Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Multiple Capitol Hill Hearings on Aviation Safety, Worldwide Threats, U.S. Economy Concerns; Mexican Authorities Complete Autopsies on Two Kidnapping Victims; Capitol Police Chief Rips Carlson's Offensive Use of Jan. 6 Video. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 08, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour this Wednesday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I am Erica Hill.

Right now, several key hearings happening on Capitol Hill, a pretty busy day in Washington. So, this hour, lawmakers will grill Acting FAA Administrator Billy Nolen, this, of course, after multiple close calls on the runway and some other aviation incidents sparking safety concerns.

Also, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell appearing before lawmakers for a second day where he will be defending his decisions to raise interest rates in an effort to tamp down inflation.

SCIUTTO: We're also watching the top U.S. intelligence officials testify, among them FBI Director Chris Wray, the director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, on what they see the biggest global threats facing the U.S. today.

CNN's Melanie Zanona, she's on Capitol Hill with the latest. Melanie, several events, several bits of testimony on the Hill today. Walk us through what you're watching.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, a very busy day here on Capitol Hill. We are tracking a number of high-profile hearings, and I want to walk you through a couple of them. So, the first one we are watching is in the House Financial Services Committee. That is where we are going to hear testimony from Jerome Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

Yesterday, he received quite the bipartisan grilling in the Senate and so he's going to be in the hot seat again today. He was grilled over interest rates and jobs. So, I expect we'll hear more of the same today.

And the second hearing we're watching is in the Senate Commerce Science and Transportation Committee, which is having a hearing on aviation safety, something that has been in the news quite a lot lately. They'll hear from the FAA acting administrator, and it comes, of course, amid this new string of incidents, safety incidents, as well as new scrutiny on the FAA, which we should point out still does not have a permanent leader.

So, this will be an opportunity for lawmakers to ask what is going on with all of these close calls that are happening on runways lately.

And, finally, the third we are watching is in the Senate Intel Intelligence Committee, which is having its worldwide threats hearing. They're going to hear from top intelligence officials, including the CIA director and the FBI director. We are expecting China to be a big focus of that hearing, of course. And it's also just an interesting every year, because the public and lawmakers do not always get the opportunity to hear directly from the intelligence committee.

So, we are watching a number of different topics and, of course, no shortage of news here on Capitol Hill today. Jim and Erica?

HILL: That is an understatement today and every day, my friend. It certainly keeps you busy. Thank you, Melanie.

Well, this morning, Mexican officials, we've learned, have completed the autopsies of the two Americans who were kidnapped and killed in that country. The two survivors being treated at a Texas hospital.

SCIUTTO: Listen, such a sad case. They went there for a medical procedure for one of them.

CNN Correspondent Rosa Flores, she's in Brownsville, Texas, CNN National Correspondent Dianne Gallagher in Salt Lake, South Carolina.

Rosa, first to you. So, we have the autopsies now but we also have the ongoing investigation of who was responsible here, what the U.S. and Mexican response is going to be. What do we expect to learn throughout the day?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, there are still so many questions. One of the things that we are expecting today is for one of the survivors, Latavia Washington McGee, to be released from the hospital that you see behind me. The condition of the other survivor, Eric Williams, is unclear at this moment.

But to your question about what else we're asking about and we're trying to get more information, yes, the autopsies have been completed by Mexican authorities, but the cause and manner of death has not been released. That's a big question that we're following, and also the repatriation of the deceased. It is unclear when those Americans will be able to return to the United States and be reunited with their families.

All of this as we're learning more about the timeline of what actually happened minute by minute, and this is according to Mexican authorities who say that at about 9:18 A.M. on Friday, that's when the Americans crossed over to the Mexican side. They were lost for a while. They were trying to connect with the doctor that was supposed to perform that medical procedure, and more than two hours later, that's when the dramatic video was shot that shows the kidnapping of the Americans at gunpoint.

And authorities say there that they tried to trace that vehicle using surveillance cameras, but the trace went cold until they got a tip yesterday morning.

