Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Lawyer Slams Media After Trump Says He Expects Tuesday Arrest; NYPD Officials Briefed On Security Measures; Federal Reserve To Meet Next Week Amid Banking Sector Turmoil; Giant Seaweed Blob Heading Toward Florida Beaches; Voters React To Rep. George Santos Potential Re-election Bid; Family Of Fort Hood Soldier Wants FBI To Investigate Her Death; Three Hospital Staffers Charged In Death Of Man In Custody. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 18, 2023 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:27]

PAULA REID, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Paula Reid in Washington. Jim Acosta is off.

And tonight, an attorney for former President Trump blames the media for Trump's claim that he'll be arrested on Tuesday in Manhattan. In a statement to CNN, Joe Tacopina says, "No one tells us anything which is very frustrating. President Trump is basing his response on press reports and the fact that this is a political prosecution, and the D.A. leaks things to the press instead of communicating to the lawyers as they should."

Now, this drama began earlier today on Trump's Truth Social page. After predicting his arrest on Tuesday, the former president urged his supporters to, quote, "Take back our nation." And tonight his campaign is already fundraising off of his claims, which have not been confirmed. There is no indication that he will be arrested Tuesday.

Now sources tell me and my colleague Kristen Holmes that Trump's legal team has gotten no word from the Manhattan district attorney's office about the timing of any possible indictment. Another source says the former president has been pushing his team to get the base riled up over the idea because he believes it would help him politically.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is following the latest developments in this longtime investigation into possible hush money payments.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Paula, Donald Trump does say that he is expecting to be arrested on Tuesday in Manhattan in this going financial crimes investigation. But he actually doesn't know at this point in time. A spokesperson for Trump said this morning in a statement that there has been no indication formally from the Manhattan district attorney's office that Trump is about to be indicted or arrested.

However, we do know that this ongoing investigation into possible financial crimes may be falsification of business records at the Trump Organization all connecting back to that $130,000 payment that Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen made to Stormy Daniels to cover up things that she wanted to allege in his 2016 campaign. All of that investigation is nearing the end because Trump was invited to testify which he had the right to do. He declined to do that.

That is the sort of thing that happens at the very end of a grand jury investigation like this. But we do know that there is another witness coming into the grand jury on Monday, at least scheduled to be testifying. And so at this point in time, we don't know exactly when or exactly what charges may be approved or maybe asked to be approved by the grand jury sitting in Manhattan in this unprecedented investigation that could lead to a criminal charge against the former president of the United States -- Paula.

REID: Katelyn Polantz, thank you.

Meantime, sources tell CNN that meetings have been going on throughout the week among city, state and federal law enforcement agencies in New York about security preparations in case Trump's predictions are correct.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is outside the Manhattan criminal courthouse with more.

Polo, CNN has learned that NYPD officials were briefed on security measures today?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Paula, these law enforcement officials that are engaged in these ongoing behind-the-scenes conversations telling CNN that there are some concerns that they've raised when or at least should we reach that point where Donald Trump would have to come here to lower Manhattan to answer to any potential charges. And among those concerns would certainly be courthouse security.

A reminder, we do live in a post-January 6th world. And so there are certainly concerns about the potential for demonstrations or rallies by Trump supporters. And that today's message from the former president could further galvanize them to take them beyond just peaceful protests and then resulting counter protests perhaps. And that is why local, state and federal officials, according to several sources speaking to CNN, are having these conversations about how they would respond.

Another just fascinating wrinkle in all this, Paula, is one federal source told our colleague John Miller that the former president's Secret Service protective detail is also engaged in conversations with fellow agents here in New York City about what the logistics would look like in terms transporting Donald Trump to the region, here to the Manhattan district attorney's office, to respond, or at least to face any potential charges and go through the booking process just like any other way which would include fingerprinting, mugshot photos being taken, and of course, the eventual arraignment of a defendant.

[19:05:03]

Obviously because of the attention on this, it is expected that this would happen away from crowds, away from cameras. But we'll certainly have to see, of course, should we arrive at that point. But it just goes to -- speak to the fascinating and unprecedented nature of the behind-the-scenes conversations that are happening. Among those are obviously coming from law enforcement that are trying to sort of forecast where we would be should we reach that point. Of course, we're talking about charges being filed against the former president -- Paula.

