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Reports: Prominent Russian Military Blogger Killed In St. Petersburg Blast; Blinken Speaks With Russia Foreign Minister About WSJ Journalist Arrest; Biden Issues Major Disaster Declaration In Arkansas After Tornadoes. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 02, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with dramatic new video out of St. Petersburg, Russia of an explosion at a cafe that reportedly killed a prominent Russian military blogger and injured at least 25 others, you see it right there, the explosion taking place at that cafe.

CNN's Matthew Chance is in Russia.

Matthew, what more are you learning about the explosion of the military blogger and you'd mentioned earlier perhaps a trophy or a statue that he was given that may have been the source of the explosion.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, that's not confirmed that although RIA Novosti, the state media here has been quoting its sources in the Interior Ministry, saying that that's what they're looking into at this point.

And now, certainly there is video and there's been eyewitnesses giving accounts of this figure, Vladlen Tatarsky is the sort of pen name that he had. His real name was Maxim Fomin, a notorious Russian prowar military blogger.

There are lots of pictures of him sort of receiving that award inside that cafe, you can look at the devastation on the screens right now. That's obviously the aftermath of the explosion.

And at the moment, Russian health officials are telling us that as well as the one person dead Vladlen Tatarsky, there's 25 injured 19 of them are in hospital, six of them in a very grave condition according to the Russian Health Ministry.

Tatarsky, a notorious figure, very popular figure inside Russia in the sense that his Telegram channel has more than half a million followers. He is one of the country's most prominent military bloggers.

He came to notoriety last year, when in September, he was in the Halls of the Kremlin, and he put out in his blog, you know, after the annexation of various regions in Ukraine that we will defeat the Ukrainians, we will kill them, and we will rob them, we'll get everything we want.

So, you know, he is extremely hard line and it was at a gathering of hardline prowar activists in St. Petersburg, in a cafe where he was the guest speaker, where this explosion took place. Again, Vladlen Tatarsky confirmed is killed, another six people gravely injured, 19 people in hospitals. We are watching those figures very closely, indeed, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And then Matthew, are there parallels being made between this explosion and the killing of some other prominent Russians, who were also pro-Kremlin, pro-invasion of Ukraine?

CHANCE: I mean, those parallels are bound to be drawn because it was in August last year where a woman called Darya Dugina, whose father was a very prominent nationalist and she is a prowar activist as well, you know, was assassinated in a car bomb or killed in a car bomb explosion on the outskirts of Moscow. The Russians blamed Ukrainian Secret Services for that, the Ukrainians for their part, have denied it.

There hasn't been a direct finger of blame by the Russians pointed at anyone right now, but we are still early days. It's just been a few hours since this explosion took place.

The Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova has come out within the past few minutes actually and described this, characterized it essentially, as an attack against Russian journalists, an attack against Russian journalism. So that's how the -- you know, that's how the officials at this point who are speaking on the matter, are characterizing this, not necessarily as a terrorist attack right now, but as an attack on a Russian journalist.

WHITFIELD: All right, Matthew Chance in Moscow. Thanks so much.

Also today, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says the fate of detained "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Evan Gershkovich is to be determined by Russian Courts.

Lavrov conveyed the message during a phone call with US Secretary of State Antony Blinken according to a Kremlin release. The US State Department said Blinken raised his grave concern over Russia's unacceptable detention of a US citizen journalist during the call. Gershkovich was detained last week on charges of espionage. It's the first time an American journalist has been detained on accusations by Moscow of spying since the Cold War.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us. What are you learning -- Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke earlier today with his counterpart, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov where he expressed his deep concern about the detention of that "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Evan Gershkovich. Now, this is a very rare phone call between the two men as this is

only the third time that they have spoken since the war in Ukraine, and Blinken used that call to press Russia to release Gershkovich immediately.

[15:05:01]

SAENZ: The State Department said in a readout of the call: "Secretary Blinken conveyed the United States' grave concern over Russia's unacceptable detention of a US citizen journalist. The Secretary called for his immediate release."

Additionally, they said, "Secretary Blinken further urged the Kremlin to immediately release wrongfully detained US citizen, Paul Whelan." Paul Whelan is serving a 16-year sentence for espionage charges.

Now, after the news of this phone call broke, the Russian side said that this was a phone call that was requested by the United States and that Lavrov told Blinken that ultimately, Gershkovich's fate would be determined in Russian Court.