[10:05:07]

They say that they followed that tip. That tip led them to a wooded house outside of Matamoros, Mexico, and that's where they found the Americans but they did not find the individuals responsible for the kidnapping and the killing, instead an individual who was there performing surveillance.

This man, a 24-year-old from Matamoros, Mexico, was arrested and authorities are not saying whether he's linked to organized crime or the cartels in this area. But Jim and Erica, still so many questions about what transpired here and, of course, about what justice will look like.

HILL: Yes, certainly, which may be hard to come by unfortunately for a number of those families.

Dianne. I know that that is understandably part of what we're hearing from some of the family members of the victims this morning that they are hoping for justice here. What else have we learned?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Erica, Jim, a lot of this is just processing everything that has happened over the past few days. We spent some time with Latavia Washington McGee's family this morning. She was unharmed, at least physically in all of this, but her mother, Barbara Burgess told us that Shaeed Woodard, who died in this, was like a son to her, that she helped raise him, and that Zindell Brown was like another son, a cousin, if you will, to them, that they all grew up together along with Eric Williams in the small city of Lake City, South Carolina, together.

They went with her, her mother told me because she would feel safe with them. They wanted to support her on this road trip down to Mexico for that medical procedure. She said that when she saw that video that Rosa was just talking about, she feared that her daughter was going to die. And now she's trying to process the fact that Woodard did pass away and trying to sort of go through that. She didn't want to talk too much about him. But she did get a chance to speak to her daughter yesterday on the phone. She said that her daughter was crying and that she described to her the moments of that shooting and what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA MCLEOD BURGESS, MOTHER OF KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR LATAVIA WASHINGTON MCGEE: They was driving through and a van came up and hit them and that's when they started shooting at the car, shooting inside the van or whatever. And I guess she said the others tried to run and they got shot at the same time, Shaeed and Zindell. They all got at the same time. And she watched them die.

Every one of them that had something to do with it, I want them locked up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Eric Williams' wife also spoke with CNN. She said that when she talked to her husband that he was emotional on the phone because he viewed Shaeed Woodard and Zindell Brown as brothers to him, but she did say their 11-year-old son was very happy to get a chance to hear from his father.

SCIUTTO: She watched them die, her mother said. Rosa Flores, Dianne Gallagher, thanks so much to both of you.

Well, happening now, as we said, lots of activity up on Capitol Hill, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell testifying a second straight day today facing questions from House lawmakers on the financial services committee. Powell making way for potentially more interest rate hikes yesterday, something to brace for.

HILL: Joining us now, CNN Global Economic Analyst Rana Foroohar. Rana, always good to see you. So, there was certainly some heated back and forth yesterday, as I would say likely expected. We talked about this a little bit last hour, but there was a lot of attention between this back and forth between Powell and Senator Elizabeth Warren. She's basically saying, look, you are choosing to get rid of 2 million jobs. He's saying, it's not that saying. I have to deal with inflation or millions more will be impacted. How do we square those two? Is it really this binary choice here?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: What a great framing, Erica. Thank you for that. Look, there's some truth on both sides. So, Jay Powell feels that we still need to get inflation under control. He wants to hike rates. But the problem is when you do that, companies tend to pull back, they stop spending and, yes, there probably will be some job losses.

Now, I want to say we're in one of the strongest job markets, if not, the strongest job market that I've ever seen in my life, and I've been doing this for 32 years. So, that's some context. But I also have a lot of empathy for where Elizabeth Warren is because the true fact of it is when rates go up, working people do pay the price more than others. When dent of all kinds goes up on a house, on a car loan, on a student loan, you get folks that are struggling more.

Now, the problem here, and this goes to your broader question, is that the Fed has limited tools. And for the last, not just few years, but 40 years, I would argue, politicians on both sides of the table have been pushing the ball to the Fed and saying you deal with these problems. We don't want to take the tough choices.

[10:10:00]

And that's where we are now. So, that's the squaring of this very large, awkward circle.

