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Final Witness to Testify Today Ahead of Possible Trump Indictment; UBS Buys Credit Suisse in Emergency Deal to Halt Banking Crisis; Chinese President Xi Meets with Putin in Moscow. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired March 20, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour, I'm John Berman.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

This morning, preparations underway here in New York City as the grand jury -- as we wait to see if there could be an indictment soon against former President Donald Trump. Today, of course, is expected to be a pivotal day in court. Robert Costello, once a legal adviser to ex- Trump Attorney Michael Cohen, expected to testify before that grand jury. Costello telling CNN, he's already handed over a large number of documents to back up his story.

BERMAN: We're also watching the stock markets very carefully after some serious banking fury. Right now, you can see the Dow is way up, but shares of Credit Suisse are down about 50 percent on the New York Stock Exchange right now. Down 50 percent after Switzerland's biggest bank scooped up Credit Suisse in an emergency rescue deal.

And happening now, the Chinese President Xi Jinping is meeting with the Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Moscow. China trying to send a strong message of support despite Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We're going to begin this hour, though, with the latest on the Trump hush money investigation. CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is here with the very latest. And there's a lot going on --

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BERMAN: -- today with Robert Costello testifying, and we've got some details surrounding this testimony, Paula.

REID: What is so interesting about this is that even though prosecutors are the ones in charge of the grand jury, they're running the show there. This is a witness that was requested by the Trump team. They have asked Robert Costello, he's an attorney, well-known figure in Trump world, he has represented other Trump allies like Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon. And once upon a time, he also represented Michael Cohen. So the Trump team wants Costello to go before the grand jury and testify to undermine Michael Cohen's credibility. And that is significant because Cohen is really essential witness here in this investigation.

Now also making things interesting, Cohen and his attorney will also be at the court around the same time. We know Cohen does not like it when people question his credibility. So this is of somewhat of a provocative move by the Trump legal team but it is their right. And the grand jury will have the option about whether they want to hear from this witness. We expect they will.

HILL: So what does this mean in terms of timing and why all of this is happening now because they have had invited Donald Trump --

REID: Yes.

HILL: -- we remember to testify? Is this just him sending Costello in his place?

REID: Not necessarily. I mean, he declined that invitation, that is his right if a defendant is likely to be indicted. That invitation is extended. His lawyers probably wisely decided not to put him in front of the grand jury.

But this is a request that they made. One that the prosecutors did not have to grant. But I'm told, if they had not granted this request in terms of optics, it would not have looked good, it probably would have become a thing.

Now true question of timing. We know over the weekend, the former president put on through social that he's going to be arrested Tuesday. Now his own team came out and contradicted that. They said, look, we have no evidence to suggest that is the case.

Our own reporting also suggests there is no guarantee that anything is going to happen tomorrow or at all. Though it certainly does appear that this investigation is moving into its final stages.

And I will say, we don't know the strength of the case. We don't know all the evidence. There could be a reason that all of this is happening now because right now it's not clear why after five years, this is suddenly heating up. But what we do know is this is certainly not the most consequential case that he faces, and we will see if he is indicted.

BERMAN: We don't know of any other witnesses testifying besides the one today, correct?

REID: Exactly. And we knew that this person was coming. We reported that. And we were pretty surprised to find out that this was actually a defense witness.

Now, of course, we are working our sources to find out if there are any more witnesses. We're going to know, John.

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BERMAN: (Inaudible)

REID: I don't know anybody, but I'm --

HILL: If anybody is going to find out, I know you will.

REID: We are turning over the -- our whole team, we're turning over every rock, calling every source, but at this point, there are no other witnesses, pretty short list of who it could even be. So in terms of timing, there could be developments soon, but it's an open question as to whether he will be indicted.

BERMAN: All right. We've kept you here long enough, so go do that reporting. Find out what you can because there is a lot going on right now. Where it goes, we will see. Paula Reid, terrific to have you. Thank you so much.

HILL: Thanks, Paula.

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now is former White House ethics lawyer, Richard Painter, and CNN law enforcement analyst and former Secret Service agent, Jonathan Wackrow.