REID: Polo Sandoval, thank you.

And joining us now, CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. She's also a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.

Juliette, of course, calling for protests is legal, protected by the First Amendment. But how much does the specter of January 6th hang over Trump's latest remarks, calling for protest, protest, protest?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. And even before January 6th, Trump became an expert or was an expert in using language to incite without actually directing it. I mean, even for January 6th, it was clear what he wanted to happen but he never said, you know, to storm Congress and loot. And I think actually the language in the statement this morning, what was less troublesome is protest. That's fine. We're a democracy.

It was his take America back language. That's directly from January 6th. But the language that he used on January 6th somehow, something is being taken away from me, and I have to fight essentially with violence to get it back.

The times have changed. And Trump will begin to realize that. I mean, one is he's not in power so he can't direct law enforcement agencies. Hundreds of people are in jail or been indicted. He cannot promise to pardon people. Law enforcement as we're reporting is clearly on notice. And he's thrown out this Tuesday day. I kind of doubt it. I don't -- you know, if they're honestly, Paula, if they're interviewing a witness on Monday, the Tuesday date is probably Trump wanting to have us all look at Tuesday. It doesn't happen and him saying, look, they don't have it. So we just wait until there's actually movement.

REID: You make a great point. And again our reporting is there is no indication that there's an arrest on Tuesday.

KAYYEM: Exactly.

REID: His team hasn't been told that, and as we've been reporting there is a witness coming Monday.

KAYYEM: Yes.

REID: But as Trump calls for the protest, the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, he's gone on Twitter to say any arrest would be, quote, "an outrageous abuse of power by a radical D.A. who lets violent criminals walk as he pursues political vengeance against President Trump."

Now how do those remarks play? Because really he's talking about the potentially politically motivated prosecution.

KAYYEM: Yes.

REID: But Trump is calling for people to take back the country.

KAYYEM: Hit the street, yes.

REID: Yes. You can't reconcile that really.

KAYYEM: Right. And I found McCarthy's statement pretty weak. I mean, I know people get upset by them. So you're going to have a hearing. Like, what aren't they having a hearing about actually? I mean, look, I found it weak. I sort of viewed it as performative, like he sort of has to do this. But if you're Trump and the speaker of the House in your party is not saying what you would probably want him to say which is, not just that it's outrageous, but people should protest, and this, you know, protect Trump, you're going to be a little bit nervous.

And I think that's -- I think we sometimes look at the smoke and all the people yelling and FOX News and think, oh, you know, obviously, Trump is still popular but everyone is going to take to the streets and even worse some of them will take to arms. And I think if you just sort of look back since January 6th, there's tremendous amount of evidence as well that that was the peak. And that he's just not able essentially to fill a room.

Look at CPAC, what we were reporting on CPAC last weekend. He can't fill a room where people pay to see him. So I -- you know, I mean, I think that McCarthy's statement again was performative.

REID: Well, let's talk about the security concerns. If there is an indictment, if he does go in person for his initial appearance, as someone who's worked at the Department of Homeland Security, what kind of things are you looking at?

KAYYEM: Yes.

REID: Because that courthouse on an average day is a circus with high- profile defendants, as I'm sure you know. There is paparazzi, there's foreign press. It can be quite chaotic. What are they looking at with the idea of a former president possibly showing up there for the arraignment?

KAYYEM: Right. So -- and there's all the different pieces are going to happen in different locations as well. So first, just, you know, follow the threat stream, the intelligence stream. We don't know if other things might happen in other cities as well. So first is the Secret Service which is put in historic position, which is they would have to deliver the body of the president essentially to a new courthouse.

And there's always been speculation about the extent to which in the past that group of presidential detailees had been sort of taken with Trump.

