Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Visits Selma To Honor Civil Rights March 58 Years Later; Trump Vows Retribution During CPAC Remarks; Fighting Intensifies In Bakhmut As Ukraine Holds Off Russian Forces; Trump Wins CPAC Straw Poll With 62 Percent Of Vote, DeSantis Gets 20 Percent. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 05, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Now out of Selma, Alabama. President Biden is expected to give a speech at any moment now. He's marking the 58th anniversary of the Bloody Sunday civil rights march. And we'll take those remarks live as it happens.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jim Acosta right now.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I am Jim Acosta in Washington.

Right now, in Selma, Alabama, you're looking live as President Joe Biden is about to honor the heroes of Bloody Sunday. A painful but galvanizing moment in the civil rights movement. It was 58 years ago that white deputies and state troopers violently turned on peaceful demonstrators. They were beginning a 54-mile march to Montgomery, the state capital, to call for equal voting rights for African-Americans.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now from Selma. This is obviously an important trip for the president. What can you tell us?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, President Biden's purpose here in Selma, Alabama, today is really two-fold. The White House has said that he wants to commemorate the day, the events of Bloody Sunday 58 years ago so that they will not be erased from America's memory.

The president will be speaking in just a short while with a backdrop of the Edmund Pettis Bridge right behind him, that bridge where civil rights and voting rights activists crossed 58 years ago and were severely beaten by many white officers. One of those activists at the time was the late Congressman John Lewis.

Now the president in his remarks today is also expected to once again try to put the spotlight on the need for voting rights legislation. In the 2020 campaign, that was one of the really central tenets, one of main promises that President Biden made to voters, that he would try to enact new voting rights protections for Americans across the country. But so far the legislative action up on Capitol Hill has simply been stalled. They were unable to pass two pieces of legislation in the Democratic-

controlled House and Senate. That was the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, then another For the People Voting Rights Bill as well. And now they're facing an even more uphill climb as Republicans have control of the House.

And while the president has advocated and tried to stress the need for voting rights legislation, there have been many activists who have been frustrated with the inability to actually get anything across the finish line up on Capitol Hill. So here in Selma, Alabama, the president is expected to renew his call for more voting rights legislation.

I will also note that the president is visiting a community that was devastated by tornadoes back in January. The president could potentially speak to that as well. That's another issue that's been facing so many people here in Selma, Alabama.

ACOSTA: OK. Very good, Arlette Saenz. Keep us posted on the president's progress. We'll bring you the president's comments to you live when they happen and we'll get back to Arlette. Thank you so much.

President Biden's visit to Selma comes one day after former President Trump headlined the Conservative Political Action Conference over in Maryland, just outside of Washington, D.C. In his nearly two-hour speech, Trump lashed out at the president and Republicans, lamented ongoing investigations into himself, and vowed he won't drop out of the race if he's indicted and signaled what he might do if he's elected once again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In 2016 I declared I am your voice. Today I add, I am your warrior, I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining me now to talk about this, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro and Republican strategist Doug Heye.

Ana, it sounds like Donald Trump is on a revenge tour. What do you think?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: God help us if he gets elected president. And I think he is feeling cornered, I think he's feeling backed into a corner. I think he's probably very angry by what he sees as the disloyalty of people whose careers he made like Ron DeSantis or who he actually employed and (INAUDIBLE) like Mike Pompeo, like Mike Pence, like Nikki Haley, who are all either declared or indicating they will declare to run against him for president.

And so I think what you are seeing is a lot of sour grapes, a lot of bitterness, a lot of resentment, a lot of anger from Donald Trump. Then again, nothing new with that.

ACOSTA: I mean, how do you see it? Yes -- no, exactly. And, Doug, how do you see it? I mean, there weren't a whole lot of surprises out of Trump's speech last night. This is exactly what we expected him to say. You can't even fact check it because there were so many inaccuracies and falsehoods and flat-out lies in the speech. But this idea that he's going to be, you know, out for revenge running for president, I mean, I suppose that's kind of different in someone trying to seek the highest office in the land again.

