them, just really hitting home how intricate, how involved everybody in this community was with the Murdaugh family. And as he said over and over again, Alex Murdaugh fooled everyone, and perhaps most tragically, he said that he had fooled Maggie and Paul.

I have never seen something like that and I don't know if Alex Murdaugh has ever had someone look him directly in eyes and dress him down, trying to hold him accountable for the things he had done.

[10:15:02]

Judge Newman acknowledged that he also is presiding over the 90-some other charges that Alex Murdaugh still faces and dealing with those victims there. I spoke with Attorney General Alan Wilson this morning before he went into court. And he told me, we're still going to pursue those. This may be two consecutive life sentences for the murder of Maggie and Paul but there are a lot of other victims out there who want to get their justice from Alex Murdaugh as well.

And so, look, there were a lot of additional hearings, trials, maybe pleas that we have going forward dealing with Alex Murdaugh. We've seen and you probably can see people coming out of the courtroom now. Most of these are people who are from around the area or who would travel then because of the fascination with this fall from power.

Justin Bamberg, who I spoke with last night, an attorney who represents about ten of the alleged financial victims of Alex Murdaugh, he told me it wasn't a fall from grace or fall from power, it was a jump from power. To watch how quickly this has all unraveled after Alex Murdaugh admitting on the stand more than a decade's worth of lying and stealing from people.

Now, it is important to note he has been convicted but he said twice that he did not kill Maggie and Paul, he would never hurt Maggie, he would never hurt Paw-paw, but, obviously, the judge and the jury not convinced by his testimony.

HILL: Yes, such important context. Dianne, I really appreciate you adding that and the excellent reporting you've been doing over the several weeks and, really, months of all of this.

As we bring in now as well, back to our panel, Sarah Ford, we were waiting to see whether there would be any victim impact statements, not a single one. Was that surprising to you?

SARAH FORD, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don't think that was surprising. Victims have the opportunity to speak if they want, but they also have the opportunity to choose not to. And I think because there is a very fine line, there is no distinguishing between the victim's family and the defendant's family. Buster is the son of Maggie, the brother to Paul, he's also the son of Alex. And hearing him speak or Maggie's family speaking, they are all one family. So, I think it would be very difficult for them to speak.

But, certainly, Creighton Waters and the Attorney General's Office did an excellent job advocating for Maggie and for Paul for asking for the life sentence, which Judge Newman did sentence Alex to. But listening to Judge Newman, his words were chilling and poetic, so thoughtful, really incredibly to hear.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and brutal, frankly, on the defendant.

Just very briefly, Sarah Ford, could he have ordered a sentence greater than life in prison? I mean, he said that they qualified under the death penalty statute in South Carolina. Could he have gone beyond the prosecution's recommendation?

FORD: The state has to file a notice to seek the death penalty and the state did not do that. The maximum sentence that would be allowed would be the life in prison, and, of course, the consecutive nature of that which Judge Newman did impose.

HILL: Joey, as Dianne just brought up, she brought up those comments from the judge, which I have to say I almost stopped taking notes at one point when he was talking about this. And he said, I am sure that Maggie and Paul visit you at night, and Alex Murdaugh said, all day, every night. And he said, and you must reflect the last time they looked you in the eye.

There has been a fair amount of discussion this morning, right, both from what we heard from that juror but also just in court about -- we heard from the prosecutor as well, Alex Murdaugh and his eyes. And when people would look him in the eye, and what they are seeing in these moments and in those in the courtroom as they look him in the eye, all of those words, Joey, paint such a powerful picture of this man in this moment.

JACKSON: You know they really do, Erica. It is an interesting point. Because as you will recall, even the prosecutor said that Alex Murdaugh would eye him down in the court and what he would see the cold-blooded killer that he is.

And remember the testimony even throughout the trial with respect to his partner coming in and saying he was theatrical in the courtroom, he knew how to put on a performance, that was really testimony aimed at the jury to say, hey, look, disbelieve what he is telling to you. He's trying to emotionally connect with you it serves his purpose, but when it doesn't serve his purpose, as we heard from the prosecutor, now you see the cold-blooded killer. And so I think that was lost upon anyone. Last point, Erica, and that's this. Pivoting to what the judge said, which was compelling about the lies, the defense filed what is called alibi notice. What does that mean? It means that your client is going to, right, have an alibi defense, going to establish that I wasn't even there, and, in fact, that's what they were going with until, oh, never mind, there is video that shows that I am there.

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So, the judge said, who are you, which harkens back finally to the point you made, Erica, which is, hey, you know what, maybe you didn't kill him, as the judge noted, maybe the person who you have become killed him, and so, therefore, the judge did, of course, what he had to do, and that was issue the two consecutive life sentences.

