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Trump's Claims of Immunity in January 6 Lawsuits Urged to be Rejected by DOJ; First Lady Slams Haley's Calls for Competency Tests; Michigan AG, State Rep, Targeted in Plot to Kill Jewish Officials; Epic Winter Storm in Southern California. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 03, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAUL REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This is a unique circumstance. And they are pushing for a narrow ruling on the issues that are presented here. And this litigation is really in its early stages. The Justice Department is not coming out and saying, Former President Trump should be liable, they're not getting into it. They're just pushing back on the idea that he has some sweeping immunity and that all of these lawsuits should be thrown out.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Paula Reid, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also, with us to discuss, our own Norm Eisen, he's a CNN legal analyst and a former house judiciary special counsel in Trump's first impeachment trial. So, as we look at this, what it means moving forward. You did tweet last night that this signals a weakness for his likely defenses as we're looking further forward for it in the coming criminal case in Georgia. Is there something between the two that we can be looking at here? What did you mean by that?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT TRIAL AND SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS: I'm not ready to reach the bottom line, but it seems to me that Trump allegedly participating in an insurrection and an attempted coup cannot be within his presidential duties. So, if that is right, and I'm think that is where we are headed, and I appreciate that DOJ wanted to be as narrow possible. That means that he won't have a legal defense if charges are filed for similar alleged attempted coup activity as they Georgia with asking for fake votes and fake electors in that state.

So, it's a bad sign for Trump even though we have not reached that exact issue yet.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: OK. Regarding the Georgia case, the D.A. has a decision to make here, right, as to whether to indict or not indict. You and I have spoken, and you said in your view there are two paths here, kind of a light -- lighter indictment or a broader one. Can you describe those two bass (ph) just briefly and which one, do you think, is more likely given what we know.

EISEN: The D.A. faces a choice that every trial lawyer confronts, how to charge her case, Jim. She can charge it as a narrow case if she chooses to proceed against Trump. Really focusing on the statute in Georgia that prohibit the solicitation of election fraud. And say, well, we have this tape of Trump pressuring Georgia, just find 11,780 votes.

And we also know that Trump was involved in pushing for fake electoral certificates, that's the narrow case, or she can try to bring in the broader course of conduct to explain what happened in Georgia and even go beyond that conversation, that pressure conversation on January 2nd, the fake elector stuff, much of which happened in December to push forward to the consequences, January 6th, the insurrection. That, she would probably bring using the Georgia RICO Statute, that's the broader case.

She has a (INAUDIBLE) in the past for using RICO. So, I'm guessing if she charges, we may see the broader line of attack.

SCIUTTO: RICO, powerful in bringing down the mob, as well. Norm Eisen, thanks so much.

HILL: Still to come in "CNN Newsroom", the first lady speaking out after Nikki Haley's calls for competency tests over lawmakers after 75. Her thoughts on that suggestion next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

HILL: Today, two Republican presidential candidates are taking the stage at CPAC. Former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. convention, Nikki Haley and conservative, activist, and entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, both set to speak.

SCIUTTO: This as first lady, Jill Biden, has dismissed Haley's calls for competency test for lawmakers over the age of 75.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Nikki Haley, one of the Republican candidates is calling for mental competency tests for those politicians over the age 75. What did you think of that?

JILL BIDEN, U.S. FIRST LADY: That's ridiculous.

SAENZ: Would your husband ever take one of those?

BIDEN: I mean, we haven't even discussed -- we would never even discuss something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us now are CNN political commentators, Bakari Sellers and S.E. Cupp. Good to have you both on this morning. Jill Biden is not the only one to reject this, Former Vice-President Mike Pence, interestingly, and Bernie Sanders both disagree with Haley. But Bakari, I mean, whether these tests would ever actually happen or be realistic. I mean, this is -- this seems to be deliberate by Haley to draw attention to age, not just to Joe Biden, the Democrat, but of Donald Trump, the Republican front runner at this point.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: This is silly. And you can tell that someone in Nikki Haley's camp poll tested this and said, maybe you'll be able to get a reaction and a response, which she did. I mean, in this case, you have the first lady of the United States punching down to Nikki Haley on this issue.

But this is a silly, silly messaging point. And the fact that you're and you are running for the president, and this is the lone issue that people can attribute to your campaign is a fundamental problem.

[10:40:00]

I mean, we're talking about it. Jill Biden gave some reaction. I do think that the age of the candidate should be something that is discussed substantively.

SCIUTTO: Uh-huh.

SELLERS: I think the age of the members of Congress is something that should be discussed substantively. But this can't be your lone issue in running for president. And it is just a silly, silly messaging point.