[16:05:11]

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it's different than what we previously we're used to, but a lot of this is what we heard from Donald Trump when he first ran for president. I remember Jesse Ventura's campaign was retaliate in '98. That actually is a lot of the rhetoric that we saw from Donald Trump, and why he was effective.

You know, he talks about people who were wronged and betrayed. Well, that certainly is the argument right now in East Palestine, Ohio. You could say that's the argument for what happened in Flint, Michigan, what's happening in Jackson, Mississippi, as well.

The one time, Jim, I talked to the Trump campaign in the 2015, 2016 campaign was to say, you know, if Donald Trump is the first politician, not Republican, first politician to go to Flint, Michigan, you reset that race. And his messaging on that is what the hell do you have to lose on that could have resonated. Unfortunately he waited a long time, as did too many other Republicans to go there.

ACOSTA: Right. And, Ana, I mean, Larry Hogan, the former governor of Maryland, Republican, he made the news this morning that he's not going to be seeking the presidential nomination, in part because he worries about a crowded primary process potentially, you know, clearing the field for Donald Trump and helping him win the presidency again.

Is he right about that? I mean, it seems to me that at some point somebody is going to have to confront Donald Trump if they're going to want to win that Republican nomination. You saw Nikki Haley and Mike Pompeo this past week sort of tap dancing around Trump, not really going after him by name. What do you think?

NAVARRO: You know, I'm sorry Larry Hogan's voice is not going to be at these debates and is not going to be part of the Republican field because I think he's been so constructive, so unifying and so productive as mayor of Maryland. I hope that there will be voices maybe Asa Hutchinson, maybe Liz Cheney, who won't be that kind of Republican, offering ideas, offering solutions, offering truth, fact- checking Donald Trump's truth.

There's got to be somebody that is not tainted by Trump that can stand up and call a lie a lie and call a truth a truth. And I hope that there is -- that one of those voices is part of this, but I do think Larry Hogan makes a very good point. We saw this movie already. We saw it in 2016. We saw what a very crowded Republican field did then in the primaries, opening up a big, wide swath for Donald Trump to walk through. And I understand.

ACOSTA: Yes. Ana and Doug, I hate to interrupt. We're going to go to the president. Stick around. We'll talk again on the other side.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hey, everybody. How are you? Selma's here. Before I begin, please have a seat if you have one. I once said that have a seat if you have one and the press said they don't have seats. He didn't even -- he's so stupid, he didn't know that. Those folks might not have them back there but you all do here.

Folks, look, there's a lot to say. I'm going to try not to say very much in terms of length of time. But I want to say a few things. It was mentioned that we should be working for the people of Africa. For years I was chairman of the African Affairs Subcommittee in the United States Senate, and we've invested -- my wife just got back from Zambia and Namibia. She's there all the time. We just made sure we have billions of dollars committed to build Africa.

Angola is going to have the largest solar facility in all of Africa. We're investing in Africa because Africa is important and because everything happening in there will affect us. So, folks, that's number one.

Number two, I want to make sure that -- you know, I've told the mayor I think mayor is being the toughest job in America. But one of the mayors who took some time to come and help me put together my program, Keisha Lance Bottoms.

Keisha, would you stand up?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: From Atlanta. She's understandably going home because she's got some kids and it's about time. She promised she'd stay as long as she did, and she did. But we got another mayor coming, too. So, anyway, thank you very much, Keisha.

And, folks, you know, the last time I was here, my daughter is a social worker, Ashley Biden was with me. She couldn't be with me today. She wanted to because she's working on a project for battered women up in Delaware and Philadelphia. So she sends her best.

"On this stage, the children of God started a journey. Walking, not saying a word. Beaten, tear-gassed. On this bridge, blood was given to help redeem the soul of America."

Last time he was here, I was with him, John Lewis. They were his words.

Mayor Perkins, Congresswoman Terri Sewell, members of Congress, all of you who are here, Charles Mauldin and all the foot soldiers of Selma, distinguished guests, you are among the final words of our dear friend John Lewis, delivered as he stood on the bridge over troubled waters three years ago.

[16:10:15] I had the privilege to stand here with him. Words that give meaning to the past and purpose to the future. I've been on this bridge before as vice president, as a candidate for president. I was even here before as a senator. Because history matters. And now I'm here as your president.