SCIUTTO: Well, that 180 clearly influenced the juror who spoke to ABC News this morning, just this idea he initially denied he was there and then the video proved he was there.

I wonder, the multiple the judge, Sarah Ford, referenced how ingrained Alex Murdaugh and his family were in the community, the picture of the grandfather at the back of the courthouse, the fact that Murdaugh had practiced law before the judge in cases prior to this. They knew each other. They saw each other at events. This is a family that for a century deeply involved in the meeting out of the law in this community here, in these counties here. In your experience, have you ever seen a case like this, where someone -- a lawyer who argued cases like this is now in the docket and has now convicted in less than three hours and is now going to prison for the rest of his life?

FORD: I have never seen a case like this before. Seeing someone who was so prominent in the legal community in South Carolina, Alex was the president of the Trial Lawyers Association here in South Carolina, extremely well-respected trial lawyer and a successful trial lawyer. And to see him go from trying cases in the Colleton County courtroom to being led out by law enforcement in chains is a tremendous fall jump, as Justin Bamberg called it, jump from grace. It's incredible to watch.

HILL: There were requests for mistrial. The judge said, look, the evidence is overwhelming, not going to happen, not going to grant in this trial.

He did, though, Joey, this more, he did reference in talking to Alex Murdaugh. At the beginning of the sentencing, judge saying, you have no obligation to say anything other than not guilty. We are expecting an appeal here. I would not expect a confession. In terms of an appeal, how do you see that playing out?

JACKSON: Yes. So, there is an appealable issue, which quite significant, and that relates to all the testimony concerning his financial fraud. There was a dispute as to whether or not the judge should permit and allow evidence concerning his financial, really, misrepresentations, the lies and everything else to the clients. Defense saying, hey, number one, it's not relevant to murder, number two, it's so prejudicial. That is a term that we lawyers used to say that, listen, even if the jury doesn't believe you murdered someone, given the fact that puts you and paints you in such a bad light, it reflects on your character, they're liable to find you guilty anyway. So, I think that is being the -- all of the introduction concerning the financial crimes that he wasn't on trial for, it's fertile for an appeal.

Last point, having said that, there was, of course, a firm legal basis for the judge to permit it. You can permit evidence which goes to show motive. Remember the whole essence of the prosecution's case and setting the foundation was that Alex Murdaugh did this because the world was crumbling in, his financial crimes were being exposed, his family was learning about that. So, the prosecution says, hey, we should be permitted to put this before the jury, because that's what we're showing what's his motivation to commmitte these murders. But that will be central issue you want to appeal.

SCIUTTO: Well, we witnessed some court history, no question, this morning, quite a decision.

HILL: Joey Jackson, Sarah Ford, I appreciate you being with us this morning and throughout this trial as well.

We do want to get you caught up on a number of other stories that we are following on this Friday morning. Just ahead, the Justice Department rejecting former President Trump's sweeping claims of presidential immunity when it comes to civil lawsuits against him for January 6th. What the DOJ is now noting in a letter to the appeals court.

SCIUTTO: Plus, a plot to kill Jewish lawmakers in Michigan thwarted, hear from one of those officials as the suspect prepares to face a judge later today.

And later this hour, Nikki Haley is set to take her 2024 pitch to voters at the CPAC conference today. What the first lady, Jill Biden, is responding to Haley in an exclusive interview with CNN. What she thinks of the idea of giving older candidates mental competency tests.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: The Justice Department is rebutting former President Trump's claims of presidential immunity as he continues to fight civil lawsuits surrounding the January 6th insurrection.

HILL: The DOJ is now urging an appeals court to reject Trump's argument there, saying a president cannot be absolutely immune for speech on a matter of public concern if that speech incited violence.

CNN Senior Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid has the details on this. Paula, you're the lawyer, but I read this too to mean this was not official presidential business, it's not something that involved the Oval Office, and, therefore, your immunity does not apply. Is that correct? PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This is essentially what DOJ is getting at, because this is, of course, the first that they really weighed in on former President Trump's civil liability for his conduct on January 6th. And this all comes about as a result of lawsuits that were filed by some House Democratic lawmakers and some members of the Capitol police.

The last time the Supreme Court weighed in on this issue was about 40 years ago. And at that time, they ruled that presidents enjoy pretty much absolute immunity from civil damages arising from their acts as president. But when it comes to their speech as president, it is a little more murky.

And Justice Department acknowledges, like, look, this is a complicated issue and they say, we're not looking for some sweeping ruling on all presidential speech.

[10:30:04]

It's a unique circumstance and they are pushing for a narrow ruling on the issues that are present.