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Desperate Search for 4 Americans Kidnapped at gunpoint in Mexico; Arrest Warrant Issued for Missing Jan. 6 Defendant from Florida; Mexican Governor: Missing Americans Found; 2 Dead, 2 Alive. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 07, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:01:16]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour this Tuesday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill. Thanks for joining us.

Right now, the search is on for four Americans kidnapped at gunpoint by members of a Mexican drug cartel that's happened just south of the border. Their worried family members speaking out this morning. Investigators also sharing more detail about that violent daylight abduction.

Plus, an arrest warrant has been issued for a Florida woman who's accused of taking part in the January 6 attack on the Capitol. This after she failed to appear in a Washington, D.C. court.

SCIUTTO: Also, the Biden administration is now weighing options at the southern border as it prepares for the end of Title 42, including potentially reinstating some policies immigration advocates call inhumane.

We do begin this hour with those four Americans kidnapped in Mexico. The family of one victim is now speaking out as they await for updates on the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZALAYNA GRANT, KIDNAPPING VICTIM ZINDELL BROWN'S SISTER: I felt a little uneasy because I told him I had a dream, you know, I said, so I'm just checking on you. That's what I told him Thursday. And then, like I said, Friday morning, I text and I didn't get anything.

CHRISTINA HICKSON, KIDNAPPING VICTIM ZINDELL BROWN'S MOTHER: I would have told him, don't go any further. The waiting is the worst part. It has advantages and disadvantages. But, however, no news is good news. That's the way I'm staying with it. No news is good news.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: CNN Correspondent Josh Campbell joining us now with more. So, Josh, what do we know at this hour about these Americans, where things stand?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, good morning to you. Right now, special agents from the FBI and personnel from other U.S. government agencies are working with their Mexican counterparts in order to locate these four Americans who were kidnapped on Friday as they traveled from Texas into Mexico.

Now, a source familiar with this investigation tells me that the reason they were there is because one of the Americans was attempting to get some type of medical procedure. And they know that because after this brutal attack, law enforcement processed the crime scene. They found receipts in the vehicle indicating that there was some type of medical procedure that was planned.

Now U.S. source tells me that they believe at this point that this cartel actually mistook this group of Americans for Haitian drug smugglers, opening a barrage of gunfire on their vehicle, eventually taking them away.

Now, I want to show you this video from the aftermath of this incident. I'll warn you, this is graphic, what you're about to see. A source familiar tells me that this was related to the incident believed to be after that attack began.

What you see in the video is actually people being loaded into the bed of this white truck at gunpoint, including a woman who is shoved into the vehicle. There are also a number of other individuals around that truck who don't appear to be moving, who are lifted up and thrown into that vehicle.

Now, CNN cannot innocently confirm that those are indeed the Americans. Again, a source says this is related to this incident. So a very frightening situation. Obviously, we know a lot of Americans, a lot of Canadians often go into Mexico for lower cost prescription drugs, for lower priced medical procedures.

At this hour, the FBI offering a $50,000 reward for any information that could lead to the secure release of these captors, as well as the identification -- excuse me, of the captives, as well as the identification of these kidnappers, guys.

SCIUTTO: Josh, you worked global kidnapping investigations with the FBI. Initial indications are here that they were confused with Haitian drug smugglers here. Are these groups, kinds of groups that would negotiate with the FBI, with investigators seeking to get their release?

CAMPBELL: That is the big question. You know, Jim, we know that so many of these cartels often engage in kidnappings. The problem here and I'll just be honest, the situation is very grim because a source tells me that this was not intended to be a kidnapping operation.

[10:05:02] This was a kill operation. They thought that they were hitting a rival group of drug smugglers. So the question is, did these a cartel members panic? And can the FBI actually make contact?

You know, as an FBI agent working this investigation, the one question you ask yourself at the outset is, are the captives prone to violence? Are they reasonable? Are they rational? Again, we already know we're way past that because these cartel members attempted to kill the people in this vehicle. So a very grim situation that is ongoing in Mexico.

