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Biden, Trudeau To Take Questions; Legal Pressure Grows In Investigations Into Donald Trump; Trump's Exec Privilege Claim Rejected; Meadows Ordered To Testify; Threatening Note Sent To Manhattan D.A. Bragg; Federal Grand Jury Heard From Trump Lawyer Evan Corcoran Today; Drone Kill U.S. Contractor, Wounds 5 Service Members In Syria. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 24, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And as you so rightly point out, Boris, the issue of that Chinese spy balloon add to that surveillance buoys that Canada found in the Arctic.

And they are saying loud and clear that if we're going to have that continental defense, we need to step up our our defenses, and that includes more sophisticated satellite systems and technology, especially in the Arctic, where they are going to need it most.

But also point out that he made a point to say hello to the two Michaels. Who are the two Michaels? The two Canadians, who were held in arbitrary detention for more than 1,000 days and many believe that was in retaliation for the United States asking for the extradition of Meng Wanzhou, she was the Huawei CFO.

Joe Biden -- Pierre Trudeau, pardon me, Justin Trudeau, thanked Joe Biden for really aiding the release of Meng Wanzhou, in fact, came to a plea deal. And that really shows the closest of these two countries and what they hope to accomplish going forward. And we await that press conference, Boris and Jessica.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: That's right. Paula Newton for us in Ottawa. A big day for President Joe Biden in Canada. And we are looking ahead to that press conference where we'll hear from President Biden and Prime Minister Trudeau.

Paula, thanks so much for your reporting.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And still ahead, there are big developments in two separate investigations involving former President Donald Trump. We'll bring you the very latest when we come back.

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[15:35:48]

SANCHEZ: Now one of the major signs that the legal walls are closing in on former President Donald Trump and one of the most serious investigations he's facing, the federal criminal probe of his involvement in the January 6 Capitol siege and efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss.

We're learning that a federal judge rejected Trump's claim of executive privilege. And he's now compelling some former top aides of Trump's administration to go before a federal grand jury.

DEAN: And that includes his past White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, his ex-Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe and his former National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien, CNN Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz is in Washington now with the latest. Katelyn, give us some perspective on how big of a deal this ruling is.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Boris and Jessica, Donald Trump has developed quite a losing streak in the federal courthouse in the investigations of Special Counsel Jack Smith, looking into the January 6, what happened there with the federal grand jury and looking at the Mar-a-Lago classified documents issues.

In this situation, this is one of the final rulings coming from the chief judge who's had to look at all of the challenges Donald Trump has brought to the grand jury proceeding every time he's tried to block someone from answering a question in the grand jury or turning over a document.

And this appears to be a ruling that is going to affect at least a half a dozen people. So in all, Donald Trump has tried to block answers of more than a dozen people on the January 6 side as well as on the Mar-a-Lago side in these investigations. And in this particular decision, this is the judge saying he can't claim executive privilege here. He can't claim privacy around the presidency whenever there is a criminal investigation, wanting to get answers.

And so these people, if they have not answered already, they are going to have to answer questions before the grand jury. Now Trump's spokesperson did accuse prosecutors of continuously stepping far outside the standard norms. It's not usual to get executive privilege situations like this before a chief judge.

But in this sort of circumstance, typically judges do allow criminal investigations to get answers in this sort of circumstance tried to get answers around the presidency. And so it's not particularly unusual that this ruling came down.

SANCHEZ: And we have to point out, Katelyn, that just an hour ago or so, you were standing outside of a courtroom in D.C. where Trump's attorney in a completely separate case, was ordered to testify by a judge who believes that it's possible the former president may have committed a crime in the classified documents case. So a lot going on for the former president.

Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

DEAN: We have some breaking news just into CNN, a law enforcement source telling CNN the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, which is currently leading another separate investigation to former President Donald Trump, received a package containing a white powder substance and a threatening note addressed to the District Attorney Alvin Bragg.

SANCHEZ: And let's go to CNN's Kara Scannell who joins us now live. And Kara, we know there was added security in Manhattan around that courthouse. What more are you learning about what they found?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right, Boris, Jessica. As you say that law enforcement officials tell us that a suspicious package was delivered Friday to Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office with a threatening note to him. Now a spokeswoman for the office tells us that the NYPD Emergency Services Unit and the New York City Department of Environmental Protection review the material and determine that there was no dangerous substance.

This does come as Trump has called for protests. And it's really ratcheted up his rhetoric, even recently overnight saying that there would be death and destruction if he was indicted. So certainly raising the temperature around this investigation and certainly the attacks on Alvin Bragg. But again his office says that there was no dangerous substance found in this white powdery substance that was included in the package. Boris, Jessica?

DEAN: The story just been right in the spotlight all week. Kara Scannell for us on that breaking news. Thanks so much.