Now both the White House and "The Wall Street Journal," his employer have pushed back on those charges of espionage calling them ridiculous and not accurate, but this is all coming as there is so much tension between the US and Russia, not just about Ukraine, but also the detention of these American citizens.

One thing that the State Department is still working towards is trying to get consular access to Gershkovich so they could see his conditions, see his state, so that officials are aware and also they can convey that to his family.

WHITFIELD: All right, and Arlette, you also got a new statement from the White House and how the President plans to support victims of the severe weather that has swept across the US.

SAENZ: Yes, just moments ago, President Biden said that he is offering his prayers to those who have been impacted by these severe storms across the country over the weekend, and he pledged that there would be Federal support for the impacted communities.

This comes after the President spoke with Arkansas Governor, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, as well as the Mayors of Little Rock and Wynne, and he also said he spoke to Governor Carney of Delaware, a State that saw some storms impact the area just yesterday.

Now, these storms hit the Midwest and the South, just hours after President Biden had toured that storm damage in Mississippi, a storm that had hit just last week. So just once again, the President trying to stress that the Federal government will be there every step of the way, as these communities tried to rebuild.

WHITFIELD: All right, Arlette Saenz at the White House, thanks so much.

All right, now to more on that extreme weather, we are watching the death toll rise today. At least 29 people were killed by the severe weather that ripped through seven States, dozens more were injured. At least 35 confirmed tornadoes carved a violent path of destruction on Friday.

And today, President Biden issuing that major disaster declaration for hard-hit Arkansas, where there were multiple reports of tornadoes touching down. Before and after satellite images now of Little Rock. Well, it tells the story. A confirmed EF3 tornado blasted the city with devastating 165 mile per hour winds flattening neighborhoods.

And now, a new threat is emerging poised to put 13 million people in the path of extreme weather in Central and North Texas.

We have teams tracking all of this. Let's start with meteorologist Derek Van Dam who is live for us in Wynne, Arkansas where the Mayor there received a phone call from the President. How are people doing?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Fredricka, people are tense. You know, there's a lot of emotion in the air because this town in Wynne, Arkansas took a direct hit. It was just moments ago that the Governor of Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee Sanders arrived on this location at the Wynne High School. We've been reporting from here with the devastated church behind us now for a good 24 hours.

You can see the scrum of journalists behind me, the media just waiting to hear what she has to say as she tours.

The home of the Yellowjackets, this is the Wynne High School. You can have my cameraman pan around just to see the scope of the devastation. This is really just a drop in the bucket. But as Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the Governor of Arkansas arrived on this location, she was flanked by several other Federal employees, including a FEMA Administrator, as well as a National Weather Service member.

And I kind of piqued my ear and a little bit just to listen to the conversation because it was very busy, very active. And the meteorologist from the National Weather Service had said that, as she was talking to Governor Sanders that this was at least, as they assess the damage, at least an EF3 tornado and what that means is winds of 136 to 165 miles per hour.

I looked that up, and I think this is really important to read because this is from the National Weather Service. Damage from an EF3 tornado maybe severe, can include entire stories of homes being blown off and the first floor walls of a home toppling down. That is at the very minimum what we have witnessed here today as we've gotten a broader scope and magnitude of the damage in Wynne, Arkansas.

So is it an EF3 or higher? We know at the very base minimum, winds were 136 miles per hour where I'm standing. It is just incredible, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Fierce. All right Derek Van Dam, thank you so much.

[15:10:05] WHITFIELD: Meteorologist, Britley Ritz is tracking a new extreme

weather threat today and yesterday, Britley, you said it's not over this weekend and into the next week even. So, what's going on in North Texas right now?

BRITLEY RITZ, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Fred, we're watching at North Texas at the moment when we were watching the SPC and the National Weather Service kind of communicate together and try to determine whether or not they're going to issue a tornado watch. It's likely that that will happen. It hasn't been issued just yet.

But what we're really focused on is that area highlighted in orange -- Wichita Falls, Fort Worth, Dallas included. This is where we're likely to be dealing with golf ball to baseball sized hail, two inches in diameter, if not larger. That's our biggest threat. Also damaging winds, 65 miles per hour if not stronger than that and several strong long lived tornadoes, a possibility.

We're already starting to see initiation. That's the line that's developing out ahead of the dry line, that area that tells us where the dew points are much more significant, and that's ahead of it where that moisture is coming in from the Gulf of Mexico along the warm front, and that's fuel, that lift as well.

