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Dueling Rulings Stoke Uncertainty Over Medication Abortion Pill; Biden Administration Vows To Fight Texas Ruling on Abortion Pill; Vice President Kamala Harris Meets With Tennessee Three; DOJ Opens Probe Into Leaked Classified Intelligence Documents; Finland Joins NATO, Doubling Military Alliance's Border With Russia; Report: Baltimore Archdiocese Staff Abused At Least 600 Children; Airlines Cutting Flights Due To Air Traffic Controller Shortage. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 08, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: So each was serving their respective constituency. One more real quick. Here it comes. This is such a lawlessness country when our elected representatives think they can take over any proceeding just by being the loudest because they should be chastised and removed. OK, Rawhide. My god, you're part of the 9 percent. There's someone speaking for those who wanted ouster. Keep voting. Subscribe to the newsletter when you're there, I'll see you next week. Happy Easter.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin the hour with two dueling lawsuits in two separate states, putting the national spotlight back on the issue of abortion rights. In Texas, a federal judge has ruled that the FDA's more than two- decade-old approval of the drug mifepristone should be halted. This is one of the most trusted and widely used drugs for medication abortions. The court did pause the ruling for one week so that an appeal which is already underway can be filed. President Biden vowed late Friday night that he will fight the ruling in Texas.

Meantime, in Washington state, a federal judge moved to protect access to that very same abortion medication across 17 Democratic-led states and the District of Columbia.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Houston for us.

Rosa, walk us through both the judge's order and how we got here. This is a very big story down in Texas where you are.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it absolutely is. And this judge, Judge Matthews Kacsmaryk really didn't hold back in the 67-page order. He ripped apart the FDA's approval of this drug mifepristone, saying that the FDA approval was flawed, that it didn't consider the risks to women and girls.

But let me take you through some of the specific language that this judge used in this order. This judge saying that the FDA's refusal to impose certain restrictions on this drug, quote, "resulted in many deaths and many more severe or life-threatening adverse reactions." It goes on to say, "Due to the FDA's lax reporting requirements, the exact number is not ascertainable, but it is likely far greater, far higher than its data indicate."

It goes on to say, "Whatever the numbers are, they likely would be considerably lower had the FDA not acquiesce to the pressure to increase access to chemical abortion at the expense of women's safety."

Now there have been many medical organizations that have been issuing statements about this, fact-checking what is in this judge's order and also criticizing and pushing back on the judge's safety analysis of this drug. One of those organizations is the American Medical Association. The president of that organization issuing a statement that said in part that this ruling, quote, "flies in the face of science and evidence and threatens to upend access to a safe and effective drug."

It goes on to say, "The court's disregard for well-established scientific facts in favor of speculative allocations and ideological assertions will cause harm to our patients and undermines the health of the nation."

Now it's important to note about these two orders issued by these two judges in two states is that at the center, the center question of these two lawsuits is not the question of whether women have the right to abortion. That was the question that went before the U.S. Supreme Court last summer and the U.S. Supreme court overturned Roe v. Wade. What's at issue here and the questions that are going before these courts are administrative in nature.

In essence, it's a statute that allows the FDA to regulate medications, in this case regulation of the medication mifepristone. So what is going to happen next?

As you mentioned, Jim, the judge here in Texas paused his order for seven days. Now what that means is that there is no impact to access to mifepristone at this moment in time. Now, the U.S. DOJ on behalf of the FDA has filed notice that they will appeal, and they also say that they are reviewing the order issued by the judge in Washington.

As for the plaintiffs' attorneys, they say that they're still digesting the order that was issued by Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk here in Texas.

And Jim, and they're also reviewing the order out of Washington.

ACOSTA: I'm sure they are. Rosa Flores, thank you very much.

Now to the White House, that's where we find CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz.

Arlette, what power does the administration have at this point to fight this ruling coming out coming out of Texas? ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the White

House's first course of action is filing that appeal which the Justice Department did very quickly last night, filing an appeal with the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which some considered to be the most conservative appellate court in the country. President Biden, for his part, slammed this decision from that Trump appointed judge warning about the national implications of the ruling.