HILL: S.E., would you agree to that point that -- I mean, I think there are a lot of people who would agree that we should be --

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No --

HILL: -- talking about age.

CUPP: No --

HILL: But do you agree with Bakari's point that this was maybe not -- I'm just going to -- I'm going to shut-up and let you talk, my friend.

CUPP: No, I mean -- I don't think it's silly at all. I think this is what normal people think about. When they're looking at two geriatric guys running for president or about to run for president, this is what normal people talk about. Are they too old? Are they mentally competent? They look at Donald Trump, seemingly rant and rave, you know, on his social media and they wonder if he is all there. I think sometimes people wonder Joe Biden's in his, you know, at his peak or in his prime as it were.

I think that's completely normal. And to make a difference, to make a signature part of your campaign at least in the beginning, about the fact that you are younger, I don't think that's dumb. I don't think it needs to come with, like, generational ideas. Is it just your age that you're bringing or a new --

SELLERS: Something new. CUPP: -- generational -- some approach or some policies or some principles, perspectives that are generationally new. She has yet to delineate those.

SCIUTTO: Listen --

HILL: Right, back it up with something.

SCIUTTO: -- we've had this -- go back about 40 years ago.

CUPP: YES.

SCIUTTO: 1984, it was an issue in Ronald Reagan's run for a second term with which -- you know, with Mondale. So, we've seen that question. But we've also seen how Bakari Sellers, a million candidates say they are the campaign of new ideas, new leadership. I mean, that was Gary Hart's campaign right before it imploded.

CUPP: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Not to mention a certain senator, John F. Kennedy, you know, 60 years ago. That's not a new argument. But Bakari, you need to put some meat on the bones, I assume.

SELLERS: Yes, and that's my point. The silly part, I agree with S.E. substantively that the age of our candidates -- and it's not the age that we're talking about, it's the fitness to do the job is at issue that everyone should take in the office, take into consideration whether or not you're running for dog catcher to president of the United States. My problems is that when you make the issue of competency test and you're not -- generational change or generational ideas, I mean, you know, we had another tall skinny guy from Hawaii by way of candidacy who had funny ears and a funny name, like myself, who ran on those -- that type of generational change, right?

SCIUTTO: Uh-huh.

SELLERS: Who ran on that generational hope. If Nikki wants to do that, that's fine. What's silly though was saying, because you're 75 you should take a test. No. Talk about your ideas and how your ideas are going to put food on the table, get us out of the never-ending wars, make sure people have a livelihood, make sure we -- you know, do things for our criminal justice system, talk about that general change -- generational change. Not competency tests.

HILL: In terms of change, in terms of ideas, S.E. CPAC happening right now, as we mentioned, is set to hear from Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy. But it's changed a lot. I think the conversation we keep having over the last couple of days is this still relevant? I think I know where you stand on that, but in terms of putting ideas out there, what do they need to do to bring more people over?

CUPP: I just think it's funny to use the word ideas when we talk about CPAC because, you know, it used to be a convention of ideas as the Republican Party used to be a party of ideas. And you'd go to CPAC and all the desperate, sort of, fiefdoms of conservativism would meet and discuss ideas, like the debt and the deficit, and national defense, stuff like that.

Now, they have jettisoned to the conservatism and the idea for WOKE, you know, anti-WOKE nonsense, like, there's a panel this week called No Chinese Balloons Over Tennessee, or the Biden Crime Family. These are not ideas. These are bumper stickers and just stuff to get, you know, the base riled up and angry.

So, the Republican Party represented by CPAC is not interested in bringing new people in -- I mean, I guess unless you're Tulsi Gabbard or Viktor Orban. They're really just interested in doubling and tripling down on this concentrated base that Trump has created over the past five, six, seven, eight years that's really only loyal to Trumpism. The conservativism is gone. The ideas are gone. It's really about grievance and anger.

SCIUTTO: Well, to the point where folks running for president for the Republican nomination for president 2024 are not attending CPAC.

CUPP: Aren't going.

SCIUTTO: And some have made that choice. S.E. Cupp, Bakari Sellers, always good to have you both on.

SELLERS: Thank you.

[10:45:00]

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the man accused of threatening to kill Jewish government officials in Michigan is set to appear in court today. We'll have the latest details on the investigation and the suspect, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: The man accused of killing Jewish officials in Michigan is due in court this afternoon. Federal authorities say, Jack Carpenter III, posted about his plot on Twitter last month. The FBI also saying he wrote posts supporting an anti-government extremist movement that is classified as domestic terrorism.

[10:50:00]

SCIUTTO: CNN Correspondent Josh Campbell is covering this. He's also a senior adjunct -- senior fellow researching extremism at the Center for New American Security. Josh, I wonder what you're learning from law enforcement sources about how far along this plot was based on what he's telling police during his interrogation and how unusual is it for someone to post this plot on social media?

