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U.S. Government Looks to Calm Banking Fears; Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to China Gary Locke; Russia and China Pledge Deeper Ties; New York City Prepares For Potential Trump Indictment. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 21, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:03]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Tonight on CNN, this programming note, "CNN PRIMETIME," days after the former president said he would be arrested, CNN's Pamela Brown taking a close look at Donald Trump's legal woes, from election interference, to mishandling classified documents, to the hush money payments, to what happens next.

"Inside the Trump Investigations" airs tonight live 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you tomorrow.

Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington.

And, right now, authorities in New York and Washington are on high alert, preparing for potential unrest if former President Donald Trump is indicted. According to an internal memo shared with CNN, all NYPD officers are expected to be in uniform and ready to deploy.

These are images that you're seeing now out of New York today, so far small gatherings of pro-Trump and anti-Trump demonstrators. And then, in Florida, protesters are outside of Trump's home in Mar-a-Lago.

The district attorney in Manhattan has given no timeline on when Trump could be charged for his alleged role in hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels. The former president has claimed that he could be arrested today and has called on his supporters to protest.

CNN's Kara Scannell is following all of this.

So, Kara, what more do we know about these preparations for what's really an unprecedented moment in U.S. history, a former president criminally charged?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, it is an unprecedented time.

I mean, right now, we have just -- we're seeing a small buildup of police presence, but it's really very low-key and calm around the courthouse. It's more the things behind the scenes, the increased security cameras, the barricades that they have in place for potential deployment, if necessary.

And, as you mentioned, there was the internal memo telling people to be in uniform today and ready to deploy, if anything were to take off, any protests to take off,given former President Trump's tweet over the weekend asking his followers to protest this potential indictment.

I mean, right now, around me, it's mostly reporters. There are a couple of individual groups who have stopped by the courthouse to just make their thoughts known, but it's not a big event here yet in terms of any sort of protest activity, because we're all still in this waiting game of when will the district attorney make a decision of whether to charge the former president?

What sources tell us is that they are looking at this hush money payment and Trump's alleged role in it. They're focusing on whether Trump was involved in any falsification of business records. Remember, Michael Cohen reimbursed -- Michael Cohen was reimbursed for advancing that $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels.

And he has said he submitted a false invoice to the Trump Organization, and federal prosecutors said that the Trump Organization had incorrectly docketed that in their books as a legal expense. That is a misdemeanor in New York.

So the question is, would they bring this as a felony case. The lowest felon in New York will be falsifying business records to conceal or commit another crime. The question here is, would that crime be campaign finance? In the federal case that Michael Cohen pled guilty to, he admitted under oath to making this payment, which prosecutors said was an outsized campaign contributions, something above the legal limit.

The question here, is that something that the state prosecutors would bring against the former president? We did see some grand jury activity yesterday. The question is now, how long will this decision take, Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Kara, thank you for that.

In the meantime, House Republicans are working overtime rallying to former President Trump's defense. Speaker Kevin McCarthy says the Manhattan DA's case is purely political, while one Republican senator is calling for the DA's arrest.

CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill for us with the latest -- Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is no indictment yet, Brianna, but House Republicans already coming to the former president's defense.

You had a letter yesterday by top three Republican chairmen saying that they wanted to hear testimony, as well as get documents from the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg. You also had Kevin McCarthy, the House speaker, saying this earlier today down in Orlando. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): This was personal money. This wasn't trying to hide. This was seven years ago, statute of limitation.

And I think, in your heart of hearts, you know too that you think this is just political.

But I do get concerned, when I look out there, and I see justice not being equal to others, with a local DA playing in presidential politics. If that starts right there,don't you think it'll happen across the country?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And over in the U.S. Senate, you already have one Republican senator, Rand Paul, tweeting this earlier today, saying: "A Trump indictment would be a disgusting abuse of power. The DA should be put in jail."

We will get more Republican Senate reaction when lawmakers return to Washington this evening for a procedural vote.