[16:05:03]

He said in a statement last night, quote, "This does not just affect women in Texas. If it stands, it would prevent women in every state from accessing the medication, regardless of whether abortion is legal in a state. It is the next big step toward the national ban on abortion that Republican elected officials have vowed to make law in America."

The president also spoke and warned of the repercussions this could have for other drugs that have been approved by the FDA, saying that it opens up other drugs to political and ideological attack. That is a sentiment that was echoed by Vice President Kamala Harris as she traveled back from Tennessee last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is contrary to what makes for good public health policy to allow courts and politicians to tell the FDA what it should do. This is a drug that the FDA approved as safe 20 years ago. It has been proven to be safe for 20 years. So this is a dangerous precedent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: The White House had been bracing for this decision for quite some time with officials meeting over the past few weeks to figure out ways that they can respond, but it appears that their options are pretty limited at this point. One thing President Biden and Vice President Harris have both called for is for Congress to codify Roe v. Wade. The votes simply don't exist to do that up on Capitol Hill.

The White House has already taken very limited action when it comes to abortion protections in the wake of that Dobbs decision, so we will see whether the White House has any further tools they might be able to leverage over the course of the next week, but ultimately they will be watching this appeals process play out and eventually, as many are expecting for this ruling in this case to the head of the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: All right. It seems that's where it's headed.

All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much over at the White House. We appreciate it.

Caroline Kitchener covers the abortion issue for the "Washington Post." She's looked into this Texas judge firsthand. Caroline, thanks again for joining us. We've had you on before to talk

about this issue. And I remember you saying you anticipated that this could happen. You talked about how this was a very real possibility. Walk us through the significance of this ruling in Texas and where it could head next. It sounds like this is heading to the Supreme Court.

CAROLINE KITCHENER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: This ruling is hugely significant. And as soon as it came down last night, I got on the phone with a bunch of different clinics to ask. Like what are you thinking? What are you going to do? And I think the short answer right now, Jim, is just no one has any idea. It's incredibly confusing especially with these two rulings. You know, what are they going to do, what's going to happen next?

And you know it's really unclear what the judge actually has the power to do in this situation because it is so unprecedent. And so, you know, they're really not sure, do we actually need to act, you know, because the judge has said this or after the seven days are up? Are we still waiting for a directive from the FDA? It's all very unclear at this point.

ACOSTA: Right, and President Biden called this ruling out of Texas the next big step in an effort to seek a national ban on abortion. It does appear, Caroline, that anti-abortion activists are trying to find their way towards that ultimate goal.

Is that where it's heading, do you think, in terms of their efforts?

KITCHENER: I mean, I think that is what the vast majority of them want. You know, they see abortion as murder and they don't want any abortions to happen in this country, and I think, you know, it's particularly striking that they are going after the abortion pill. Since Roe v. Wade was overturned that has been I think the answer for a lot of people who need abortions. And states where abortion is banned they have found ways to get the pill because it's so much easier than doing a procedure in a banned state, right? You can you can get these pills relatively easily through the mail.

And so antiabortion advocates have really identified this as a major problem for them, and they are grasping for any way that you can to crack down on the pill. And this is really the best way I think that many of them can imagine.

ACOSTA: Right, and we just saw Vice President Kamala Harris speaking out on this a few moments ago. Many prominent Democrats have come out and slammed this ruling out of Texas. Yet a lot of Republicans have been silent on this. Why do you suppose that is?

KITCHENER: Well, I think that people have seen how popular abortion rights are at the polls. I mean, just this week in Wisconsin, there was another victory for abortion rights in the Wisconsin Supreme Court. So Republicans are paying attention to that. I think that's pretty clear and they know that this is a popular issue, and people are carrying women voters in particular are coming out for this, and so I do think that a lot of Republicans are trying carefully.

[16:10:10]

ACOSTA: All right. Caroline Kitchener with the "Washington Post." You've been following this nonstop. Thanks so much for your coverage. We appreciate the time. Thanks again.

KITCHENER: Thanks for having me.

ACOSTA: All right.

