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New Documents Show Fox Hosts Privately Slammed Election Conspiracies; Private Companies Added 242,000 Jobs in February; Russia's Pursuit of Bakhmut; Memphis Releases more Video of Nichols Beating. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired March 08, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Claims in private.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, very clearly doubting them. The revelations just the latest in Dominion Voting Systems' $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox.

CNN's Paula Reid has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New internal communications from some of Fox News' most prominent figures show concerns and misgivings some had about then President Donald Trump's claims of election fraud and the company's handling of the 2020 election results.

According to court documents, host Tucker Carlson texted a producer on January 4, 2021. We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. The conversation continues, referring to Trump, Carlson says, I hate him passionately. I can't handle much more of this.

The private communications from Carlson are a sharp contrast to his public support for the former president, as seen on his program that night.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: The president, as you may have heard, believes the election was stolen from him. Georgia's secretary of state, whose job it is to oversee elections, disagrees. You can listen to the call yourself. It's online. And you can make up your own mind.

REID: The text messages are part of a trove of documents and communications released Tuesday from Dominion Voting System's $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the right wing network.

Fox responding to the latest document release, in part saying, Dominion has been caught red handed using more distortions and misinformation in their PR campaign to smear Fox News and trample on free speech and freedom of the press.

Dominion saying in a statement, the emails, texts and deposition testimony speak for themselves. The communications reveal Fox Corporation Chairman Rupert Murdoch, who

was furious Fox News called the 2020 election for Biden, and wrote to an email to the former "New York Post" editor and chief, CNN declares and Fox coming in minutes. I hate our decision desk people and pollsters. Some of the same people, I think.

More than a month after the 2020 election, Fox News' D.C. managing editor wrote in a private message to a colleague he feared that the network's coverage of Trump's election fraud claims were becoming an existential crisis for the company.

Murdoch conceded in an email to Fox New CEO Suzanne Scott in January 2021 that some of Fox's top talent went too far in their coverage.

During his deposition, Murdoch asked, do you believe that Dominion was engaged in a massive and coordinated effort to steal the 2020 presidential election? Murdoch replied, no.

LEE LEVINE, FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER: Dominion has made an effort to show that Rupert Murdoch was hands on, that is that he was aware of what people were saying on his air, that he had the ability to stop these guests from appearing and repeating these things.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Both sides have asked a judge to resolve this case in their favor. Now, there's also a small chance this could settle, but if none of those things happen, this case is scheduled to go to trial next month in Delaware. And it's expected that it will last about five or six weeks.

And, Jim, Erica, this would be a blockbuster case.

SCIUTTO: Yes, lots of money involved as well.

Paula Reid, thanks so much.

CNN's senior political analyst, John Avlon, joins us now to discuss.

And, John, this contrast between what Fox hosts said on the air about election fraud lies and what they said privately, there are numerous examples. Here's another one. In a conversation November 18th, a couple weeks after the election, Tucker Carlson claimed he caught Powell, Sidney Powell, who had propagated some of these theories, lying, to which Ingraham, Laura Ingraham, responded calling Powell, quote, a complete nut. That same night, though, on her show, Ingraham criticized those who were dismissing Trump's lies as conspiracy theories. She said the following. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Rush Limbaugh had a great show today where he went through all of these affidavits from people who have been working in ballot counting for 20 years who cited really disturbing things that they had seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So this has been exposed multiple times, saying one thing on the air, saying something very different privately. What are the consequences of this and are Fox viewers hearing that -- those revelations as well?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, they're not. And that's consistent with what Fox has been doing according to these documents over this entire period. The lies, the hypocrisy, the lying to your audience and saying one thing in private, which is completely antithetical to anything resembling journalistic ethics. And, of course, the larger stakes aren't just the, you know, the misinformation being fed to Fox viewers, it's the degrading of our democracy, our ability to reason together. And that's why this trial matters so much. It's not a corporate scandal. This is something that affects the whole country. And what's been revealed is that Fox is not primarily a news organization, it is a partisan political operation, and it is far closer to "The National Enquirer" than "The National Review."

[09:35:10]

HILL: You know, to that point, it's interesting, as we're seeing -- you know, there's a lot of speculation about this, but as you're actually seeing in what's been released, how the sausage is effectively made, what those programming decisions are, that they are not based in fact.

There's also a moment in the filing where we learn Fox chair Rupert Murdoch questioned Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, two of his hosts, saying, maybe Sean and Laura went too far, and yet it continues.

To your point, John, you know, we keep showing this b role, this video of the out - of the exterior of Fox News Channel here in New York City, and they have a billboard up that says America is watching. America may be watching -- parts of America may be watching Fox. They're not getting this story. Their media correspondent said over the weekend that he can't even -- he's been told he can't address this.

Does it ever break through? Even if this goes to court, does anything change?

