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CNN International: Chinese Leader In Moscow For Talks With Russian President; Chinese And Russian Leaders Hold Second Day Of Talks; Sources: Indictment Possible As Soon As This Week; First Republic Shares Tumble To A New Low Monday; Should The Met Police Be Broken Up? Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 21, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: This is not just a turn up and a handshake and a quick discussion and get down to business and we can both go our own ways. I'm here. I've got your back. I'm your friend.

You know, Xi's already told Putin he thinks he'll win elections next year. Putin's already congratulated Xi on becoming reelected president for the third time. There's a lot of bonhomie, but there's a lot of substance behind closed doors. The two meetings today, a state dinner tonight.

So I think a lot of what we're seeing, the length of the meeting, perhaps part of it is a statement that these two leaders at this time stand together in opposition to NATO, to the Western alliances backing Ukraine, and that gets the root of, you know, Washington's concerns about what kind of peace it is that Xi says is going to propose.

And we know that the Ukrainians are waiting to hear confirmation that President Zelenskyy will get a call from President Xi, but we'll get more meat on the bone later today. But thorough discussions is what we've heard has happened so far. Thorough discussions and discussing the peace plan have been part of it we know.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: These images are extraordinary, aren't they when you consider really what they represent away from what they're talking about. It feels like a new locust is being set, in a way, in Eurasia.

ROBERTSON: I think it's being set globally. I mean, this is, if you like, part of President Xi's messaging, not just of support for Putin, but his view of where the world is going. This is a China that has recently sort of jumped out into significant diplomacy in the Gulf. It's never done that before.

These are changing times. And I think what we're seeing is President Xi, in part, setting out his stall for perhaps the global south, for others that believe, perhaps autocracies like his, like Putin's, are the way forward. This is a challenge to democracy. If you sort of read through President Xi's statement -- that was in the Russian media before his arrival -- he talks about how they -- and I think President Putin had this in his message, too -- how they share the values and principles of the U.N. Security Council, how they uphold the rule of international law.

Yet that seems utterly about face and inverted from how the west would view it, that it actually is China and Russia that are challenging the international law as it stands, by, you know, by virtue of human rights abuses at home, by virtue of invasion of Ukraine and Russia's part.

So, yes, this is very much posturing in that regard. And both of them will talk about how they'll develop their economies together. That's also part of that picture.

FOSTER: It's not an equal partnership, though, is there? If you look at the images, also, Putin looks smaller. I know he's a smaller man, but isn't it --

ROBERTSON: And a smaller man --

FOSTER: Yes.

ROBERTSON: -- and a smaller population.

FOSTER: And so all of the power in this relationship is really with China because, as you were telling me earlier, you know, Russia is pretty desperate for help right now. China's got the help he can potentially give. And Putin hasn't got many other options, has he, in terms of superpowers?

ROBERTSON: He doesn't. And this is a superpower with semiconductors when Putin's cut off from semiconductors, which might be described as dual use equipment for more sophisticated weapons systems that is desperate to build, because he can't really get access to them or the components in the way that he used to.

Yes, I mean, President Xi, while he's a staunch ally here of President Putin, knows there are bargains to be had in Moscow. I mean, if we go back to when Russia faced sanctions for its original invasion of Ukraine, 2014, China got a great oil deal, the figures of which were never produced, at least for years afterwards, with Putin because he needed the money.

And it's very much the same scenario right now. Putin's touted how the two leaders agreed last year that they would up their economic cooperation to the value of $185 billion in 2022, though, the aim $200 billion by 2024. He's touting, Putin is touting that they're close to doing that already this year.

So, yes, the economy is stronger, but by far, China a larger country with a larger population, more technologically advanced, more perhaps savvy and smart in its diplomacy around the world. And Putin is struggling. He's in a war that he can ill afford, that's costing him more money, costing him popularity, that's costing Russia lives. And this is the time when Xi can come to the table and get better economic deals for China that will advance -- advantage it long into the future.