In Nashville today, they are known as the Tennessee Three, state lawmakers, all Democrats, targeted by Republicans for leading a raucous but peaceful protest on the House floor in the statehouse there. They were demanding gun reform after the school shooting in Nashville that killed six people, including three 9-year-old students. The two expelled lawmakers Justin Pearson and Justin Jones are black. Gloria Johnson, who was white, she kept her seat by just one vote. That fact, though, has only added to the anger in Tennessee and across the country in response to these expulsions.

CNN's correspondent Isabel Rosales joins us with more details.

Isabel, it sounds as though the Tennessee Three, they're not taking this lying down and they're making some moves to get back in the statehouse. A lot faster than maybe some of their Republican colleagues might have thought possible. What can you tell us?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, there's certainly a lot of interest into the next steps for the Tennessee Three or rather the two of them who have been expelled from the House. And to get answers into what's next, we look to the Tennessee constitution, which demands that a special election must happen because we are over a year away from the general election of November 2024. But in that gap between now and the special election, it also indicates that the local legislative government for the expelled lawmaker's county has the power to also appoint an interim successor.

So right now really the focus is on filling these two vacant positions in the statehouse and the districts for Pearson and for Justin Jones, they are exploring these next steps, and that could also mean reappointing these same people and sending them back to the chamber.

Now we've seen on Friday support from the White House in the form of Vice President Kamala Harris, meeting privately with the Tennessee Three, also speaking before a crowd, calling for gun reform, for making the laws tighter when it comes to perhaps background checks or red flag laws, and also criticizing the Republican dominated House. Take a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: It wasn't about the three of these leaders. It was about who they were representing. It's about whose voices they were channeling. Understand that. And is that not what a democracy allows?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) HARRIS: Democracy says you don't silence the people. You do not stifle the people. You don't turn off their microphones when they are speaking about the importance of life and liberty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: Mickell Lowry, the chairman of the Shelby County Board of Commissioners, says that they will not discuss Pearson's situation before their regularly scheduled meeting on Wednesday. But if they do get a quorum, they will schedule a special meeting to discuss that.

Meanwhile, we're also looking ahead to Monday in Nashville, the metropolitan council there anticipating big moves when it comes to Justin Jones. So that's his district. They're anticipating nominating him, then voting to suspend the rules which prohibit nominating and appointing somebody during the same meeting.

And if that succeeds, Jim, then they will vote to appoint Jones. Now they will need a supermajority, according to Jeff Syracuse, a council member, he says that's 27 out of 40 council members will have to approve Jones.

And he does say to me, Jim, that they do have the numbers. It appears that they do have the numbers to move forward. But again that vote on the suspension of the rules that will be a big thing to look to on Monday. If they don't pass that then it's possible that this appointment takes longer in the form of a week to April 18th before they can appoint Jones -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. It will be fascinating to watch as well. I was talking to a Tennessee Democratic source earlier today, who said that the votes are certainly there for Jones, and so we'll see. That's going to be very interesting to watch.

Isabel Rosales, thank you very much.

How do Tennessee Democrats respond to the expulsion of two of their colleagues? I'll talk to one of the leaders of the House caucus for the Democrats in the Tennessee statehouse. That's coming up. But next, a trove of classified U.S. intelligence documents posted on social media, everything from the support from the U.S. for Ukraine to information about allies like Israel.

Plus flying over the holidays was not easy and it may not get any easier this summer. Goodness. We're talking about delays, cancelations, potentially.

[16:15:03]

You're going to want to watch this coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The Department of Justice has a very serious and sensitive new investigation on its hands. The DOJ now looking into leaks of classified U.S. Military documents that were shared on social media, some of the materials were marked top secret. That's the highest level of classification. The leaked documents covered everything from U.S. support for Ukraine to key information about U.S. allies.

CNN's Kylie Atwood joins us now.

Kylie, what more are we learning? It sounds as though these documents are very sensitive.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, as you said, Jim, some of these documents are marked top secret. That's the highest level of classification in the U.S. intelligence system. And so obviously it's really concerning to U.S. officials who are now trying to go through these documents, understand, you know, what exactly is in them, we still don't know the source of them.

