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2 Americans Abducted In Mexico Found Dead, 2 Alive And Back In U.S.; Zelenskyy: Russians Would Gain "Open Road" If They Captured Bakhmut; White House: U.S. "Does Not Seek Conflict" With China, Policy Unchanged. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 07, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

New developments in the investigation into the four Americans who were abducted in Mexico. Officials there now say that one person has been detained after two victims were found dead earlier today. The two others are alive and back in the U.S.

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GOVERNOR AMERICO VILLAREAL, TAMAULIPAS, MEXICO (Through Interpreter): Two of them were dead and two, Latavia M has no injury and Eric has been shot and was injured in his leg. Both has been given medical treatment at the clinic.

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BLACKWELL: All four were found at what appears to be a medical clinic in the border town of Matamoros. Mexican officials you heard there say that one survivor suffered a bullet wound to the leg. The other was not injured.

The group went missing after traveling to Mexico from South Carolina so that one of them, a mother of six, could undergo a medical procedure. That's according to family members. A friend tells CNN the victims got lost and reached out to the doctor's office for just directions, but struggled with poor cell phone service.

GOLODRYGA: Authorities say that's when a group of unidentified gunmen shot at the victim's vehicle and took them from the scene. Investigators believe the Americans were targeted by a Mexican cartel that likely mistook them for Haitian drug smugglers according to a U.S. official. The U.S. officials are also now vowing justice.

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NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We're providing all appropriate assistance to them and their families. We extend our deepest condolences to the family and loved ones of the deceased. We thank our Mexican and U.S. law enforcement partners for their efforts to find these innocent victims and the task forward is to ensure that justice is done.

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GOLODRYGA: CNN's Kylie Atwood is monitoring the situation from the State Department. But let's start with CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell.

So Josh, what more are we learning about how this tragedy unfolded and it looks like that the surviving member of this group is the mother of six who went down there for the procedure, is that correct?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No, that's right, Bianna. Since this incident began, I've been talking to sources familiar with this ongoing search for these captives. And they said that their view was although the FBI was trying to find them, they knew the situation was very grim and that is because of that dramatic video that we were showing earlier, where you actually see what appears to be the aftermath of this kidnapping attempt where people were being loaded onto the back of this truck. There it is that graphic video, I'll warn our viewers.

You see a woman being shoved into the back of the truck and then there are - what appear to be the lifeless bodies of others being loaded onto the vehicle as well. And it's because those people weren't moving in part why the people working on this investigation were so concerned about the outcome.

And we do now learn that we have learned from sources the sad news that two of those Americans were indeed killed. And now I'm about to read you their names. We have not reported this yet. This is obviously a very sensitive topic. I have confirmed with the source that the families of these four Americans have been notified by authorities about the outcome of their loved ones.

The two that were killed were Shaeed Woodard and Zindell Brown. Now, the other two individuals, Latavia Washington McGee, that's the - a mother of six that you mentioned and Eric Williams are the two American citizens who did survive.

Now, I'm told by a source familiar that Mr. Williams suffered a severe injury. Just a short time ago, for the surviving members of this group, the FBI was able to make contact with them. They made their way into FBI care across the U.S.-Mexico border back into the United States where they are now receiving treatment at a hospital in Texas as well as observation.

Now sadly, as far as the two victims who were found just deceased at this - what a source described as some type of clinic near Matamoros.

[15:05:04]

A source says that they will be examined by the medical examiner in Mexico trying to determine what the cause of death was. And then U.S. officials expect that those remains will be promptly repatriated back to the United States where they can then be taken to their loved ones. Just a very, very sad occurrence here, obviously for the two that were killed and their families.

This incident which started as a group of Americans going to Mexico to try to seek medical treatment ending in tragedy, as it appears they were targeted by this cartel and mistook them for drug smugglers, guys.

BLACKWELL: Yes, tragic indeed. And, Josh, thank you for that reporting.

