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DOJ: Louisville Police Dept. Violates Constitution, Civil Rights Act; DOJ Launches Federal Investigation Into Memphis Police Department; New Trove Of Documents Made Public In Dominion Lawsuit Against Fox; Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 08, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Victor Blackwell.

We begin with two major announcements from the Department of Justice both on policing. After the officer involved in the deadly beating of Tyre Nichols, the feds will now investigate the practices of the entire Memphis police department. And in Louisville, Kentucky, Attorney General Merrick Garland just revealed the findings of the federal investigation into that city's police department. It goes beyond just deeply troubling. They found conduct that violates the Constitution and Civil Rights Act.

GOLODRYGA: Now, the report comes just days before the three-year anniversary of the death of Breonna Taylor, a black woman who was shot and killed during a no-knock raid on her apartment. Today, Garland says her tragic death was a symptom of the problems that have been festering within the Louisville Police Department for years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: LMPD has relied heavily on pre-textual traffic stops in black neighborhoods, insulted people with disabilities, and call black people, monkeys, animal, and boy. This conduct is unacceptable. It's heartbreaking. It erodes the community trust necessary for effective policing. And it is an affront to the vast majority of officers who put their lives on the line every day to serve Louisville with honor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us. Just a horrific and damning report. We also heard that Garland was talking about problems within the department that he laid out. What are the consequences, though, and the solutions here?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the consequences, Bianna and Victor, is that the Justice Department is going to be doing an agreement or signing an agreement with the Louisville city government there. And it's going to be -- it's going to be enforced by a court. A judge is going to be essentially helping to oversee the changes that the local police department -- State Department is promising to make. Obviously, they're -- some of the -- some of the changes, they say have already begun.

For instance, they've abandoned some of these no-knock warrants. They have already begun on some of these remedial measures. They have changed the use of these specialized crime units. They started using mental health experts to go on some of these police stops -- or police calls rather so that -- to try to -- try to avoid some of these instances where things escalate into violence.

All of this is going to be overseen by a third party. This is something that police departments often try to avoid. But it could, could make this police department a lot more responsive to the community that it serves. And this -- that this report really does paint a very, very ugly picture, something that you know, frankly harkens back to 60 years ago in some of the cities in the south during the Civil Rights era.

We got a reaction from Tamika Palmer, Breonna Taylor's Mother. I'll read you just a part of it. It says what was confirmed today is that I should still be able to pick up the phone and reach my eldest daughter, Breonna. It took us having to fight day in and day out for years simply because I deserve justice for my daughter's murder to kickstart this investigation, but today's findings are an indicator that Breonna's death is not in vain. Certainly, those are words that you have to believe others in the community who have suffered this abuse by this police department, at least according to this report, I'm sure are also saying, Bianna and Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Evan, stay with us. I know we have to go to Memphis.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, where city officials and the police department will soon face their own federal investigation. The Department of Justice says it will offer guidelines to all major cities that have specialized units just like the one the officers involved in the Tyre Nichols' death were a part of. The so-called Scorpion unit there has since been disbanded.

BLACKWELL: CNN senior crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz is with us now. So, what more will the DOJ be investigating in this city's police department?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, they're looking -- it's going to be a review of the use of force policy and the de-escalation policy, something that both have come to be at the center of the Tyre Nichols case in terms of how they proceeded to stop him.

[14:05:02]

The efforts that were made after that to de-escalate. I mean, from the body camera footage that we have so far seen, you don't see any efforts there by police to de-escalate it. And if anything, there's a -- there's an escalation that they're still really no clear explanation for -- from city officials to the police department.

So, they're going to be looking at that you know. There has definitely been some information that has come to the federal investigators. The FBI has been involved in the investigation there. That seems to indicate there is a troubling pattern by the Memphis Police Department.

So, on the heels of all that, this is something that the community wanted. This is something that Tyre Nichols' family wanted. And so, as a result of all that, the DOJ is saying, OK we're going to come in, and we're going to look at some of these practices, some -- and review, the use of force and de-escalation.

But also significant, as you mentioned, is this. They're not looking at the specialized units. And this was something that I find -- found very interesting. In the release from DOJ, they said that police chiefs called them and said, you know, we want help. We want to know what we should be doing with these units. And so, DOJ is now going to step in and try and review some of their actions in the specialized units.