SCIUTTO: Okay. So, to their ability, to square that circle, the Fed got inflation wrong, right? Denied that it was, you know, tractable, as intractable as it's proven to be, so late to raise interest rates, they kept interest rates low for far too long, helped contribute to a stock market bubble. I mean, why should we believe this time they're going to get it right, bringing in inflation down just enough without tanking the economy?

FOROOHAR: Well, Jim, that's a very good question. You know, I think I don't know. And one of the reasons we don't know is we are dealing with the most complicated economy again that I've in decades. I mean, let's think about some of the causes of inflation. Yes, we have a hot labor market and that's something that policymakers are worried about. We also have a war in Ukraine that's keeping energy prices very high, is affecting food prices, we have supply chain issues still. It's a very complicated world. And so I don't want to point the finger at the Fed alone and say oh, my gosh, you guys have gotten it wrong and it's your fault with this mess. It's a complicated, messy world out there, I think they're doing the best they can.

HILL: Our colleague, Poppy Harlow, spoke with the head of the IMF earlier, so I'm going to paraphrase here because I know we're tight on time, but basically said that Jerome Powell should just continue doing what he's doing at this point. When we look at inflation, recession concerns, they're not unique to the United States. So, how much is the Fed, how much even are lawmakers in this country looking at what's happening globally? How does that influence the decision that Powell and the Fed are making?

FOROOHAR: Again, excellent question. A lot of countries and leaders abroad are saying that. They're saying, U.S., get your house in order because what happens to the U.S. affects the world. The dollar is the global reserve currency. When our markets are out of control, when our inflation is out of control, it affects the world.

I tend to agree that Powell should hold the course. I think the risk of pulling back and then missing a bigger bout later on is more worrisome to me than, you know, the cost of capital going up. I would love to see, though, some supports for working people and some fiscal policy to put a safety net under folks as rates do go up.

HILL: It would be interesting to see whether that would happen. Rana, I always appreciate your insight, your expertise. Thank you.

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

HILL: Still to come here, some Republicans expressing outrage over the way Fox Host Tucker Carlson is framing the events of January 6th, this after he was given access to tens of thousands of hours of footage. What more are they saying? That's ahead.

SCIUTTO: Yes, senators, not members of the House.

Plus, federal regulators now seeking Elon Musk's internal communications about layoffs at Twitter. They fear that cuts could be putting user privacy at risk.

And another critical hearing on Capitol Hill, the heads of U.S. intelligence agencies testifying about the bigger global threats to U.S. national security, this as tensions between the U.S. and China are on the rise, also between the U.S. and Russia with the war on Ukraine raging on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Offensive and misleading, that's how the chief of the U.S. Capitol police is describing Fox News Host Tucker Carlson's attempt to, in effect, rewrite history of the January 6th insurrection, describing it as a peaceful gathering. Speaker Kevin McCarthy, you may remember, gave Carlson access to tens of thousands of hours of footage from the Capitol attack.

HILL: Well, a number of his fellow Republican lawmakers, senators, specifically, not too happy with Fox's decision to play that with Tucker Carlson downplaying the insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): It was a mistake, in my view, for Fox News to depict this in a way that's completely at variance with what our chief law enforcement official here at the Capitol thinks.

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I was there on January 6th. I saw what happened. I saw the aftermath. Look, was there violence on January 6th. I think the footage that's available should be made available to all networks and everybody should be able to see for themselves just what kind of chaos we had on that day.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think it's bullshit. I was here. I was down there. And I saw maybe a few tourists, a few people who got caught up in things. But when you see police barricades breached, when you see police officers assaulted, I just don't think it's helpful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: He's not the only one. CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joining us now from Capitol Hill. So, Manu, you also spoke to McCarthy last night. What is he saying?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he defended the decision. In fact, he did not agree with the criticism from Senator McConnell and also the criticism from the U.S. Capitol police chief who said that this portrayal on Fox News of January 6th was offensive, it was misleading, it was cherry-picked. Mitch McConnell is saying he aligned himself squarely with that.