Richard, I just want to start with you, counselor here, because Paula was talking about this. What we are seeing -- or not seeing but know about that the grand jury today feels unusual, because a grand jury investigation by definition is run by the prosecutors. The defense lawyers are not even in the room. So how will the questioning of Robert Costello even go today?

RICHARD PAINTER, PROFESSOR OF CORPORATE LAW, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well, we don't know what is going to happen and what he is going to say to the grand jury. This investigation has been going on for years.

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I submitted a -- amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court to allow the subpoenas to go forward for the Manhattan District Attorney office and we don't know what is going to happen with the grand jury. But we should keep in mind that Michael Cohen was charged and convicted, and was guilty in connection with the payoffs of Stormy Daniels on behalf of individual number one. Well, that means it is highly unusual for individual number one not also to be indicted, so I'd expect that to -- to happen sometime soon. How it will playout? I'm not sure.

HILL: Stick with me for one more, Richard. As we look at all of this and everybody is trying to read the tea leaves here, right, trying to figure out what is going to happen. Part of that is because of what the former president put out over the weekend, saying that this was going to happen, as Paula said, his own attorneys refuting that. But the fact that this narrative is now out there, what does that do? How does that weigh on prosecutors at this point? How does that inform any decisions if at all knowing what could be coming in terms of a reaction?

PAINTER: Donald Trump is going to try to play this to rev up his base, and cause unrest, but the prosecutors should continue to do their job. That is what prosecutors are there for. The problem is that the much more serious charges are in the hands of the Department of Justice. The charges for sedition and insurrection in connection with the events after the 2020 election.

And unfortunately, we have a situation where the district attorneys, Fulton, New York and in Fulton County, Georgia, are far ahead of the Department of Justice or at least the period be far ahead of the Department of Justice in their investigations and impaneling grand juries and moving toward indictments without DOJ having taken action of the most serious charges.

The seditious and insurrection charges would disqualify Donald Trump from public office under the 14th Amendment Section 3. Those really should be the first charges to be brought. They should have been brought a long time ago. It's been over two years since the insurrection of January 6th.

And unfortunately, without air support from the Department of Justice, the district attorneys are going to be subjected to very vicious attacks from Donald Trump and his supporters which I believe could feed into more civil unrest. It is a very, very precarious situation right now.

BERMAN: Jonathan, I want to bring you into this discussion, because talk about unprecedented here. The possibility, and again, we don't know if it is going to happen, but the possibility of a former president being arrested brings us all kinds of security concerns and processes, and we just haven't received before. Yes, you know, Trump called for protest over the weekend. There is that, and I'm sure there are security concerns there.

What should we be looking for, and how will this even work, which different agencies from the state, from the city, from the federal government might be involved with this?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: John, great question. And listen, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we don't have line of sighting of exactly what the -- the prosecutors are doing right now. But we do have a line of sight of what law enforcement is doing. And what they're doing is, you know, with the backdrop of actions from January 6th, they are being hyper coordinated around their efforts and those efforts are across multiple law enforcement entities both at the state, local and federal level.

But what's really interesting, John, is that the roles and responsibilities around all of the different law enforcement entities that are involved are -- are different. They have a different remit on how they are addressing this issue.

Let me just quickly walk you through what we're -- what we're looking at. The NYPD, right, they are in charge of maintaining civil order, so what they are going to do is they're going to be focused on the area around the courthouse, but also New York City at large, right. There are multiple areas where protests could, you know, could spark at a moment's notice. And remember, NYPD has a dual role here. Protests are individuals -- protesters are individuals who are exercising their First Amendment rights, and they need to be protected in the execution of those rights. But NYPD is also keenly aware of, you know, any type of violent activity that may, you know, stem from these protests, so they have a dual remit there on maintaining that civil order and protecting protesters.

New York State Court Officers, they are the ones that are going to be protecting the courthouse, the physical building itself, again, from any type of activity.

The FBI, they're involved. Why? Because they are monitoring for any types of violations of federal law by any of these, you know, protesters. They're looking for acts of potential domestic violence by extremists, so they're involved.

Now you have the Secret Service. The Secret Service play an interesting role. Usually, we see the Secret Service as a coordinating entity. They are the ones that usually come up with these security plans for rallies and speeches and any type of political events surrounding, you know, either sitting or former president. But in this case, they're not.