The truth matters, notwithstanding what the other team is trying to hide. They're trying to hide the truth. No matter how hard some people try, we can't just choose to learn what we want to know and not what we should know. We should learn everything. The good, the bad, the truth of who we are as a nation. And everyone should know the truth of Selma.

Six hundred believers put faith in action to march across that bridge named after the Grand Dragon of the KKK. They were on their way to the state capitol in Montgomery to claim their fundamental right to vote, laid in the bedrock of our Constitution but stolen by hate, harbored in too many hearts.

With unflinching courage, foot soldiers for March for Justice marched through the valley of the shadow of death, and they feared no evil. The forces of hate conspired to demise, but they endured. They forced the country to confront the hard truths and to act to keep the promise of America alive.

I was a student up north in the Civil Rights Movement. I remember feeling how guilty I was. I wasn't here. How could we all be up there and you going through what you went through, looking at those -- I can still picture, I you can still picture the troopers with their batons and wands and whips.

A promise that declares we're all created and deserve to be treated equally. Two weeks later, they marched to Montgomery with Dr. King, an even bigger coalition of people from different races and faiths. Five months later, the Voting Rights Act was signed into law five months later.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: But as I come here in commemoration, not for show, Selma is a reckoning. The right to vote, the right to vote, to have your vote counted, is the threshold of democracy and liberty. With it, anything is possible. Without it, without that right, nothing is possible. And this fundamental right remains under assault. The conservative Supreme Court has gutted the Voting Rights Act over the years.

Since the 2020 election, a wave of states and dozens, dozens of anti- voting laws fueled by the big lie and the election deniers now elected to office. The new law here in Alabama, among other things, enacted a new congressional map that discriminated against black voters by failing to include what should have been a new predominately black district.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: That case, as you all know better than I, is in front of the U.S. Supreme Court. And my U.S. Department of Justice has joined many of you in arguing that the map violates the Voting Rights Act. All of this after a deadly insurrection on January the 6th. We must remain vigilant. In January, I signed the Electoral Count Reform Act to protect the will of the people and the people transferring and the peaceful transfer of power.

But we know that we must get the votes in Congress to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act and the Freedom to Vote Act. I've made it clear I will not let a filibuster obstruct the sacred right to vote and the right of any other right that flow from there.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: And that's why if we follow the words that you all have, the words of Dr. King, he said, "Give us the ballot, and we will place judges on the bench, who will do justly." Led by Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and more black women appointed to the federal appellate court than every other president in history has done, we're about to do that.

(APPLAUSE)

[16:15:03]

BIDEN: After Senate Republicans blocked the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act last year, I did what was in my power. I signed an executive order requiring all the key elements of the bill applied to federal law enforcement. I couldn't make at the states. Banning chokeholds, greatly restricting no-knock warrants, establishing a database for police misconduct, advancing effective and accountable community policing that builds public trust. And we'll keep fighting to pass the reform nationwide.

Folks, well, we passed the most significant gun safety law in 30 years, but I'm not ready to stop, nor is Jim Clyburn or anybody else up there ready to stop. I led the effort when I was a senator to pass the assault weapons ban. And we banned the assault -- we're going to ban assault weapons again. They matter. When we had the ban, fewer people died. Fewer mass shootings.

And together, we're saying loud and clearly that in America hate and extremism will not prevail, although they are rearing their ugly head with significance now. Silence, as the saying goes, silence is complicity. And I promise you my administration will not remain silent. I promise you.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: The task before us is about justice, but it's also about jobs, financial stability, the ability to generate generational wealth. It's about hope, self-worth. It's about dignity. And that's why we're building an economy that I've been significantly criticized for, but I make no apologies. That grows the economy from the bottom up and the middle out, not from the top down.

We weren't poor, but we weren't wealthy. We were a typical middle- class family with a three-bedroom home and four kids, and a grandpop living with us. I don't remember anything trickling down on my dad's kitchen table with the trickle-down economic problems. Because when we do that, we build from the middle out and the bottom up, the poor have a ladder up, the middle class does very well, and the wealthy still do well. We all do well.