GOLODRYGA: And not just the unit in Memphis, but the -- you know across the state -- the country.

PROKUPECZ: All across the country, you know.

GOLODRYGA: We also got some more news out of Memphis.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: We were waiting for the video to be released surrounding the death of Tyre Nichols. That's not happening right now. Why?

PROKUPECZ: Well, the attorney for one of the now former officers went into court today and at the last minute filed a motion in order asking the judge to prevent the city from releasing what was to be some 20 hours, 40 different clips of the video in the aftermath. And some of the before, some of the interaction between the officers, and audio can be talking and other information that they were set to release today and even tomorrow, like administrative information about the hearings and other documents that we were expecting to get. But now all of a sudden, the defense attorney for Desmond Mills, who was one of the former officers, Blake Ballin went into court, and the judge agreed with him.

And we don't know why. We weren't there. We only found out about this at the last minute when pretty much the hearing was over. And so, we're trying to figure out why this judge decided to rule in Mr. Ballin's favor. So, we'll see.

I mean, we're going to obviously continue to fight to get that. But I think the city may have -- made every effort. They were hoping to get this out today. And now this is not happening today, so you know, obviously that fight is going to continue.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, a last-minute development there.

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: You'll continue to follow it for us. Shimon, stay with us. CNN's Evan Perez is back with us. And also joining us is retired NYPD Lieutenant Darrin Porcher. Thanks for joining us, Darrin. You were lieutenant of the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau so cases like Breonna Taylor's and Tyre Nichols's would fall under your jurisdiction. What is your reaction to the report that we heard from the DOJ regarding the Louisville police department and also news that they are now launching an investigation into the Memphis Police Department as well?

Well, thanks for having me. Think -- I don't think this was a surprise to anyone. We clearly knew that they were atrocities that existed in both of these police departments. So, when we have the federal government step in and conducting an assessment as to what's happening and then amplify that information to us as a nation, now it gives us cause to move forward with the next step.

DARRIN PORCHER, RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT: What we're speaking to? That's going to happen now with something referred to as a consent decree. Oftentimes, you hear a police department that falls under the purview of these consent decrees. Case in point. The NYPD fell under a consent decree after the stop-and-frisk lawsuit. The same held true after the arrest of Eric Garner. We see it happen in a lot of the larger police departments such as Chicago after the death of Laquan McDonald.

What the federal government does with this -- with these consent decrees is they make a series of recommendations. However, there's not a lot of teeth attached to this. When I say not a lot of teeth attached to it, meaning the recommendations such as training and additional resources will be introduced. But ultimately, the onus is upon the municipality to pay for it.

In many instances, the municipality just doesn't have the money to pay for it. Therefore, it becomes a more challenging narrative moving forward. And in many instances, these consent decrees don't accomplish anything. And we see another one happened another three to four years later.

BLACKWELL: Evan, after listening to the Attorney General today, something just stuck with me. Darrin just mentioned Laquan McDonald and Eric Garner. There was an investigation by the DOJ of the Baltimore Police Department after the death of Freddie Gray. There was an investigation in Ferguson after Mike Brown. Now, Louisville after Breanna Taylor. Still waiting for Minneapolis. And then now there's Memphis as well.

What initiates these investigations? Do unarmed black people have to die first and then they investigate these police departments or can these happen without the tragic loss first?

PEREZ: Look, Victor. The just --you know, the fact that you said those words really does, I think call into question you know, the way the Justice Department and everyone has handled these things.

[14:10:03]

I think honestly, they should be initiated without something tragic happening. But unfortunately, that's what gets people's attention. So, if you look at this report, you can see over the period of years going back to 2014, and 2015, that the Louisville Police Department knows it has a problem. It Commission's reports that find that African Americans are getting the brunt of brutal and abusive treatment.

And what they do repeatedly is they just bury these reports. They don't do anything about it. And so, what the Justice Department has tried to do over the last few years is to try to do these types of investigations. They've come in a lot of criticism from people on Capitol Hill who believe that the federal government is essentially sitting in the -- in the backseat of every cop car and is trying to second guess what police officers do their work.