[19:10:08]

That has changed over time and I suspect that there is a lot of focus on who the personnel will be. Over in New York, you're going to have control, geographic control of the courtroom. I do not mean to make this analogy. It's just a helpful one. This courthouse knows how to prepare for defendants. It was preparing for Guantanamo defendants. It has had high-profile terrorism defendants. Trump is not one of them. This is a different kind of case.

It knows how to do this. With the NYPD, they know how to control the area around it and then also those who legitimately have access to it. My biggest concern is of course for the people who are prosecuting this case. They will have increased security details as well. They are more vulnerable because they're human beings doing their job and they have families and things like that. So those are sort of the three areas that the security will be looking at.

REID: And we'll see if there actually is an indictment and if it comes this week.

KAYYEM: Yes. Exactly.

REID: Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much.

Now to the political ramifications of any possible Trump indictment in Manhattan, my colleague Kristen Holmes is here with me.

Hi, Kristen. I want to get your thoughts on comments from Trump attorney Joe Tacopina. He's essentially blaming Trump's Truth Social post about a potential imminent arrest on press reports.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. He said it was from press reports and that the D.A. was leaking. But make no mistake here, of course, as we know, we heard time and time again the D.A. has made no notification formally to them that there is an indictment pending. But it doesn't either way because right now his team is preparing for that that potential indictment, and it's something that they are anticipating.

We know this past week that they were huddled at Mar-a-Lago coming up with various strategies on how to take this on. And part of that was coming up with a plan for various scenarios. One of them being how to get Trump in and out of New York. The other, preparing for the potential of a remote hearing. As we've talked about, as your sources told you, legal advisers are telling him, hey, you should ask for this remote hearing.

But it's unclear whether or not he's going to take them up on that because Trump himself has told some of them he wants to make a statement in front of the courthouse. Now a lot of their plan has also revolved around messaging as it always does with former President Trump. That is what he really cares about. We know that he is considering hiring a TV friendly lawyer to handle all these communications.

They've already built up their staff for people who are just going to focus on messaging. And part of that messaging is that this is to make him politically stronger. What we're starting to hear is Republicans kind of getting on board with that messaging. Speaker Kevin McCarthy, but also former Vice President Mike Pence. He talked about it on the campaign trail. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The idea of indicting a former president of the United States is deeply troubling to me as it is to tens of millions of Americans. And particularly happening in what appears to be a politically charged environment in New York where the attorney general and other elected officials literally campaigned on a pledge to prosecute the former president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now of course we can't say whether or not this is going to politically strengthen Trump. There's obviously questions about what this does for a general election, what this does for a primary. What we can say is that Republicans are rallying around him which is what his advisers had hoped would happen.

REID: We'll see if it stays, especially as he's calling for, quote, "protest, protest, protest."

Thank you so much for all your great reporting today. We appreciate it.

HOLMES: Thank you.

REID: And coming up, the Federal Reserve is meeting this week. Will they keep raising interest rates or hit the pause button over shocks in the banking sector?

And a giant blob of smelly seaweed is threatening Florida's thriving tourism industry.

And later, it looks like he's running again. Scandal-plagued George Santos has -- can you believe it -- files his paperwork to run for Congress again even though some of his fellow Republicans want him gone.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:20]

REID: The Feds' balancing act with interest rates was already complex. But what's happened over the past week and a half has made the task even more complicated. Now it's set to meet on Wednesday to decide whether to raise rates again or hit the pause button amidst this unexpected turmoil in the banking sector.

In just the past 10 days, two midsized lenders have been taken over by federal regulators. Well, a third got a major car infusion from its larger peers over concerns it could be next to fail.

Now Jeanna Smialek, the Federal Reserve and economy reporter at the "New York Times," at, let's start off, how has the Feds' calculus changed in recent days? And what is your sense of what they'll do next?

JEANNA SMIALEK, FEDERAL RESERVE AND ECONOMY REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. The calculation has changed it completely. I would say it's a whole new equation at this point in time. The Fed can't just ignore these big bank problems. A big part of the reason these banks are in trouble is interest rates have been rising and that sort of forced them to take some losses on investments that they had, that they hadn't been expecting.