But we know there's work to do, especially as you recover from this devastating tornado and the storms that hit in January. That's why, working with Terri and the mayor, I issued a major disaster declaration immediately, committing the federal government to cover 100 percent of the debris removal.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: We also are paying for temporary housing and home repairs, supporting local businesses, small businesses, as well as doing in other towns devastated as you have been. To date, we've provided $8 million in recovery, and we're just getting started the rebuilding effort. And we're here, we'll be here as long as it takes.

The first major bill we passed without a single vote from the other team was the American Rescue Plan, when I was sworn in. That has provided $60 million to Selma and Dallas County directly. One of the things, having been a county official for two years, I learned a long time ago: I didn't like anything that went through the state legislature.

Oh, I'm not joking. They're good people, but they all want a piece of it. If it was supposed to come to my county, it better damn well come to my county directly. So this is going directly to your county, directly to your city, to keep teachers, nurses, police officers, firefighters on the job.

Selma is also benefitting from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, which is a multi, multibillion-dollar commitment to rebuild this country. How can we be the leading economy in the world if we don't have the best roads, ports, and so on? How can we be that? Well, guess what? It's the largest investment in infrastructure since Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System.

Here in Selma, we're funding major water projects, removing over 800 poisonous lead pipe service lines that are over 100 years old because every child should be able to turn on a faucet and drink clean water without fear of getting sick.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: And it's also going to deliver affordable high-speed Internet to every single home in this county and this city. And no parent -- so no parent, God forbid another pandemic, is going to have to sit in the McDonald's parking lot to use their Internet to be able to get no -- have their kid's homework be done.

Look, and in the process, these kinds of investments are going to create good-paying jobs. Most of these jobs don't require college degrees. They'll be able to hire here, hire in your community. And, by the way, the unemployment rate for African-Americans under my administration is the second lowest it's ever been in all of American history, and we're going to continue to make sure that happens.

(APPLAUSE)

[16:20:09]

BIDEN: And, by the way, I'm the only president, I've learned, that had permanent offices in the White House for the Divine Nine and the HBCUs.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: I figured it out, man. I figured it out.

Now, I know that the vice president thinks that Howard is the best. Delaware State University, where I come from. But all kidding aside, we've contributed billions of dollars to put HBCUs in a position because they don't have -- I mean it seriously, billions of dollars because they don't have the kind of trust funds that the major schools have.

So guess what? It leaves out an awful lot of qualified African- Americans at HBCUs from learning how to deal with cybersecurity, learning how to deal with all the stuff in the future. Guess what? Right now, now they have that. And I'm able, as the president of the United States, to award these contracts directly there, because they have the lab. I'm serious. It's a big deal.

There's a lot more we're doing for Selma and cities like it all across America. When I passed the Inflation Reduction Act, which, again, the other team didn't participate at all, which allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time.

Do you realize, in America, we pay more for prescription drugs than any nation in the world? You hear me? More. And I've been fighting this for the last 25 years. But guess what? We finally beat big pharma.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: So, now -- oh, man, you have no idea how good I felt about that one. Because what's happened? What happened is now Medicare can say, we are not going to pay you more than $35, instead of $400, for that insulin that you need. And guess what that means? Not only -- not only it reduced prices for people who need help, but it reduces the federal budget by $158 billion.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: You know, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. In addition to that, when we reduced the cost of insulin for seniors on Medicare, we got a commitment. Initially, I proposed that we reduce it for anybody needing that insulin. Well, guess what? The other team voted that down, too. But along came -- along came the largest maker of insulin in the country. They, as they said, seen the Lord. They saw a light.

And here's the deal, I'm not kidding. Ely Lilly, one of the biggest drugmakers of insulin, they just announced they're going to cap the cost of all their insulin to $35.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: And guess what that means? No other company is going to be able to charge more than that because no one is going to buy it. For everyone else with diabetes, that's going to help 500,000 folks in Alabama today.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: We're on this. And it's going to reduce the price from somewhere between four and 600 bucks a month to $35 a month. So let's finish the job. Lower the price for everyone, including the 200,000 children with type 1 diabetes across this country. But there's more work to do. We'll protect Social Security and Medicare, and we'll protect -- did you -- by the way, did you see that State of the Union address?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.