[13:05:02]

But, Brianna, what you're seeing here is that when the president argued that he could be indicted today, which, of course, has not happened yet, it brought a lot of Republicans rallying for his defense. Gives you some insight into the messaging war happening already -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Certainly does.

Lauren Fox, thank you on Capitol Hill for us.

Joining us to discuss, we have Shan Wu, defense attorney and former federal prosecutor. And A.B. Stoddard is with us as well. She is associate editor and columnist for RealClearPolitics.

Shan, first off, just look at what these charges could be and what you think the DA might be considering here, as we look at this possibility of a misdemeanor or a felony.

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, the big question is, what is he considering for what crime was there an intent to cover up with that misdemeanor, which would bump it up to the felony class?

So he could be looking at whether there's a state election law that was given -- broken. That was a little bit fuzzy in terms of just taking a look at the New York state election laws. There's obviously a federal campaign finance law he could try to bootstrap to. That would be a little bit novel for the state DA to be using the federal law.

It's certainly theoretically possible, but that might open up a better argument by Trump's team, maybe something like preemption, for example. The other intriguing possibility is, he could try to link it to some of the other financial crimes that were involved. And he'd have to show that when Cohen was involved with, let's say, bank fraud or tax fraud, that Trump knew about that, and that could be part of what was being covered up through that falsification.

So we won't really know until we see the indictment. But there is sort of a menu of choices for him.

KEILAR: A.B., I wonder, looking up at Capitol Hill -- we just heard Lauren Fox's report there -- what do you make of what especially House Republicans are doing here with their investigation?

A.B. STODDARD, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Well, Brianna, we know that telling his supporters that he would be arrested imminently and that they should protest only helps Trump bolster his position in the nominating process, in the primary contests.

But also, for House Republicans, this is extremely productive. The truth is, they're going to run around on conservative media night after night and on the Internet fund-raising telling voters that they are going to go after this soft-on-crime prosecutor who's out to get -- liberal prosecutor who is out to get Donald Trump and that they are going to investigate the investigation.

They cannot investigate a live investigation, and they cannot interfere with a pending case. But that doesn't matter. It will still meet their ends and be quite productive for them. So it's a win-win for House Republicans. This was the best case that could come first that they could call just an old misdemeanor, just a bookkeeping error.

Obviously, any indictment in Georgia or at the federal level over January 6 would be far more difficult for Republicans defense. So they're pretty tickled that this is the one that came first and allowed them to set this narrative.

KEILAR: Shan, what's the effect of the House Republican process here on the legal process?

WU: Zero.

As A.B. was saying, there's no way they can actually get to the legal process. I mean, first of all, it's a state process, not even a federal one.

Second of all, it's an active investigation. And Bragg's office should fight all the way to the Supreme Court to stop any interference. So they're not going to touch it legally. Atmospherically, of course, they can turn it into more of a pressured, circus atmosphere. And there could be more public pressure on Bragg.

But he's committed to whatever road he is going down here. I mean, nothing that they're saying is going to make a difference. It's just posturing for their own effect.

KEILAR: A.B., what do House Republicans do, Republicans in general, what do they do when, at some point, they want their supporters to believe in the institution of the legal process and they need for them to believe in it?

STODDARD: Well, that's a really good question, Brianna, because, for the last couple of years, they have been railing against institutions they have traditionally defended.

Well, you start with January 6, where they were criticizing the police for not -- the Capitol Police for not taking care of the riot, 140 of them injured, and several of them died, and then moving on to even calls on the extreme right from people like Marjorie Taylor Greene to defund the FBI.

This is -- they're going to go for broke, as I said, on this case. In terms of the nominating contest, the primary, it'll be interesting to see once we get -- if there are indictments about January 6, either in Georgia or at the federal level there, it is going to be more difficult for Republicans who are trying to run for president to separate themselves and say this is a serious case.

[13:10:14]

But they will be challenged to do it, because that's a loser in a general election to not take seriously those more severe crimes. So that's a challenge going forward for them, whether or not they want to just continue to injure our institutions and trust in them solely to try to keep favor with Donald Trump's voters.

KEILAR: Yes, it's certainly a conundrum.

