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Afghanistan Withdrawal Investigation; Rockets Fired Into Israel From Lebanon; Paris Protests; Tennessee Republicans Set to Vote on Expulsion of Democrats. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:10]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Abby Phillip picks up our coverage right now.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Abby Phillip in Washington, and you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Unprecedented political retribution, that is what is on the agenda in the Tennessee Statehouse right now. All day, protesters have been at the Capitol in support of the so-called Tennessee 3, the Democratic state lawmakers who are on the cusp of being expelled from that chamber. And any minute now, the GOP-dominated chamber will vote on whether to remove them from office because -- get this -- they protested on the House floor, calling for stricter gun laws after the Nashville shooting that left six people dead, three of whom were children.

Now, if the vote passes, it would be the first time in that body's entire history, more than 200 years, that a violation of House rules resulted in members being ousted.

And so, just to recap, these three lawmakers, they may be stripped of their elected positions for speaking out of turn after three 9-year- olds were gunned down in their grade school.

CNN's Ryan Young is on the scene for us.

Ryan, you have been there all morning. And emotions are clearly still running high as this process goes on. What are you learning there from the folks who have taken time out of their day to gather in support these lawmakers?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of people here have been teachers and parents who came here to show their support, not only for the lawmakers, but to ask for some sort of gun control measure.

Look, this entire community is still hurt by the shooting that happened last week. And they think about the kids and the people who work at that school who lost their lives. And that's been part of this conversation. We had more than 1,000 people show up here this morning, braving the rain.

And they're still rallying at this point, because they want the lawmakers on the inside who are having discussions to hear their voices consistently. And they said that's something they wanted to press. But, as I was walking through here, Abby, we saw some of these folks talking to each other just about what's going on.

And I saw Marquez and Peggy.

And I just want to ask you guys, what made you feel like you need to be here, Marquez, today to have your voice heard about what's going on?

MARQUEZ WEST, PROTESTER: Besides being a two-time war vet, it's about my daughters. I mean, I want them to be able to go to school and live a normal life.

It's not normal anymore. And I feel like this -- if I don't teach them what protest is, then I'm not doing my thing as a father. And that's the reason why I'm here today.

YOUNG: And, Peggy, you're -- you're standing right next to him. You guys were having a conversation. I see your sign.

Why did this touch you in terms of wanting to be here with these other protesters, and to make sure lawmakers heard you guys?

PEGGY ZUKAS, PROTESTER: Because Sandy Hook. After Sandy Hook, I thought we would have better gun laws, and we didn't.

And now we have the Covenant shootings. And I feel like I have to stand up more. I got to stand up for the ones who have been murdered. So that's why I'm here.

YOUNG: You told me a story about being a teacher assistant, and the kids reacted when they heard a loud noise in a hallway.

ZUKAS: Oh, yes.

After Sandy Hook, I was subbing a classroom. It was second grade. And, in the hallway, a tray dropped. Normally, when I was little, we would have kind of screamed and giggled and laughed. These kids screamed and looked at me, but they had tears. They were afraid.

And then I almost had tears because they're looking at me: Where do we go? But it was just a tray that dropped in the hallway.

YOUNG: As a dad -- and my last question, real quick -- are you afraid sometimes when you send your kids to school?

WEST: Yes. Honestly, yes. I mean, I have daughters. I mean, this -- it's not the same life I grew up in. Like, it's not.

YOUNG: So, you hear the passion, Abby.

And, of course, we're still watching what's going on the inside, but people coming together to have their voices heard, doing what we should do in democracy -- Abby. PHILLIP: Yes, Ryan, that gentleman, Marquez Young (sic), saying it's not normal anymore I think reflects what a lot of people feel is happening.

Ryan Young, thank you very much.

And we will bring you more on that story as soon as we know what is happening in the Tennessee legislature.

But, first, let's bring in former White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp, and Bruce Oppenheimer. He's a political science professor at Vanderbilt.

So, Professor, I want to start with you, because you are the expert here on this legislative process and all the protocols here.

To the layperson and certainly to someone who's not in the state of Tennessee, this seems really wild. It seems like a clear overreaction. What do you make of it?

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BRUCE OPPENHEIMER, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Yes, Abby, it doesn't follow basic proportionality.