[15:40:05]

And let's turn back now to those legal cases. We want to bring in Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor. It's great to see you. I want to start first with the case that Katelyn was talking about, this January 6 case and efforts to overturn the 2020 election, which really centers around executive privilege.

And it's something that President Trump and his legal team have tried to assert time and time again, and it just has not worked for them in front of any of the -- really any of these judges. What do you make of that? And is this kind of a broader commentary on executive privilege when it comes to potential criminal acts as a former president?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, as we were just hearing a moment ago from our fantastic reporter, the -- it's not surprising that executive privilege ultimately was trumped here, pun intended, by the need for the grand jury to investigate matters that are criminal in nature.

What the courts have held is that as long as the information can't be obtained from another source, then the grand jury need to investigate overrides executive privilege. It happened in the Clinton case with a even a deputy White House Counsel, who was brought in to testify by the Grand Jury there. And then it happened before that, of course, in the case of Richard Nixon.

So I think what's amazing here, of course, is the sheer breadth of the investigation. I think this really shows how aggressive Special Counsel Jack Smith has been to push this investigation forward.

SANCHEZ: And if we could, I'd love to put up a graphic of who this decision by the judge applies to because, Renato, there are some big names there. You've got a former White House Chief of Staff and Mark Meadows. You've got John Ratcliffe, a former DNI, Stephen Miller, a close ally and adviser to President Trump, Dan Scavino, John McEntee, Ken Cuccinelli is on there. It's a lot of names. If you were prosecuting this case, whose testimony are you going to be focused in on the most and what are you asking them?

MARIOTTI: Well, Mark Meadows 100 percent. You know, Mark Meadows, in many ways was the gatekeeper to former President Trump. You know, the chief of staff to any president, in many ways is the gatekeeper to them. But Donald Trump was somebody who did not use email was not, you know, texting himself at that time.

When people needed to reach Donald Trump, they went to Mark Meadows. And of course, we have the testimony of one of his key aides. Before the January 6 committee, we know that she's been cooperating not only with those authorities, but I believe with law enforcement as well.

And so, frankly, Mark Meadows, in many ways, is going to be the linchpin of this. I wouldn't be surprised if he asserts to the fifth. And it'll be interesting to see how the investigators react whether or not, for example, Jack Smith tries to compel his testimony or immunize him and tries to get some sort of deal with Mark Meadows should be very interesting.

DEAN: And before we let you go, I want to ask you about another case that we had some developments and this is also a federal case, but it's focused on those classified documents. And we know that Trump's attorney, Evan Corcoran, was compelled to testify by a judge after the DOJ provided enough evidence that they think that he helped perhaps further a crime on behalf of former President Trump.

This one really centers around attorney-client privilege, a different type of privilege. How rare is it and help underscore this for all of us just how rare it is for this sort of thing to happen where an attorney has to testify, and perhaps even provide testimony against their own client?

MARIOTTI: Well, I have been practicing criminal law for over 20 years, you can probably tell by some of the gray in my beard, and I have never seen prosecutor invoke attorney-client privilege, much less get a successful ruling from a judge allowing that prosecutor to pierce attorney-client privilege -- or excuse me, to invoke the crime fraud exception.

And really to get a ruling from a judge that says the crime fraud exception applies to pierce attorney-client privilege, never seen anything like that. It's very unusual, very different than this executive privilege question we were talking about a moment ago. And really there what you are likely going to be hearing, you know, is very candid comments from Trump to his attorneys.

Because in my experience, clients are understandably very candid when they talk to their lawyers. That could be very problematic. And ultimately, at least reportedly, this is about Trump allegedly lying to his lawyer in order to get the lawyer to make a false statement to law enforcement. That, if true, would make the former president responsible for that obstruction of justice in false statements to law enforcement.

DEAN: All right. So much to come there. Renato Mariotti, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still ahead, President Biden authorizing an airstrike in Syria after a suspected Iranian affiliated drone kills a U.S. contractor and wounds five American troops. We'll have the latest from the Pentagon next.

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[15:49:54]

SANCHEZ: We want to focus on the situation in Syria now where President Biden ordered an airstrike in retaliation for the death of an American. A deadly drone attack killed an American contractor and wounded five service members yesterday

[15:50:07]

DEAN: Last hour, the Pentagon said officials are confident that drone was targeting U.S. forces and that it was an Iranian made weapon. CNN's Natasha Bertrand is following these developments for us. And Natasha, what more do we know about how all of this unfolded and how that drone was able to get through that airspace?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Jessica. Well, we did get a bit more of the timeline from the Pentagon press secretary last hour, he laid out what happened here, which is that around 6:30 a.m., Eastern Time on Thursday, an Iranian -- a suspected Iranian drone, I should say, did target a U.S. and coalition military base in northeastern Syria.