Kylie, to you. A lot of what we're learning is from sources like the ones that Josh is citing there. Also from the Mexican government, what are we hearing from U.S. officials?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, listen, we just heard from State Department Spokesperson, Ned Price, that the two Americans who survived this violent attack incident have returned to United States and the bodies of the other two Americans who were murdered had been recovered. The State Department isn't saying exactly who in the U.S. government actually has those bodies.

But it's our understanding that they're still in Mexico, but they've been recovered by U.S. officials. When it comes to the U.S. working with Mexican authorities on this, I asked the State Department just how satisfied they are in terms of those joint efforts and they expressed a deep appreciation to Mexican authorities for working with them to try and get to the bottom of this, to recover these bodies and to get those other two Americans back home.

And there are also questions now about justice and accountability. We've heard from the White House earlier today, we heard from the State Department just now pressing that the United States wants to see justice and accountability.

What they aren't doing, though, is being very explicit about what that could look like. They're pointing to U.S. law enforcement officials to look at the contours of what justice could actually look like. And one reporter at the State Department briefing today asked if there's a possibility of actually deeming these gangs to be terrorist organizations.

And State Department Spokesperson, Ned Price, said that those gangs right now are designated as appropriate and the United States will use tools available to them down the road if it comes to that, but not being very explicit as to if they're ruling in or out that possibility and that's a question that has come up. And we'll continue to watch for more information from the State Department on this. Of course, we have Josh reporting that the families of these Americans have been notified of the circumstances and what they have been through and I'm sure that we'll learn more from their families in the coming days and hours.

BLACKWELL: All right. Kylie Atwood, Josh Campbell, thank you both. GOLODRYGA: Well, now to the new bystander video showing the terrifying moments before a flight attendant was attacked on a Boston bound United flight yesterday. A passenger says this man was relatively quiet for five - after the five hour flight before he suddenly began having violent outbursts and tried to open an emergency door.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So where's the Homeland Security with the gun because I'm waiting for them to point the gun at me so I can show everybody that I will die when I take every bullet in that clip to wherever in my body they're shooting and then I will kill every man on this plane. I'm taking over this plane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, (inaudible) right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-oh. Oh, now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm telling you right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, Torres then charged the front of the plane, stabbed the flight attendant in the neck with a spoon, a broken spoon. A passenger who captured the video, Lisa Olsen, spoke to CNN this morning.

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LISA OLSEN, RECORDED VIDEO OF A MAN ATTACKING FLIGHT ATTENDANT: I think that I assumed that when he started yelling because he was quiet for the first five hours that I thought maybe it was drugs or something happened where it just - he - it just set him off. I didn't realize that he was kind of planning this from the beginning. He was in the bathroom from - for a long time before that with his backpack.

Many men from the plane, jumped up, followed him, tackled him to the ground. And there were probably about four to six of them that sat on top of him to restrain him. The flight crew immediately had zip ties to zip tie his feet and his arms.

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BLACKWELL: Joining us now is Sara Nelson. She is the president of the Association of Flight Attendants.

Sara, good to have you back.

Is there anything you could tell us about this flight attendant who was stabbed? Have you spoken with her or any of the flight attendants on that flight?

SARA NELSON, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Well, as you're going through the debriefing and the investigation, of course, we keep that confidential so that we can learn as much as possible about that. I will tell you that my heart goes out to this crew. This is a fairly new flight attendant and I can't imagine the horror on that plane.

So thinking about them very much and thinking about what we need to do to make sure that they have better tools, that we have better tools, more staffing.

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The ability to have more resources on board, more funding for our Air Marshal program and a banned passenger list that we have been calling on lawmakers to put in place for well over a year now.

GOLODRYGA: So this passenger will likely be banned on future flights. But what can be instituted to make sure that certain passengers won't have outbursts like this that aren't on these lists right now?