HILL: We know how important every moment is here as we wait for more word and the families, of course, wait for more information. When we look at this particular state, this particular Mexican state, the U.S. State Department has put six Mexican states on a do not travel list. This is the level four, highest level, don't go to these areas. Walk us through what that means, because I was having this conversation this morning with the producer. If you're not booking a flight, maybe you don't realize because that alert is not going to pop up. If you're driving, what should you be looking at? And what does that alert really mean?

CAMPBELL: You know, this is so critical. And this isn't just the U.S. government just, you know, saying this because they don't have anything to back it up. I could tell you, having worked with the State Department intelligence analysts, the U.S. intelligence community analysts, it's all of the information that the U.S. government has that goes into these warnings to try to prepare citizens that, look, if you're going to go into a dangerous place, here's what you need to know.

Now, the U.S. government doesn't say that all of Mexico is a no-go zone, but as you look at that map that you were just showing, you can see that there are indeed six specific states where the U.S. government says, it is dangerous. You have cartel members that runs from Colima all the way up to Tamaulipas, which is where this attack took place. And so this is based on actual information. So what the U.S. government tries to do is warn travelers that, look, if you're about to embark on some type of journey, be it personal, be it professional, you need to know what the State Department is saying here.

The warning is very clear. Regardless of your reason for wanting to go into Mexico, there is real intelligence that Americans should know about the dangerous situation in many of these parts of Mexico.

SCIUTTO: We should know these warnings are not consider not traveling. They are do not travel to these places. It's the highest level, as Eric was saying. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

SCIUTTO: We now know that those Americans were in Mexico so that one of them can undergo a medical procedure, a type of trip, it's known as medical tourism has become increasingly popular. HILL: Yeah, Josh just alluded to that. Sometimes it's not even a procedure. Maybe it's lower cost drug. CNN Health Reporter Jacqueline Howard joining us now with more.

So walk us through medical tourism, right? Most of the time it comes down to cost. Health care in this country is not cheap. It is not equal, as we know.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right, Erica. Many people seek medical tourism because of cost. And we're talking about when people travel internationally for some kind of medical care. And this is on the rise. One study says that in 2007, fewer than 800,000 people traveled internationally from the U.S. to seek medical care. By 2017, more than 1 million Americans did. And of course, this comes with risks, as we see with this current case. If you're traveling somewhere that's high in crime, that's dangerous.

But there are other risks as well. There's the risk of infection, as you see on the screen here. Wherever you're going does not follow the same cleaning procedures that we do here in the U.S. You have risks of infection. You have risk of not getting the follow up care that you need. There's risk with communication challenges. So there is a lot of concern when patients do this. But if they do seek medical care outside of the U.S. there are recommendations to, number one, make sure you get a doctor's appointment four to six weeks before your travel. And, of course, do your research. Research the medical facility, research the medical provider. Do the research ahead of time before seeking medical care. Because, again, Jim and Erica, there are significant risks with this.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

HILL: Important to know all that out. Jacqueline Howard, appreciate it. Thank you.

We are also following what's happening with a Florida woman, arrest warrant issued for her. She's charged with taking part in the January 6 attack on the Capitol.

SCIUTTO: The FBI is now looking for Olivia Pollock after she failed to show up to court yesterday here in Washington, D.C. According to the warrant, court officials have been unable to locate Pollock since late February. CNN's Senior Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid joins us now. She was wearing an ankle monitor but removed it. What more have you learned about the manhunt here?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jim, this is a pretty wild story, and they've been looking for her for quite some time now, since late last month, but they kept the search under wraps until she didn't show up for her trial yesterday when they issued this warrant.

Now she is charged with participating in what is described by prosecutors as a coordinated attack against law enforcement. She is specifically accused of elbowing an officer in the chest and trying to strip away an officer's baton. And she wasn't the only warrant for whom some warrant that was issued yesterday. There was another warrant issued for her co-defendant, Joseph Hutchinson. He is accused of something slightly different, which is pulling back a fence during January, which allowed rioters to swarm into an area where police were trying to defend the Capitol. He is also accused of punching an officer, grabbing one by the sleeve before throwing him out of the way.

