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Soon, Trump Arrives In New York For Arraignment; WAPO: DOJ Has Evidence Of Possible Trump Obstruction At Mar-A-Lago; McCarthy To Host Bipartisan Meeting With Taiwan's President This Week Amid Warnings From China; At Least 32 People Dead After 50+ Tornadoes Rip Through South, Midwest. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 03, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:05]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Right now, President Trump is on the plane that you see there that just took off from Mar-a-Lago moments ago. He is headed here to New York City and to a court appearance in Manhattan.

The first former U.S. president to face criminal indictment, Trump is making history with this trip. All of this is connected to his alleged role in a hush money payments game and cover up involving the adult film star, Stormy Daniels, who alleges she had an affair with Trump.

As of now, the grand jury indictment is still under seal. We are still waiting to see what these charges look like. CNN has formally requested the judge to release it. And 1:00 p.m. was the deadline for the judge to decide.

But Trump's legal team says they plan to challenge every potential issue in that document. It remains to be seen what exactly they will be challenging.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny and David Chalian are back here with me now.

Jeff, obviously, we are still waiting for the legal ramifications of all this to see what this indictment looks like.

But we're already seeing the political benefits and what this could potentially do for Trump's presidential candidacy.

I mean, they are now saying that he has raised $5 million. We should note they are saying that that's not actually in any FEC report that we have seen. But clearly, initially, he is seeing a boost from voters.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There's no doubt about it. I mean, the short-term political benefit of this - we should emphasize "short term." That's all we know right now.

But the short-term benefit of this has been so important for him. And many reasons. So $5 million, as you said, that they've raised or they say they have raised.

And, most importantly, they've frozen the Republican field into place. We have seen his rivals, who are on the cusp of trying to draw, you know, some differences between him - Florida Governor Ron DeSantis was just a week ago. Nikki Haley, the former vice president, Mike Pence.

Now they're all rallying, if not to his defense, certainly going against the indictment of the prosecution.

So what he has done, he has frozen this race into place. And we're sitting here on Fifth Avenue with Trump Tower in the background. Such deja vu from the summer of 2015 and 2016.

[13:35:00]

One thing that's clear, Stormy Daniels has been with him throughout this entire time of his candidacy and presidency, the allegations have.

So the question now - politically speaking, it's been very good for him. Legally speaking, we do not know how this will go because certainly this is not something he ever wanted.

I talked to a longtime friend of his this morning, who said that, yes, he is defiant. But this isn't something he's wanted. He spent his lifetime trying to avoid legal cases just like this.

COLLINS: Yes, that's a really important distinction. This idea that he wants to be indicted obviously is not true. He may benefit from it.

I'm also so interested, David, by how the other Republican nominees or potential nominees are playing around this.

Because Jeff's right that there is no clear-cut way. They're kind of dancing around it, rallying around him, but maybe not explicitly him.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: If any better example of how the dynamics of the modern-day Republican Party and Trump's way within it, then what we've seen from his field of actual and potential rivals.

A candidate in some pre-Trump era would be indicted on criminal charges, that would be an opening as a line of attack and a contrast.

Not the case here. The case here is a rallying around effect, as Jeff is saying, because there's such concern about Trump's supporters and the need for them, come the end of the day, when you're running for the Republican presidential nomination.

I will say one thing in our poll, Kaitlan, I thought was really interesting was an overwhelming majority, three quarters of Americans, do see politics at play in this prosecution.

And so while there is a majority that's approves of the indictment, you also see voters saying, hey, yes, he may have done something wrong here, but it's not devoid of politics here. And that gives Trump a bit of an opening to continue to make that attack on Alvin Bragg.

COLLINS: Yes. And we even saw two Senators, who voted to impeach him, Joe Manchin and Bill Cassidy, yesterday, questioning the merits of this as well.

So that you guys are waiting on Trump to arrive here in New York.

Of course, Dana and Phil, you're back in Washington, where the political ramifications will be playing out there as well for weeks, maybe months to come.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: I feel like they haven't stopped playing out since - since I was sitting outside Trump Tower during the transition back in 2016 after the election. What is old is new again.

But it is important to note - and we've been talking about this repeatedly over the course of last week's - there's so much going on in the investigative front.

And it's not just New York as the former president prepares to face the historical criminal charges in Manhattan tomorrow.

"The Washington Post" has new reporting on the special counsel probe. It says investigators could have more evidence of obstruction tied to the classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, including efforts by Trump himself to sift through contents of some boxes to keep certain items in his possession.

CNN's Evan Perez is tracking all this.

And, Evan, I feel like I need like the court board with the strings to figure out all the things that are going on.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MATTINGLY: But when you get a sense of where things stand, what sticks out to you right now? I always feel like this has been the kind of the biggest anvil of all of the legal cases that the former president has -

PEREZ: It is. And look, I mean, the seriousness of the obstruction issue has been clear since the day they the FBI went to Mar-a-Lago to conduct a search and then uncovered all these additional documents.

The danger for the former president, the legal danger for the former president has been, you know, abundantly clear.

