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TN Republicans Poised To Expel Three Democrats From House; Paris Protest Turn Violent; Israeli Defense Forces: 34 Rockets Fires From Lebanon, No Deaths. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone, I'm Fredricka Whitfield in New York. Welcome to the CNN NEWSROOM.

Right now, in Nashville, an extraordinary vote at the intersection of the Second Amendment and the First. Protesters are rallying at the Tennessee State Capitol as three Democratic lawmakers could lose their jobs today for doing this a week ago.

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WHITFIELD: Democratic state representatives Justin Jones, Justin Pearson, and Gloria Johnson using a bullhorn during a gun control rally at the capitol to call for action in the wake of last month's deadly shooting that left three nine-year-old children and three adults dead. The three Democratic lawmakers are accused of breaking house rules. At any moment, we expect their colleagues to vote on whether or not they should be expelled.

CNN national reporter Ryan Young is live for us in Nashville. Ryan, lots of noise is still ongoing. A lot of protesters that were with the lawmakers one week ago are back there today to support these three legislators.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes. We really seem to swell, Fred, in terms of protesters. We had thousands earlier outside, now that you can see this small crowd that's still behind me. Some eventually made it on the inside so they can protest, so those lawmakers could hear their voices.

Let's not lose sight of this. We had a terrible tragedy in this community where we had six people lose their lives, including three children. And so, this is what so many people have been protesting about. Now, the focus is on this decorum issue where these three lawmakers and one of them is that even admitted that they broke the rules, they use the bullhorn, and they said they were trying to bring attention to what's going on in this state. At the same time, this is run by the Republicans, so they have the chance to vote these three out this afternoon. I have a protester with me. His name is Kevin. He's a schoolteacher. You felt though that you needed to be here today. Why did you want to be here and have your voice heard?

KEVIN FOSTER, TEACHER PROTESTING OUTSIDE TN CAPITOL: Well, the three legislators whose expulsion is being voted on today, they spoke for me. And I think that being here was the least -- the least that I could do for them today.

YOUNG: As a teacher, how concerned are you for your students and for where we are as a country with all the shootings that are happening at schools?

FOSTER: I mean, I can barely sleep. I don't know what to say to them when I go to school every day. They asked me if I can keep them safe and I -- I'm -- I lie. I tell them I can but I feel like I can't.

YOUNG: You wanted to be a teacher for a reason. Did you ever think you'll be confronting this sort of situation in our country? I can see the emotion in you right now. What is this like to go to school every day with this concern?

FOSTER: It's just -- it's deeply, deeply painful. You know, it's just -- you just feel powerless. And yes, I -- it's deeply painful.

YOUNG: People -- (INAUDIBLE) -- on the other side may say, look, we can't legislate some of the violence out. But if you could talk to a Republican lawmaker right now to touch their heart, not to yell at them, but to say, what about common sense gun laws that you -- what would you want them to hear from you right now?

FOSTER: I mean, just listen to us. I mean, there's absolutely no reason we should have assault weapons available to citizens in the public. It serves absolutely no purpose, and it brings death and destruction on children, our children.

YOUNG: Thank you. Appreciate your time.

FOSTER: Thanks.

YOUNG: Thank you, Kevin. Thank you.

Kevin's obviously very passionate about his students. There's been a lot of pain out here. On Monday, there was a lot of students here as well. I talked to a lot of parents, who were also very upset.

And you can hear their cries right now. They want someone to come talk to them. We're not sure how this is going to end in terms of any sort of gun laws being passed, but we do believe that with the Republicans in control, this expulsion could happen within the next hour or so. So, when you put all this together, you understand how painful this is for the community, especially after what's happened in the last few weeks. Let's not forget it took those officers that go in and neutralize the threat in terms of trying to put a stop to this.

But somebody questions about will this be the last time or will there be another. How do they move forward? How do they stop it? And teachers like Kevin here are feeling that pain on a day-to-day basis, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes, very emotional for Mr. Foster there and for so many. That's why you've got the dozens of people who are out there protesting really in the name -- mostly, right in the name of protecting children in schools?