[10:10:20]

Now, as you noted, both of these defendants were wearing ankle monitors, GPS monitors. They were not detained ahead of their trial, but the FBI said yesterday that they believe these were either removed or tampered with. The FBI has retrieved one of the monitors, but won't say whose monitor they have. Now, both of these defendants are still expected to go to trial later this year if they can be found.

HILL: Yeah, if they can be found. And we should point out it's not only Olivia Pollock that they're searching for, her brother, Jonathan Pollock, they can't find him either?

REID: That's right. All in the family here. He is also charged with participating in that alleged coordinated attack against law enforcement. And he's been on the land since 2021. And the FBI has also offered a reward for any information that leads to his capture and conviction.

SCIUTTO: Paula Reid, thanks so much. Let's get some analysis now from Elliot Williams, who's CNN's a legal analyst, former federal prosecutor. Elliot, good to have you on this morning.

So more than 1000 defendants have been arrested in connection with January 6, many hundreds convicted of charges. You have a case here now, a brother and sister on the run after charges. Is that an isolated thing or is there a broader problem here?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, it's not a broader problem. Most people show up for trial, Jim, because there's huge hassle more than anything else, but also penalties for not showing up to trial. Number one, you now have federal marshals on your tail. And yes, it's taken some time, but they will find these people. That's typically how it happens with the federal marshals. They can then be charged with another crime for failing to show up for their trial, and then, once they're convicted of that, get a bump in their sentence for not showing up to trial.

So it's just bringing the world of her. Look, it's a human impulse to want to avoid going to prison. They're not pleasant places, but avoiding and running actually makes things much, much, much worse.

HILL: The fact that her brother, Elliot, was on the run since 2021. If you're the prosecutor here, do you think that would have changed what you were asking for in terms of monitoring? Would that have raised any concerns in your mind about house arrest and ankle monitoring?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure there are folks that are kicking themselves right now for even agreeing to that. Now look, an ankle monitor and ankle bracelet is considered a form of detention. You're not considered, "released" if you're wearing an ankle bracelet, right? Now, in practical terms, they get to be home. They get to be out and about in the public.

And the standard for whether somebody is allowed out is whether they're, number one, a risk to the community, or number two, a flight risk. Well, this is played out. They were clearly flight risk as they flew. They ran away. So I do think there's some head scratching in a prosecutor's office or maybe even in the judge's chambers of why they even allowed this in the first.

SCIUTTO: Elliot, we now know the former Vice President Mike Pence has asked a judge to block a federal grand jury subpoena under the claim that he's protected by the constitution's speech and debate clause. He did write and publish a book, which has sold many copies here. How is that consistent, that argument? And might that complicate his effort to block the subpoena?

WILLIAMS: Yes and no, Jim. Look, as the Vice President of the United States, people may not know this, but the Vice President serves two roles. It's the number two to the President. You step in if the President can't serve. But also, the Vice President has a legislative role as the President of the Senate, right? And that carries with it some protections.

Now, if there were specific things, actions that Mike Pence took in his role as president of the Senate, preparing to certify ballots, for instance. Yes, those might be protected. But one, anything in his book is not going to be protected.

Two, any conversations he had with the Trump campaign ought not be protected. Three, talking about things that about the job but don't touch his role in the Senate aren't going to be protected. So this idea of moving to strike the whole subpoena down merely by being Vice President, that's ludicrous. And he's going, I would think would lose and it would get carved up a little bit so that only some statements will be protected.

HILL: May also take a little time to get us to that final decision. So here we go. We'll start that -- we'll start yet another clock here. Elliot Williams, always appreciate it, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, Chairman of the Federal Reserve testifying right now on Capitol Hill before the Senate Banking Committee. Certainly asked about inflation, can he explain why it's still high after a year now of aggressive rate hikes? We'll find out.

HILL: Plus, a controversial bill in Mississippi would create an unelected state appointed court system in the city of Jackson. It is drawing plenty of criticism this morning, the very real concerns about what this could mean for the predominantly black city.

[10:15:07]

SCIUTTO: And for the first time ever, players from the National Women's Soccer League will be featured in the popular EA Sports FIFA video game. That's just a head.

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SCIUTTO: We do have breaking news now on the four Americans kidnapped in Mexico. Officials in Mexico say they have now been found, CNN's Josh Campbell with us now. Josh, tell us the details?