NELSON: Well, this particular passenger is being subjected to the FBI responding very, very swiftly. And I do want to commend the FBI because they came in and conducted their investigation very quickly, got that over to justice so that this man could be charged and put into the justice process.

But right now, there is no national banned passenger list. This is airline by airlines. So certainly United Airlines will - I expect - will be banning him from flying on United. But that information is not shared. There's not a program to be able to share that across the industry.

So if he is not in custody, he could potentially get on another plane. That is part of the problem that I'm calling out here. I also want to call attention to the fact that our planes are fuller than they have ever been, seats are closer together, which means that there's more passengers on those planes than ever before. And due to cost cuts, the flight attendant staffing has been cut down to minimum, so there's fewer of us, more passengers.

Flight attendants are expert at handling issues and de-escalating and trained in responding to these situations. But when there are fewer of us, it's harder to get to them faster. It's harder for us to help and it's harder for us to direct passengers to help when there's an imminent threat of bodily harm.

BLACKWELL: You talked about needing more resources on board. You also talked about the Air Marshals. One thing that Lisa Olsen said was that they ran out of zip ties ...

GOLODRYGA: Mm-hm.

BLACKWELL: ... and that people started to hand up their belts, like what other resources if you could be more specific do you think you'd need on board in case something like this happens again?

NELSON: Well, look, zip ties are tough cuffs. There should - we should never be running out of those. We should have plenty to be able to use. There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not flight attendants should have tasers. I think we need to look at that discussion again and flight attendants need to be given the training that we were supposed to have right after 911, which is crew member self-defense training.

That is a training that is conducted by the Air Marshals. We have been able to get funding for that, but it's on a voluntary basis. So flight attendants have to go on their day off, they have to spend their own money to get where the training is occurring and the hosting costs for that. They're not charged for the training. But this is something that should be incorporated into our training right now because we should have all the tools necessary to be able to respond to this.

We have not only been aviation's first responders responding to emergencies and the health of passengers on board, but since 911 we've also been aviation's last line of defense. And with the rise of violent events on our planes, it is time to renew this discussion about making sure that this is a mandatory part of our training, that there is a passenger banned list across the industry that federal government controls that includes a due process, so we're there - we're not violating people's civil liberties and we have a way to get off if you are improving your behavior and getting better.

But this can be managed by the federal government and shared with the rest of the - with the industry so that we're not allowing these people back onto our planes. Those are severe consequences that we need to have to serve as deterrence. And then when these events happen on board, we have to have enough resources to be able to respond.

GOLODRYGA: Listen, it was alarming enough when we got these headlines yesterday, but seeing this video today of what passengers had witnessed and what this passenger himself had done and trying to attack the flight attendant that just takes it to a whole other level.

Sara Nelson, I'm glad that everyone's okay. Please keep us posted on the flight crew as well. We appreciate your time.

NELSON: Thank you. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Ukraine's military says Russia has launched dozens of attacks near Bakhmut, but insists they are holding the line. Next, we're live in eastern Ukraine with the latest on the fight.

GOLODRYGA: And China's ties to Russia, just one issue driving tensions with Washington to dangerous levels. How the White House is now responding to a stern warning from to top Chinese officials. That's a head.

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BLACKWELL: Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy, told CNN in an exclusive interview today that his troops will not retreat from the battered eastern city of Bakhmut. He said that if Russia were to gain a victory there, it could give an open road to attack and capture more cities in Ukraine's eastern region.

GOLODRYGA: Russia's defense minister echoed that today saying a victory in Bakhmut would allow Russian troops to advance deeper into Ukraine.

CNN's Alex Marquardt is in eastern Ukraine and joins us now.

So Alex, it's interesting, because you have two different views from top military officials in the United States and in Ukraine in terms of the significance of continuing to fight for Bakhmut.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna and Victor. I think it's really interesting what President Zelenskyy had to say today to Wolf Blitzer that this is a tactical battle for Ukraine as well, that they need to hold on to this for strategic reasons, because we've heard a number of officials, Ukrainian and American and otherwise kind of dismissing Bakhmut in terms of its strategic value, saying that if Russia were to take it over, it would simply be a symbolic win for them.