BIDEN: I said, that means all you guys are against cutting Medicare and Social Security? Oh, yes. Well, in my religion, we go, bless me, Father. That's a wonderful thing.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: Look, Medicaid is critically important to people that are having trouble making it. And the Affordable Care Act, we increased the available money by 800 bucks for those folks. We're going to make sure we protect those two to make sure they get the care they need.

Look, we need to reward work, not just wealth, because no -- the idea -- you know, we used to have about 670 billionaires in America. Now we have about a thousand. Do you realize they pay a lower tax rate than your police officers or the people driving that ambulance? They pay a lower tax rate than hardworking folks. I think you should be able to make a trillion dollars.

Just pay your fair share, Jack. No, I mean it. And there's no -- and, by the way, we'll also cut the deficit if we have them begin to pay their fair share.

Look, with Terri's leadership, let's make sure working parents in Selma and across the country have a living wage.

[16:25:04]

There should be sick days available, paid family and medical leave. We're the only country in the nation -- in the world that doesn't have it. Affordable childcare and eldercare, it saves money. Let's restore the full Child Tax Credit.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: And, by the way, that cut -- that cut black child poverty in half and gave tens of millions of parents some breathing room, including almost a million folks in Alabama. I was telling the mayor on the way over, my dad was a hardworking guy, a real gentleman, a decent man. He never got a college degree. He never got to go to college. It was the great regret he had. But know what he used to say, for real, I'm sorry I always quote my dad, but he -- it's worth saying it.

He'd say, Joey, remember, a job is about a lot more than a paycheck. It's about your decency. It's about respect. It's about being able to look your kid in the eye and say, Honey, it's going to be okay. It's so easy to make that happen without any fundamental changes. But they're not letting us up to now.

With HUD Secretary Marcia Fudge -- Marcia, you're here, aren't you? There you are.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: She's my secretary of Housing and Urban Affairs. Look, she's leading the way on housing discrimination and affordable, quality housing.

My message to you is this. We see you. We're fighting to make sure no one is left behind. This is a time of choosing, and we need everybody engaged. We know history does not look kindly on those who deny the march across the bridge to redeem the soul of America.

Let me close with this. In many of your faith traditions, Sunday is the Sabbath, a day of rest. But on that Sunday morning, on March 7th, 1965, Amelia Boynton Robinson and 600 of her fellow children of God chose different pews.

On this bridge of her beloved Selma, they were called to the altar of democracy, unsure of their fate but certain that the cause was righteous. So she would go on to say, quote, "You can never know where you're going unless you know where you've been." We know where we have been.

And, my fellow Americans, on this Sunday of our time, we know where we've been and we know, more importantly, where we have to go, forward together.

So let's pray, but let's not rest. Let's keep marching. Let's keep the faith. But most of all, let's remember who we are. We're the United States of America, and there's nothing -- nothing beyond our capacity when we act together. So let's go and finish the job.

God bless you all. And may God bless our troops.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

ACOSTA: That was President Biden wrapping up his speech there in Selma, Alabama, on this anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Let's go straight to CNN's Arlette Saenz.

Arlette, if you're there, if you can hear me, I mean, I think what we heard from the president there, you know, he returned to this theme that we hear so often from the president when he's giving speeches. He talks about the soul of this country, and I'm being told right now that Arlette is not going to be able to join us, we're having some communication issues there. But you heard the president there just a few moments ago, linking a theme that he talks about frequently out during speeches to audiences.

He's talking about restoring the soul of America. And, you know, he linked it to the march there in Selma and the sacrifices made by the late Congressman John Lewis and so many others in the civil rights movement. And the president obviously making a pitch for some of his agenda items as well.

One of the things that we're going to be seeing here over the next several minutes is the president and other civil rights leaders there gathered in Alabama walking across the Edmund Pettus Bridge.

Do we have Arlette? Perhaps we could go back to Arlette if she's up there for us.

So, Arlette --

SAENZ: I'm here.

ACOSTA: I hope everybody was able to bear with me there doing a little tap dancing there until we got you up in front of the camera. But, Arlette, we're looking at the president now. He's with the other civil leaders gathered in Selma. But I was just saying a few moments ago, I don't think you heard me, but it sounded as though the president was trying to link a theme that we've heard so often from him which is restoring the soul of America to the sacrifices made there in Selma, Alabama.