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They are in a protective mode. They are viewing this as really an administrative movement where they have to protect Donald Trump from point A to point B, let him do his business before the court, and leave. They are not playing that active role that we typically see them in. They are not providing the magnetometers at the -- at the courthouse. They are not providing the perimeter security that we typically see.

Now, are they -- are they working with law enforcement partners? The answer is yes. They are going to be informed but they are not the controlling entity, which is something rare that we typically don't see the Secret Service engaged with.

HILL: Jonathan, really quickly. How much, if at all, have the events of January 6th, what we saw unfold there, influenced the preparations that are likely underway at this point?

WACKROW: Listen, they are heavily weighted, right. And I think that you have seen from January 6th, across a whole variety of different types of events both in New York, Washington, D.C., but across the nation. Law enforcement is -- is heavily reliant upon information sharing, intelligence, and preparedness. They have to be.

They have to plan for every type of eventuality, you know, especially in a city like New York where, you know, there are multiple locations, where incidents could occur, sparked by, you know, and fueled by, you know, social media posts from a whole variety of -- of entities. So law enforcement has to be prepared. They have to be coordinated. They have to have those contingency plans in place. Hopefully, they never have to use it. Hopefully, you know, the calls for peaceful protests are adhered to, and all of that preparation is -- is really going to be unnecessary. But should it be necessary? The NYPD, federal law enforcement entities, they are prepared to -- to react.

HILL: Jonathan Wackrow, Richard Painter, really appreciate both joining us this morning. Thank you.

PAINTER: Thank you.

BERMAN: So the world, at this moment, watching a high stakes meeting between Chinese President Xi Jinping and the Russian leader Vladimir Putin. This is happening in Moscow. You're looking at pictures from just moments ago. Why the West is deeply skeptical of how China is framing this visit.

HILL: Plus, Switzerland based bank, UBS, buys its rival Credit Suisse to calm financial nerves. Is that deal enough? We'll keep a close eye on the markets. We're going to bring you the very latest there.

And schools -- those working for the nation's second largest school district now set to go on strike. Why? Stick around.

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BERMAN: All right. At this moment, a high stakes summit is underway in Moscow between the Chinese President Xi Jinping and the Russian leader Vladimir Putin. You can see these pictures from just a short time ago. Beijing is framing this meeting as a peacemaking mission, obviously, with the war in Ukraine. And moments ago, we heard from Vladimir Putin on that topic.

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VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We studied closely your proposals on the settlement of the acute crisis in Ukraine. Of course, we will have an opportunity to discuss this issue. We know that you are based on the principles of justice and commitment to the fundamental points of international law.

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BERMAN: Again, that was just moments ago. White House officials tell CNN that the U.S. would reject any calls for a ceasefire that comes out of these talks. Part of the Chinese plan is basically for a ceasefire with troops staying where they are. The U.S. says it will just be chance for Russia to regroup. The administration also reiterated it would not be, quote, "in China's best interest," to provide arms to Russia.

Here with me now is Susan Shirk, the former deputy assistant secretary of state. She is also the author of " Overreach: How China Derailed Its Peaceful Rise." This summit going on at this very moment, it's easy to see what Russia wants out of this, right. Russia wants as much Chinese support as it can get. But what does China want this morning?

SUSAN SHIRK, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I think I know what Xi Jinping wants but it doesn't necessarily mean it's what China wants. Xi Jinping sees Vladimir Putin as its brother. They have a very close personal relationship. And Xi was very much void by his well in bringing Iran and Saudi Arabia together in the Middle East. And he would like to bolster his own domestic support and his international legitimacy by somehow demonstrating that he is really an international statesman and peacemaker. And if he can get Putin to make any positive proposals at all, he will claim that this is his great achievement.

But of course, even more important is the phone call that he reportedly plans to have with President Zelenskyy, and unless President Zelenskyy shows any positive response to what Xi Jinping has to say afterwards, then this whole thing will be a big act that is designed to bolster the legitimacy of Xi Jinping.

BERMAN: Again, we will wait and see if that phone call between Xi and Zelenskyy actually happens. The meeting between Xi and Putin is happening. And now as you said, China has -- has made a -- a peace proposal, but the U.S. thinks that that proposal is very much in Russia's interest as things stand.