You'll see it really fire up around five, six, seven o'clock, and that's when we can expect some of the strongest storms and it pushes eastward back into areas that have dealt with that severe weather as well over the past few days coming into Monday morning, anywhere between six to seven o'clock in the morning. That's system number one.

System number two comes into play on Tuesday, and these areas have been impacted as well. Little Rock included on up into Peoria, back into Eastern Iowa where we had that EF4 tornado, that's near Ottumwa. So several tornadoes, a possibility yet against, strong long lived tornadoes, damaging winds in excess of 65 miles per hour. Once again, large hail.

We've had 72 reports of tornadoes, reports not confirmed, reports 35 confirmed over the last 48 hours. Let's put this into perspective. You add that in reports 385, since January 1st, that's over 150 percent of our average.

Typically, Fred we don't start severe weather season or tornado season until we get into April. So, we're a month early.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness. All right, Britley Ritz and Derek Van Dam, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

All right, coming up: Donald Trump is getting ready for his day in Court. The former President will be arraigned on Tuesday in what will be a historic moment for this country. We'll discuss that next.

And at least 25 cars went off the tracks in yet another train derailment. The latest out of Western Montana straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:16:35]

WHITFIELD: Tomorrow, former President Trump will fly to New York where he is expected to appear in a Manhattan Courthouse on Tuesday and be the first former President criminally charged. His advisers and allies are already looking ahead to a potential trial and raising questions about whether Trump can get a fair hearing.

Today, one of Trump's attorneys told CNN they will fight every charge and suggested they will likely file a Motion to Dismiss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE TACOPINA, DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: We will take the indictment, we will dissect it. The team will look at every potential issue that we will be able to challenge and we will challenge it, and of course I very much anticipate a Motion to Dismiss coming because there is no law that fits this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: We have team coverage of this historic indictment. CNN's Polo Sandoval is in New York where security preparations are underway for Trump's Court appearance, and CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida near Trump's Mar-a-Lago home.

Kristen, let's begin with you. What more can you tell us about how Trump's legal team and the former President are preparing for this?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, as you just heard Joe Tacopina say, it sounds like they are preparing for battle. And as you mentioned, there are -- there have been a lot of conversations around whether or not the former President could have a fair trial were this ever to go to trial.

The former President himself put out on social media, he attacked the Judge that he's expected to appear in front of on Tuesday saying that that Judge hates him, obviously implying that then anything done before that Judge would be unfair.

We've also heard from Trump's advisers and allies who say if this were to go to a potential trial, they do have serious concerns about it being fair given the political makeup of Manhattan, but in terms of what the legal team is actually doing, we are told by sources close to the team that they are waiting to make any final decisions until they see that indictment, which they are expected to do on Tuesday.

Listen to what Joe Tacopina told our Dana Bash about what's going to happen after those charges are made public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The former President said that the Judge hates him and was handpicked by the DA for this case, for that reason. Are you going to ask for a different Judge? TACOPINA: We are going to take the indictment, evaluate all our legal

options and pursue every one most vigorously.

This is a case of political persecution.

I have no reason to believe there's such a bias. I've not been before him on this matter. So we have to let this process play out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And when Tacopina talks about letting the process play out, that is very much the legal part of the process. Now, we know that his political team has been working day in and day out to really shape the narrative around this indictment. They have been calling out allies, they have been blasting on social media, trying to make sure the messaging is the same, that this is a political hoax, that this is a witch hunt.

Now, the real thing to keep an eye on is on Tuesday night after he is arraigned, former President Trump is expected to make remarks at his Mar-a-Lago resort when he returns back to Florida. This will be in primetime at 8:15.

The reason why we'll be watching so closely, this is going to be the first time we actually hear from the former President after those charges are made public. The other thing to keep an eye on, how do Republicans and his allies respond?

Remember, all of this defense including from the former President himself, and those around him has come without ever knowing what those charges actually are. So, if this changes or shifts the narrative at all that's what we're going to be looking out for -- Fredricka.

[15:20:08]

WHITFIELD: Yes, a lot ahead, potentially.

All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

Now, let's go to Polo Sandoval outside the Manhattan Courthouse.

Polo, what can you tell us about the security preps and the expectations for Tuesday's Court appearance?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, you've heard 100 Center referenced over and over again, that's actually the building where these highly anticipated and highly watched proceedings will take place. It's the building that you see behind me.