It is also clear, though, that, in recent weeks, based on the activity of the special counsel, with the number of witnesses that they've been bringing in, given tight deadlines, asking them to turn over things.

That there is a sort of this this movement, certainly by the special counsel's office, Jack Smith, to get to a place where they can make a decision as to whether charges are coming.

And again, what makes this different than just say, you know, him holding back documents, the former president having access to these classified documents - he was former president.

What made this a much more serious thing is the fact that they believed he was obstructing.

And so we're beginning to see, at least from this "Washington Post" story, a little bit of what the prosecutors have maybe showing their hands in some of their interactions with witnesses.

They're telling them about certain things that is now abundantly clear that they have someone on the inside who told them about, for instance, this - this this this - this evidence that the former president may be reviewed some of this, some of these documents, and purposely was holding them back.

That's what makes this so much more serious.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: And directed people on his staff to hold them back. That's "The Washington Post" reporting.

And that goes to what you were saying. This isn't just about the classified documents being at his home, just like they were at Joe Biden's home or Mike Pence's home. This is about his active attempt to withhold them.

Even and despite the fact that the federal government was trying to get them back.

PEREZ: (INAUDIBLE) - directed those. I mean, his attorneys are the ones that filled out the paperwork and said that there was no - no more here. And clearly someone told him that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: So we know that they spoke with one of his attorneys and said, you know, you had to testify. Evan Corcoran.

[13:40:04]

I mean, it could also be perhaps that he wasn't telling his attorneys the truth. Yes, you know, these - are all the classified documents are gone, blah, blah, blah.

I mean, we don't know what his attorney has testified to. So that could be part of this puzzle as well.

BASH: And surveillance video -

BORGER: Exactly.

BASH: - that the special counsel seems to have of what went on in those really moments after the former president and his lawyers had told the feds, you know what, you have everything you need.

And then perhaps there's actual visual.

(CROSSTALK) AUDIE CORNISH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Evidently, you guys can talk about this. I'm sure there have been legal setbacks in terms of the Trump people kind of asserting this privilege or another or saying this person shouldn't have to testify, this person can.

These things are starting to be beaten back. There are judges who are saying, no, I don't think so. And that has, you know, broader ramifications for the legacy of this, what will happen for other presidents.

But it also means that he is - he is quite literally on the defense right now. Because a lot of these sort of kinds of little legal battles on the way are not going his way.

BASH: Yes.

And so - go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I was going to say - and I think when you look at what obstruction of justice actually is, this ought to be somewhat concerning to the former president.

Because in order to establish obstruction of justice, you have to prove that, number one, the president, or whoever is being investigated, knew that there was an open investigation and then took some steps to frustrate that investigation.

Now, "The Washington Post" reporting seems to suggest that they had received a subpoena and after receiving the subpoena, the president then directed people to perhaps open boxes or move or mishandled documents, that sort of lock, stock and barrel obstruction of justice.

If it happened the way that reporting seems to suggest that it did, it's quite concerning and ought to be.

BASH: And, you know, just so our viewers don't get legal whiplash here, we want to make clear what we're talking about is the - one of the federal investigations into Donald Trump where there has been no indictment, yet.

We're going to go back to Kaitlan Collins where, in New York, there has been an indictment. It is under seal.

And, Kaitlin, you've been out there reporting on what we're going to see when it comes to the history being made of a former president going and having an arraignment in and about that indictment.

COLLINS: Yes. Big questions about what exactly we are going to see.

We do have breaking news out of Manhattan courthouse just now. That is where CNN's Kara Scannell is.

Kara, we have been asking all morning whether or not they were going to be cameras in the courtroom for this proceeding, and you just now learned what Trump's team their position on this is. What do you know? KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Kaitlan. So the

Trump attorneys filed a letter with the court saying that they would oppose any broadcasting of this arraignment.

They're saying that they have a couple of concerns. A grave concern that a circus-like atmosphere will be exacerbated. I mean, there are tons of news crews here, but there are no signs of protests.

Also they're saying that they have concerns about what it would mean for the security around the former president as he is going to show up here tomorrow, with the floor closed off and restricted access.

And for what is going to be a very kind of controlled environment of when he will walk down that hallway and go into the courtroom to enter his plea, which his lawyers say will be not guilty.

And they also have raised concerns, they said, about what it would do to Trump's presumption of innocence if this were broadcasted to the nation.

Now the D.A.'s office saying that they are not taking a position in this . They point out that there is no First Amendment right of access in New York State to cameras in the courtroom, but they say that they also have said that the law does not have an explicit prohibition against it.

They also noted that, in other cases, some of these high-profile cases, including that of Trump's former chief financial officer, Alan Weisselberg, that a camera was allowed.

A still photographer was allowed to go into the courtroom, snap some photos, no recorded images, but some photos of the defendant at the table, of the entire room just so people can get a sense of what that was like.

They noted that that had occurred before. But they're not really putting their thumb on the scale here as to whether that should be allowed this time.

But again, Trump's team saying that they do not want any ability to broadcast, no cameras in the courtroom. And then this will be a very controlled environment.