FOSTER: Nick, thank you.

Let's speak to Matthew Chance, he's there in Moscow. Just take us through the format today, Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hey, Max. Yes, well, I mean, look, it's -- this is the round, the part of the state visit where there are formal negotiations. So within the next few minutes, if it hasn't begun already, President Xi Jinping of China will be meeting Vladimir Putin inside the Kremlin.

[08:05:02]

They're going to be having sort of various sort of levels of formal negotiations inside that building, to look at ways about how they can bring these two increasingly autocratic countries even closer together. I mean, much of the emphasis, I expect, is going to be on economic relations.

I mean, Russia has become a very important major resource for things like oil and gas and minerals and things like that for China to fuel its expanding economy, whereas China for Russia has become an economic lifeline. You know, with all the international sanctions placed against Russia, it is increasingly dependent on that trading relationship with Russia to sell its resources, but also to receive technology as well.

I mean, a couple of other things. You know, military aid, it's not being discussed openly here. Russia desperately needs ammunition, battlefield technology, to help push forward its effort in Ukraine. The Chinese have held back from that so far, and they may continue to do so.

But, you know, there's a concern in Western circles and in Ukraine, of course, that that might change and the Ukraine -- and the Chinese may start providing more equipment and munitions to Russia, which could turn the tide of the battle.

The other issue is that diplomatic effort that China has overseen -- oversaw, which is -- overseeing, which is this peace plan that it's put out there 12 points which call for talks between Ukraine and Russia, but stopped short of demanding that Russia withdraw from its -- from the territory it's already conquered.

On that issue, Ukraine officials tell CNN that discussions are underway now between the Ukrainian and Chinese governments for a first phone call with -- between the two leaders of China and of Ukraine. That would be significant, although nothing concrete, according to officials, has been scheduled so far.

But there is this perception in Ukraine and in the west that China isn't an entirely honest broker in all of this, illustrated by the fact that the two leaders, Putin and Xi Jinping, have met face to face more than 40 times. This latest one, you know, coming after all those others, obviously.

But there's never been a single conversation so far between the Chinese and Ukrainian leaderships. And so that's something that may well change over the coming days.

FOSTER: OK, Matthew in Moscow, back with you as you get pictures from those meetings and the statements. Thank you, Nick, as well.

The White House remains skeptical. The Xi-Putin summit suggesting the talks won't likely yield any positive developments for Ukraine. The Biden administration is concerned that Beijing may reiterate calls for a ceasefire that would allow Russian forces to remain inside Ukrainian territory or provide Moscow with lethal aid to use against Kyiv.

The U.S. Secretary of State says the timing of the Chinese president's visit is telling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: That President Xi is traveling to Russia days after the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for President Putin, suggests that China feels no responsibility to hold the Kremlin accountable for the atrocities committed in Ukraine. And instead of even condemning them, it would rather provide diplomatic cover for Russia to continue to commit those very crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: And we'll bring you the latest, of course, from the Xi-Putin meetings in Moscow as they happen and come into us. Now Japan's Prime Minister is visiting Ukraine today to meet President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Fumio Kishida arrived in Kyiv, a short while ago. His surprise trip marks the first time the Japanese prime minister has visited a region during wartime since World War II. Japan's foreign ministry says Mr. Kishida will convey the country's unwavering support for Ukraine.

New York City and Washington, D.C. are bracing for possible protests ahead of a potential indictment of former U.S. President Donald Trump. It all stems from an investigation by the Manhattan District Attorney into an alleged hush money scheme involving adult film staff Stormy Daniels.

Trump's former attorney and key witness in the case, Michael Cohen, said he was not needed as a rebuttal witness on Monday. But his former lawyer, Robert Costello, did testify before the grand jury.