And then later on Thursday, about Thursday night, the U.S. retaliated and launched an airstrike that targeted two facilities in Syria believed to be used by Iranian proxy groups to store munitions and also gather intelligence.

Now, we are told by the press secretary there that they're still assessing how many militants were actually killed in that U.S. airstrike. It is still unclear. And he declined to elaborate actually on how this drone, the suspected Iranian drone actually got to its location in the first place and was able to kind of breach the U.S. base there and crash into its intended target.

He said that they had a full sight really of the radar, and that they were going to conduct now an assessment as to how this happens in order to mitigate any risk to U.S. personnel in the future. But he also said that the U.S. is prepared to protect American personnel in the future and did not rule out future U.S. airstrikes to do that. However, he did say that the U.S. is not seeking a confrontation or conflict with Iran directly. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. PAT RYDER, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: In terms of escalation, look, again, our focus in Syria is on the defeat ISIS mission. And that will remain our focus. We do not see conflict with Iran, we don't see escalation with Iran. But the strikes that we took last night, were intended to send a very clear message that we will take the protection of our personnel seriously and that we will respond quickly and decisively if they're threatened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: Now, the commander of U.S. Central Command has said that the US is shifting its defensive posture in the country in response to these attacks. But of course, we will have to wait and see whether the U.S. conducts yet another retaliatory attack against yet another attack by Iranian proxy groups just this morning, 10 rockets fired at a U.S. base in Syria. Jessica, Boris?

DEAN: You know, something that is happening and happening more and more. All right, Natasha Bertrand for us, thanks so much.

CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier is joining us now. She's a Senior Managing Editor at the Military Times. It's great to see you. Thanks for making time. We were just hearing that reporting from Natasha and she talked about how the Pentagon is investigating and can't really elaborate yet as to how this actually happened, how this drone was able to cross into that airspace if they had a full view of the radar.

What do you think about that? And do you have any thoughts on how that might have happened?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Technologies and perfect, and depending on the size of the drone, because the Pentagon hasn't released that, it could have been something that was small enough to somehow evade radar. Now, look, the forces in Syria are fairly constantly regularly under attack by Iranian-backed groups, according to U.S. officials.

The Central Command Chief General Eric Carrillo said just this past week in testimony to Congress, that U.S. forces had been hit more than 70 times since 2001 by these Iran-backed groups. So it's something that they prepare for, they have air defenses to guard against it. But it's the kind of thing that is just a fact of life if you're going to be in a sort of war zone area where there isn't really anybody in charge.

And this is one place where Iran, where Tehran can strike back at U.S. forces in a so-called gray zone beneath the level of a full war to sort of damage the United States reputation without actually risking full scale open warfare. SANCHEZ: Now, Kim, we know that Iran arms, these proxy groups and helps to fund them, but I'm wondering what your take is on how closely they influence decisions like the one yesterday to launch this attack. Is this something that to run monitors very closely?

DOZIER: Well, the Defense Department statement said that this was a group that was backed by the Iranian guard force. So that seems to indicate a pretty high level of coordination with the Iranian regime. But there is an existing sort of pipeline that goes from Iran, across Iraq, into Syria with all sorts of different sophisticated weaponry. I've had Iraqi and Israeli officials and some U.S. officials confirmed this to me.

[15:55:04]

So every time the U.S. strikes back as it did at facilities, as it said, near Deir ez-Zor in Syria, it takes out some of the skilled operators that U.S. officials believe are Iranian trained, and some of that sophisticated equipment that's made it into Syria where it can menace the U.S., its forces, or U.S. regional allies.

DEAN: And Kim, you mentioned this gray zone and that's where, you know, they're able to kind of -- that Iranian-backed proxy groups are able to kind of go after American forces in Iran can be behind it, that sort of thing. But even in that gray zone, is there a risk for escalation when now we have an American citizen dead?

DOZIER: Absolutely. Had this been even worse, I mean, my heart goes out to the family of the U.S. contractor, who must have gotten this horrible news yesterday. And of course, there's a notification process, which is why we didn't hear up the news in the press until hours and hours later.

But, you know, the fact of the matter is, the troops there are under constant threat. There was also the threat of ISIS. There were something like 300 raids against ISIS in Syria in just the past year. This is an area where America is at low grade war, and only occasionally does the public realize it.

If the attacks are very, very deadly, though, then the White House has to respond. And this point, it's been this way, the worst the attack, the worst, that response could be.

DEAN: Right. Yes, you make a great point. All right, Kim Dozier, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Great to see you.

And we want to say thank you to all of us for joining us today. I'm Jessica Dean.

SANCHEZ: Great to be with you this week, Jessica. I'm Boris Sanchez. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts after a short break.

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