The NYPD have been keeping a constant presence here for weeks, but really has ramped up the last couple of days not only outside the building, but also Court officers inside working through the weekend to make sure that this building remains secure.

This is where multiple sources have already indicated Donald Trump, the former President, after arriving in New York tomorrow, on Tuesday will then travel here to officially face those charges.

Now, we have to remind viewers of the why we have seen the significant increase in preparedness for police. It's not just because the defendant in these proceedings will be the former President of the United States, but it is also that political drumbeat that has been playing in the background and the concern on behalf of the NYPD and other Federal officials here in New York, that any potential protests, which we should add has been slow to materialize, could potentially devolve into something violent, and that's why they want to be prepared.

Now, we should mention that based on what we've heard from the New York City Mayor's office, they do not have -- they have not identified any credible threat, but that doesn't mean that they will let their guard down, and that is why much of the preparations that we've actually heard about, they are happening behind the scenes with the Intelligence Community scouring online, making sure that they're not missing any sort of posts on social media that could potentially incite people.

But again, things are quiet now, but in about 48 hours, this will be one of the busiest buildings once those proceedings really get underway once the former President arrives in New York City tomorrow.

WHITFIELD: All right, all eyes trained on that part of Manhattan and beyond.

Polo Sandoval, Kristen Holmes, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

All right, let me now bring in Ron Brownstein to talk more about all of this. He is a CNN senior political analyst and a senior editor for "The Atlantic."

Ron, always great to see you.

So not only are a lot of Republican lawmakers rallying around Trump, but even his likely top rivals for the GOP presidential nomination, you know, are coming to his defense and attacking the indictment as nothing more than politics. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: These are people who are outraged by this indictment. They were not outraged by Trump's attempt to overturn a democratic election. They were not outraged by the violence on January 6, they were not outraged by an illegal phone call to the Georgia Secretary of State, an illegal phone call to Volodymyr Zelenskyy. They are not outraged by multiple --

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The unprecedented indictment of a former President of the United States on a campaign finance issue is an outrage.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): That is when you know that the law has been weaponized for political purposes. That is when you know that the left is using that to target their political opponents. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so you really need to be listening to the two ladder.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

WHITFIELD: You know, officials there, the former Vice President and Ron DeSantis, the Florida Governor, as I, you know, talk about how they are supporting him without even knowing what the charges are.

So why are they showing so much loyalty to Donald Trump?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, I feel like stop me if you've heard this before. I mean, this is essentially the way the Republican Party has dealt with Trump since he came down the escalator, even those who believe that ultimately, he is leading the party in an unsustainable direction, politically.

Throughout his presidency, we have not seen any significant critical mass of Republicans being willing to set any boundaries on his behavior out of fear of theoretically alienating the voters that he has energized and brought into the coalition. And this extends, as you note, to the candidates who might even be running against him in 2024, who have a very strong argument to make that whatever you feel about these charges, this is exactly the sort of behavior that raises questions about his ability to win another election.

But you know, Fred, I'm thinking Republicans have drawn this line, they have set this precedent on this first investigation and indictment of essentially saying preemptively, before they've seen anything, it's a hit job, it's a witch hunt.

They may now have to do this three more times with investigations in Georgia and two from a Special Federal Counsel before anybody votes. Are they going to continue over and over again, to say any allegation against Trump is inherently political and illegitimate?

[15:25:02]

WHITFIELD: Yes. Meantime, the former President, he seems to be enjoying this. I mean his campaign team has raised $5 million since the indictment, and now you heard our Kristen Holmes, you know, reporting that Trump plans to speak at Mar-a-Lago Tuesday after returning from his indictment appearance in New York. So, I mean, is he cashing in here?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, yes and no. I mean, this is an example of kind of the myopia of Trump's political vision, which is focused on one thing, above all, constantly energizing his base and providing them new reason for outrage. That was enough for him to win in 2016. Didn't work for Republicans in 2018, it didn't work in 2020 and it really didn't even work in 2022 when they underperformed historical showings for the party out of power, particularly people who are dissatisfied with the economy. The conundrum facing the Republican Party is this clearly is helping

Trump solidify his position for winning the GOP presidential nomination next year. I think there's no question we're seeing a circling the wagons effect that is boosting him. But simultaneously, you can look at the polls and say that this is weakening him as a potential General Election nominee, if he does win that nomination.