CNN's Kara Scannell is standing by outside the Manhattan courthouse. We think it might happen purely because Donald Trump thinks it might happen, right? We haven't had the formal notice.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Max, that's right. I mean, this was coming from Donald Trump saying that he expected that, and even one of his own campaign folks had said that Trump was basing that on his speculation from news reports, that it wasn't something that had been relayed from the district attorney's office.

You know, that said, it has kicked off, you know, concerns -- security concerns, because Trump has called for protest. He's called for people to come out and demonstrate for him. So we're seeing the beginning signs of some security preparations.

Yesterday, they put up security cameras on late posts. They removed all the trash cans. They put up barricades. But the scene is very quiet now. You know, it's just beginning -- these beginning signs of having plans in place for security in case anything breaks out.

Now we're told the NYPD asked all of its officers to wear their uniforms today in case they needed to be deployed. That not based on any credible threats, we're told, but just because they want people to be ready in case things do escalate. Though, as right now it's very common. There are no signs that that's happening, Max.

[08:10:16]

FOSTER: OK, Kara in New York, thank you.

Now, a look at the global financial picture following the UBS-Credit Suisse deal. European markets higher, as you can see, for a second day after being battered last week following the collapse of the two American banks. You'd have to trust me on that one.

But the U.S. -- in the U.S., another bank is raising some concern. Shares of First Republic tumbled more than 45 percent to an all-time low on Monday. They're higher now in pre-market trading. The bank got a $30 billion lifeline from a group of America's largest banks.

Let's bring in Clare Sebastian. So when the markets go up, we generally feel better about things because they feel more secure. But there are other worrying elements, perhaps, of this latest bank we're looking at.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Max, this is still a very volatile time. I think you can say that markets are starting to find some stability, some level of calm after a very bruising couple of weeks that have seen all these fears come out about the financial sector. This comes off the back, of course, of the acquisition by UBS of Credit Suisse, off the back of the actions by global central banks in terms of putting more dollar liquidity into the system.

There are, though, as you say, still questions floating around that acquisition of Credit Suisse by UBS. How messy will it be? How drawn out? Lots of fears about layoffs and still a lot of jitters in the bond market because of that decision. That has really rocked those with knowledge of all of this that the Swiss authorities did when they wiped out $17 billion worth of bonds but did give some money back to shareholders.

That really upset the accepted pecking order of things. But we are getting stability and some of it off the back of comments that have come out this morning ahead of a speech by Janet Yellen in a couple of hours, where she is set to say that the federal government could actually step in and help uninsured depositors again should another regional bank face trouble.

She's also expected to say in remarks that were released that the situation with deposits of those regional banks is stabilizing. So some calming words from her there. And even though First Republic shares are set to comeback up, but the market opened, not enough so far to recoup the losses that they made yesterday, there are still questions swirling around whether a sort of plan B rescue could be in the works for that bank, Max.

FOSTER: OK, Clare, thank you.

Still to come, a damning report has found that London's Metropolitan Police is institutionally misogynist, racist and homophobic. We'll discuss the shocking findings on Britain's biggest police force.

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[08:15:01]

FOSTER: Should London's Metropolitan Police be broken up? The U.K.'s largest police force is under immense pressure after an independent review lasting a year accused the Met of failing to protect women and girls and some other groups as well, along with its own female staff, by perpetuating a misogynist, racist and homophobic internal culture.

The review was led by Baroness Louise Casey and she found that Met police is in need of, quote, radical reform. She really didn't hold back in any of her language. Met Police Commissioner Mark Rowley said the force accepts the findings and intends to act on them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIR MARK ROWLEY, MET POLICE COMMISSIONER: It's not simply the ghastly fact that we have racists, misogynists and homophobes in the organization, but actually it's also about we've got systemic failings, management failings, cultural failings, which has given them more license to operate than we ought.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN Investigative Producer Katie Polglase has been across this story for months, joins me now. Goes about years, though, doesn't it really, Katie? If we look at the racism allegations, these, you know, accusations keep coming up. They don't act on them. We've got to this point. They say they're going to reform again, which is why the author is talking about, you know, potentially breaking the force up.