[16:20:03]

So these documents appeared on social media sites over the course of the last few weeks, and they gained some attention this week. The first documents that gained attention had to do with U.S. support for Ukraine, the Ukraine war plans, and so U.S. officials were asked about those documents and they said that they do appear to be legitimate U.S. documents.

The other documents that we have just gone through in the last 24 hours or so that have to do with a widespread number of issues, you know, related to China, really related to Israel, related to the United Arab Emirates, those are the documents that the Pentagon says that they are still reviewing at this time. And so we don't know if those are all legitimate documents.

But when you talk to U.S. officials, they say that they look like they are. So this is an incredibly alarming situation. It's still unfolding in terms of what kind of damage assessment the U.S. government will make as a result of this leak.

ACOSTA: And what are U.S. officials telling us about these documents, where they might have come from? I suppose there's plenty of speculation. Do they have any best guesses at this point, or is it still just too early on in this investigation?

ATWOOD: Well, it is really early on, but I think it's interesting to look at the actual documents themselves that have appeared on social media because what it looks like is a crinkled-up piece of paper that someone took a picture of and they have markings, as I said, of top secret on some of them. Some of them have markings of the office in the Pentagon that actually advises President Biden.

So these are as close as it gets to, you know, the highest level of U.S. secrets, and when you talk to U.S. officials about these documents. Obviously they still say that they're doing an overall assessment to see if any of the documents had been altered when they were put up on these social media sites, but they do say that they do look legitimate.

ACOSTA: And do we think this was a hacking of some sort? Could it have been leaked out by U.S. intelligence partners? Somebody inside the intelligence community or inside the Defense Department, perhaps? Any sense of that?

ATWOOD: Yes, I mean, all of those are possibilities. As I said, we just don't know the source right now. But when it comes to U.S. intelligence, the United States shares intelligence with four other countries. Together they are known as the Five Eyes partners. So it's the U.K., Canada, the U.S., Australia and New Zealand. So those are some of the countries that would have shared some of this highly classified U.S. information.

But when you look at these documents, some of them have markings that indicate that there was information in them that wasn't shared with any of those partners. Even those close U.S. partners. So what that indicates is that if they came all from the same source, we don't know if they did, but it appears that they were all kind of dropped in similar drops here that that would have come from someone or something that gained access to the U.S. intelligence system, and not those of our partners.

But of course, our partners are just as alarmed by this as U.S. officials are. They're doing their own damage assessments right now to try and figure out, you know, if any information they shared with the U.S. is now linked into the public eye -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Kylie Atwood, thanks so much. Really appreciate the reporting. Thanks again.

Let's get some perspective on this. We're joined now by retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, a former commander of U.S. Army Europe. He's also senior adviser to Human Rights First.

General, great to see you. What's your take on these leaked intelligence documents? This does not happen very often. And so when it does happen, it has to be a big concern, not only for the U.S. intelligence community, but as kylie was talking about a few moments ago, major U.S. allies, major U.S. partners?

LT. GEN. BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. ARMY EUROPE: Yes. Great reporting by Kylie. Obviously, this is very damaging. You know, you never want your enemy to know what you know or how you got it, so this will reveal the depth of penetration and a lot of information that we had. And of course, one of the keys to good intelligence is being able to share with other allies, other organizations, and so this will damage some of the trust, you know, that's necessary to have this good intelligence sharing.

I expect the investigation will eventually sort of figure out, you know, where did it come from, or how did they get out, but it does once again remind us of the vulnerabilities we have and probably some holes in our systems. I can't count the number of times I had to go through online training about preventing just this kind of thing. And so at the end of the day, it's usually about training and discipline.

ACOSTA: Right. And these documents are similar to a batch of classified documents about Ukraine that have been circulating online in recent weeks, which U.S. officials on Friday morning confirmed to CNN to be authentic.

[16:25:10]

Some of the documents which include estimates of Russian casualties and a list of Western weapons systems available to Ukraine were apparently posted on social media in March. Ukraine believes Russia is behind this purported leak.

What do you think, General? I mean, could this jeopardize Ukrainian forces on the battlefield? How serious is it for what's happening in Ukraine?