And this theme that he goes back to over and over again, that is protecting American democracy. He was really linking the sacrifices on Bloody Sunday in Selma to maintaining and strengthening American democracy. What stood out to you?

[16:30:03]

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, he really was, Jim. That argument of trying to restore the soul of America was central to his presidential campaign. And he tried to talk about how that moment on Bloody Sunday 58 years ago was also another moment where there was a battle for the soul of America.

And he said that, now what must be done is to remember these moments, events that played out like --

ACOSTA: Oh, and there, I think we just lost Arlette Saenz there. This -- I will tell you, as a former White House Correspondent out on the campaign trail with presidential candidates, when an event like this wraps up, on occasion, communications can be a mess. And that is what we're seeing there.

But let me just show you some of the pictures there as we get ready to head to a break. And that is the President, I find it striking just a few moments ago, he was there with Reverend Jesse Jackson, who we don't see out in public very often, Martin Luther King III, obviously the son of Reverend Martin Luther King.

And so, I mean, you just really see all the stars of the American civil rights movement there on the scene there in Selma. And Arlette, I believe you're back with me. Arlette, we're going to try it one more time. Give it the old college try. Arlette, your thoughts?

All right, you know what? We lost Arlette again. This happens a lot, folks, during these kinds of things. There you see the President shaking hands, talking to folks there in Selma after the conclusion of his remarks.

We'll take a quick break. We'll reset. We'll come back, and the former Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, is expected to join us as well as others. And we'll talk about the President's visit to Selma and other things on the nation's agenda for today. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:50]

ACOSTA: Ukrainian forces say they still control a key highway in and out of the besieged eastern city of Bakhmut, but they've been battling Russian troops there for months. The destruction in the city is now nearly complete, with Russian forces claiming to have Bakhmut surrounded on three sides.

Ukrainian officials say evacuations have slowed to a trickle. Just up to 4500 civilians remain, it's been estimated officials say only 5 to 10 residents are leaving each day. And joining me now, former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta to talk about this.

Mr. Secretary, always great to have you on. It does seem to be a critical time for Ukrainian forces around Bakhmut after so many months of fighting to take control of that area. How much of a political prize is this for Russia if they can seize this part of Ukraine?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, there's no question that there's a psychological impact when the Russians are able to gain anything in the Ukraine these days. I'm not sure it's that important, a strategic military target because it's been destroyed by the Russians and turned into ashes. And so I understand the game of trying to gain any territory you can. But I think this is more of a preliminary step for both sides in terms of kind of getting ready for the next chapter in this war, which is going to involve some serious offensives on both sides. Not just Russia, but I think Ukraine will conduct an offensive. And I think it's going to be a critical moment that will tell us a lot about the future of this war.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And let's talk about China, came up a lot on the Sunday talk shows earlier today. And I have to ask you this. In a draft budget report released this morning, China unveiled its annual military budget for this year, which shows an increase of just over 7% to roughly $224 billion.

China keeps ramping things up on the military front. How much of a concern does this need to be for the intelligence community, for the Pentagon moving forward, do you think?

PANETTA: Well, we have to pay attention to what China is doing. Obviously, China is not just a competitor in the world, but in many ways, they're an adversary in the world. And we have to pay attention to the amount of money they're putting into defense, into space, what they're doing in terms of militarizing the South China Sea, their threats to Taiwan. So it is of concern.

And our intelligence officials, our military officials have to constantly analyze what steps China is taking in order to be prepared to counter whatever they do. Look, the only way to deal with China is from strength.

So it's very important that the United States make very clear where the lines are in terms of Taiwan, in terms of the South China Sea, in terms of just their defense buildup and where it's should go.

Ultimately, you would hope that we could reestablish some kind of dialogue with China, but we're not there yet. And I suspect we're probably going to go through a very tense period in our relationship before hopefully we're able to talk to one another.

ACOSTA: And I hate to ask you about politics, but let me do that. Former President Donald Trump, as you know, just won the very unscientific CPAC straw poll. Need to emphasize it's unscientific, but he is leading in just about all of the polls on the Republican side right now.