AVLON: Look, we have to hope that the truth matters, that facts matter, that a loyal viewer who thinks they're getting news realize that in the court, when you follow the actual legal arguments that they have been lied to systematically for a long time, a former confirmation bias fed by fear and greed and ultimately what's been revealed is that these Fox hosts were afraid of their audience, they were afraid of losing ratings. And so they were willing to back a lie that they knew that was a lie. The reckless disregard for truth is the technical term that this comes very apparently close to. And we'll see what the actual financial repercussions are. But this is -- I mean, the audience has been treated with contempt by being gaslighted continuously and continually. And one would hope that they'd realize that they'd been fed a steady diet of lies and would actually choose to get their news from people with a commitment to telling the truth above all.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we should note that we have another election cycle coming in 2024 and that same gaslighting is happening with the January 6th -

AVLON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: The events of January 6th. That's something we'll dig into more next time.

AVLON: We will.

HILL: John Avlon, appreciate it. Thank you.

AVLON: Thanks, guys.

HILL: Still to come here, some encouraging data on U.S. jobs just coming into us here. So, how does that square with what you're hearing from Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell about the economy? We're going to take a look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:47]

SCIUTTO: This just into CNN. And, boy, it's more signs of a strong U.S. economy. Private companies added some 242,000 jobs in February, much higher than expected. More than double those the month before, in January. The numbers coming from payroll processing company ADP. It seems like we get news like this every other day.

HILL: That data, of course, coming in as we're also waiting to hear from Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, who's back on The Hill for a second day today, testifying before the House Financial Services Committee. Made a few waves with some of his responses to a Senate panel yesterday.

CNN's Christine Romans has been watching all of this for us.

So, first, Christine, as we look at these new numbers, what do they tell us?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Sure. Well, I can see a lot of hiring in leisure and hospitality, and that has been across the board we've seen that. Look, I mean, people are coming out of the Covid crouch and they're spending money on experiences, they're going out and restaurants and bars and hotels are hiring, hiring, hiring because of the strong U.S. consumer.

This is from ADP. So this is sort of a little bit of a foreshadowing for Friday when we get the big jobs report. Sometimes they're not always in lockstep, but we have seen strong hiring, strong job creation. And when you talk to CEOs, one of their biggest concerns is not having enough workers. It's hiring, retaining top talent is still a big problem from grocery stores, to big box stores, to offices. Even though you've seen all of those headlines of job losses in tech and a little bit in finance, overall, guys, we still have a very strong job market and we'll get the jobs report from the government on Friday.

SCIUTTO: Listening to his testimony yesterday, there were some tense moments, particularly when the issue of jobs themselves came up.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): If you could speak directly to the 2 million hard working people who have decent jobs today, who you're planning to get fired over the next year, what would you say to them?

JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: I would explain to people more broadly that inflation is extremely high and it's hurting the working people of this country badly, all of them, not just 2 million of them, but all of them are suffering under high inflation and we are taking the only measures we have to bring inflation down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I mean he's basically saying the biggest problem for workers is inflation.

ROMANS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Senator Warren is saying, hey, but as you raise rates, are you going to kill the job market, in effect. A lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Does anybody have confidence the Fed is going to get that balance right?

ROMANS: And that 2 million that she's talking about, I mean, Jerome Powell doesn't want 2 million people to be thrown out of work. And he has said that. But they are penciling in a little bit higher unemployment rate as those higher interest rates work their magic in the U.S. economy and start to cool things off.

Look, the job market is so strong right now that it is feeding into the inflation picture. And inflation at 6.4 percent, Jerome Powell and any economist will tell you is dangerous to the stability of the economy overall. They've got to get that under control. That is job number one.

Now, the question is, can you have a tradeoff where you have maybe a slightly higher unemployment rate -- remember, it's at 3.4 percent. It's the lowest in 53, 54 years. It is very low right now. You have two job openings for every available worker. So, we're coming from just a fantastic position in the job market. Do you have a situation where the unemployment rate can rise a little bit and you can start to cool off inflation, but you don't have mass dislocation in the economy and the job market?

[09:45:06]

That would be - that would be the sweet spot. And that's what -- I mean, that's what the Fed is going to try to engineer if they can.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, they didn't get the sweet spot going in.

ROMANS: They did not.

SCIUTTO: So whether they get it on the way out, I mean, that's a big question.

ROMANS: They did not.

SCIUTTO: Christine Romans, thanks so much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

SCIUTTO: Overseas now. Ukraine claims that Russia is taking heavy losses this morning as that fierce battle around Bakhmut intensifies. Military leaders say they repelled more than 100 Russian attacks just Tuesday along the front line, this in the eastern part of the country.

HILL: The head of Russia's private military company, Wagner, is claiming the entire eastern part of Bakhmut is now under their control. Well, in an exclusive interview, President Zelenskyy tells CNN that if Russia were to capture the city, it could open a door to even larger territories in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE (through translator): This is tactical for us. We understand that after Bakhmut they could go further. They could go to Kramatorsk, to Slovyansk. It will be an open road for the Russians after Bakhmut to other towns in Ukraine, in the Donetsk direction, in the east of Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Melissa Bell is live in Kyiv this morning.