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So, I wonder, Ryan, have you learned if there's this feeling that this expulsion is eminent Are those lawmakers, Gloria Johnson, Justin Jones, Justin Pearson, are they saying whether they expect to come out and speak after this vote?

YOUNG: Yes. You know, I think that's the party here, that Republicans definitely have control. And they believe that this could happen. We've talked to several people just around the Statehouse who believe this could finally go down.

And while I'm standing here, Fred, actually, Kevin is still with me. And I just want to walk back over to him because he's still very emotional. And I was talking to Fred about this. If this happened today, do you think this sends the wrong message to the community of these three lawmakers are thrown out of this body?

FOSTER: Absolutely. I mean, they're here to speak for us. And to have them removed and to have the representation that we -- you know, that we need to have our voices heard taken away from us, it just feels like -- I mean, it definitely sends the wrong message. It's anti- democratic. It's just flat-out wrong. They're speaking for us, and we need them there.

YOUNG: Appreciate your passion. Thank you for staying with us for a little while longer.

FOSTER: No, of course. Thank you.

YOUNG: Fred, so obviously, you can hear the voices of the people, you can feel the pain, and then there's the idea of how do we move forward if you can't have an argument. On the other side, there are people who talk about decorum and the idea that you can't just go on the State House floor and do whatever you want, and the only way a body work is if you follow the rules. So, you hear from that side as well. But some people think this is a punishment that might step too far. And obviously, there's a great divide here.

We talked to a teacher earlier. And she was saying people need to stop talking in red and blue and start talking with our hearts. And I think that spoke to a lot of people here because obviously, there are people here who love the Second Amendment. And they're -- and they're obviously going to stick by that. And at the same time, you want people to be able to have both and have school safety as well. So, we'll keep watching this, Fred, and watch what's going on inside to tell you whenever something breaks there. WHITFIELD: And you know, Ryan, while you were talking, we were looking at live pictures inside of the State Capitol and we saw what appeared to be you know, the legislators Justin Jones of Nashville, Gloria Johnson of Knoxville talking at a table. It would be of course wonderful to know what it is that they are talking about. If they are talking about some emergency here, or whether there is any kind of groundswell of support among legislators now suddenly, for them, perhaps those legislators might be listening to the kind of passion outside of the Capitol there.

And then, shortly thereafter, we saw a picture of -- live images of Justin Pearson of Memphis, who was kind of like tapping his heart, you know, and then also raising a hand to the audience there, perhaps an acknowledgment of people who were the -- expressing their support of them.

Is there any feeling -- given the level of emotion here, the passion, is there any feeling that those, particularly Republicans who were dug in about their expulsion, are listening to the constituents there, listening to the protesters, and perhaps rethinking voting for expulsion? I already see you nodding your head. No.

YOUNG: Yes. I haven't seen sort of any break there. Yes, there's speak about decorum. There used to be diplomacy. That's a word that we don't use very often anymore in American politics. Just the idea that someone could walk across the aisle and say, all right, we're going to maybe censure you, maybe they face some sort of fine. That has not been the conversation at all.

And the passion for the folks who are out here, yes, they may feel a certain way. But the lawmakers on the inside had been voted in. This is a Republican-controlled state house. So, if they make that decision to make this move today, that is something that their voters put them in power to do. And that's been part of the conversation here.

I'm not sure I heard one conversation yet that is reached across the aisle, either way, in this. And on top of all that, we are focusing more time on talking about this procedure than we already have, three babies and the three workers who are killed last week. And that's been a big frustration point for a lot of people here.

I mean, they've been begging us to cover this more often. I mean, we've had some people ask us, why are we covering their funerals as well? And I get their passion. And I get their concern about why we haven't been doing that.

But we tried to bring as much light to this conversation as possible. And this is what the focus is right now. They also think somebody's lawmakers are going to get off the hook now and not talk about gun laws in the future.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ryan Young, we're going to check back with you there in Nashville to see when and if this vote is going to happen momentarily. Thanks so much.