[16:40:00]

And I know it is very early in the process. But I have to ask you, what message would it send to the world if Trump were to somehow get back into the White House? You are, in addition to being a wise elder when it comes to national security and intelligence matters, you know this game as well as just about anybody, former White House Chief of staff and so on. Do you think Trump could do it again? And what does that say to the world that he's even in this position right now?

PANETTA: Well, I don't think we should kid ourselves. I think the reality is that he has support in the Republican Party and that he could very well be the candidate for the Republican Party.

I think it would be a terrible message to send to the world if, in fact, he is a candidate again for President of the United States, because I believe that his whole first America first approach to foreign policy, his desire to essentially withdraw from the world in terms of a leadership position for the United States would be devastating to our foreign policy at this point in time in the 21st Century. Look, in the end, I really believe that he's a loser and that even if

he gets the nomination, he will lose. But the mere fact that he would be nominated by the Republican Party would be a scary step in the 21st Century.

ACOSTA: And just a quick follow(-up), I mean, I think it would definitely mean a big change in terms of how the U.S. deals with Ukraine?

PANETTA: Oh, my God. You know, we've just gone through a few years where, fortunately, we've been able to reestablish the United States' role as a world leader. And I think President Biden basically said to the world that the United States is back. And he's kind of -- he's made very clear that the United States, working with our allies are going to be unified in confronting adversaries like Putin and China, North Korea, Iran, and others.

And we have to be unified in the world. Look, it's a dangerous world. It's going to require United States world leadership. And the last thing the United States needs to do is to elect somebody like Trump who doesn't want to be a world leader, who ignores the rest of the world. It would weaken the United States, and very frankly, it would be very dangerous for the world.

ACOSTA: All right. Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta. Great to see, as always, sir. Thanks so much.

PANETTA: Good to be with you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Good to be with you.

Breaking news right now from yesterday's train derailment in Ohio, a major development in what local officials are now saying about the presence of hazardous materials on that train. That's coming up.

Also ahead, the Justice Department says President Trump should not be immune from lawsuits over the January 6 attack on the Capitol. We'll talk about it with a former police officer who, you know, Michael Fanone. He's right there. We'll talk to him next live in the CNN Newsroom. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:47:48]

ACOSTA: I want to show you some live images from Selma, Alabama, where President Biden is moments away from crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge that is a landmark bridge in the struggle for civil rights in the United States.

Today is the anniversary of Bloody Sunday when police officers there beat civil rights marchers, including the late John Lewis, who went on to serve in Congress and became a civil rights hero in this country.

We're going to keep an eye on this. We're going to bring you images from that as it happens. This is a very important moment for President Biden. It shows so much in terms of love for the civil rights movement in this country when a president does this. We saw President Obama doing this a few years back and we'll see President Biden doing it in just a few moments.

In the meantime, it appears a big hurdle has been cleared in the push to hold former President Trump liable for injured police and members of Congress on January 6. The Justice Department says those civil cases should move forward and it's now up to a federal appeals court to rule on the matter.

CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Michael Fanone joins us now. He's also the author of Hold the Line and a former D.C. Metro police officer who was attacked at the Capitol on January 6. Mike, great to see you.

We don't know how the appeals court is going to come down on this, but what does this mean in terms of a step for officers like yourself who were badly injured on January 6? That you might be able to bring some lawsuits and at least get some kind of compensation out of this?

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Listen, I think that the initial ruling was appropriate, and I am a person that believes in some types of immunity for government officials. You know, as a police officer for two decades in Washington, D.C. I enjoyed a qualified immunity as a police officer.

The reality is, we live in a litigious society, and I think it's important to protect government officials, police officers, the President, from certain types of frivolous lawsuits. That being said, you know, my immunity stopped if I acted egregiously outside of, you know, the scope of my responsibilities as a police officer or if I violated departmental policy and protocols.

[16:50:12]

Inciting an insurrection is not one of the duties or responsibilities of the President in the United States. It's clear to me through Donald Trump's actions, his language and his inaction on January 6 and the weeks and months leading up to it, that he acted outside of the scope of his responsibilities as president, and so he should be susceptible to these lawsuits.