This is way out of proportion for a violation of legislature's decorum rules. It would be like if you were a student -- had been a student in my class, and you had handed in a paper a couple of days late, and you would have expected maybe to be downgraded just a little bit when the grading took place.

But you wouldn't be expected -- you wouldn't expect that you would be failed on the paper, or, even worse, failed in the course, or I tried to get you kicked out of the university. Well, they're at the state of if I tried to kick you out of the university for handing in a paper a couple of days late.

PHILLIP: So, what are some other alternatives that they could have gone to here, short of this step?

OPPENHEIMER: Sure.

In legislatures, there's usually a process where somebody can be reprimanded, or,further than that, a censure where they are called before the body and a formal declaration of censure is read. So, those sorts of things are more normal when there are ethical violations.

To have a violation which would lead to expulsion would require an extreme ethical violation or a criminal penalty, that is, a conviction, for example, a campaign finance violation or bribery, or, in the current environment, some sort of abuse of personnel.

PHILLIP: And you certainly don't have that in this case.

And, S.E., they're being kicked out for basically taking a political stand that Republicans in the legislature just don't like. That seems really extraordinary. And it also seems like, isn't that something for voters to decide?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, these are elected representatives.

And it really shouldn't be up to other Republican House members whether they get to stay or not. They broke rules. And, as the professor said, there is a mechanism to deal with. That is censure. But, really, I want to remind our viewers of three words, legitimate political discourse.

That is what Republicans officially called the insurrection on January 6, 2021, which was violent, which led to multiple deaths and many injuries, and was an attempted crime. They're now calling this an example of an insurrection.

This was peaceful. It was purposeful. There was no violence and there was no attempted crime. So, just when looking at the outrage and the behavior on the right, it's important to remember who these people are and where they're coming from.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, let's take a listen to that moment. This is the Tennessee House speaker, Cameron Sexton, talking about what happened in Tennessee and comparing it to January 6.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

STATE REP. CAMERON SEXTON (R-TN): There were three Democrat lawmakers, one from Knoxville, who basically tried to take over the House floor and cause an insurrection.

What they did today was equivalent, at least equivalent, maybe worse, depending on how you look at it, of doing an insurrection in the Capitol.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Stephanie, to call that revisionism, I think, seems to be a bit of an understatement.

What do you make of how this January 6 mythology is really trickling down into the state level?

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, just to listen to that sound bite again and have him compare it -- people died at the Capitol.

I mean, to compare it to this is -- it's silly. And as both S.E. and the professor said, yes, there's decorum on the House floor. I worked at the House of Representatives in Arizona, and it is important. Decorum is very important. It's how you keep 100 people with varying political differences together to do the work.

However, this is just -- the timing, to say it's terrible is an -- is an understatement. And it's sad, because now the message of what the Democrats were trying to say is completely lost. We're now talking about these Republicans trying to kick these Democrats out. I think the vote hasn't happened yet. I think this is a real

opportunity for the Republicans, some Republicans, to show some grace and say, that's not acceptable, but we're not going to kick these people out. Now let's get to the work of the people.

PHILLIP: And, S.E., Tennessee House Republicans, they already have a supermajority in this chamber. They're going to be able to pass basically whatever they want, including a new set of proposed gun laws that would make it actually easier to own a gun in the state.

Let's not forget that's really what this is all about, is about protesting about the state of gun regulations in Tennessee. So what do you think is the political calculation here, under the backdrop of this horrible murder that literally just happened?

[13:10:05]

CUPP: Such a terrible idea and an example of how not to read the room.

Ryan interviewed people who are -- who traveled to the Statehouse to protest because they are sick of this inaction. And we had Republican lawmakers in the hours and days after that school shooting saying publicly the Congress has no role here and they don't plan to do anything. We just have to live with this.

So, American voters, parents, we're all frustrated. These Democratic lawmakers, I think, were representing their constituents. Again, Stephanie's right. Decorum is important. But there's frustration here.

And so, as Stephanie said, it's a chance for Republicans to give some grace. It's also a chance for Republicans to go ahead and act like Republicans and conservatives. And just because you don't get your way, just because you can't convince a majority of voters to vote for your far right, extremist policies doesn't mean you get to kick them out of office.