I mean, we are seeing in this all the kind of behavior, the volatility, the turmoil, the scandal that drove away so many Independent voters in those '18 and '20 and '22 elections, even those who were somewhat sympathetic to some of the policies that Trump pursued.

You know, you can lose sight of this in the kind of conservative media eco-bubble and distortion field, but a majority of Americans reject the idea that the investigations against Trump are witch hunts and a majority of Americans who said they support this specific indictment in two polls that have come out last week.

So the conundrum for Republicans, it is strengthening him to win the nomination and maybe weakening him if he does win.

WHITFIELD: Okay, so a moment ago, we heard S.E. Cupp. Now, we're going to re-rec that soundbite and put it into a better context for you because, you know, as a political commentator, she blasted Republicans for defending Trump's indictment while keeping silent about other Trump-related controversies.

Now, listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: His there are people who are outraged by this indictment. They were not outraged by Trump's attempt to overturn a democratic election. They were not outraged by the violence on January 6th. They were not outraged by an illegal phone call to the Georgia Secretary of State, an illegal phone call to Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

They're not outraged by multiple credible accusations of sexual harassment, assault, and rape. They're not outraged by Trump's sexist, bigoted, homophobic, xenophobic rhetoric. They're not outraged by his White nationalism. They're not outraged by his defense of antisemitism and Neo Nazis.

They're not outraged by all that stuff. So with all due respect, no one should care that these people are outraged by this indictment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So do you see that potentially, there is going to be, you know, regret coming from some of those Republicans?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, Republicans have laced the straightjacket that they are now in on Donald Trump because, as S.E. noted, and as I said earlier, throughout his presidency, they have had the same strategy, which is not to draw boundaries, not to criticize him in any meaningful way, not to break from him, which they could have done after January 6th. They could have -- the Senate Republicans could have voted to convict and prevent him from running again.

The problem Republicans have is that the voices who are enthralled to Trump are always very quick and very loud to dismiss any criticism of his behavior, as you know, the Deep State or elites expressing disdain for his voters and the Republicans who disagree with that, who believe that Trump is behaving improperly, or at least that he is leading the party in an unsustainable direction politically, the most they will do is remain silent. They will not offer a meaningful counter argument.

And as a result, the voices that Republican voters trust are only -- you know, the only voices who they trust that they're hearing or those defending Trump. And so you get these poll numbers that show 80 percent of Republicans, for example, in a Marist poll last week said that this is a witch hunt or 75 percent said they still want Trump to be President. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If the Republican coalition hears no counter arguments, the overwhelming number of them rally behind Trump and then the Republican-elected officials who are critical of Trump use that consensus among the base as the justification for remaining silent.

They have boxed themselves into the corner they are now in. We saw after 2022 how many Republican leaders were more openly saying that a nomination of Trump would be the wrong step in '24 on kind of crass electoral grounds, little on the moral grounds that S.E. was talking about. And here they are six months later with him in a very strong position, in part because they have been unwilling to call out the ramifications of his behavior.

[15:30:02]

WHITFIELD: All right, all of this on the eve, we've got 48 hours away from this historic moment of a former President being indicted and arraigned.

All right, Ron Brownstein, thank you so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, and now yet another train derailment today, this time in Western Montana where at least 25 cars went off the tracks. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, this just in to CNN: A freight train has derailed in Western Montana, and it happened near Paradise, Montana this morning.

Emergency dispatchers tell CNN that multiple cars were derailed. The Sanders County Sheriff's Office did not share what the train was hauling.

[15:35:06] WHITFIELD: CNN national correspondent, Camila Bernal joining me now

with the details that you know, Camila. What's going on?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred. So thankfully, officials are saying it does not appear that the train was hauling any hazardous materials. They're also saying that there were no injuries reported, but let's go over what we know.

It happened around 9:20 AM local time today near Highway 135, you mentioned Paradise, Montana. So the Sanders County Sheriff's Office and the Fire Department responded to the scene. There are about 25 cars that were derailed and the train derailed on the banks of the Clark Fork River. Those are the images you're seeing there.

Again, thankfully, it does not appear that anyone was injured or that there were any hazardous materials, that's really the most important thing to take from this. But it is a big investigation going forward. Authorities are on the ground and trying to figure out exactly what happened here. Details are very limited, but we continue to ask officials exactly what happened and if there are any more information of what was in this train -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Camila Bernal, thanks so much.