And so I think the Fed has to think about what its next rate moves might do to the rest of the banking system as it considers what it's going to do forward. At the same time, inflation is still very hot here in the United States. You know, there are still the problem that they were fundamentally fighting coming into 2023 is still very much, you know, an active issue. And so I think what we're going to see from the Fed is some sort of attempt to balance those two issues.

The high inflation on one hand and the risk for financial instability on the other. And most economists I talk to are expecting a quarter point rate. So a small but still meaningful rate move at the meeting on Wednesday.

[19:20:02]

REID: If the Fed does decide to change course and press pause on its interest rate hikes, what would that mean for the fight against inflation?

SMIALEK: Yes. So one economist I was talking to earlier today suggested that it would likely be what she called a pregnant pause. Meaning that you would pause but you would suggest that you're going to raise rates further in the future as soon as conditions are calm enough to allow you to do so. And then I think the idea there is, you just don't want to signal the markets that this fight is over. That you've given up on the inflation side of things because if the Fed does that, there's a real risk that inflation could just become a permanent feature of the American economy and obviously none of us want that to happen.

REID: Well, the "Wall Street Journal" is reporting global investment bank giant UBS is in talks to take over parts or all of Credit Suisse. How significant would that be?

SMIALEK: That would be a really significant move, and that it could actually be pretty stabilizing for at least the European banking system. I think the biggest concern right now is that what we've seen in the American banking system isn't just going to be an isolated case. That you could see some real contagion spreading not just across the United States but also across the world.

And so I think anything that trades off stability in the financial system at this moment would be very welcome. Both at the Federal Reserve and doubtless across, you know, across the ocean at the European Central Bank.

REID: On the banking system at large, do you think we've seen the last of these bank failures? Or is this just the tip? Just the beginning?

SMIALEK: I think that is the several trillion-dollar question at this point in time. I don't think anybody really knows the answer to it. I talked to a lot of analysts, a lot of economists, and what they're telling me is these banks looked kind of unique particularly Silicon Valley Bank, the one that set it all off, looked very unusual.

But the problem with panics is that once they start, you know, once people lose faith in the system and start pulling their money, you can really see them get out of control very quickly. And so I think the question is just, you know, does this a rest at this stage or do people start getting worried and continue to pull their money from banks? And I don't think we know the answer to that yet.

REID: Jeanna, thank you.

SMIALEK: Thank you.

REID: And the tourism industry in Florida, Mexico and the Caribbean is facing a huge threat. A gigantic blob of smelly seaweed floating in the Atlantic is washing up on beaches in the region.

CNN's Leyla Santiago shows us how the Florida shores are already being impacted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE KAPLAN, RESIDENT, KEY WEST, FLORIDA: It's thick and in the summertime, builds up and smells terrible.

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joe Kaplan captured these images about a week ago. Massive amounts of seaweed washing up at Smathers Beach, a beach he knows well because he walks it several times a week.

KAPLAN: And I was shocked when I saw that day where it wasn't even spring yet. It's still winter, which is very unusual.

CHUANMIN HU, USF COLLEGE OF MARINE SCIENCE: And this is about 5,000 miles long.

SANTIAGO: Professor Chuanmin Hu is one of the leading experts on what many have referred to as a massive blob of seaweed heading to Florida's coast.

(On camera): Fair to call it a blob?

HU: No.

(LAUGHTER)

SANTIAGO: No, we can't call it a blob, OK.

HU: I would never call that a blob. OK.

SANTIAGO: OK, why?

HU: Because it's not.

SANTIAGO (voice-over): Satellite images he says show it's not one massive body of seaweed, rather, a bunch of patchy clumps traveling from West Africa. It's called the Atlantic Sargassum Belt and it's considered a natural phenomenon. Right now it's twice the width of the U.S., carrying six million tons of seaweed, and headed to the East Coast.

HU: In June of this year it may turn into 20 million pounds.

SANTIAGO (on camera): So let me get this straight. This -- what we're seeing the last month is six million tons and it's going to get bigger?

HU: Yes. There's no way to stop that. This is nature. It's just like no one can stop a hurricane.

SANTIAGO: Should we be worried about that?

HU: No.

SANTIAGO: Why?