And when I asked the speaker whether or not he regretted providing this footage to Tucker Carlson, who attempted to whitewash the events, the speaker defended his decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: The footage that you gave Tucker Carlson last night, he went on saying this is a mostly peaceful chaos, as he said, he downplayed Brian Sicknick's death, said it was not related, January 6th said it's an insurrection. Do you regret giving him those tapes so he could whitewash the events of that day?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): No. I said from the very beginning transparency. And so what I want to produce for everybody is exactly what I said, that people can actually look at it and see what went on that day.

[10:20:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you go agree with the portrayal of what happened that day?

MCCARTHY: Look, each person can come up with their own conclusion, but I just want to make sure is I have transparency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, he continued to say that he wanted to provide for transparency but that would not explain why he provided it to Carlson, who has long had a history of downplaying the events of that day that McCarthy himself condemned immediately after that happened on the House floor days later, but really exposing the divide here between the House Republicans and Senate Republicans in particular over January 6th, the fallout of that and the role of Donald Trump in the party going forward.

McCarthy, of course, aligning him squarely with Trump, Mitch McConnell on the other side taking a much different approach on how the party should handle these issues going forward, all being exposed now and over McCarthy's handling of the security footage and this attempt to provide a different light about what happened on January 6th by Fox News and by some House Republicans as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, Thom Tillis not mincing words there, calling it B.S. Manu Raju, thanks so much.

Well, today, newly disclosed messages from some of the biggest stars and executives at Fox News show that what they said and communicated in private contrasted what they told their viewers and repeatedly. A trove of text, emails, other material made public Tuesday as part of Dominion Voting Systems' $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the right-wing channel, Fox's staff privately criticized, dismissed Trump's election fraud lies even though the network continued to promote them on the air.

Take a look at these messages from November 20th between Fox Host Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham. Carlson writes, former Trump Attorney Sidney Powell, who's sharing many of these lies, quote, is a nut, to which Ingraham replies, no serious lawyer could believe what they were saying. But just one night later, this is what Ingraham was saying on the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Now, legal challenges continue in a number of states, serious questions about vote counting, poll watcher access are outstanding, but unless the legal situation changes in a dramatic and, frankly, an unlikely manner, Joe Biden will be inaugurated on January 20th.

Now, to say this does not mean I don't think that this election was rife with problems and potential fraud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Despite what Tucker Carlson has said behind the scenes, he is still, to this day, sowing doubts on air. This is from his show on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: In retrospect, it is clear the 2020 election was a grave betrayal of American democracy.

It is galling to be lectured about democracy by a man who took power in an election so sketchy that many Americans don't believe it was even real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, NPR Media Correspondent David Folkenflik. David, good to have you on today.

DAVID FOLKENFLIK, MEDIA CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Great to join you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, David, based on what we're seeing from Tucker Carlson, despite the fact that now we know he was lying to his viewers around the election, saying one thing in private, one thing on the air, he is still calling the election into question. Are any Murdoch-owned publications, whether it be Fox, Fox Business, New York Post, Wall Street Journal, are the viewers or readers of any of those publications seeing what we're seeing here, the revelations from these court documents?

FOLKENFLIK: Oh, I think if you read The Wall Street Journal, you are getting a very straightforward news report and its pages often prominently displayed of what actually transpired. And I think you're seeing folks from The Wall Street Journal's news side trying to ensure that its reading public believes in its brand promise that of telling the news straight and without fear or favor.

It's a game that Murdoch plays. He sort of separates in his mind how he treats his upscale broadsheet newspapers like the Times of London and The Wall Street Journal from the tabloids, like the New York Post, which he treats more like Fox News, which is you're going to see the political influence throughout the entire report.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Now, we should note, is it correct that Fox News banned any discussion of this given that it was Fox News where the majority of these lies were shared with viewers?