CAMPBELL: Yeah. So U.S. official familiar with this ongoing investigation tells me essentially what the Mexican governor said, that there were two of these Americans found sadly deceased, two of them found alive.

[10:20:04]

Now, some additional information from this source that wasn't released by Mexican officials. It appears as though one of those who were found alive, that individual is severely injured, and so that person is receiving medical treatment. Of course, we know after seeing that dramatic video in the aftermath of this incident, that graphic video of these people being loaded onto the back of a pickup truck at gunpoint, that it looked as though there were at least two of them that were not moving at the time.

And so I've been talking with sources throughout who have said that there was this question about what the status, the condition of those people were. We're now hearing from a source that two of them found deceased, two of them found alive.

Again, one of them is severely wounded. Now, as far as where they were found, this U.S. official familiar with this ongoing investigation tells me that it was at some type of medical clinic in Matamoros.

Of course, we know that these Americans have traveled on Friday from South Carolina through Texas into the border town there into Mexico. And so we were told that they were found, all four of them, at some type of medical clinic. Again, we're waiting to see what happens next.

We know the FBI, U.S. law enforcement, has been engaged with their Mexican authorities. The way this would typically work, I can tell you from previous kidnappings is that depending on who finds the victims first, whether it's local authorities, whether it's some type of joint task force with the U.S. federal government, FBI agents would be brought in to try to obviously interview the victims, to find out what exactly happened, to try to secure their eventual transport back into the United States, back home, if they are well enough to do so.

But again, we're hearing that one of those individuals is severely wounded and is receiving medical treatment. So this, you know, we always we're wondering how this would end. A source told me at the very beginning that it appeared very grim, at least for some of the victims. And sadly, we are hearing two deceased, two alive, one appears to be fighting for that person's life. Guys.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. So sad.

HILL: Josh -- Josh, stay with us. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is also joining us. She's on the phone from South Carolina. Dianne, we were just talking to you in the last hour. You're there in the town where three of these friends really grew up together. Talk to us a little bit more about what we know about these friends really and how this trip unfolded?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you know, Erica, Jim, this is not the news that anybody here in South Carolina wanted to hear from this. The families said that they had faith. They were holding out hopes that this was going to somehow indifferently than, Josh said, that many in law enforcement expected.

This was a tight knit group of friends. Three of those four grew up here together in small lake city of South Carolina. We're told by their family they traveled down to Mexico together because one of those friends was set to undergo a medical procedure.

Now, she did not show up to her doctor appointment on Friday according to her mother. She says that then the FBI contacted her on Sunday to let her know that her daughter had been kidnapped and that she was in danger.

The mother said that the FBI simply said if she calls home, you need to call us. Now, her aunt also says that she saw a video on Sunday where she recognized her niece there by her hair and the clothing that she was wearing because look, this group of friends had been Facebook live and on their way down.

This was a group of friends who were trading off driving as they were making this journey from South Carolina to Mexico. According to one of the friend's mothers, she said that her daughter had had a medical procedure in Mexico before. It wasn't the first time. About two or three years ago she went down there as well. The family of another one of those individuals said that they had grown up together with these friends. They described the friend group as being like glue and that he came from a very close-knit family. He and his sister were inseparable. She said that he was always right there at her knee, always right there with her, no matter what, his family saying, that they were keeping all that they could with the faith that they had, that everything would turn out OK in the end.

The woman who was supposed to receive the medical procedure when they went down to Mexico is a mother of six. And her family, obviously all of these families very concerned. I just cannot imagine being in their position right now.

This was a group of friends going down there to support their friends and be together and to have this ending here for all of them. It's just so difficult, I imagine, for these family.

SCIUTTO: Well, it is sad news, no question. If you're just joining us now. We've learned that of those four missing Americans, two have now been found dead, two alive. And according to our Josh Campbell, one of those alive remains in critical condition.

We are joined now by Andy McCabe, former Deputy Director of the FBI. And Andy, now, I imagine that you've located the Americans. Next step would be finding the group responsible.