HU: The reason is that sargassum is not toxic.

SANTIAGO (voice-over): But it smells pretty bad and it's a nuisance for those trying to keep beaches clean to attract tourists. Just a few years ago here's what it looked like in Mexico.

Officials in Monroe County, which includes the Florida Keys, have set aside more than $200,000 to clean and remove sargassum from its beaches.

DAN MATTHEWS, MISS CHIEF FISHING CHARTERS: Seaweed is a mixed blessing. We need it. Seaweed is a nursery for all these large pelagic fish. And the negative side to that seaweed is if it comes in the concentrations that I believe we're going to see, our fishing grounds are going to be completely covered with it. There's almost no point to fishing because we're going to be spending the entire day cleaning weed off our lines.

SANTIAGO: And as the Sargassum Belt heads toward Florida, another natural phenomenon is already hitting its beaches on the West Coast, red tide. It can be toxic, kill fish, and cause respiratory issues. This year's red tide concerns were enough to cancel at least one major event here in Indian Rocks where one family visiting told us --

MARGO SAGE, CANADIAN TOURIST: But as soon as my son, my husband, and I got out of our car we all started coughing. SANTIAGO: But for spring breakers like this group from Iowa the

concerns of massive amounts of seaweed or red tide were not enough to change vacation plans.

[19:25:04]

ANNA SANDERS, TOURIST: I would rather it be red tide than raining every day.

SANTIAGO: Tourists noting friends back home --

SAGE: They'd be pretty jealous regardless of having a little bit of the red tide symptoms, they'd be pretty jealous that we're here and they're not.

SANTIAGO: Because the pristine beaches of the Sunshine State are hard to resist for many despite what may be looming offshore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Leyla Santiago, thank you.

And coming up, he's been plagued by self-inflicted scandal since day one. But new Congressman George Santos seems poised to run again. How voters from his district are reacting, next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: He's been plagued by scandal but that's not stopping George Santos from filing papers this week with federal regulators to formally declare his candidacy for 2024.

[19:30:03]

The New York Congressman is facing investigations into his finances and campaign activities after he admitted to lying about much of his background and resume.

So is this really the type of record you can run on again?

CNN's Jason Carroll went to Santos' district to ask his constituents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In a time of bitter partisan politics, when few can seemingly find any common ground, here in New York's Nassau County, it appears Republicans, Democrats, and Independents agree on one point, they've had enough of George Santos.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't trust him. I don't understand why he is still there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has completely humiliated himself, and it is -- it just seems like he's detached from reality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know who he is, and we don't like what we see and it is time for him to go home.

CARROLL (voice over): The fact that Santos is filing for re-election will allow him to continue to raise money, only adding to the disgust by some in his district.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know if it's shock, or disgust. I think it's terrible.

CARROLL (voice over): It's not welcome news to constituents such as Stephen Farrell (ph), who says he predominantly votes Republican.

STEPHEN FARRELL, REPUBLICAN VOTER: I hope he just goes away. I mean, there is just so much turmoil in response to his environment -- the environment he's created.

CARROLL (voice over): On this day, we could not find a resident in the area who supports the embattled Congressman -- not one.

An official here tells us Santos also does not have the backing of Nassau County's Republican Party.

PAM PANZENBECK (R), GLEN COVE, NEW YORK MAYOR: He needs to resign. Resign now. Forget about running for re-election. George, resign now.

CARROLL (voice over): Glen Cove's Mayor has joined a chorus of other Republicans, both locally and nationally who say Santos should not keep his seat after numerous scandals and lies surfaced about his resume and background.

PANZENBECK: If Mr. Santos is doing this and has any intention of running for re-election, he will not have the support of anyone that I know. Everyone in the Republican Party of Nassau County has pretty much demanded that he resign immediately and he has so far not paid attention to anyone.

CARROLL (voice over): Despite widespread calls for his resignation from Santo' his own party, Democrats such as Mindy Isakov (ph) worry enough Republicans could be convinced to support him rather than risk losing a congressional seat.