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER: You're absolutely right, Max. And that's identified in the report that this is not the first report. This goes back years and years. We're talking about the Stephen Lawrence inquiry back in the 1990s that identified institutional racism in London's Met Police. And those allegations are still there, they're still being mentioned.

And so the question is why these reforms have not yet been successfully implemented and that is causing issues to public trust in the Met Police. The report mentions 51 percent of women and girls in London do not feel the police can keep them safe. Those are shocking statistics, really, and really encapsulates the level of trust and the issue at stake here.

FOSTER: In terms of what might be done, when she says breaking it up, is that because there's a particular focus on particular units which perhaps should be closed down?

POLGLASE: Yes, it's clear there's systematic overhaul asked for here. And she does identify, notably there's a specialist firearms units that are particularly bad offenders in terms of behavior and standards. She says, that is, of course, the units that we noticed that David Carrick, who was the center of our investigation last week was part of.

He became one of Britain's most serious sex offenders of all timed and an armed police officer. Likewise, Wayne Couzens, another notable figure in British headlines over the last few years after he brutally kidnapped, raped and murdered a young woman, Sarah Everard, in 2021.

In fact, that was what sparked the report initially. The fact that both of these officers were part of an elite armed firearms unit in the Met Police has caused outrage really here in the U.K. And in fact, the report has asked of that specific unit to be disbanded and to then be reset with a new ethos. So at the moment, you can see already the language is turning towards a potential breakup of at least some sections of the Met Police.

FOSTER: And what's the response from the prime minister and the London mayor, who have ultimate oversight?

POLGLASE: It's been pretty stark already. Sadiq Khan said yesterday, the evidence in this report is damning, and you can see the language. He does not mince his words. Likewise, the Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, has said that the report really shows there needs to be cultural change to the Met Police.

And the question really is, is that going to happen? Because these statements have been made before, these inquiries have come out before, and the language is often stark, but this, again, is increasingly stark. Institutional racism, institutional misogyny, institutional homophobia. Is this the point that is going to finally change the Met?

FOSTER: We'll see. Katie, thank you.

Coming up, a second day of high stakes talks set to take place at the Kremlin between the leaders of Russia and China. But it's Ukraine that will likely top the agenda.

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[08:20:48]

FOSTER: Chinese leader Xi Jinping, Russian President Vladimir Putin, both set to begin a second day of talks in Moscow. Ukraine is expected to be at the top of the agenda, of course. These images came into us just a few moments ago. You can see an official welcome there for the Chinese leader there in Moscow.

The west is skeptical and worried by all of these. Both leaders met for more than four hours on Monday. The Kremlin says both leaders had a thorough exchange of views during that meeting. Will Ripley watching all of this from Taipei.

So another four hours today. Have we any idea of the agenda that they're going on to next?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is more of the official talks now and, you know, all of this happening at the Kremlin. Looking at these pictures, the lavish ceremony is in stark contrast with what President Zelenskyy in Ukraine is going through as his country is under bombardment.

China claiming to be a neutral party, and yet if President Zelenskyy actually gets a phone call with President Xi, he's basically going to be sold, or attempted to be sold. China's 12-point peace plan, which includes the ceasefire, an end to Western sanctions, negotiations that would ask Ukraine to give up territory that Russia stole, plus NATO pulling back from its eastern borders, and then Chinese contractors helping rebuild.

I mean, to think of somebody as a neutral party offering those terms that basically reward Russia for the brutality and the unnecessary war that they've waged now for more than a year. And yet President Zelenskyy does want a trade relationship with China. He wants, you know, he wants economic support, certainly to help rebuild his economy at the end of all of this.