[10:25:03]

What ability would Mexican authorities have? And also in cooperation with the FBI, U.S. authorities in tracking these people down?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure. So, Jim, this -- you know, this becomes a what will likely turn into a protracted, essentially major organized crime case. The Mexican authorities, together with their American counterparts will continue to work all available sources. You're really looking for informant information. As word of this crime, these murders, spreads within the criminal community, more and more people will become aware of who is involved.

You'll pick up on all of those threads. You'll vet them in a way to try to identify the specific folks you're looking for. And then you're really relying very heavily on your Mexican counterparts in law enforcement and intelligence and also in the military. The military plays a significant role in law enforcement activities in Mexico to find those folks responsible.

HILL: And so give us a sense, until this last hour that -- and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember you saying that in Mexico City. So the FBI field office there in Mexico City, that is the largest one outside of the United States. There is a massive presence in Mexico. Just how effective has that relationship typically been over the years between the FBI and local authorities, be the -- you know, Mexican federal authorities, or even at the state level here when you're dealing with a situation like this?

MCCABE: So of course, the FBI is going to probably enjoy their strongest relationships with the national authorities who are located, or at least headquartered in Mexico City. But let's be clear, they do a lot of work across the criminal and intelligence spheres in Mexico. So the Bureau has developed deep and productive contacts in those agencies.

Now, that's not to say it's always perfect. Mexico is a place that we all know experiences a high degree of government corruption in all places at all levels, and that can often throw a kind of wrench in the works and that relationship between the U.S. counterparts and their Mexican colleagues.

But you have to know that at this moment, crimes against Americans are the absolute top priority for FBI agents and all folks in the embassy to work. I'm sure this is the number one priority that they're working on right now.

SCIUTTO: Josh Campbell with us now, used to be a special agent for the FBI. And when you look at that map, we put up again of those several states that are currently under State Department do not travel warnings. That is, do not go, they're not safe to go. That covers a fairly large part of the country there. For folks watching right now, how do they factor in information like this? The events with these four Americans, sadly, two now killed. But also those travel warnings, it strikes me you have to think very carefully about travel decisions there?

CAMPBELL: No, you do indeed. And it's important for anyone traveling into Mexico or anywhere the U.S. government has listed as a no-go zone based on U.S. intelligence community -- intelligence holdings, is it's not just yourself being potentially targeted. People think, well, I can handle myself if I go into Mexico. I hit some kind of checkpoint or there's some kind of shakedown by law enforcement, I'll talk my way out of it. I'll pay my way out of it.

If you look at that map that's on your screen right now, these so called do not travel areas also include this caveat that, look, Americans can be caught up in rivalry gangs who are trying to target each other.

And the reason why that's important is that that appears exactly what happened in this case with these four Americans. A U.S. official familiar with this investigation tells me that their thought now is that this cartel, the Gulf Cartel, specifically thought that they were targeting a group of Haitian drug smugglers who were on their turf.

Of course, in reality, it was these innocent Americans who were simply down there trying to obtain some type of medical procedure. So it's important to listen to these warnings. And as far as what happens next, I talking with U.S. official, you know, obviously the goal is to try to ensure the safety of the Americans who were recovered, who are still alive. One of them, as I mentioned, is severely wounded. But then the next step after you actually make that recovery, you have the victims in your care is to then look, and as, Andy was mentioning, this investigation that will have to be launched.

And, you know, it's not just worth kidnapping investigations around the world where it was specifically targeted, where you had a high degree of plotting and planning that went in to trying to kidnap an American citizen or others, for that matter.

The FBI doesn't just go looking for Americans. They assist foreign partners in locating kidnapped victims as well. But it's not just those that are plotted out. There are instances of opportunity where you have a group, you know, these so far, so-called KFR, kidnapped for ransom gangs, who will see someone who might fit the bill, thinking that if I kidnap this person, I can then get a significant amount of money. There is a -- people might be surprised, there's actually a business model tied around these types of very sinister operations. And so that's what the FBI will have to be looking into.

Regardless of whether this was planned and targeted, the FBI will be seeking to hold these people accountable, working with their Mexican partners, guys.

[10:30:04]

HILL: It's part of that, how they can be held accountable will be determining to how and when all of this unfolded.