MINDY ISAKOV, DEMOCRAT: If he does what he says he is going to do, the people who voted for him the first time will let go of their hatred and vote for him again because they hate a lot of other people.

CARROLL (voice over): Jason Carroll, CNN, Long Island, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Prosecutors say a Black man was fatally smothered while in custody. And now seven Sheriff's Deputies have been charged with second-degree murder. More details on this, next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:09]

REID: The family of a soldier who is stationed at Fort Hood is questioning the Army's explanation for her death and calling on the FBI to investigate.

Army Private Ana Fernanda Basaldua Ruiz was found dead on Monday. On Thursday, military investigators announced there was no foul play, but added their investigation is continuing.

Her mother though says she was told by her daughter that she had been sexually harassed. She was also told that her daughter died by suicide.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins us now.

Camila, what more are you learning?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Paula.

We're learning that the family is now asking through their attorney for a full and open investigation into this case. The Army says they are looking at all of the facts surrounding her death, and what they are saying is that this is all being handled by an independent arm of the Army. It is being handled by the Criminal Investigations Division, which is separate from the chain of command at Fort Hood.

And those investigators saying that they do not believe that foul play was a factor in this case. They also say that they're looking into harassment allegations, all of this after the mother gave very emotional interviews to our affiliate, Univision and to Telemundo News, essentially saying that the Army told her this was a suicide, but then she went on to question that suicide, and also went on to say that she talked to her daughter every single day and that there were some allegations of sexual abuse at the base. Again, this is all coming from her mother.

We had a team go to her in Mexico to speak at her home and we asked her, you know, did your daughter want to leave the Army or ever expressed any feelings of wanting to get out? And she said, yes.

Here is the rest of that answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(ALEJANDRA RUIZ ZARO, MOTHER OF PRIVATE ANA BASALDUA RUIZ speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Mom, I to go with you to Mexico. I want you to hug me the way you did when I was little.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: If you didn't read those subtitles. You know, she says that her daughter told her that she wanted to be hugged the way she was hugged when she was a little girl.

And again, they're speaking out through that attorney. I want to read part of the statement that they released saying: "We will be watching closely to ensure that military leadership conducts a thorough investigation for the sake of Ana's family and for all of those currently serving in our US military."

This is a family that is devastated. But on the other hand, the Army says they will do everything to figure out what happened here -- Paula.

REID: Camila Bernal, thank you.

BERNAL: Thank you.

REID: And 10 people have now been charged in the death of Irvo Otieno, a Virginia man who died in custody while at a State mental health facility.

The additional charges followed the state's viewing of the video of his death. The prosecutor telling CNN that the video shows three hospital staffers at one point watching with their hands in their pockets while he was allegedly being smothered to death.

The three guards along with these seven Deputies are all facing murder charges.

Here is CNN's Brian Todd.

[19:40:10]

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New details on what the video shows of the final moments of 28-year-old Irvo Otieno who died in custody on March 6th, when he was brought to a mental health facility in Virginia. The video not yet public, but the county prosecutor in Southern Virginia telling CNN why she has charged seven Henrico County Deputies with second-degree murder, as well as three security guards at the Central State Hospital.

ANN CABELL BASKERVILL, DINWIDDIE COUNTY COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY: He goes to the ground and one by one, there ended up being 10 people on top of him, all of whom are applying pressure.

Visibly, they're putting their back into it, leaning down.

TODD (on camera): Is he resisting? Is he combative at all in those moments?

BASKERVILL: No, not at all. He is not moving. He is frankly lifeless.

TODD (voice over): Another disturbing detail.

BASKERVILL: There are hospital staff that come in and out of the room as if there is nothing taking place. Nothing. No one tries to help.

TODD (voice over): It began with a burglary call. On March 3rd, police showed up at Otieno's house with what a neighbor says was a disproportionate amount of officers.

BRADLEY MCNAMARA, NEIGHBOR OF IRVO OTIENO: He was very agitated, confused, heightened state of, you know, mental sensibility and everything.

TODD (voice over): But his mother calmed him down, this neighbor tells CNN and he never posed a threat to the officers.