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Do you think or where do you think that Putin would be a constraining factor -- not Putin, but Xi would be a constraining factor on Putin at all? Do you think he has any desire to hold Putin back?

SHIRK: Well, yes, I do. I think that he would like to see the war end in a way that reduces the pressure that Xi Jinping is now under to appear to be neutral but in reality, at least morally and politically, support Putin.

Let's go back to the beginning. Putin really tricked Xi Jinping with this statement of friendship without limit on the eve of his brutal invasion of Ukraine. And yet, even with that trap, Xi Jinping continues to express moral support for Russia and for Putin.

And of course, if the two of them appear to be standing together on the side of peace, what they will want to do is to pit the United States and the West as kind of the warmongers, the cold warriors, if you will. And this will put a lot of pressure on Europe in particular.

Europe has firmly stood behind Ukraine up until now, but it's been, and of course, the winter has not been as cold, so it hasn't -- the pressure hasn't been quite as acute. But with time, it becomes more and more difficult for the Europeans to stand completely with Ukraine.

And if Russia and China appear to be the peacemakers and they have some credible way of doing that, that will put a lot of pressure on the pro Ukrainian side in the war. BERMAN: Susan Shirk, great to have your perspective this morning. Thank you so much.

SHIRK: Certainly.

HILL: Well, we want to look at the latest in this war in Ukraine. More missile strikes hitting Eastern Ukraine overnight. Military officials say Russian forces are trying to cutoff another town in the Donetsk region and are also warning the situation may turn into a second Bakhmut.

BERMAN: This came after Vladimir Putin made this surprise visit over the weekend to the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol. The Kremlin released this footage of Putin driving around the city in the middle of the night as well as video of him looking at plans to rebuild the city, a city that Putin and the Russians destroyed in the first place.

So with us now is retired Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. General, great to see you this morning. Look, Russia, Putin wanted those pictures out and frankly, probably one of those pictures out before his meeting with Xi Jinping. What do you think he -- he thinks he gets from that?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL-MILITARY AFFAIRS: Well, I think what he gets is in his own mind and possibly in the news as well, an affirmation that these are Russian territory. That Mariupol which was fought over for weeks was a, quote, "great victory" for Russia. And he is just basically putting his foot down and saying, this is Russian territory, Mariupol is Russian.

HILL: So as he puts foot down there, you have everything else swirling around. You have not only the meeting today, but you have these charges from the ICC that also came ahead of this visit. How much does any of that play into the calculus?

KIMMITT: Well, I don't think the ICC indictment means anything to him at all. He'll just say, well, if they're going to go after me, they will go after Zelenskyy as well. But as Russia doesn't even acknowledge membership inside the ICC, I don't think he's slightest bit concerned about it.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: So, General, we are watching this meeting between the Chinese leader and Vladimir Putin. What language are you watching most closely to gauge the level of Chinese support?

KIMMITT: Well, I think if there is any kind of agreement or language from Xi Jinping that would suggest that we need to support Russia with more than rhetoric, and actually give them supplies whether they are lethal or nonlethal, that is a clear affirmation on the part of the Chinese that they have picked sides.

HILL: Which we -- we already saw a little bit of, right. I mean I think just the language what we heard from -- with the foreign minister on Friday who is talking ahead of this visit about what was going to happen. The very language that was chosen, I think showed very clearly what we may be able to expect.

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KIMMITT: I think that's right, but I still don't believe at this point China will give large amounts of lethal equipment. Certainly not the kind of equipment that the Russians so desperately need.

If he gives artillery ammunition, it will be small numbers. If he gives -- I mean, at this point, we've seen about a thousand -- 10,000 rifles coming across, that is not going to tip the balance. Candidly about the only thing that would happen that would help Russia right now would be 300,000 Chinese troops doing the same thing they did in North Korea in 1950, and we know they are not coming.

HILL: We will be watching for any developments. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, always appreciate your insight. Great to have you here this morning. Thanks.

Flight attendants are renewing their call to ban infants, babies from sitting on their parents' lap when they fly. Right now, kids under the age of two can do that. The latest reason behind this move. That's next.

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