And so it's just a really tough position that he's going to be put in. Speaking with President Xi, as Xi and Putin, you see there talking about how they are best friends. Now, you know, President Xi invited Vladimir Putin to Beijing for a lavish state visit there. So it's a sign that the first four and a half hours of talks went pretty well, Max, and they're expecting to, you know, talk more, also sign bilateral documents today.

Of course, what has been not talked about, at least not publicly, is whether China is going to take their neutral stance and kind of cast it aside and start providing Russia with what Putin wants, which is ammunition to fill in his dwindling arsenal of ammo. The U.S. says he might not have serviceable ammunition before the end of the year. China can solve that problem.

They can also send a lot of weapons and a lot of high tech microchips that Russia needs that the west won't sell because of sanctions. Pretty interesting to see these scenes here, Max, and just think about what the Ukrainian people are going through right now. FOSTER: Yes, the red carpet being rolled out in spectacular form in Moscow. This is a really top level sort of welcome, isn't it, Will? You know, very generous, I guess, of President Putin. But when we look at these images, it's pretty generous of Xi as well, isn't it, to allow Putin to put him on this platform, on the global stage. It's a real sign of recognition of where he puts Putin's stature on the global stage.

RIPLEY: Yes, I mean, to have the leader of, you know, one of the most powerful countries in the world with the second largest economy, China, you know, prioritize coming to see a man who is, you know, facing potential trial for war crimes, who is a global pariah to many around the world, and yet he is getting the validation from Xi Jinping right there.

Just days after, you know, these war crimes, you know, charges were announced. It is -- it's extraordinary, and it really does show that what connects these men is ideology. They both feel that the U.S. enforced world order for the last 70 plus years is something that needs to go away. They feel it limits their countries, their authoritarian systems, and so they are determined to work together to try to strengthen their side and to try to destabilize the Western side, a lot of analysts say.

You know, here in Taiwan, the government's been calling out the hypocrisy of President Xi, you know, talking peace with President Putin. Considering the fact that China regularly intimidates this democracy with its warplanes, with its ships, and is widely believed to have ambitions to take it back by force if necessary, at some point in time.

[08:25:18]

And so, to see these peace talks across much of the west, it feels very disingenuous. Although people inside China who are relying on state media to get their news have a pretty positive impression of Vladimir Putin because of the way he is portrayed almost valiantly, you know, like a rough and tumble, you know, heroic guy.

That's how a lot of people in China think about this man who has waged this war on Ukraine and that has resulted in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

FOSTER: Will, stay there in Taipei. I'm going to bring in Nic because we want to rerun these pictures, Nic, watching Xi walk into that spectacular hall, talking about the red carpet, it really is being rolled out a spectacular style, isn't it?

They're also getting on very well. You can see them smiling. They look like -- they look quite matey, dare I say. How is that going to be seen from Washington and Brussels and London?

ROBERTSON: Well, it's going to reinforce the impressions they're already getting, that Xi is there to help Putin and not so much help Ukraine Xi is there to help himself to what he hopes to be is the trajectory in path to make him and China the most dominant countries. I think it's going to reinforce, just as Will was saying, that image.

What I was struck there, not just by the red carpet, but, of course, the very shiny floor and the grand scale of Russian buildings. You know, we're very familiar with President Putin sitting at the end of a long table. In some ways, this is a grandiose walk in version.

But you know what my takeaway was from watching this. Guess who or wait to see who gets on spot to that central carpet where they meet, where the two meet. Putin gets there first.

FOSTER: (INAUDIBLE) again.

ROBERTSON: Xi, not in a hurry. Putin is there. When he gets to that central carpet there, he arrives a few steps first. To me, that hints of a keenness and Xi really can save. At the moment, it's Putin that needs him more than the other way around.

FOSTER: Xi enjoying this, do you think?

ROBERTSON: It's a necessary part of what he hopes to achieve. I mean, he's certainly a man who can sit through hours upon hours upon hours of what many people would consider exceptionally tedious meetings, and President Putin likewise the same.