Of course, the media argument has been that because this is of such great public interest, a historical moment, a monumental moment in American history, that the public should have a right to know. They should be able to watch this with their own eyes.

You know, there are a lot of questions about the transparency of this process, what the former president may say, what he may not say.

And so to give the public the ability to see it with their own eyes, to be able to determine what they believed that happens and takes place, whether it's fair, that's something that the media has pressed the judge to weigh in on.

[13:45:01]

Now we're still waiting for a decision by the judge on this. And also the decision of whether to unseal the indictment ahead of tomorrow's proceedings expected to take place after lunch tomorrow.

We are told that the judge is likely to issue an order today. The timing of that remains unclear - Kaitlin?

COLLINS: Yes, notable to see the opposition there from Trump's legal team to having cameras in the courtroom tomorrow. We'll wait to see what the judge decides.

Kara Scannell, thank you.

For everyone else watching, we have much more of our special live coverage. Trump is on his way to New York where he will be arraigned tomorrow. That's ahead.

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[13:50:10]

BASH: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is set to meet with Taiwan's president later this week in California.

MATTINGLY: CNN's Melanie Zanona joins us now.

And, Mel, it's been fascinating watching U.S. officials over the course of the last couple of weeks really try and play down the transit of the Taiwanese president yet knowing far - very well that this was likely going to happen.

What more can you tell us about this meeting, particularly given the tensions with China that are only expected to accelerate in the coming days?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, Speaker Kevin McCarthy forging ahead with this meeting with the president of Taiwan. We know it's going to take place on Wednesday at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. There's going to be a bipartisan group of lawmakers in attendance.

And this has been a very carefully orchestrated trip with the official line being that the president of Taiwan is transiting back from Central America, passing through the U.S. on her way back to Taiwan.

Now this is happening despite threats from China. There's threats of retaliation, which could include something like military exercises.

And so this meeting could really rattle the already tense relationship between China and the U.S., especially after the recent spy balloon incident.

But Kevin McCarthy isn't ruling out traveling to Taiwan himself. That is something that he has expressed interest in. He has made standing up to China a top priority of his speakership. He told reporters last month that he is not going to let China tell him when and where to go.

Of course. His predecessor, Nancy Pelosi, did make a historic trip to the island last year. She was the first speaker to travel to Taiwan in 25 years. And China did respond with extensive military exercises - exercises.

So it is always a balance for leaders of wanting to stand up and counter China's threats without triggering further conflict.

MATTINGLY: It's an ongoing balancing act. And U.S. officials are watching very closely what the Chinese reaction will be.

Melanie Zanona, thanks so much as always.

Still ahead, more than a million Americans are under new tornado watches as part of the Midwest and mid-South recover from the brutal stretch of extreme weather.

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[13:55:51]

BASH: Right now, across parts of the south and Midwest, more than a million residents are under a tornado watch.

MATTINGLY: More severe weather, including heavy rain and powerful winds, expected tomorrow throughout the region.

CNN's Derek Van Dam is in hard-hit Wynne, Arkansas.

And, Derek, you've been talking to residents there. How are they coping with what they've experienced the last couple days?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, they're - they're fearful because the threat of severe weather looms heavy on their minds right now.

You know, Phil, Dana, I just want you to see what 165-mile-per-hour winds are capable of. That is a church van, a two-ton van that was literally catapulted in the air, flipping at least 50 ft.

That was what one of the residents of the church, that you see behind me that has been completely demolished, told me just a few moments ago.

Just incredible to hear some of the eyewitness accounts of how powerful this tornado was. I mean, you can just see how destructive this force of nature of this EF-3 tornado actually was.

I had an opportunity to speak to a resident from one of the Wynne, Arkansas, neighborhoods. Listen to what she had to say about how she's used to tornadoes here but how this one was different.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, we have had tornadoes in Wynne, Arkansas, before, but it was never nothing like this. Never. It ain't never been this big.

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VAN DAM: Unfortunately, Dana and Phil, her neighbor deceased within this particular tornado. And that brings the tornado fatality count from this past weekend storms up to 32.

That is two times - we're working towards two times the amount of tornado fatalities compared to last year. We haven't even entered into the peak season of tornadoes just yet.

I asked the governor of Arkansas yesterday, what role meteorologists have in saving lives here? Hear she told me.

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VAN DAM: (INAUDIBLE) - you could believe that the meteorologists gave adequate warning time for this particular tornado. Do you feel like that saved lives?

GOV. SARAH HUCKABEE (R-AK): Absolutely. There's no doubt that the warnings that came from meteorologists certainly saved lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN DAM: Phil and Dana, you can see that the recovery efforts are well underway. There's an excavator. There have been utility companies on the site. They are busy.

It is going to take weeks, if not months to recover. But remember, we have another threat of tornadoes tomorrow.

Back to you.

BASH: Absolutely heartbreaking.

Derek Van Dam, thank you so much.

And as we have been telling you, former President Trump is in the air right now enroute from Florida to New York where he will soon land tomorrow. Tomorrow, he will be in court to answer to fraud charges.

Our special coverage continues in a moment. Don't go away.

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