FOLKENFLIK: Yes. You saw Fox News' own chief media correspondent and the anchor, Howie Kurtz, come forward about ten days ago and say that he was barred from discussing on his show that he disagreed with it, that that was the corporate edict. That's an extraordinary admission. Because for Fox News to smother coverage of the biggest story in media and one of the biggest stories in politics right now is a concession that they're not putting news values first.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And, listen, it allows the lie to continue and it's why we see in polls why many Republican voters still believe to this day that the election was stolen.

The lawsuit goes right to the top. It reveals that Fox Corp, News Corp Chairman Rupert Murdoch, he repeatedly himself rejected the election conspiracy theories, reading now, Dominion lawyer asked him, do you believe that Dominion was engaged in a massive and coordinated effort to steal the 2020 presidential election?

[10:25:15]

No. Have you ever seen any credible evidence to suggest Dominion was engaged in a massive and coordinated effort to steal the 2020 presidential election? No.

So, the boss knew it, and, by the way, the questions went on and he continued to answer, no. The boss knew it, let his outlets continue to spread those lies. What are the consequences? What are the most likely consequences here in this case?

FOLKENFLIK: Well, right at the moment, this is barreling towards court date, a trial date, I should say, in the middle of next month. It's a $1.6 billion defamation case brought by Dominion Voting Systems, whose machines were described and software were described on Fox's airwaves, at times seemingly endorsed by a number of Fox's top stars as having thrown votes from Donald Trump, then the sitting president, to Joe Biden. It seems likely that if they lose in court, they'll have to pay a lot, they'll appeal it. And then at that point, one might see some sort of settlement.

The key thing for Murdoch is he made clear in that same deposition he would never apologize. He didn't think they did anything wrong, or at least that's his position. It certainly dovetails with their legal defense. All they were doing was relaying the claims of president of the United States, as newsworthy figure, and his attorneys. But what really is happening is that they want to acknowledge their own viewers that they presented information they knew is false. They're willing to pay money to kind of avoid that.

SCIUTTO: You, and, by the way, that something that happens in the corporate world oftentimes, where you pay money out and admit no wrongdoing, you mentioned the split that you often see between how the Wall Street Journal covers stories and how Fox and the Post. There is this sense you hear some time that within Fox News, there are the nighttime, primetime broadcasters who go out on a limb, sometimes further, but that you do have a newscast of record, et cetera, that takes a different tact in terms of how to cover these things.

But, again, from the court documents, the former Fox Washington, D.C. managing editor, Bill Sammon, he said this. It's remarkable how weak ratings makes good journalists do bad things. What I see us doing is losing the silent majority of viewers as we chase the nuts off a cliff. I mean, he was saying as well that they were still covering those things many weeks after the election when they knew they weren't true. Is there a split within Fox as to those who cover this honestly and those who spout about it in primetime?

FOLKENFLIK: I think there's a sharp divide and then there's a divide inside the news division about how aggressively to go after the facts and whether to turn one's gaze away. You saw in some of those documents a number of Fox News journalists, reporters and a producer in their private text messages that came to light as a result of this trial -- of seeking of evidence in preparation for this trial.

And they were saying essentially they were being punished, like Kristin Fisher, one of the reporters covering the White House at the time for Fox News, Jillian Turner were saying essentially they were having the opportunity to host programs for Fox and serve as substitute hosts taken away from them as they fact-checked these issues. A producer on special report, their political newscast, texted to Kristin Fisher, saying that he had to leave because he no longer could defend -- imagine defending where he worked to his infant daughter as she grew up trying to teach her the right thing. He didn't think Fox cared about that anymore.

And so you saw these people saying there were constrictions of opportunities to level with the audience and, by the way, the documents revealed in this evidence show that that went very much at the top, that Fox News, the chief executive and others really wanted to tell viewers what they wanted to hear and in a tone they could absorb as opposed to level with them about the events.

SCIUTTO: And the trouble is now we're seeing a similar gaslighting with January 6th, the events of January 6th.

David Folkenflik, good to have you on.

FOLKENFLIK: A pleasure.

HILL: Still ahead here, close calls on the runways, scary moments in the sky, the acting head of FAA in the hot seat today on Capitol Hill. What we may learn from that testimony, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]