HODGES: Well, you know, the Ukrainians, of course, are super disciplined. They've always been reluctant to share information. We've always known more about Russian forces than we did Ukrainian forces. And so I think they will -- they'll have done an assessment and figure out what they need to do. But they're also, the Ukrainians are agile enough to be able to turn this to advantage perhaps.

You know, having information does not -- if you're not able to use it somehow, it's not necessarily going to be so damaging. So I think the Ukrainians will be smart enough to figure out how to address this. I don't see it as a terrible change for them. The biggest damages on the trust that we have with our allies.

ACOSTA: And I want to switch to Ukraine. Ukraine's energy company today said that over 1200 Russian missiles and drones have been used to attack the country's infrastructure, utility infrastructure, saying 43 percent of its main power grid has been damaged. I mean, I guess we thought about this as a possibility heading into the cold winter months. What does this say about the Russian tactics during a vulnerable period like the winter?

HODGES: Well, I think it showed the desperation of the Russians. The fact that as many missiles as they have launched, drones, missiles rockets, different types of platforms, the fact that they really never could not Ukraine off the grid and Ukrainians -- I'm from Florida. You know, we're good at recovering after hurricanes. But the Ukrainians became very proficient, rapidly reestablishing their power grid.

And I think that the -- I think British intelligence is reporting that the frequency of these attacks by the Russians is actually beginning to decrease either because they realize that it's a total waste of precious resources or maybe, you know, they are running low and they're worried about needing them for later.

ACOSTA: And General, I mean, there was so much in the news this week that this story did not perhaps get as much attention as it warrants, because it's such a monumental shift. But Finland officially becoming a member of NATO this week. Apparently, Sweden also wants to join the alliance. I mean, this is a huge message being sent to Vladimir Putin. Isn't that right?

HODGES: So this will be added to the list of gigantic strategic mistakes by Vladimir Putin. Finland was a committee -- non-committed, non-aligned nation. Sweden, longtime neutral nation, both of them because of Russian actions have applied to the alliance. Finland has been successfully ratified and assessed. I anticipate I'm actually optimistic that Sweden will also be able to join.

I mean, ideally, this happens before the NATO summit in July in Vilnius, but this is a primarily to Turkey, and Turkey, as you know, they have elections coming up in May. President Erdogan, my sense is that he's using this as an opportunity for domestic purposes which would not make him unique, by the way, but it also highlights the fact that we, the United States, and the West have not had a long-term sustained strategy for the Black Sea region, and have not always appreciated Turkey's concerns.

I don't excuse any bad decisions or bad behavior by our Turkish ally. But the fact is they have concerns about a terrorist organization and I think between Turkey and Sweden, the United States and Secretary Jen Stoltenberg, I feel confident that they'll eventually get this done. Hungary, of course, I think it's hiding behind Turkey, perhaps to continue to curry favor with the Kremlin, but they'll drop that immediately after Turkey has ratified Sweden.

But it does, Jim, remind us of the fairy tale that has been coming out of the Kremlin for so long about their security concerns.

[16:30:00]

They took all the troops that they had on the border up in northwestern Russia, facing Finland, and they're and they're using them in Ukraine.

So this when I hear people say, oh, we should negotiate with Russia and take into account their legitimate security concerns, that's a total fairy tale, and the safest part of Russia was always parts that touch NATO.

And now, because of what they've done, the part of NATO that touches Russia has just doubled.

ACOSTA: Yes, it's a massive border between Finland and Russia. Lots of moving parts.

Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, thanks for sorting it all out for us. We really appreciate the time. Thanks so much.

HODGES: Thanks for the privilege, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, thank you.

And there are startling new accusations that hundreds of children were sexually abused by Catholic Church officials in Baltimore. Next, a closer look as we talk with an abuse survivor who now helps others deal with the trauma of sexual abuse.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:01]

ACOSTA: A bombshell report from the Maryland attorney general confirms the sexual abuse of at least 600 children by members of the Archdiocese of Baltimore.

The investigation found 156 people, including clergy members, seminarians, deacons, teachers and other employees, engaged in the abuse over six decades.