As former President Trump prepares for his day in Court this week, he is also going on the attack against the Judge presiding over the case. How this could affect the outcome, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:28]

WHITFIELD: Former President Donald Trump is preparing for his day in Court, set to be arraigned on Tuesday and he is already lashing out at the Judge presiding over his case.

The former President taking to Truth Social to blast acting New York Supreme Court Justice, Juan Merchan claiming he railroaded his company's CFO, Allen Weisselberg. This marks the latest, but certainly not the first time Trump has gone after a Judge.

Joining us right now, CNN senior Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic. She is also the author of the new book, "Nine Black Robes." Congratulations on your book.

So Joan, how do you believe Trump's sometimes contentious attitude toward the Courts potentially impact how all this and perhaps the other cases that he is facing? How they all move forward?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Thanks, Fredricka, and you know, it was so familiar what he said this week, "The Judge hates me" were his words. And it brought me back all the way to 2016 when he was running for President, and he makes everything personal against a Judge and then he takes it in personal overtones.

I remember back in 2016 when a Judge ruled against the Trump University in a fraud case, and he attacked the Judge, you know, as a Mexican Judge. And then in 2020, at one point when the Supreme Court ruled against his administration, he said, do you get the impression that the Supreme Court dislikes me? So everything is so personal. And this, as I said, felt very familiar what he did this week.

But I have to say, you know, Judges try to move past that, and I think what's going -- what you're going to see on Tuesday, is a judge trying to lower the temperature as much as possible, Fredricka, and try to blow past this bluster of Donald Trump's, if that's possible now.

You know, back when I started this book, I never thought I'd still be writing about Donald Trump in a daily way attacking the judiciary, but here we are looking forward to Tuesday.

WHITFIELD: Wow. And you talk about Trump's influence on the Court in your new book, and you write: "Through some combination of his sheer presence and brazen arguments, as well as the particular character of his judicial appointees, Trump had an outsized impact on the Court. His effect on the Justices' relationships with each other was even at times pernicious as he sowed distrust."

And so you know, expound on that, because during his presidency, he helped stack the benches. I mean, he put a lot of Judges -- Federal Judges -- you know, on the bench, and now he distrusts them so much?

BISKUPIC: Yes, okay, so it is it's interesting. I just said, you know, how Judges and Justices try to look past Donald Trump's bluster, but my experience in watching the Supreme Court up close during his four years, was that he could not help but infect their negotiations and the way they dealt with each other.

He did breed distrust. You know, so some of the Justices would start questioning the motives of other Justices, and this even happened with Lower Court Judges who were hearing Donald Trump related cases, because there was always this issue of is a Judge ruling as neutrally as possible here or somehow turned off by what Donald Trump stands for, and his attacks on the Judiciary or the way he was running his administration.

And, you know, when I talk about his outsized influence on the Court, it's not just the way he was able to stack the bench, the Lower Courts, but you know, those three appointments he had in four years was really remarkable. It's not any kind of historic record, but for our modern time, it really is, Fredricka, because when you think of, you know, past Democratic Presidents all the way going back to Jimmy Carter, who didn't even get a single appointee to the Supreme Court, Donald Trump was one lucky guy to get three in his four years and look at the difference they have made, you know, most obviously being you know, the reversal of Roe v. Wade, but on other cases, they will continue to really make a difference.

Trump is out of office, but these Justices are here for life.

WHITFIELD: Yes. All right, Joan Biskupic, thanks again.

BISKUPIC: Thank you. WHITFIELD: All right, as drug overdoses hover near record levels, the

FDA takes a major step to make the over-the-counter version of the opioid antidote, Narcan even more accessible. How much of a game changer might this be? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:49:37]

WHITFIELD: A potential game changer in the opioid epidemic, this week the FDA announced the life-saving overdose treatment, Narcan, will be available over-the-counter for the first time ever, and it comes as deaths from opioid overdoses continue to climb rising more than 17 percent in just one year according to the CDC.

Joining us right now is Lucas Hill. He is a Clinical Associate Professor at the University of Texas at Austin College of Pharmacy. So good to see you.

So deaths from opioid overdoses continues to reach record levels, and according to the CDC, opioid deaths rose 17 percent In just one year from about 69,000 deaths in 2020, to more than 81,000 in 2021.

So how dramatically do you think those numbers will shift by making Narcan more widely available?

[15:50:30]

LUCAS HILL, CLINICAL ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN COLLEGE OF PHARMACY: Well, thanks for having me, Fred.

This is an important step, but I would call it a small step.