There's a lot of pressure to try to not have these things put the onus on the police departments. But clearly, there needs to be a change around the country. There are a few cities where these consent decrees have worked in Los Angeles, for instance. You see that there is some response from the community that they feel -- they feel the police department is serving them better. But unfortunately, what you just described, and what you just said, is exactly the truth. And there's a lot of frustration that this is what it takes for there to be a tragedy for anything to happen.

GOLODRYGA: And, Darrin, Louisville currently has an interim police chief. What are some of the challenges and sort of first steps that she's going to have to be facing to implement what we're hearing from this report and its recommendations?

PORCHER: Well, there's a cultural socialization within all police departments. So, when we have a new police chief just introduced as the head of the organization, the goal is to fracture that cultural socialization within a police department and rebuild it with policies that are sound and better assist or serve that community. Another challenge that we have in policing is there's no national standard in policing.

We have certain laws such as Graham versus Connor, which invoked the precedent in terms of the use of force, but a lot of the substantive issues that exist. And these police departments are different from one department to the next. And a lot of that is attributed to laws or more or less the budget that manages that police department. So, we now have a chief that's going to come in.

And I think the best that that police chief can do is predicated on the elected official. If the mayor gives the police chief the green light to do certain things, then the police chief can do it. But if you have the elected official that somewhat hesitant, then that's when we have greater constraints. And this is a national problem in all police departments.

BLACKWELL: Shimon, on this Tyre Nichols video, you are much closer to the story than I, reporting on it there in Memphis. Was there an attempt by the attorneys to block the initial tranche of videos?

PROKUPECZ: Well, no. And some of them were not brought into the case yet.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: But there wasn't. They were actually when I think about it now because it got released after, yes -- no, there wasn't. you're right. That's a good point. No, there wasn't they never made an effort to block the release of that -- of that video because they were ready representing these guys.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: So, yes, that's a very good point, Victor, actually. So, we don't know why all of a sudden. Now, I'm not sure -- you look, I've seen some of this video that was supposed to come out today. You know, we've been out there working this story. I'm not necessarily certain that this hurts these officers. Certainly not by any means. Is it any worse than what we have already seen so --

BLACKWELL: That's what I'm thinking. If they've seen this, is it worse for the client?

PROKUPECZ: Correct. I don't know. I -- and that's the thing. I am puzzled by this. And I -- you know none of the other attorneys did.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it's just one.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: There's only one attorney that's, you know, I've asked him for an explanation so far, I don't have it. So, I don't know. You know this is really puzzling because it's also the city's property. You know, there's a duty to inform the public and this case is, you know, the high-interest case.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: And it took so long now to get this video because they've been saying they were going to release it for weeks, but they were waiting till they were finished with these administrative hearings. It's done. So, I don't know. It's very puzzling. And you know, I think you just made a really good point.

BLACKWELL: OK.

GOLODRYGA: But, Shimon, I would imagine there's not much surprise and hearing that the DOJ has now launched an investigation to the Memphis Police.

PROKUPECZ: No. And I think it's going to -- we're going to -- see similar to what we see in Louisville is going to be happening in Memphis because in talking to people in that community, the car stops, these pretextual car stops the way the police is treated, some of them and I know now-- BLACKWELL: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: that there are even officers inside the police department who are cooperating with the DOJ investigation, who didn't want to come forward in for -- information in this initially, but have since this happened to Tyre Nichols have come forward with information that perhaps is going to be very troubling for the Memphis Police Department.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it gets to the point of culture within that department especially.

PROKUPECZ: Exactly.

BLACKWELL: All right, Evan Perez, Shimon Prokupecz, and Darrin Portcher, Thank you all.

PEREZ: Thanks.

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BLACKWELL: New CNN reporting on the House GOP plan to revisit the insurrection. Sources say Republicans are plotting multiple investigations looking into things like security new CNN reporting on the House GOP plan to revisit the insurrection sources say Republicans are plotting multiple investigations looking into things like security failures, the Select Committee's actions, and potentially the treatment of January six defendants.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And this comes as we get new evidence from a lawsuit against Fox showing the real-time doubts among executives and hosts about election conspiracies that led to the Capitol attack. We'll discuss it all up next.

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BLACKWELL: More damning documents from Dominion Voting Systems' billion-dollar defamation suit against Fox News.

GOLODRYGA: A new trove of texts and e-mails reveal in stunning detail how the channel promoted baseless conspiracy theories on air while also rejecting them outright behind the scenes. CNN's Paul Reid has details.