What President Zelenskyy said in terms of its value and the potential for Russia to move west from there, if they were to capture Bakhmut, that's exactly what we've been hearing from Ukrainian troops on the front line. So it certainly does President Zelenskyy no harm with his own forces to hear him echo what they're saying that you - that if Russia were to capture Bakhmut, that they could then use that as a launching off point to go further down the road.

I do, however, think that there are going to be a lot of military officials and analysts who would dispute the fact that Russia could go much farther west from there in any near future that Ukraine is expected to dig in quite significantly to the west of Bakhmut.

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We do know that Ukrainian forces have managed to degrade those Russian forces, those Wagner forces quite significantly. NATO has estimated that the Russian losses, compared to Ukraine's are five to one. We've seen that Wagner has been forced to put its more elite troops into the battle, after all of those conscripts were mowed down and what so many people have called a meat grinder. We've seen Russian airborne troops having to come and backfill for those Wagner troops.

So even if Russia were to take Bakhmut, they would arrive there and take the city in a very diminished position. However, Bianna and Victor, they do continue to press forward. They are making some gains particularly to the north of the city. They're very much trying to encircle the city and cut off the major supply routes that go into Bakhmut that help the Ukrainian side resupply.

We did hear from the head of Wagner today, Yevgeny Prigozhin, complaining that he's not getting the ammunition that he needs from Russia's military, yet again showing the daylight between Russia's military and his private military company. He also talked about Ukrainian units that are showing up to try to push him back and that is what we're hearing from the Ukrainian side as well that they plan to dig - keep digging and keep defending, dig in, push back and send reinforcements for those troops that are battling so hard for the city of Bakhmut, Bianna, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Yes. NATO says that for every Ukrainian fighter that's lost, there are five on the Russian side that are lost in this fight for Bakhmut, so maybe a drain of resources there.

Alex Marquardt, thank you so much.

Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins us now. A former commanding general of U.S. Army in Europe and the 7th Army.

General, good to see you.

Where do you stand on the value of Bakhmut? Because we heard from Secretary Austin that this would not - losing it would not represent some operational or strategic significant loss. But you heard what President Zelenskyy said today that if this were lost to the Russians, this would be an open road. Where do you stand?

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of all, I'd say I'd agree with Secretary Austin, a guy who used to be my boss and knows a lot about military operations. It would not be a strategic victory for Russia. They would gain ground. It wouldn't be a strategic victory for Ukraine either.

But Victor, we've been looking for the last several months at Bakhmut through a soda straw as one small town in a very large area. If the Russians do gain control of that city, and I don't believe they will, I'll caveat that a little bit, they will have the opportunity to conduct operations further to the northwest and south as you've just stated, but the problem is they can't hold on to it.

And I would also agree with Gen. Zelenskyy, I guess I'm agreeing with both of the people who are posing conflicting view that this has become a psychological battlefield. For the Ukrainians, they have held this city, this relatively small city of about 70,000. There's only about 4,500 people in it now for almost seven months, Victor, and they have drained the Russian forces that have continued to attack wave upon wave.

So as we've said so many times before, this has been a meat grinder for Russia. Ukraine has also taken a serious amount of casualties. But it is Ukraine's intent to say you are not taking any more of our ground, it must stop here. So it becomes a psychological victory for Ukraine having to hold on to this so long, much like earlier in the war, the Battle of Mariupol.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Yet the longer they continue fighting for Bakhmut, the question arises as to whether it will impact their plan's spring offensive, which is expected to be in the south. They obviously have an ammunition issue at this point and they're losing a lot of troops as well. It's not just the Russians. So how are you looking at what a spring offensive may look like the longer that Ukraine remains in Bakhmut? HERTLING: It's a great question, Bianna, and I would answer that from the standpoint of a military commander on the ground, how I would judge this situation. I don't know how much - I mean, I'm not privy to classified information. I don't know how much Ukraine is pouring into this fight, but they have certainly drained the Russian forces much more than they have been drained. And sometimes, unfortunately, that's a consideration on the battlefield in terms of just flat out body counts.