And that's what Republicans have decided to do. They're going after democracy. They're making it harder for you to vote, to speak, to protest, to assemble, to read books. This is a party that is really out of ideas. And they were punished in the 2020 election. They were punished in the '22 -- 2022 midterms, and I believe they will probably be punished in 2024 as well.

PHILLIP: Well, we will see also what the voters in the state of Tennessee have to say about all of this, considering that they might be -- their elected representatives might be kicked out of the chamber as a result of all of this.

Professor Bruce Oppenheimer, Stephanie Grisham, S.E. Cupp, all of you, stay with us. This is a developing story. We will be back with you as soon as more develops in Tennessee.

But, for right now, we are also following the chaos in France, as pension reform protests continue for an 11th day. This is video outside of Paris showing protesters hurling paint, smoke bombs at police, who responded back with tear gas. And, nearby, demonstrators stormed the office of the investment giant BlackRock, lighting flame -- flares and chanting anti-reform slogans.

The French government's plan to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64, that's what has ignited similar protests all across the country.

CNN's Melissa Bell is live for us in the French capital.

Melissa, these protests continuing now, into their 12th day, they do not seem to be slowing down.

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all, Abby.

You showed those scenes from earlier this morning. That march that began a few hours ago is now coming to its destination point, which is here at the Place d'Italie in Central Paris.

And you can see there's been quite a lot of tear gas. The air is pretty thick with it. There are flares. You can hear those, the anti- police chants very much directed at the police forces. And that's what we have seen over the course of the day, continuous scuffles along the sidelines of this march. And that is now intensifying here at this destination point.

It's what we have tended to see these last couple of weeks. For many weeks, there had been remarkably peaceful protests, where it had been the unions really ensuring a lot of the security. The police had been relatively restrained.

What we have seen more recently -- and it's happened again today -- is a hardened core of protesters really taking on the riot police. What we have also been seeing these last couple of weeks, Abby, is a change in the techniques of the police, with accusations, allegations of police, a disproportionate use of force by the police.

And that is something that's being investigated. And you can see at scenes like this how tense it can get between the sides, those who are determined to take on the police in the name of fighting this reform and trying to get the government to back down, and the police who, despite the fires being lit there on the center of the Place d'Italie, but all along the march's length determined to try and cause as much disruption to Central Paris as they can, in order to get the government think about it again -- Abby.

PHILLIP: Melissa Bell in Paris, thank you very much.

And still ahead for us: new rocket attacks in Israel. We are live in Jerusalem next.

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PHILLIP: Right now, high alert on the Israeli-Lebanese border after dozens of rockets were fired from Lebanon into Israel earlier today. Israel says many, but not all of them were intercepted. And it has now

closed down its northern airspace. This latest episode comes after Israeli forces stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque, one of Islam's holiest sites, for the second time late last night.

Now, Israeli really police say they entered the mosque after -- quote -- "dozens of lawbreaking juveniles threw fireworks and stones and barricaded themselves inside," all of this happening during a holy period for both Islamic and Jewish faiths.

Elliott Gotkine is in Jerusalem for us.

Elliott, bring us up to speed on where things stand on the ground right now, beginning with the latest round of rocket fire.

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Abby, just this hour, we have received more reports from the IDF that there were three mortars fired from Southern Lebanon towards the town of Metula in Israel's far north near the border.

And this, as you say, followed a barrage of some three dozen rockets fired towards Israel from Southern Lebanon earlier today. That's the biggest barrage since war -- a war between Israel and the Iranian- backed militants of Hezbollah in 2006.

But it's very important to note that Israel, the -- we spoke with the international spokesperson from the IDF, Richard Hecht, and he says that they believe that it was either Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad that was responsible for firing towards Israel from Southern Lebanon.

[13:20:13]

In other words, it wasn't Hezbollah. And that's significant, because, if it was Hezbollah, and then Israel presumably would at some point retaliate, it says that it will decide on the place and time of its response right now. It hasn't responded, contrary to earlier reports.

If it was Hezbollah, and then Israel responded towards Hezbollah positions, then that could potentially see things escalating, perhaps towards the level that we saw the last time there was an all-out war between the two sides in 2006.