All right. I'm also joined right now by a colleague of those Tennessee lawmakers, State Senator Heidi Campbell, who also represents the area where that Nashville school shooting took place.

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And she has just announced that she is running for mayor of Nashville. All right, state senator, so good to see you.

HEIDI CAMPBELL, DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR, TENNESSEE: Great to be here.

WHITFIELD: How do you see potentially this vote playing out?

CAMPBELL: Well, from what we've heard, the likelihood is that this vote is actually going to go through as an expulsion. Of course, we hope that it's different, you know, not that our colleagues don't deserve some kind of, you know, censure or something for what they did. But this is way too extreme of a response for what happens. We have not seen any kind of partisan explosion like this in the House since the 1800s.

WHITFIELD: Because you did hear among those lawmakers, there was an admission that you know, they did break some of the rules. But they also said that they're trying to bring attention to some real response following that school shooting. Are you in agreement with one of the lawmakers who said they thought it was striking that the first action after that Nashville school shooting will -- would be to discipline the lawmakers as opposed to promoting any real change and that would protect school children and teachers?

CAMPBELL: Well, you know, I'm appalled and disappointed by it. I'm not surprised. You know, I think one of the things that I'd love for people that work in sort -- (AUDIO GAP) -- totalitarian regime here. And we often find ourselves in situations where we're not allowed to speak on issues, and that happens a lot more in the House than in the Senate.

But their frustration really just kind of came to a head that day. And I think that they wanted to be able to express the angst and the pain that we were hearing from your former guest that, you know, is just prevalent throughout this. There are thousands of people out there yelling in the hallways that they want something to be done about gun violence.

WHITFIELD: Do you think if legislators went into the chamber with a bullhorn to protest, a less polarizing issue? I mean, you pick what kind of polarizing, less polarizing issue. Do you think that they too would be subjected to this same kind of threat of punishment?

CAMPBELL: You know, Fredricka, quite frankly, I think it just depends on whether there's an R or a D after their name.

WHITFIELD: You think it's strictly -- it's strictly politics?

CAMPBELL: I really do. I think this is very political -- you know. Initially, when this happened, we had a little bit of an inkling, the -- that the controlling party, and they wanted to do something about common sense gun regulations. But that has obviously been overtaken by this situation. And I don't think that they're necessarily upset about that because I think they were in a position where they really did not want to go against the Tennessee Firearms Association and the NRA, and this is a good distraction.

WHITFIELD: We're watching live pictures now, unclear what's being said right there in the chamber. But you know, you represent a lot of the families who sent their children to Covenant School. How is your community doing? What are they saying about what is bubbling up here at the State Capitol?

CAMPBELL: Well, first of all, I mean, our police and the covenant community just did an amazing job of helping families and continue to do a great job of supporting our families through this. What I see in our community is galvanizing. I've been to many house meetings where people are determined to do something about this. And I hope that we have, unlike we've had in past school shootings, a commitment and the resolve to make this last longer than this news cycle.

WHITFIELD: All right. Tennessee State Senator Heidi Campbell, thank you so much. I know you're not going to be too far away because we'd like to be able to draw upon your expertise as we continue to watch these live pictures coming from the state capitol there in your town of Nashville, Tennessee, as we continue to watch and wait about whether there's a vote in which way it goes. Thank you so much, Senator.

All right, overseas now. French President Emmanuel Macron is discussing diplomacy on a state visit to China. But back home in Paris, violent protests are flaring once again over his controversial pension reform plan.

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WHITFIELD: Union workers carrying red flares stormed to the building, that is home to the American investment company, BlackRock, and hundreds more protesters toss smoke bombs and hurled paint at police officers as you see right there.