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PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): New internal communications from some of Fox News's most prominent figures show concerns in misgiving some had about then President Donald Trump's claims of election fraud and the company's handling of the 2020 election results. According to court documents, host Tucker Carlson texted a producer on January 4, 2021. We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. The conversation continues. Referring to Trump, Carlson says I hate him passionately. I can't handle much more of this.

[14:20:11]

The private communications from Carlson are a sharp contrast to his public support for the former president as seen on his program that night.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS: The president, as you may have heard, believes the election was stolen from him. Georgia secretary of state whose job it is to oversee elections disagrees. You can listen to the call yourself. It's online and you can make up your own mind.

REID: The text messages are part of a trove of documents and communications released Tuesday from Dominion voting systems' $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the right-wing network. Fox responding to the latest document released in part saying Dominion has been caught red-handed using more distortions and misinformation in their PR campaign to smear Fox News and trample on free speech and freedom of the press. Dominion is saying in a statement, the e-mails texts, and deposition testimony speak for themselves.

The communications reveal Fox corporation chairman Rupert Murdoch was furious Fox News called the 2020 election for Biden and wrote in an e- mail to the former New York Post editor-in-chief, CNN declares and Fox coming in minutes. I hate our decision desk people. And pollsters. Some of the same people, I think.

More than a month after the 2020 election, Fox News's DC managing editor wrote in a private message to a colleague he feared that the network's coverage of Trump's election fraud claims were becoming an existential crisis for the company. Murdoch conceded in an e-mail to Fox News CEO Suzanne Scott in January 2021, that some of Fox's top talent went too far in their coverage.

During his deposition, Murdoch asked, do you believe that Dominion was engaged in a massive and coordinated effort to steal the 2020 presidential election? Murdock replied, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dominion has made an effort to show that Rupert Murdoch was hands-on that is that he was aware of what people were saying on his air, that he had the ability to stop these guests from appearing and repeating these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Both sides of this case have asked a judge to resolve it in their favor. And there's also a small chance this could potentially settle. But if none of those things happen, this case is going to trial next month in Delaware and it will absolutely be one to watch, Victor and Erica.

BLACKWELL: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, Sara Fischer. She's a CNN media analyst and media reporter for Axios. And former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Also, a CNN political commentator.

Sara, let me start with you. The people who need to know about this hypocrisy, Tucker's viewers, won't see it, won't hear it because they have a diet that only encompasses the Fox universe.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. But although in this particular case, I think there's a chance that they might. This case has become such a national headline across so many forms of media. I open up my phone, I see people talking about it on TikTok, people are talking about it on Instagram. So, I think that they're understanding that Fox is getting sued for saying something wrong.

Now, the challenge is, do they choose to care and do they choose to believe that Fox did something wrong even if Fox loses the suit? That's the real question, Victor. And I think to your point, Fox News's viewers at this point, they're choosing that that's the network that they're going to believe and go with, and they'll probably believe their defense, even if they end up losing.

GOLODRYGA: Congressman, do you agree? I mean, I'm asking because former Speaker Paul Ryan sits on the board and was asked about this and his at least public silence in regards to what Fox News was promoting on a daily basis. And he -- his justification was I told the people who needed to know. But Fox is an integral part of this country and of one of the two major parties in this country to move forward. So, do you think this will have an impact not only on Fox viewers but perhaps on what its hosts say on-air?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it'll have an impact in the future. I think, you know, the younger people today that maybe in ten years will be deciding where they want to get their news from. This may scare him away. So, you might have -- you might see like a clock being put on kind of the future viability of Fox News if it doesn't change.

But yes, I agree that people may know this was going on, you know, pretty much strictly Fox viewers may know, but they're going to be hit on a daily basis. Maybe not with refuting these text messages but with things like everything is a conspiracy, you know, January 6 was a conspiracy, it never actually happened.

And so, when that happens, you are inoculated against anything that makes Fox News look bad because you've come to believe that everything is a conspiracy, and everybody's out to get you. So, it obviously hasn't changed Tucker Carlson at all because he's doubling down on complete and utter lies, dangerous lies. So, we'll see what it does for the network.

[14:25:02]

BLACKWELL: Congressman, let me stay with you. And what we're learning now, Manu Raju reporting that there will be several avenues of investigation into January 6, including into the work of the committee. Your reaction to that reporting.