ACOSTA: I mean, to put it simply, Mike, you want to see him pay?

FANONE: Absolutely. I mean, listen, I'll be honest with you, I'm not a litigious person. And so I don't plan on suing the former president or anyone surrounding the January 6 insurrection. I don't have the patience for the legal process. And honestly, I'm looking for criminal accountability for Donald Trump.

But that being said, I would encourage any officer, any individual who feels as though they suffered at the hands of the former president or his supporters to file those lawsuits and sue him into submission.

ACOSTA: And one of those rioters pled guilty this week, this past week, to assaulting you on that day. His sentencing is scheduled for January 28. It's been more than two years since January 6. What is -- I mean, has justice moved quickly enough, in your view?

FANONE: I think the Department of Justice, you know, the frontline prosecutors and their supervisors have done a hell of a job. They were handed almost an impossible task prosecuting almost a thousand individuals who committed criminal acts on January 6 in addition to handling their regular responsibilities.

That being said, it's clear to me that accountability has not come swiftly enough for people like Donald Trump and the orchestrators of the January 6 insurrection.

ACOSTA: And I have to ask you this, because I mean this just happened last night. You know, Trump is leading in the polls. He just won this unscientific straw poll at CPAC. Other potential contenders are deciding against running, Governor Larry Hogan, former Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland just decided he's not going to run. It does -- I mean, it does look fairly likely at this point. I won't say certainly that Trump will be the Republican nominee in 2024. What does that tell you about where things stand right now?

FANONE: I mean, I've said it before, I've been all over the country in the past two years, and I refuse to accept the idea that, you know, the vast majority of Americans subscribe to this kind of extremist ideology whether on the right or the left. I think the vast majority of Americans are moderate in their ideology. That being said, too many Americans are indifferent to the pain and suffering that Donald Trump has caused and what it is that he actually represents.

You know, we've become way too tribal in our politics, and people are, I believe, supporting the Republican nominee simply because he's the Republican nominee, regardless of the fact that he's an insane person who is hell bent on destroying this country.

ACOSTA: All right. Michael Fanone hoping to see some justice for you. The other officers who were badly injured that day can't ever forget the sacrifices that you guys made up there defending this country, defending American democracy.

Mike, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Good talking to you.

FANONE: Thanks, buddy.

ACOSTA: All right. Thank you.

In the meantime, a deadly cancer is on the rise among younger Americans. Colorectal cancer is being seen more often in people younger than 55 years old. And CNN's Jacqueline Howard has more than a troubling report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Scientists say it's still a mystery as to what is driving this rise in colorectal cancer in younger ages. So many factors could play a role here, people's diet or cancer-causing elements in the environment. But what this means for the future? The American Cancer Society projects we'll see more than 150,000 people diagnosed with colorectal cancer this year, and more than 50,000 people will die from the disease this year. Many of those could be among young people.

When you look at the proportion of cases among ages younger than 55, that has been increasing over the years, going from 11% in 1995 to 20% in 2019.

[16:55:01]

And the proportion of all new cases that are advanced has been rising as well, from 57% in 1995 to 60% in 2019. The American Cancer Society's Chief Scientific Officer Dr. William Dahut told me that this means it's so important for people to get screened when eligible so we can catch cancers early. Have a listen.

DR. WILLIAM DAHUT, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC OFFICER, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: I think folks need to follow the guidelines for screening. I think there's clear evidence that if people follow guidelines for screening, they're more likely to find a cancer earlier where it's treatable and less likely to have a significant problem from the disease.

HOWARD: And for most people, it's recommended to start screening at age 45. And other ways to reduce your colorectal cancer risk ramp up your exercise, eat a healthy diet, stay at a healthy weight, watch how much alcohol you drink, and avoid smoking. All of those can play a role in living healthy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Jacqueline Howard, thank you.

In the meantime, President Biden is in Selma, Alabama today. We've been keeping an eye on this event all afternoon long, marking an historic anniversary of the civil rights movement, the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge.

A live report from Selma is coming up next. There's the President right there. We'll see him walk across the bridge in just a few moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)