The fact that it's from Palestinian factions should suggest that the response will be somewhat more measured Abby.

PHILLIP: All right, Elliott Gotkine, thank you very much for that report.

And for more on this now, let's bring in Dennis Ross. He's a longtime peace negotiator under Republican and Democratic administrations, including serving as a former special Middle East coordinator under President Clinton and a special assistant under President Obama. He's now a counselor at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Dennis, thanks for joining us. First, to start, can you just give us your reaction to what we have seen transpire in Israel over the last two days?

DENNIS ROSS, FORMER U.S. ENVOY TO MIDDLE EAST: Well, look, we are -- we always knew that the reality of having Ramadan on one hand and Passover on the other take place at the same time was bound to create a real potential for violence, especially triggered by those who would like to see violence.

We know that those who barricaded themselves within the Al-Aqsa Mosque last night had the very real purpose of wanting to trigger something. We know what's happened now. It was not Hezbollah that launched these rockets from Lebanon. It was Hamas. And as Hamas is launching from Lebanon, it's not launching from Gaza.

There were a couple that were fired, but they're basically trying to shift the focus. It signals that they don't want a war over Gaza, but they also feel that Israel is constrained by what it can do in Lebanon because of Hezbollah. Hezbollah itself allows Hamas to operate and then claims it had nothing to do with this.

So, all of this suggests that we're at a point where there's a great potential for escalation if one side or the other miscalculates.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, I think, to that point, how likely is it, given where we are right now, that this could spiral out of control? What would that even look like?

ROSS: Israel undoubtedly will respond to the fact that there were three dozen rockets fired out of Southern Lebanon and at least three mortar shells fired into the city, the town of Metula in the north.

So, Israel will retaliate. They will probably try to retaliate in a way that hits only those areas where Hamas was operating. If they hit targets that Hezbollah considers to be theirs, Hezbollah then -- Hezbollah may then decide that they will fire rockets into Israel.

If the two of them begin an exchange, that could easily spiral out of control quickly. Hezbollah can hit Israel with 3,000 rockets a day for several weeks. Israel won't take that. They will end up going into Lebanon on the ground to try to stop that.

So you can see how quickly this could escalate and get out of control. My guess is, neither side wants it to get out of control, so it probably won't be something that escalates that way. But there's clearly a danger. As I said, calculations always seem great when you're in the abstract or in the laboratory.

When real fire begins, a lot of things go out the window.

PHILLIP: Yes, it remains a very dangerous and volatile situation right now.

Former Ambassador Dennis Ross, thank you very much for joining us.

And just in to CNN, we have now learned that the Pentagon is sending its -- to Congress its after-action reports on the 2011 (sic) U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. Now, you may remember that 13 U.S. service members were killed at the Kabul Airport during the evacuation.

CNN's M.J. Lee is joining us right now from the White House.

M.J., what are we learning about this report?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Abby, this is potentially a really significant moment.

As you said, we can report now that the Biden administration is going to be sending to Congress its after-action reports on the 2021 U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. In fact, we expect this to be announced at the White House press briefing, which really is expected to start any moment now.

This would be a detailed examination of President Biden ordering that all U.S. troops be taken out of Afghanistan by the end of August of 2021. And you see those scenes right there, so vivid still, a year- and-a-half later. It was an incredibly chaotic situation. And, as you said, more than a dozen U.S. service members ended up being killed from a bombing attack.

[13:25:00]

And then there were also stories of the chaotic evacuation and some Afghan allies who had helped the U.S. military throughout the war not being able to get out quickly or at all.

So, this is something that we did expect the administration to release sometime in early or mid-April. So, it's not a surprise, but, again, a really significant moment because it could shed some significant light on what went wrong and why things didn't go as planned, because, obviously, this ended up being a big stain for President Biden as something that he oversaw as commander in chief -- Abby.

PHILLIP: And something that Republicans on Capitol Hill are keenly interested in, as they investigate the Biden administration.

M.J. Lee, thank you very much for all of that.

And still ahead for us: a horrific new report into the Archdiocese of Baltimore, at least 600 kids abused over the course of more than 60 years.

The attorney general of Maryland joins us live next.

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