KINZINGER: It's funny because the Republicans will always say things like, let's just move past January 6. So, watch. They say let's move past January 6 when the facts are coming out. And they don't want to talk about him anymore. When they get to try to control some version of a narrative to you know, really just kind of Fox News, Newsmax viewers. That's what they're excited about.

Look, if they do a truthful investigation, a big question, you know, they're going to see exactly what we showed, which is this was a Donald Trump-inspired insurrection. So, I have no idea where they're going to go from here unless it's just complete utter lies. I'm sure. Speaker McCarthy is pretty nervous about this because he knows -- I mean the guy's smart, he knows exactly what happened.

GOLODRYGA: And I also ran on this right before the midterms that they would launch this investigation, it looks like it is going forward. Sara, in terms of the bigger picture, legally, at least for Fox, what do you think the consequences could be here? I asked you off camera if you think they would settle and as we heard from Polish thinks that was a slim chance. So, what happens now?

FISCHER: So, they're going to go to trial in April. And I think it's very likely if you talk to legal experts that they lose the case. Now, they could be looking at $1.6 billion of damages, it could be even more. But what it means from a 30,000-foot view is that this is a precedent for the First Amendment in cable news.

Moving forward, you would expect Fox to be a lot more careful about the things that they allege to their hosts, and about what they communicate internally to each other now that they've seen that they can be deposed, and their text messages can become public. And hopefully, that means that they take more, you know, rational approach to this type of coverage. But you know, it all comes down to what this trial goes in April.

And remember, they have Dominion, many lawsuits, not just against Fox, but against others. This is the first one that's going to trial. And so, if Fox loses this one, could be momentum for Dominion to pursue others.

BLACKWELL: You know, it's interesting, you say that they ran on this. And they did. They said they would investigate the committee. They threatened to call people back to subpoena members.

And, Congressman, I wonder if you see a link between these two stories we're talking about. Fox's handling of January 6, then McCarthy giving the video to Tucker, and he sets his narrative, and then a couple of days later, the announcement of we're going to investigate. Do you see some link in the timing here or am I just reaching

KINZINGER: Well, I mean, I don't know but it seems really -- I mean they've been in power for 60 some days. And literally, just now, it's symbolic. I think -- I think there is definitely something here.

You know, the interesting thing is Kevin McCarthy gave this to Tucker Carlson. He didn't give it to Fox News writ large. He gave it to the biggest conspiracy theory for January 6, Tucker. And I think if you look at why, he either made a promise, there's some grand plan and he knows Tucker is one of the really has probably way more power than he does, quite honestly. And he's also now his buddy on speed dial.

So, yes, there's going to be something here. And it's not a narrative he can win, you know writ large, can't win this with the country, but he can try to win it with the 30 percent of the Republican base. And that's what frankly, unfortunately, the Republicans' target has been for about the last five or six years is just speaking to the base, not the broader American people.

GOLODRYGA: And, Congressman, even when you have leaders of your own party saying, you know what they call it BS, I'm not going to say the word but I mean, they have been very clear for the most part, and McConnell as well about what happened on that day they were there. And they're condemning the interpretation and the cherry-picking here and the whitewashing that they're seeing on Fox News with Tucker Carlson airing these bits and pieces.

KINZINGER: Well, he bet, yes. I mean, there have been a lot of people speaking out. Some of them that speak out, they kind of hedge a little, don't say names, that's fine at least we'll take something. But there's a lot of people that aren't.

And this is a point where as a party, as a member of the House, or a member of the Senate, you swear an oath, not to your district. I'm sorry, that offends people. You don't swear an oath to your district. You swear an oath to the Constitution. And that oath to the Constitution says you will do the right thing, including telling the truth, even if it cost you everything. Just remember that whenever you're swearing an oath, it's not to the people you represent. It's to the Constitution.

BLACKWELL: All right. Sara Fischer, CNN media analyst, and Adam Kinzinger, CNN senior political commentator, thank you both.

The acting head of the FAA is facing lawmakers on Capitol Hill today to address the alarming string of terrifying incidents in the sky. Also, those close calls on the ground.

GOLODRYGA: Plus, the frightening moments that led up to the fatal abduction of a group of Americans in Mexico. Hear the harrowing details from one of the survivors ahead.

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