Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

NYPD and Capitol Police Ramp Up Security Ahead of Possible Trump Arrest; House GOP Seeks Testimony from Manhattan D.A. Probing Trump; Russia's Putin, China's Xi Hold Second Day of Talks in Moscow; . Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Thanks for joining us in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to see you. I'm John Berman.

This morning, all NYPD officers are standing by, ready for possible deployment as police across New York and Washington, D.C., are prepared for the possibility of protests after that rallying cry from former President Trump. He made that cry after talking about the fact that a New York grand jury could be on the cusp of handing down a criminal indictment against the former president. Ahead, we will talk about the potential charges and legal implications.

HILL: Plus, a critical summit is under way at the Kremlin, one that could have major implications for Russia's war in Ukraine, Chinese President Xi Jinping meeting this morning with Russian President Vladimir Putin. We have details from their conversation.

We're also keeping a really close watch on Wall Street. Take a look at the Dow up just about 1 percent. Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, of course, is set to make to a decision on another possible interest rate hike tomorrow. So, how are the markets responding in advance? We will keep you posted.

BERMAN: Let's begin this hour though with the latest on former President Trump's possible indictment. It is possible he could be indicted as soon as this week.

CNN's Kara Scannell is outside the court New York City, where some of these developments could take place. Kara, what do we know about the possible timing here?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I mean, as we saw yesterday, the grand jury was still hearing from witnesses. They heard from Bob Costello, who was Michael Cohen's former attorney. Then Michael Cohen was on standby and could have been called as a rebuttal witness. He wasn't as at least as of yesterday.

So, one thing that can play out from here is the grand jury could ask to hear from additional witnesses. They are still a working body. They can request people, they can request more information. So, their work is still continuing. We're also waiting for a decision by the D.A.'s office of whether they will move forward with an indictment or not. So, there are still a lot of things in the air and a lot of things that could happen.

Now, if they do choose to move forward, the next thing that will happen is that they will ask the grand jury to present the indict, they'll ask them to vote on it, and then there will be some kind of -- there will be some decision that an indictment will be made public, Trump's team will be notified.

But as of now, we are still waiting to see how this is going to play out and if the grand jury does look to hear from any other witnesses or seek any other testimony or if prosecutors decide to add another witness or two into the mix.

At this point, though, it seems like most of the people who touched this hush money payment, and we've seen people from the campaign, within the Trump Organization, and obviously Michael Cohen himself going before the grand jury, a lot of these people have already met with prosecutors or testified before the grand jury.

So, there is not a lot of others out there who you can think of that they would need to hear from. So, it does feel like a decision on this issue is imminent, certainly a historic decision, still one that is not made lightly. John, Erica?

HILL: Kara Scannell, I appreciate it, thank you.

Also with us is Sandy Batista, he's a former Manhattan D.A. deputy chief investigator and a managing editor of Guidepost Solutions. Good to have you with us this morning.

As we look at all of these, and I am not asking you the weigh in on a charge or anything of that, but what Kara just laid out from us and what we're hearing from people, based on the public science that we see, the activity that we know about in terms of the grand jury, do you believe this does point to a pending indictment of some sort?

SANDY BATISTA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, GUIDEPOST SOLUTIONS LLC: It certainly does. I'm not sure how many witnesses they plan to still bring but it seems to be kind of coming to a close here. They only need a majority of the grand jury to vote on a true bill at which case they will have that indictment and notify the former president and his counsel to hopefully render a surrender, which is what everyone is hoping for should they have to go down this route of processing the president at the D.A.s on that indictment.

BERMAN: What do you think is happening behind the scenes?

BATISTA: It is hard to tell. I mean, these prosecutors are very seasoned. They're certainly taking their time with this indictment, if they choose to do that. I think there is a lot of coordination with the president's counsel. He has a very knowledgeable, very dogged attorneys obviously trying to stave this off. And should they bring an indictment, I think there is some negotiation that's going to happen to determine when the president gets brought down to Lower Manhattan for processing, which, as you have covered over the last couple of days, will be a very complicated process to orchestrate.

HILL: Although, one would imagine this is not -- I mean, this is New York City, this is Lower Manhattan. They have dealt with the high- profile individuals, certainly not a former president, but there are certainly some sort of history there that they can call on in terms of what they need for security, how they want to process this, how much or how little they want to put out there, if there are concerns about public safety.

[10:05:12]

BATISTA: Absolutely. But nothing of this magnitude that a president and his detail brings such a challenge for law enforcement and obviously the call to protest complicates things for law enforcement. But it can be done peacefully and the NYPD is very apt as well as federal partners to deal with any problems. The issues are kind of the clunky state process of processing someone of this magnitude through a building which has hundreds of thousands of cases on a daily basis, shutting that down and making this movement happen will be complicating for something that clearly that they will be up for and ready for.