WHITFIELD: Why?

HILL: I would stop short of game changer. To be candid, I think it's, it's too little too late for those 80,000 individuals you mentioned who lost their lives in the last year, and for the hundreds of thousands more who died before them.

It's worth celebrating, but further action is certainly needed to counter our national overdose crisis.

WHITFIELD: Okay, so starting with the Narcan availability, you say it's really not enough that it's made available, it's over-the- counter, but you do have to ask for it at the pharmacy, there might be some barriers as to why people will even feel comfortable doing that. Should pharmacies make it more accessible than that? Is it a problem that they even have to go to the pharmacy to request it?

HILL: Well, to be clear, the OTC transition will actually allow this one naloxone product to be sold online and to theoretically be sold in convenience stores, bodegas, places that do not have a pharmacist on duty. So, this does have real potential.

However, I would point out for those in your audience who might not be aware that there are a variety of different naloxone products in the United States, and only one of those products is impacted by this FDA decision. So that's the four milligram naloxone nasal spray sold under the brand name Narcan, that one version should be more readily available as a result of this change.

I would say that the biggest shift will actually be State agencies that are currently receiving large Federal bloc grants to purchase naloxone, to give it out to community organizations in their State that then distribute it. They've been very confused by the uncertain legal status of naloxone. So having at least this one product that's available OTC should make it a little bit easier for them to purchase and distribute it without constraints. It won't do anything for the price, though.

WHITFIELD: What is the price? What do you know about the price?

HILL: It is -- currently, the pricing depends on as a prescription only product, it depends on whether or not you have insurance or paying cash, and States get a slightly different price. But we expect that this OTC product will probably come in around $50.00 for a box of two doses. That's a slight improvement versus prescription only, but it is unlikely to really dramatically change the landscape.

WHITFIELD: Because you think that -- because that is expensive?

HILL: Additional competition is the over the --

WHITFIELD: Is that your argument?

HILL: For many people who need it, that's a high price to pay. The people who are at the highest risk of an acute overdose are people who are injecting illegal opioids. They're our highest priority for distribution, and asking individuals in that scenario to pay $40.00 or $50.00, sometimes multiple times per year, that certainly is a high bar.

WHITFIELD: So do you think --

HILL: There are few harm reduction organizations that distribute it to them that, you know, certainly bears a lot of that cost.

WHITFIELD: Do you think that there is going to be an opening for that price to come down for accessibility to be more commonplace that one day you might even see this version perhaps as accessible as you know, any pain reliever, you know that maybe on the counter that anyone can grab and has a better price point?

HILL: I don't know how much we'll see it come down naturally, but if there were more competition, if there were other over-the-counter naloxone products, we certainly could see some decrease in price. The FDA could do that independently. They could have moved Narcan to over- the-counter back in 2015 when it hit the market. They can move every naloxone product to over-the-counter.

The cheapest naloxone product by far is a vial for intramuscular injection, which is distributed by a nonprofit called, Remedy Alliance. I'm certain they would welcome OTC conversion of that formulation and making that switch would save many lives.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor Lucas Hill, thanks so much for being with us.

HILL: Appreciate it.

WHITFIELD: All right, we have so much more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM, but first CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has today's Innovate.

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VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A team at MIT is using 3D printing to help reshape medical care. By making it more personal.

CHRISTOPHER NGUYEN, CLEVELAND CLINIC: It would be helpful in planning the surgeries to understand and see what patients are like individually.

YURKEVICH (voice over): And they're starting with one of the body's most complex organs, the heart.

Using medical imagery, a 3d printer builds a customized model heart. It's made of a soft, flexible polymer, but otherwise matches the patient's unique anatomy. A special sleeve puts the model into motion mimicking the patient's actual cardiac cycle.

ELLEN ROCHE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, MIT: We're making it active so that it can contract itself and beat and then we can change the anatomy of it to replicate disease conditions.

YURKEVICH (voice over): These models will give doctors a better grip on what is happening with the patient's blood flow before undergoing any type of surgery.

NGUYEN: Everyone knows with Zoom, it's not the same as seeing somebody in person, right? The same thing with surgeons, so the more of a human it becomes, the more information we can get out of it, better health care, eventually.

YURKEVICH (voice over): The team at MIT hopes their project will advance how 3D printing can improve medical education and also healthcare in the future.

ROCHE: It can lead to better surgical outcomes, and therefore that is going to improve quality of life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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