JOHS CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is unusual. We have seen those in certain circumstances where a suspect will actually telegraph what's about to happen. Obviously, you know, law enforcement tells us that those who are sophisticated in their plotting don't typically telegraph, but it does happen. And what's interesting here is it's not just that tweet that came to the attention of law enforcement, which is how they first locked on to this suspect. But law enforcement source tells me that after he was arrested during an interview, he admittedly listed a number of officials in Michigan, Jewish officials, that he wanted to target. And the source told me that, look, you know, the FBI doesn't keep a database of the political affiliations of politicians. And so, they immediately went to Jewish community leaders in Michigan to try to identify potential victims. That's what's called the so-called duty to warn.

When I was working counterterrorism investigations, if we came across a piece of information indicating there's a potential threat to someone, it was incumbent upon us to let that person know. Now, among those who the suspect listed during that interview was the attorney general there in Michigan, Dana Nessel, she just now spoke out during a committee hearing on gun safety, about what it was like to be a target. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA NESSEL, MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's also not lost on me that as I sit here before you today, a mentally disturbed man awaits court proceedings in Detroit based on threats he made to use his arsenal of firearms to murder me. Had the defendant not actually taken these threats and posted them online, do you know there would be nothing the police could do about it than to wait and see if he executed his plot to kill me and others because we don't have any Red Flag laws in the states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, let me walk our viewers briefly through the timeline here because this shows a lot of investigative work that was done in a short period of time. On February the 18th, the FBI's national threat operations center, this is the national clearing house for FBI tips. They see this tweet, they notify FBI agents in Detroit who then locate and identify and interview the suspect's mother. She gives them a phone number for the suspect.

This is interesting, they go to AT&T, the FBI tells AT&T, we need you to immediately ping that phone. We need to know where the suspect is. AT&T provides records indicating he was in North Texas, he is arrested. And again, as you mentioned, he is expected back in court later today. This, of course, the latest in a series of these antisemitic threats that we've seen which certainly has the Jewish committee unsettled and certainly law enforcement on edge, guys.

SCIUTTO: No, question. Josh Campbell, thanks so much for covering.

Coming up, tens of millions under a severe storm threat as a massive system shifts east today. This, as people are still digging out from a massive snowfall out in California. We're going to have a look at those efforts just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00] SCIUTTO: Right now, the California National Guard is heading to the San Bernardino Mountains to help dig out from epic amounts of snowfall where you really would not expect it.

HILL: Yes, definitely not. And we're talking about a lot of them, some seven feet -- more than seven, actually, in some places. Here's CNN's Camila Bernal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEREK HAYES, STRANDED IN SNOW (voiceover): First, I was really frustrated. But now, it's to the point where we were somewhat scared.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Derek Hayes trapped in the mountains of Southern California after an epic winter storm.

HAYES: There's nowhere to put the snow. There's no way to walk around it. You know, it's up to my neck in a lot of places. You take a step, you sink all the way down, you have to crawl yourself back out of the snow to try to get on top of it. Even move around.

BERNAL (voiceover): Derek, just one of the many who were stranded.

HANNAH WHITEOAK, STRANDED IN SNOW: It's unfathomable.

BERNAL (voiceover): The only thing they can do is wait for help.

CHARLENE BERMUDEZ, STRANDED IN SNOW: It's just crazy. There's no way to get out anywhere.

BERNAL (voiceover): Their concerns, food, heat, medical emergencies, or medicine, and food for their pets, just to name a few. These San Bernardino mountains do get plenty of snow in the winter, but the past few weeks have been unprecedented with the National Weather Service issuing its first ever blizzard warning.

ROMAN DURAN, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL: Our main concern right now, is to try to get the infrastructure up the mountain to be able to clear some of these roadways so that we can essentially get, you know, the people that live up there back to their houses, and the people that are stuck up there back down.

BERNAL (voiceover): Emergency crews, so far, carrying out roughly 100 rescues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a lot of ice.

BERNAL (voiceover): Governor Gavin Newsom also declaring a state of emergency for San Bernardino County and 12 others, activating the national guard. Residents say, lives are in danger.

BERMUDEZ: We were actually going to be getting a neighbor out of his house. He's a cancer patient who is elderly and he has a doctor's appointment that he's going to try and get to.

BERNAL (voiceover): Some have ben shoveling non-stop. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dig out the truck for the fourth time.

BERNAL (voiceover): But not all are able to do so.

WHITEOAK: It's one of the roughest, roughest experiences and -- but you still go into survival mode and you just keep pushing through. You know, I feel incredible bad for anyone that hasn't got that physical presence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That's really something. Really something.