BERMAN: How much detail -- we have learned that if there is an indictment that will be under seal until the initial court appearance, which could be days later, so we may not know what's in the indictment right away, but how much detail are you expecting to see in the indictment?

BATISTA: Well, the indictment won't be unsealed. The indictment will be very vague. It will be the charges, the most detail will be given at arraignment. So, the indictment will be issued and the D.A. has an option to contact the defendant, in this case, the former president, and have him present himself, or issue a warrant for his arrest. They will obviously choose the former in the hopes that he surrenders himself, and that won't trigger any other action by law enforcement.

And at a time of the arraignment, he will go through fingerprinting, photographing, he will see an EMT, he will go through the regular process that any one goes through from the rest of Manhattan. It's a state system.

Following that arraignment, similar to Mr. Weisselberg's processing, you will hear the D.A. lay out more details of their case in order to get -- or to the judge what they are trying to prove here.

HILL: As you know quite well, this has certainly dominated the headlines over the last few day, and we have House Republicans now saying they want to speak to D.A., they want access to some of the materials from this investigation. As a former deputy chief investigator here, it is concerning to you that lawmakers may want to intervene in an ongoing investigation? Does that raise a red flag for you? BATISTA: I don't know the politics of it. It just know that the -- if the grand jury votes on a true bill, they feel there's enough true evidence, all they need is reasonable cause that a crime occurred. And if the politicians in Washington want to take a look at it, that is their prerogative. Every branch has their right to vet and look at processes that -- it is unusual, obviously, but all of this is very unusual, which is why we are all discussing this, that there's nothing like this before in U.S. history.

So, it's interesting to see how this plays out in both Washington and New York. But, obviously, it is leaning towards some sort of indictment on behalf of the D.A.'s office, which will bring all sorts of legal issues for the former president and as well as the office, that there could be some other attempts to circumvent this by other legal means.

BERMAN: Sandy Batista, great to have you on this morning, thank you.

BATISTA: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: House Republicans are gathering in Florida this morning for their annual retreat as three key members are now jumping to the former president's defense before he is indicted, if he even is. As we mentioned, House Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan and two other committee heads sent a letter calling for testimony from the Manhattan D.A. investigating Donald Trump.

HILL: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joining us now live from Orlando this morning. So, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy just concluding some remarks and you just spoke with him. What did he tell you?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is defending the investigation into the prosecutor, looking into the alleged hush money payments to silence Stormy Daniels and this alleged extramarital affair that former President Donald Trump had with her, but he is also defending the investigation and he's downplaying those payments.

I asked him directly about whether or not he has any concerns about these charges that may come up against the former president. And he indicated that he doesn't and that he called it personal money that the former president gave to Stormy Daniels. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): This was personal money, not trying to hide. This was seven years ago, statute of limitation. And I think in your heart of hearts, you know too that you think this is just political.

But I do get concerned when I look out there and I see justice not being equal to others.

With a local D.A. playing in presidential politics, that starts right there, don't you think it will happen across the country? (END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, he called it the statute of limitations. Important to point out that potentially this does not going to apply in this case, given that New York law extends that for certain people living outside of the state, and also the pandemic extended the statute of limitations.

[10:10:04]

So, we will see what the prosecutor ultimately comes up here if Donald Trump is indeed charged.

He also said that the House Republicans are within their rights to, quote, ask questions about this, and even as they are taking this rather extraordinary step of intervening in this middle of this ongoing criminal investigation without knowing the full scope of the evidence and charges against them. That is even what some of top Republicans told me yesterday, Jim Jordan one of them, saying that he is still moving ahead, he does not believe what Donald Trump did anything wrong, even though he does not know what, if any, charges can come down the pike other than what he has read in press reports.

Democrats, however, are pushing back, just calling this an effort to meddle and obstruct this investigation. McCarthy said he has not spoken with Donald Trump in the last three weeks, including about this investigation, but one of his top deputies, Elise Stefanik, did say yesterday she did speak with Donald Trump yesterday and informed them about the steps Republicans in the House are taking to defend them amid this investigation. Guys?

HILL: Manu Raju with the latest from Orlando, Manu, I appreciate it, thank you.