But what I'd suggest is this is also trading that time for more time in space. There have been several weeks where the Ukrainian forces are generating additional firepower. They are taking more equipment from the West. I would suggest they're conducting intelligence preparation of the battlefield, finding out where they're going to target next, particularly in the south in Zaporizhzhia.

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So this fight continues to drain the Russian forces while drawing their attention away from the south and I think we're going to see probably the counter attacks and the potential spring offensive by the Ukrainians in the southern region.

So this Bakhmut battlefield in the Donbas is holding the Russia's attention for quite a long period of time.

GOLODRYGA: And as President Zelenskyy today told Wolf Blitzer in his view it is a tactical significance. We'll see how this all plays out in the days and weeks to come.

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you as always.

HERTLING: Thanks, Bianna and Victor.

GOLODRYGA: And do be sure to tune in tomorrow where President Zelenskyy will be joining Wolf Blitzer for that exclusive interview. Hear more of why he says Ukraine must and will prevail. CNN PRIMETIME begins tomorrow night at 9 pm Eastern.

BLACKWELL: The Biden administration reiterated today that it does not seek conflict with China and insisted U.S. policy toward Beijing has not changed. White House pushed that message today repeatedly and made provocative comments from Beijing.

First, President Xi Jinping accused the U.S. and its allies of suppressing China's economic development.

GOLODRYGA: Then, China's new foreign minister warned a potential conflict and even confrontation if the U.S. doesn't change course.

CNN Chief White House Correspondent, Phil Mattingly joins us now.

Phil, the White House is trying to defuse this ramped up rhetoric coming out of Beijing specifically what we heard from President Xi Jinping. It's rare for him to call out the United States by name. PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna. It was the direct nature of both Xi Jinping's comments and the Foreign Minister's comments that I think are what struck most people over the course of the last 48 hours. But as you noted, U.S. officials making very clear that they're not trying to amp up their own rhetoric, they're not trying to engage any back and forth. In fact, they want to maintain what they view has been the status quo they've been pushing for, for the better part of the last two plus years.

I asked White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre if what - U.S. officials had any grasp of the intent behind the comments over the course of the last couple of days, this is what she said.

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KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President's approach to China has not changed. And again, we've been very clear we do not seek conflict and we do not want conflict. What we're seeking is competition and we've been very clear about that these past two years. The President will always defend American interests, as you all know, but he has been clear we want - we need to keep open lines of communication.

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MATTINGLY: And guys, there have been no shortage of issues that have exacerbated tensions over the course of the last several weeks from the spy balloon, the President Biden ordered shut down, obviously U.S. warnings to China about delivering lethal aid to Russia, this has been kind of a consistent evolution over the course of the last two plus years.

But one thing you hear repeatedly is what Karine Jean-Pierre said at the end there, they want communication here at the White House, here - the - in the Biden administration. They want to ensure that despite the back and forth, despite their efforts to have very clear competition, despite the reality that these are very clearly for the two superpowers at this moment in time, that if nothing else, they want to keep lines of communication open.

For the most part, they feel like that has been reestablished in the wake of Xi and Biden's sit down in Indonesia last year. That has been threatened to some degree over the course of the last several weeks. They want to try and get that back on track. But obviously what we've seen in the last 48 hours, certainly doesn't lead one to believe that that's actually happening right now, guys.

BLACKWELL: All right. Phil Mattingly for us at the White House. Thank you, Phil.

GOLODRYGA: Republican Senator, Thom Tillis has some choice words for Tucker Carlson after the FOX host yet again downplayed the fatal January 6th insurrection. We'll have more on that just ahead.

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