David Lorenz joins us now. He's the Maryland director of SNAP. That's the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

David, thanks so much for being with us.

What was your reaction to this report? The level of abuse that is outlined in this report is really extraordinary.

DAVID LORENZ, MARYLAND DIRECTOR, SNAP: Yes, it's really -- it's brutal, right? It's not unity. It's not just your -- sadly to say, you're running the milk out of abuse. It is sadistic and ritualistic and sacrificial child abuse that's detailed in some of these things.

My reaction is really across the board. There's a sense of vindication after you've been called, you know, a liar by the church. And you don't -- you can't get any institution to even acknowledge what's happened.

You can't get the justice system to acknowledge it. You can't get the legislative system to acknowledge it. Nothing seems to knowledge it.

And so now we've suddenly got the attorney general, the Justice Department basically, acknowledging that what happened to Maryland survivors is, in fact, true.

In fact, now, you know, they're documenting it. They're saying this really did happen, and we really weren't lying all this time.

But there's a -- but there's -- but there's the flip side, which says there are 600 child victims, are adult -- adult child victims out there. And we don't -- we belong to a club that we really don't want any more members.

And that's 600 represents probably one-tenth of the actual number.

ACOSTA: Yes. And the Archdiocese of Baltimore paid more than $13 million to the abuse survivors. That money doesn't begin to repair the trauma, obviously, the victims sustained.

What are you hoping to see next in Maryland? I suppose the money doesn't solve the problem, though, does it?

LORENZ: No, no, no. No, it doesn't. I mean, I myself have got a settlement. My abuse occurred in Kentucky. And it doesn't. It doesn't solve it. You live with this all of the time.

You look -- it is part of my life. It's something I will never get out from under. I mean, there -- there is -- you know, most of the time, I live a pretty normal life. But it -- this thing comes back and bites me every once in a while.

And there are, for some survivors, it is more than once in a while. They turned to risky behavior. They turned to addiction to get out from the pain, just deaden the pain.

So there's addictive behavior. There's alcohol abuse. There's drug abuse. And they need help. And this -- any kind of financial help would be good in helping them with the -- with the addiction.

But you can't ever get over it. People -- I get survivors call me and they ask me, when will you ever get over this? I said, I'll let you know how long it takes when I finally get over it.

ACOSTA: And, David, I remember covering the child sex abuse scandal of the Catholic Church back in the early 2000s. I mean, this has been going on --

LORENZ: Right.

ACOSTA: -- these revelations have been coming out for decades now. What is going to make it stop?

LORENZ: I don't know. Until -- until there's a reckoning within the church. I don't know.

You know, you -- this is a different kind of abuse than we see at other organizations. When you look at the Boy Scouts, the -- you know, the Larry Nassar case with gymnastics, the --what happened at Penn State.

This is a very sadistic, like I said, ritualistic, satanic statistic, type of abuse and -- which didn't, at least as far as I'm aware of, didn't happen if there's other places.

And the bishops knew about it. And for some reason, they chose not to do anything about it. In fact, they actually enabled them.

And until they come to some kind of reckoning -- what drew those kinds of people to the priesthood and what drew those kinds of people to be bishops in the church that allowed them to keep going, that until they come to the understanding of what that is, they'll never get through this.

ACOSTA: Yes.

LORENZ: You know, it's not just indifference in dioceses around this country. They've had studies in -- you know, revelations in Germany, France, Ireland, Australia, everywhere, all around the world.

ACOSTA: Yes. Well, David, we appreciate you speaking out on this. And of course, it's a story we'll continue to follow. And I know you'll stay on top of it as well.

[16:40:02] David Lorenz, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

LORENZ: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

ACOSTA: All right, thank you.

Three years after the start of the pandemic, travel is back. But a number of airlines are cutting flights this summer. The reason why, next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: If the warmer weather has you thinking about the summer travel plans, you may want to listen to this. Several U.S. airlines are now cutting flights at major airports this summer.

This, after the FAA warned that a shortage in air traffic controllers could cause a wave of delays and cancelations.