Joining us now, Democratic Strategist, CNN Political Commentator Paul Begala. So, Paul, as we look at all of this here, Democrats really do seem to be in wait and see mode. We are not hearing a lot at this moment. What are the conversations though that are happening behind the scenes. Do you anticipate there will be some sort of a coordinated response or even message among Democrats?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, if there was, it would be a first to me, Erica. My party is not exactly good at getting organized. Look, a lot of the Democrats say that compared to all of Trump's legal woes, this is the least of them, and they are probably right. Like he is looking at potential, potential charges, investigations into his conduct allegedly inciting the January 6th riot, allegedly mishandling classified information, including some about nuclear secrets, allegedly obstructing justice in the Mueller investigation, allegedly trying to overturn the election in Georgia. Those seem to me, and to most Democrats, much more serious.

And yet, I think McCarthy, as he usually does, really gave away the game when he said, we want equal justice under law, that quote he gave Manu. Well, how do you square the fact that on the same operative set of facts, the Trump Justice Department prosecuted Michael Cohen for the same scheme? They sent him to prison for the same scheme. And, in fact, I looked up the charging document, the Trump-appointed prosecutor said this, Cohen acted in coordination with and at the direction of Mr. Trump.

So, how do you -- these two were involved in the same act, one goes to prison and one can't even be indicted? It seems to me that there is equal justice, we have that equal justice.

BERMAN: It is worth noting that we were talking about now would be state crimes, not the federal crimes. It is also worth noting that Attorney General Merrick Garland, Garland's Justice Department, for whatever reason, decided not to prosecute those crimes once Donald Trump left office as well.

Paul, you have done some presidential campaigns in your day. As a purely political matter, possible candidate Ron DeSantis had an interesting comment to this. Yes, he criticized the Manhattan district attorney for what he called prosecutorial overreach, but during those comments, he at least twice, and maybe more, referred to hush money payments to porn stars, making sure to point out that such a thing happened there, how do you assess DeSantis' response? Do you think it was effective?

BEGALA: No. I don't think anybody who voted for Donald Trump was shocked. Now, Trump denies the alleged affairs. So, maybe it didn't happen. Maybe this one is making it up. I tend to believe her, to tell you the truth, and I suspect Governor DeSantis tends to believe her. But I think that's baked in with Trump.

I think the bigger problem is this allegation of a criminal payoff, and it was weeks, days before the election that this payoff occurred. And, again, Michael Cohen went to prison with it for the same act. And, to me, I think the point that DeSantis and everybody ought to make is just let's treat people equally.

Michael Cohen is a felon. He is a criminal. He went to prison for the same conduct that Donald Trump is potentially going to be indicted for. It seems to me that is equal justice. It doesn't matter if you are just a guy like Michael Cohen in New York City or if you're the former president.

HILL: Paul, with us, I also want to bring in CNN Political Commentator Mia Love, of course, former Republican congresswoman. Nice to see you this morning.

When we look at how all of this is playing out, we did have this very forceful, immediate reaction from Speaker Kevin McCarthy from other House Republicans. Don Bacon, though, one of the few House Republicans who had a more measured response, he said, and I'm quoting here, I'm going to wait until I hear more facts and read the indictment itself. And then he went on to cite the need for trust that voters need to trust the party. How important is trust these days?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have always said, absolute certainty.

[10:15:02] Whenever somebody gets ahead of anything before they get information is the enemy of truth. You have to let things kind of ride out.

This, you know, I -- look, I understand and I believe that no one is above the law, and I understand the desire to -- and the principle here. But to a lot of the Republicans, to a lot of people who are not supporters of Donald Trump, it does seem as if this was an aggressive pursuit of the former president. It was thrown out by the FEC and they stopped investigating it, the feds would not touch it. And so it just seems really odd that a Manhattan D.A. would be the one to continue to pursue this.

So, I understand, I really would appreciate it if my colleagues would take a step back and wait and let this breathe a little bit, maybe they might have a bit better understanding what new evidence was found.

BERMAN: Congresswoman, do you think that there is anything that could be in this indictment when the information does come out once everyone waits and takes your advice? Is there anything that could possibly sway these members of Congress who are already jumping to the president's defense before they even read what is in there?

LOVE: Well, I mean, perhaps, but it would have to be pretty egregious. They would have had to have found something that's pretty egregious that makes people understand that they had to bring this up, and they had to indict a former president.

It does have major implications. There is an election that's coming up. There are things that are going to happen. So, they really have to have an airtight case.

BERMAN: Former Congresswoman Mia Love and Paul Begala, thank you both for being with us this morning.

Much more on this tonight on CNN Primetime, Pamela Brown takes a closer look at all of the former President Trump's legal woes, just one hour, interestingly enough, from the election interference to mishandling classified documents, to the hush money payments. What happens next Inside the Trump Investigations, it airs tonight live at 9:00.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and the Russian leader, Vladimir Putin, are meeting in Moscow, what we have learned about this round of conversations.