MCNAMARA: Irvo wasn't treated like somebody who was going through a mental health crisis. He was treated like a criminal from the beginning.

TODD (voice over): But at the hospital, police say he became "physically assaultive" and he was arrested and jailed. In jail, the prosecutor says video shows he was pepper sprayed while handcuffed and naked alone in his cell.

BASKERVILL: Five or six deputies at the jail, Henrico Jail tackle him. So he is then on the ground, and then he's on the ground underneath them for several minutes there and blows are sustained at the Henrico County Jail.

TODD (voice over): He was then taken to the mental health facility where authorities say he became combative and where he died. A defense attorney for one of the charged Deputies who has not been able to see the video tells CNN --

CALEB KERSHNER, ATTORNEY FOR DEPUTY RANDY BOYER: My client would describe him as violently noncompliant. Being regularly violent. He had no idea or had reason to believe in any way based upon his vantage and what he was doing that this man was in any danger of his life.

TODD (on camera): Another attorney representing Deputy Bradley Disse tells CNN there has been a rush to judgment in this case, and his client looks forward to being vindicated.

We've reached out to the Henrico Sheriff's Department, to the Henrico Police and to the Central State Hospital for a response to the very latest allegations, we have not heard back.

Brian Todd, CNN, Henrico County, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: And coming up, inside the world of pets and what they can teach us about life and death. You don't want to miss this conversation.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:20]

REID: Actor, Lance Reddick best known for his work on "The Wire" and in the "John Wick" franchise has died. He passed away suddenly Friday morning, according to his publicist, apparently from natural causes. The Yale graduate stars in the fourth "John Wick" film which hits

theaters next weekend. He also appeared in "American Horror Story" and the TV show, "Bosch." Lance Reddick was 60 years old.

Now, it's not easy to get an accurate head count on a very important US population, pets. But the American Veterinary Medical Association figures that more than 38 percent of US homes have at least one dog. Now, more than a quarter of homes have at least one cat.

Now, we can't get into the numbers of birds, fish, lizard, or ferrets, but clearly a lot of US homes depend on the kind of unconditional love that pets bring into our lives.

But with that joy comes a lot of responsibility, and a very important person, your vet.

So joining us now with more is veterinarian, Karen Fine. She just released a new book called "The Other Family Doctor: A Veterinarian Explores What Animals Can Teach Us About Love Life, and Mortality."

Welcome, Dr. Fine. You are a holistic veterinarian. Tell me what that means.

DR. KAREN FINE, VETERINARIAN AND AUTHOR "THE OTHER FAMILY DOCTOR": So I treat animals, we call it Integrative Medicine, I treat animals with Western Medicine, but I also use traditional Chinese Medicine when warranted and when the owner wants to use that.

REID: And you've written that people often ask, well, your patients can't talk, so how do you know what's wrong when a pet comes in?

FINE: That's a great question. And that's one that I get a lot and we pay -- veterinarians, we pay a lot of attention to the animal themselves, but we also have to ask a lot of questions of their caretakers.

REID: Do you believe that our fur babies possess skills and senses that we don't and animals can teach us so much about love and grief? What other kinds of things do you think pets can teach us?

FINE: I think they can teach us about accepting our mortality. So what I see from animals and I've been present at so many of my patients' deaths, and what I've seen with animals is I don't feel that they're afraid of death before it happens. They're not worrying about it.

But when they are actually in the process of dying, I see that they are accepting it, and a lot of times people's find that their animals are peaceful and that they feel ready and I feel that they're listening to their body so as their body is breaking down, they are receiving that information and they are accepting it.

[19:50:11]

FINE: Sort of like when an animal is pregnant and say a dog is about to have puppies, they know -- it is telling them this is what you need to do when you get these certain signals, this is how to prepare. They listen to their bodies and their bodies tell them what to do.

Also, like when a baby animal is born like a little kitten, how do they know you know what to do? They listen to their instincts.

REID: That's fascinating. And you don't just care for pets, but also their people, especially when there is a health crisis with a pet. What kind of emotional toll does that take on vets or dealing with, again, animals and their owners?