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For 11 days now, more than 500,000 angry citizens across France have taken to the streets protesting government plans to increase the retirement age from 62 to 64. CNN's Melissa Bell is in Paris watching the unrest. Melissa, have tensions calmed down at all since last we saw you earlier today?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Things are coming to an end here at the Place du Tertre which is where this march ended today. You can see just behind me, the riot police are trying to clear out from the square the majority of protesters, as dusk pulls here over Paris. There have been several fires lit on this square over the course of the last hour, many of them now put out. But now, their aim is to really get the protesters to go home with the hope that that will put an end to some of the skirmishes that we saw throughout the day. Quite a lot of tear gas still hanging heavy over this square, but they're hoping that at this stage, the protesters are going to go home.

What we have just heard, Fredricka, is that this is not over. Beyond today's protest, this is what tends to happen at the end of the big days of protests and strikes. The trade unions announce when the next day will be. We now know that the next day will be next Thursday, just the night before the Constitutional Council rules on the constitutionality of this particular reform. Their plan, they're going to try and get that half million people as they did today out on the streets of France.

And what we've seen over the course of the last few weeks is really a lot more aggressive action on the part of the -- some of the protesters as they try and make their anger known. Every inch closer we get to this reform becoming law, you see these protests get a little bit more tense, a little bit more violent, even if the numbers of people on the street were down compared to last time. A lot of determination -- a determination out there and a lot, Fredricka, of anger targeted at the police and targeted at the person, of the French president himself.

There was something that was very apparent here on the signs today, a great deal of anger about the pension reform, but really a lot of that anger also fueled by inflation, the cost of living. People out there, really determined to carry on making that displeasure known, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Melissa Bell, we'll check back with you there in Paris.

All right. Joining me right now is Catherine Porter, a York Times correspondent based in Paris. So good to see you, Catherine. So, reportedly Paris, rat catchers are among the protesters trying to get the government's attention by throwing rat cadavers at City Hall. Meantime, talks between trade union leaders and the prime minister with -- you know, broke with no resolution. Is it strictly raising the retirement age which is at issue or is there something else?

CATHERINE PORTER, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: I would say there's two things. One is the base issue of raising the retirement age. French people don't like it.

They don't think that they were consulted enough. They don't believe they voted for their president to do this. They have much more appreciation for a work-life balance than I think most North Americans do. And it's incredibly unpopular.

But also, the second, I think prong of people's anger is how it was done. This bill was introduced. There was a shortened debate in both houses. It passed through the Senate and never passed through a vote through the lower more powerful house. And in the end, the government thought that it could realize it didn't have the votes to pass it through the lower house and instead use a constitutional tool to push it through.

Many people think that while the Constitution allows for that, it was deeply undemocratic. They think that this is a reflection of a government that is tone-deaf, completely deaf, doesn't listen to the people. And they fear that it's a sliding slippery slope towards a more autocratic government.

So, there's two things going on. It started as your reporter, Melissa, talk -- you said as a protest against a bill. And now it's part started to focus on the government in the form of the president, Emmanuel Macron.

WHITFIELD: All right -- all right, skipping those layers that the citizens would have much more appreciated at a minimum. Catherine Porter, thanks so much.

Escalating tensions in the Middle East. Dozens of rockets are fired from Lebanon towards Israel. We're live from Jerusalem next.

And new CNN polling offers a stark reality check for President Biden. Ahead, what voters are saying about his performance so far and the question of deserving four more years.

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WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. America's critical ally, Israel, experienced an attack today, the kind not seen in 17 years. And it's all happening during Holy Week for both Jews and Muslims, Passover and Ramadan. 34 rockets were fired from Lebanon. A camera captured the trail of several through the sky.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

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WHITFIELD: And you can see it and hear it. That rocket was intercepted along with most of the others according to the Israeli Defense Forces. But they say five of them did land.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm talking about it and I'm still shaking because it's a -- children not supposed to see this in this age.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear the siren -- I hear the siren. I hear the boom. I was in my home. It was very, very scary.