Plus, all eyes on the fed as it weighs of what to continue combating inflation. Will they raise the interest rates given all of the uncertainty in banking, and if so, by how much? We are going to take a closer look.

Plus, a concerning new warning about fentanyl now being laced with a veterinary tranquilizer that is even deadlier. What you need to know, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:20:00]

BERMAN: This morning, Chinese President Xi Jinping is in Moscow meeting with Russian leader, Vladimir Putin. This is Day 2 of these critical meetings. The Kremlin says there has been a, quote, thorough exchange of views and further details will be released later at a joint press conference.

HILL: So, in addition to this, a Ukrainian official says discussions are underway for China to organize a call between Xi and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to discuss the Chinese plan for Ukraine, the peace plan which both the Ukrainians and the U.S. have said is really a nonstarter.

We do have live team coverage for you. CNN's Nic Robertson is in London, Will Ripley in Taipei, Taiwan.

Will let's begin with you. So, Xi has invited Putin to China, calling Putin his best friend, still wants to promote this peace plan that China came with, its idea of how things should go in Ukraine. It doesn't seem to be getting a lot of traction, though. How is all of this going to work?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, first of all, he is helping keep Russia stable, Putin's Russia, from economic collapse, from being a complete global pariah, sanctioned, heavily sanctioned by the west, facing war crimes charges, but you would not know it based on what Xi Jinping is proposing, more cooperation on economy, in trade and facilitate new investments in each other's countries, work on energy cooperation.

It is the kind of talk that you would have with a country that you were trying to grow your relationship with, and that is exactly what China is trying to do with Russia, because they have the same system, the same ideology and the same goal of trying to destabilize the U.S.- led western world order that has been in place since the end of World War II.

And in terms of the peace plan that this supposedly neutral Chinese president is going to talk about with the Ukrainian president, it has no concrete proposals to end the war. Its 12 points, which include an end to western sanctions on Russia, negotiations that would see Ukraine giving up the territory that Russia stole, a NATO pullback from its eastern borders and even conditions that would have Chinese contractors in Ukraine for the reconstruction.

So, that's going to be an interesting conversation because it really doesn't take into account any of what Ukraine's demands are, which is that they get back the land going back to 2014. And, remember, these guys are having this meeting in this posh, large, very socialist kind of hall, that kind that you see in Beijing, the kind that you see in North Korea, and there you see it at the Kremlin. Well, in Ukraine, the president and his people are facing daily, almost, bombardment of the civilian infrastructure and a lot of them still struggling in the dark right now. BERMAN: So, Nic, you spent a lot of time in Moscow, and part of what Vladimir Putin wants, he is definitely already getting, which is just this picture with Xi Jinping. But how much more does he realistically want from these meetings and are you seeing signs he is getting that?

[10:25:02]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He would really like to get weapons from China. I mean, this is what he needs. He needs ammunition. He needs shells for his artillery that are on the frontlines. There has been a noticeable drop off from Russia's artillery recently. He'd like more sophisticated missiles to target Ukraine's energy infrastructure. There's a long wish list on the military terms that he wants.

It is interesting that, publicly, as far as we know, Xi Jinping has brought with him his two top foreign policy people, his top foreign policy adviser, Wang Yi, and his foreign minister, but not ostensibly a defense official, although Putin is bringing into some of the meetings not only his defense minister but a military business official, national security officials. So, Putin would desperately like weapons.

Now, Xi has been put on notice not to do that, not to provide sophisticated weapons, not to provide any weapons at all. It is not clear what used equipment he may be providing, in terms of computer chips that might be useful for Russia to build its own missile systems, but what Xi is really giving Putin here, and remember, Putin is the more smaller, more supplicant partner right now, Xi, at times, when Putin was under economic stress, and we've heard this before, gets good business deals out of Putin. But what this does for Putin, it will help him fund the war, it allow him to keep it going. And Putin wants a long, drawn-out war. That's in his best interests.

So, Xi will, it seems, by improving trade relations, by putting more money into the Chinese economy to make up for the deficit of what Putin is losing from the international sanctions, this will help Putin at least stay in the war, maybe not to fight it as well as he wants to. So, this is really the value for Putin.

BERMAN: Will Ripley, Nic Robertson, thank you both so much for being with us.

HILL: Still to come here, the fed meeting today as it weighs, of course, its next move to tackle inflation. That decision was already on the books. But add in the recent banking uncertainty, how much does that raise the stakes on this decision? We are going to take a closer look at what could happen, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]