FINE: Yes. I think a lot of people have these really profound bonds with their animals. And I've heard a lot of people say that they were more upset when their animal died than they were when a human family member died. And that's, that's really not uncommon.

And when you live with your animals, they're part of your daily routine. So it's really not that surprising, and we're so close to them in so many ways. So people, I think really get very distressed and it's what's called a disenfranchised grief in our culture. It's not talked about very often. It is not very well supported by our society.

It's hard to really say I need to take a day off of work because I'm grieving my animal, you know. Some people understand and some people laugh, so it's a different -- difficult situation. I think not everybody really talks about the depth of their feelings.

REID: And based on your book, you know, despite the expense, the care the chewed shoes, the hairballs, life is just better with pets, right?

FINE: It is better with pets. I always want to have pets in my life. I think it's such a wonderful thing to watch creatures of another species and interact with them and love them and be loved by them.

REID: Dr. Karen Fine, thank you.

FINE: Thank you so much for having me.

REID: And up next, this adorable four-year-old is going viral for her unique smile.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now do it with your teeth. No. No. Don't scrunch your nose. Don't do that, like this. Unscrunch your nose and actually smile like upwards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:50]

REID: California's Governor announced today the State will cut the cost of insulin by 90 percent. It will do so by manufacturing its own low cost version of insulin in partnership with a generic nonprofit drug maker. According to the Governor's Office, a 10 milliliter vial of insulin will be available for no more than $30.00 pending FDA approval.

Though insulin costs little to make, brand name insulin is often sold for roughly $300.00 per vial, forcing many people to skip life-saving doses.

And a North Carolina toddler who grimaces when she tries to smile will not only make you smile, she is winning over the internet.

Here is CNN's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Meet four-year-old Ruby, but don't ask her to smile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your smile is beautiful. Smile. Oh, so beautiful.

MOOS (voice over): Ruby Spickler's sister and her sister's boyfriend tried to give Ruby a how to smile tutorial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not do it with your teeth. No, no. Keep -- don't scrunch your nose. Don't do that. Like this. Unscrunch your nose and actually smile like upwards.

MOOS (voice over): The video went viral causing millions of people to smile, but not Ruby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like your happy.

MOOS (voice over): Ruby's sister says she first noticed what she calls the snarly smile when they took some family pictures.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She made this horrible like double chin snarly smiley face, it just did not look like she was happy whatsoever.

MOOS (voice over): It is something parents everywhere find adorable. "Every kid goes through the Chandler Bing smile." Chandler Bing from friends trying to smile for engagement photos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, Chandler you want to give us a smile?

CHANDLER BING, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: Okay.

MOOS (voice over): Ruby's friends and family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

MOOS (voice over): Have tried having her say cheese. They've put her in front of a mirror. Only one thing has worked.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We tickle her sometimes to get a good smile out of her.

MOOS (voice over): She may have a hard time smiling on command, but she has perfected the eye roll and wait till you see her angry scowl.

RUBY SPICKLER, FOUR YEARS OLD: Because you won't listen to my grandma.

MOOS (voice over): Ruby can sometimes look like a grimace emoji come to life.

MOOS (on camera): The reincarnation of Grumpy Cat, I saw her called.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that's pretty close. That hits the nail on the head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at that piercing scowl.

MOOS (voice over): Grumpy Cat became a meme. "I had fun once, it was awful." At least no one ever has to tell Ruby, wipe that smile off your face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn that frown upside down.

MOOS (voice over): Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Well, this just in. Check your March Madness brackets or don't if you had Kansas headed to the Final Four. The number eight seed, Arkansas just beat the number one seed in the west, the defending champs. The final score, 72 to 71.

And you can catch the March Madness Men's Tournament action on our sister network, TBS, TNT, and TruTV, as well as on CBS.

And stay with CNN for coverage of the possible indictment of former President Trump starting with "CNN This Morning" tomorrow at six.

And join me in the afternoon, tomorrow, at 4:00 PM Eastern. I'll speak live with one former President Trump's attorneys, Alina Habba all about the former President's legal troubles.

Thank you for joining me this evening, I'm Paula Reid.

[20:00:39]