I think this is something for Xi that is an opportunity that's presented itself. It's an uncomfortable one in some ways. He wants to see economic order in the world. He doesn't want to see disorder. Because that's how China's future is built on a more stable economy than the one that Putin's precipitated the world into, which is a war in Ukraine, which has been a shortage of oil in some markets, gas in some markets, forced up interest rates, forced some countries to sort of teach a close to recession as we've seen, that's hit some what other people otherwise thought were safe banks.

This is not the world that Xi wants to see, yet this position is a moment of opportunity, as Will was saying, to autocracies challenging the Western order, but at the same time saying that they hue to the values of the order that was established in the post-World War II world order. That Putin and Xi speaking about the ties between the countries going back 70 years, that they were difficult in the beginning, but they're much better now.

This is a confluence of two very important powers, two permanent members of the U.N. Security Council really teaming up in a way that was not quite aligned like this maybe two years ago.

FOSTER: They're discussing a peace plan potentially, aren't they, because certainly China is presenting one. The assumption is that it doesn't require Russia to leave Ukraine. If they agree to some sort of peace plan, will anyone take any notice of it in the west?

ROBERTSON: I think in terms of the longevity of how long any peace initiative is going to have to be to resolve the issue in Ukraine between Russia and Ukraine, yes, it will. I mean, people are going to pay attention and see what's in the detail. We know that Xi's top foreign policy adviser Wang Yi, when he was speaking at the Munich Security Conference about a month and a half ago, said, look, you and Europe need to understand and recognize the serious and legitimate security concerns that exist. Meaning Russia's position.

There is no stated position on China's part that Russia has invaded a non-aggressive nation. They're taking Putin's word about the perceptions of NATO's aggression and NATO world order. You know, Xi will be very -- Xi will recognize very well that part of what NATO's reorganization has also done recently, and with -- along with the United States taking a lead role to shore up its military capacity in and around Taiwan and strengthening ties with Japan and South Korea.

[08:30:00]

So Xi also will see NATO here as a potential aggressor. So he's ready to slip into Putin's perspective on NATO, and it works for him to have Putin at the forefront of that conflict with NATO, rather than China needing to fight it with Chinese soldiers. So there's much here that works for President Xi.

FOSTER: We've just got some new pictures in. Will, you're in Taipei. This is the bilat, isn't it? What do you make of the people around the table?

RIPLEY: Well, it's -- this is -- what this is really about --

FOSTER: Not many pictures.

RIPLEY: -- in the view of many here and many in the west, is that Xi is basically making Russia -- he is protecting Russia from economic collapse. He's keeping Putin's Russia strong enough to provide a counterbalance to the United States, and he's also distracting the west to a large extent.

So people aren't really talking about Taiwan, they're not talking about Chinese military incursions here in Taiwan. But Taiwan is about to have something in the next coming weeks that could potentially trigger a very large response from China, and that is President Tsai Ing-wen doing a transit through the United States on her way back from Guatemala and Belize, and she's going to be meeting with the U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy

.Now, China has put out a statement telling the U.S. not to allow this to happen, that this trip promotes Taiwan independence, which is a red line. You know, Xi Jinping's eventual ambition, it's widely believed that he will take Taiwan back under Chinese control, by force if necessary. He stated as such, and he is growing his military at a very rapid clip.

He needs a strong Russia and the support of a strong Russia down the road to achieve his own ambitions in this part of the world. And so, by supporting the Russian economy, by giving legitimacy to Vladimir Putin, he's essentially insulating Putin to some extent from his global pariah and alleged war criminal status that he now holds in much of the world, certainly the Western world.

FOSTER: OK, Will, thank you. Also, Nic, here in London. We will be bringing you any updates in terms of just pure pictures, which are pretty spectacular, but of course, on the substance of those meetings.

Thanks for joining me here on CNN Newsroom. I'm Max Foster in London. World Sport with Amanda is up next.

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