A.B., thank you so much. Shan, thank you so much as well for your insights.

And a quick programming note. Tonight on "CNN PRIMETIME," a closer look at Donald Trump's investigations, what he is looking at here, from election interference, to mishandling classified documents, to the alleged hush money payments. What happens next?

"Inside the Trump Investigations" airs live tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

And the Putin-Xi bromance appears to be growing, the two leaders pledging deeper ties in day two of meetings in Moscow. What does that mean for their posture towards the United States and also toward Ukraine?

Plus, another rate hike could be on the way. What Janet Yellen is saying about that and the continued fears over U.S. banks.

And a player on the Cuban national baseball team reportedly defects during the World Baseball Classic in Miami.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:50]

KEILAR: We're following some major developments from day two of the Vladimir Putin-Xi Jinping meeting in Moscow.

You can see them earlier today in the Kremlin's biggest hall there, where they met. China's state media reporting that the two signed a joint declaration deepening their partnership, with Putin saying he's in constant contact with Xi.

A short time ago, the head of NATO said there are indicators that Russia is asking China for military help, the so-called lethal aid, for its war on Ukraine. It's something the U.S. has warned China not to do. And, today, Ukrainian officials confirmed to CNN that discussions are under way for a conversation between Xi and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

So there is so much happening here today. Let's talk about it now with Major General James "Spider" Marks, retired, and former U.S. Ambassador to China Gary Locke.

Ambassador, to you first.

What is your reaction to what you have seen from this summit so far?

GARY LOCKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: Well, it's really all about show.

It's trying to enhance the image of Putin, in light of the criminal charges by the International Criminal Court against him. And China simply wants to project and enhance its image as a peace-loving country trying to bring people together. But it's really all about show. And I really don't think much of the Chinese proposal, by way of a peace plan or their cease-fire.

KEILAR: You don't think much of it there.

So, general, the head of NATO is saying today that it's looking like Russia is asking for this lethal aid from China, this military assistance. How could that change the war?

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it certainly could.

And that's kind of a reinforcement of what our intelligence community has been saying as a possibility. It certainly could change the war. But the real issue is, is that, if China is going to provide some enhanced capabilities to Russia, Russia has to have the ability to absorb those capabilities and use them effectively.

To date, they have demonstrated they don't have that capability. Everything they engage with in a tactical manner is always very -- every one of those things is stovepipe. They will use artillery. It won't be in concert with maneuver. They will try maneuver. They won't necessarily use fires. They certainly engage without intelligence.

So these challenges exist. This equipment by itself has to be utilized in an effective way. And I'm not sanguine the Russians know how to do it. KEILAR: That raises some very serious questions, considering what we

have seen Russia do on the battlefield and not do here in the last year.

Ambassador, I wonder if that's something Xi is thinking about. What is he weighing when he's thinking, yes, maybe I will give lethal aid or, no, I'm not going to?

LOCKE: Well, first of all, China wants to increase its economic ties with Russia. It certainly could use the oil and natural gas and agricultural commodities from Russia.

Russia very much wants that money that they can use to pay for the war against Ukraine. But China's going to have to think very long and hard about providing any type of lethal military equipment to Russia, because not only will the United States come down hard by way of sanctions, but so will the other European countries.

And making the cost of Europe -- of Chinese products much more expensive in Europe or not allowing those Chinese products at all into Europe would really cripple the Chinese economy, put a lot of people out of work, and that would create huge domestic problems for the Chinese.

KEILAR: Yes.

I mean, Putin here, General, is clearly trying to sweeten this relationship with Russia during this expected ask, right? He has just announced that he's ready to increase uninterrupted oil supplies to China. What's he doing here?

MARKS: Well, I find it quite ironic that Xi is coming to -- coming to Putin. He's also -- he's on the heels of this success bringing Iran and Saudi Arabia together diplomatically.

And he's bringing a 12-point peace plan. And you read through that peace plan, you say, well, on the surface, a lot of that makes sense. But then, as you go through it, you realize it really has some real issues, and it's directed very controversially toward NATO and the United States' participations.