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WHITFIELD: Israel has now closed its northern airspace, no deaths, and so far, no specific group is claiming responsibility. But no doubt, many are pointing to Israeli police storming the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem Wednesday for triggering today's attack. Hundreds of Palestinians were arrested. Videos show worshippers beaten.

Elliott Gotkine is in Jerusalem for us. So, Elliott, how is Israel going to respond to these rockets fired from Lebanon?

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ELLIOTT GOTKINE, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Fredricka, this is something that Israel is chewing over right now as we speak. The security cabinet is meeting this evening, which defense minister Yoav Gallant as the same defense minister that was supposedly fired about a week ago, but wasn't really apparently fired, he will -- we are expecting to present the options to the cabinet so that it can make a decision on how to respond.

Now, we already have heard from the defense minister saying that he's instructed the defense establishment to prepare, in his words, for all possible responses. And Israeli defense officials have also been telling us that Israel will decide, in its words, on the place and time of its response.

Now, the important thing here is that Israel believes that it was either Hamas or Islamic Jihad that fired these rockets and mortars from Lebanon towards Israel. In other words, it wasn't Hezbollah, the militant group backed by Iran, which holds sway in southern Lebanon. So, that should mean that Israel will probably be likely to retaliate when it does retaliate against the positions where those rockets and mortars were fired from or towards assets belonging to Palestinian groups in southern Lebanon, not Hezbollah.

Because I think what this also shows is that Hezbollah doesn't seem to want a major escalation, certainly not of the sort that we haven't seen since 2006. And Israel would much rather deal with Palestinian militants in southern Lebanon than Hezbollah as well because Hezbollah, of course, is much more heavily armed than Hamas in the Gaza Strip and would make any conflagration that much more serious. But we've heard calls for calm from the United Nation, from the Government of Lebanon as well saying that it's keen on maintaining calm and stability on the border with Israel.

But I think it would be incredibly surprising if Israel does not retaliate in some shape or form. And that is something that they will be mulling over and discussing right now this evening at the meeting of the cabinet, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Elliott Gotkine, thank you so much.

All right. Joining me right now is Aaron David Miller, who helped lead the Middle East negotiations for decades under both Democratic and Republican administrations, and he's now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Aaron, so great to see you. So. you just heard Elliott say, you know, it's likely that Israel will retaliate. In what way do you think that will happen?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Fred, first, thanks for having me. Yes, I think Elliott is spot on. The Israelis are not looking and neither are Hezbollah for a major confrontation and escalation over the Israeli-Lebanese border. These are the first rockets fired since the '06 operation which shut down the northern half of Israel for 30 days and resulted in 160 plus Israeli deaths and over 1200 plus Lebanese killed as well. So, I think the Israelis will respond.

There's also the option of responding in Gaza. Hamas militants had responded with rockets in the wake of Israeli-Palestinian clashes and confrontations on the Haram al-Sharif Temple Mount. It is Ramadan, as you pointed out, it is Passover, Fred. And this is not unusual. Religious sensibilities are heightened and tensions were expected during this period.

WHITFIELD: So, Aaron, that rockets coming from Lebanon is a response to Israeli police storming the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Is there any acknowledgment, you know, from Israel for doing so in that manner? And why does Lebanon feel like this is the best way to respond?

MILLER: Well, it results not Lebanon, Fred. This responding so much to Palestinian groups in Lebanon. And a senior Hamas official was in Beirut.

The real question I think, on the Lebanese picture inside of the story is to what extent Hezbollah had foreknowledge of this operation and acquiesced in it. It clearly is a response to the Israeli police storming the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Again, Israeli extremists were threatening to sacrifice a goat as would have been traditional in the days of the -- of the temple, on Haram al-Sharif Temple Mount, which produced a Palestinian response and the Israelis responded to that.

So, I think the Palestinians want to show a measure of solidarity. It is unusual, however, that it is Palestinian groups in Lebanon that have chosen to respond and it -- even though I think Middle East wars do not happen by accident, they're usually preceded by a train of -- trail of escalation, action, and reaction. It is concerning that the fire came from Lebanon.