So western officials, Melissa, also learning that Wagner may be running out of prisoner, which we know they've been using. So, what else is happening with in a group there?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the time being Ukrainian forces continue to hold. And just picking up there on what President Zelenskyy had to tell CNN yesterday, we've also been hearing from the head of the Wagner Group, you mentioned him, Yevgeny Prigozhin, in that video released today that the world hasn't yet seen the full force of the Russian army. And should Bakhmut fall, that is what will follow.

Now, that's important because western officials have been confirming to CNN the very important role that his men have been playing in the progressive capture of Bakhmut, moving towards the near center of the town. And that indeed is where Yevgeny Prigozhin sent his chilling message from in front of a World War II monument that they took only earlier this week confirming their forward movement. And he had this message for the Ukrainian army.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD OF RUSSIAN PRIVATE MILITARY COMPANY WAGNER (through translator): The only request, take out the elderly, children and send here normal combat-ready units. We need to deal with you here, now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: A chilling confrontational message there from Yevgeny Prigozhin, even as he moves towards the center.

Now, what we've been hearing from those western officials is that the Russians do appear to have taken the city from three sides, but they explained that is because Ukrainian forces have chosen to trade space for time. That's been their point, to try and gain as much time as they can by holding on to the center of Bakhmut for as long as they can.

And just on those western officials and what may follow next, they've also been telling CNN, Jim and Erica, and I think this is important, that looking beyond Bakhmut there seemed to be no substantial reserves of Russian forces in the wider Donetsk or Luhansk regions. And, of course, that is important in terms of what happens next.

And, again, what has been key strategy of wearing down the Russian war machine in Bakhmut, gaining time in the hope that that may prevent or lessen the Russian ability to mount any further substantial offensive moves in the weeks and months ahead.

SCIUTTO: Well, strategically the Ukrainians have often beaten others, right, as they've made decisions in this war.

Melissa Bell, in Kyiv, thanks so much.

You can see more of Wolf Blitzer's exclusive interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tonight, it's primetime. Learn why he is inviting Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy to Ukraine. All tonight, 9:00 Eastern Time.

Still ahead, how more video released from Memphis officials today could impact the police officers facing murder charges in the death of Tyre Nichols. We'll have more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:57]

SCIUTTO: The Memphis City Council has passed five new ordinances on policing in the wake of the deadly police beating of Tyre Nichols. Those changes include a plan to conduct an annual review of the MPD training academy, also requiring that police only use marked law enforcement vehicles when they conduct traffic stops.

HILL: So all of this coming as we're also waiting for Memphis to release additional video from that beating. It's expected to be released later today. And this is also on the heels of learning a seventh police officer was fired. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has been following the story and is joining us

now with some of these updates.

And, Shimon, the DOJ also now getting involved, right?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So - yes, this is being released from the Department of Justice. They just put out a press release saying that they're going to announce the review of Memphis Police Department's use of force and de-escalation policy. So that is a very significant development. This is something that the community leaders there in Memphis have been asking for and obviously a lot of questions over the stop of Tyre Nichols, how that was conducted, what kind of training these officers undergo, the force that was used, that we've seen in that body camera footage of the stop. Community members really wanted this. So they're getting that.

The other significant thing here from the Department of Justice that they're announcing here is that in the wake of Tyre Nichols' death, they're also going to be reviewing specialized units all across the country. They say that they had heard from police chiefs across the country who are assessing the use of specialized units and, where used, appropriate management, oversight and accountability for such units.

This, of course, comes because of the Scorpion Unit that these officers were a part of. This was this plain-clothes unit that was really used to aggressively fight crime in Memphis. We know other police departments across the country used these specialized units.

So now the Department of Justice is getting involved and looking at these specialized units all across the country. This is pretty significant.

HILL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: The practices and how these officers conduct these stops and what they do and the training is obviously going to be significant.

[09:55:05]

The other thing, today, what we're waiting for, Erica, is the video of that -

HILL: In Memphis.

PROKUPECZ: In Memphis that police -- the city is expecting to release this afternoon. It will be 20 additional hours of video, on top of what we have already seen, the violent nature of this car stop and then the -- their interaction between officers and Tyre Nichols.

Today's video, I expect, will be some of the chatter, the talk between the officers on scene. We also think we're going to see video of Tyre's mother and her interactions with the police when --

HILL: When they went to her door. PROKUPECZ: When they went to her door possibly. But, also, she comes

to the scene at some point, the first scene where the car was stopped, and she's actually talking to one of the officers and explains to her what happened. So we expect to see some of that as well.

HILL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: And that's going to certainly be interesting.

HILL: And important, too, as we mentioned, these specialized units, that Scorpion -- that was disbanded after Tyre Nichols.

PROKUPECZ: It was disbanded, right.

HILL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: And they're - you know, people all across the country are now saying all of these units need to be disbanded.

HILL: Right. Yes.

PROKUPECZ: But they are an important part of crime fighting, so I think police departments need to figure out how to balance that.

HILL: I'm sure that's part of why they're looking into them.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. Exactly.

HILL: Shimon, appreciate it, as always, my friend. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, we are learning more details about what happened exactly to those four Americans kidnapped by a cartel in Mexico. Two were killed, two survived, now being treated in a hospital in Texas. We're going to hear more from their families coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)