[13:20:04]

China views all of their relationships through a transactional lens. And, also, China doesn't have allies, and it doesn't have friends. It has clients. It has vassals. And this truly is a vassal-like relationship that's being directed here.

And, as the ambassador indicated, the relationship that China has, economic relationship that China has with Europe is hugely important. China cannot afford to risk that.

KEILAR: So, neither one of you, very clearly, thinks much of this sort of peace framework that China is proposing here.

Ambassador, perhaps it is that, of course, the U.S. -- or maybe a lot of people in the U.S. are not the audience. I expect that China expects there are many people like yourselves who are not going to be buying this.

Who is the audience, then? Who is China trying to sell this image of themselves as a peace broker to?

LOCKE: Well, China is trying to develop stronger economic and political relationships with many of the other countries around the world in terms of the former Soviet republics, Africa, Southeast Asia, and many of the other developing countries, including Brazil and India.

So, China is trying to present itself as kind of a new force, standing up against the Western powers or the Western order. China and many of these other countries that are emerging much stronger economically and politically feel that they're having to abide by the rules made by the United States and some of the European countries.

And they feel that they should have a say in the so-called bylaws of the country club. And they feel -- they really resent the heavy- handedness and the dominance of the United States and the European countries in terms of so much of world affairs.

KEILAR: Ambassador, what are you expecting from a meeting between Zelenskyy and Xi?

LOCKE: Well, I think they have to do it. It's a matter of show.

China has to try to reach out and say: We're -- if we're serious as a peace broker, we have to reach out to all the parties.

And, certainly, the president of Ukraine has to listen to anybody who's offering a proposal for peace, because you can't -- you can't reject overtures for peace. But the Chinese peace plan is really very hollow. It's calling for a cease-fire, allowing the Russian forces to continue the occupation of Ukrainian territory, and really enable the Russians to build up reinforcements, supplies, ammunition, and then, when the cease-fire ends, Russia will be in a better position militarily to continue its attack and invasion of Ukraine.

KEILAR: General, how do you think Ukrainian military leaders would be viewing this?

Surely, they will understand that Zelenskyy is meeting with Xi, and then what do you think Zelenskyy might say coming out of a meeting like that, considering?

MARKS: Yes, the message to his military leaders is going to be, look, we have to be able to maintain the offensive. We have to be able to try to achieve our strategic objectives.

Yet the input, I would imagine, he's getting is the reality and the challenges that are on the ground, the fact that Ukrainian units are doing tremendously well. Yet there is tremendous bloodshed. There are numbers that really have to be considered here, and the advances. Have the Ukrainians been able to achieve some operational, not just

tactical, but some operational successes that will put additional pressure on Putin, so that Ukraine can possibly go to some type of a negotiating -- negotiation from an improved position?

So, this is the give-and-take that Zelenskyy is going to have with his military leaders. They will speak truth about what's taking place on the ground, the successes they're having, but the real challenges of beating back the large numbers that the Russians are providing in terms of support at the tactical level of engagement.

KEILAR: Ambassador Gary Locke, General Spider Marks, thank you to you both.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is looking to boost confidence and calm fears about the U.S. banking system, but she's also talking about new action to protect smaller banks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:00]

KEILAR: Another rate hike could be on the way, and so could more bank rescues.

Today, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Uncle Sam is poised to swoop in if another regional bank nosedives, like SVB or Signature.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Our intervention was necessary to protect the broader U.S. banking system. And similar actions could be warranted if smaller institutions suffered deposit runs that pose the risk of contagion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: For now, though, it is other banks to the rescue, 11 of them, propping up First Republic with $30 billion.

And now the battered regional lender has hired J.P. Morgan Chase to shore up its financials even more. Markets are up on the news. And the Fed is watching all of this ahead of tomorrow's decision on interest rates.

CNN's Matt Egan is tracking this for us.

So, Matt, Yellen keeps trying to reassure everyone that the banks are fine and the government and bigger banks will stamp out any fires. Has that calmed things here?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, it does look like things have calmed down significantly.

[13:30:00]