CNN's Pete Muntean joins us now with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: This is a big admission by the FAA, trying to avoid cancelations and delays this summer by having airlines scale back on the number of flights into some of America's busiest airports.

American Airlines says it's going to do it. Delta and JetBlue both say that they are considering it.

The bottom line here is this air traffic control shortage means that passengers will pay.

[16:45:06]

(voice-over): The latest challenge for your next trip --

(CROSSTALK)

MUNTEAN: -- is not enough air traffic controllers to keep flights moving.

In a new notice, the Federal Aviation Administration is allowing airlines to scale back summer service at New York's three main airports, warning staffing shortfalls could amplify delays by 45 percent.

RICHARD SANTA, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS' ASSOCIATION: We need more controllers.

MUNTEAN: Richard Santa, of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, says staffing shortages swelled during the pandemic, due, in part, to retirements and a hiring freeze. A union analysis shows the number of air traffic controllers has

dropped 10 percent in the last decade. The FAA says, nationwide, two in every 10 controller jobs are empty.

A key air traffic control facility in New York is roughly one half staffed.

SANTA: We are critically staffed in most of our air traffic control facilities.

MUNTEAN: The new admission comes after airlines delayed more than a half million flights last summer and put some of the blame on the FAA.

SANTA: It was tight before the pandemic ended. They don't have enough people today, and they need more.

BILLY NOLEN, FAA ACTING ADMINISTRATOR: We are continuing to hire.

MUNTEAN: FAA Acting Administrator Billy Nolen says the agency plans to add 1,500 new controllers this year and 1,800 next year.

The agency says, last June, it was flooded with almost 58,000 applications to become an air traffic controller, though it's training academy remains backlogged.

The relief can't come soon enough for airlines and passengers with another huge travel rush on the horizon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The system doesn't have the capacity. We don't have enough air traffic controllers.

MUNTEAN (on camera): American Airlines says it's contacting passengers who will be inconvenienced by those scheduled changes. Delta and JetBlue both say they'll decide later this month what schedule changes those airlines will make.

There is one way out here for the airlines to try and make this less inconvenient for you, a procedure called "up gauging" where they swap out of flight with a larger airplane.

But really, this all comes down to less convenience for passengers, meaning fewer seats and maybe higher fares.

Pete Muntean, CNN, Reagan National Airport.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Up next, the violent protests in France. Will things settle down anytime soon?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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[16:51:45]

ACOSTA: This week, protesters in France took to the streets for another round of demonstrations. Clashes with police turned violent as they have now for weeks. You'll remember they're protesting President Macron's decision to raise the retirement age in France.

And Benjamin Haddad joins us now. He's a member of France's National Assembly.

Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

What do you think? Do you think these protests will change the outcome of pension reform taking effect in France or is this -- this is going to happen no matter what happens at these protests?

BENJAMIN HADDAD, FRANCE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY MEMBER: So you've seen the government is determined to move forward with this reform. This is something that President Macron campaigned on during his presidential and parliamentary campaign last year.

We knew this would be an unpopular reform, but it's a necessary one. And, you know, let me explain why we have a pension system in France that is intergenerational, where distributed, basically, current workers pay for current pensioners.

It's a welfare system that we're very attached to, but we want to preserve it. And when you have changing demographics, when people live longer, then the best way to balance it, to be able to save it in the long run is for people to work a little longer.

This is what all of our European neighbors have done. And this is what we're doing this year.

We know it's an effort to ask for people to work longer. So we know it's always been unpopular to reform the pension system. But it is necessary.

It's also necessary to be able to pay for other major aspects of our social system, such as health or education. And this is why the president campaigned on this.

ACOSTA: All right.

HADDAD: He knew it would be on everybody. He needed a mandate to be able to have the legitimacy to do so.

ACOSTA: And, but, Mr. Haddad, President Emmanuel Macron, as you know, he forced this reform proposal through the National Assembly without a vote. Was that a mistake, do you think?

HADDAD: No, I don't think so. It's a constitutional tool that we have. The Article. 493 of the constitution was used 100 times over the last 50 years. And it's when you have a blocked parliament, like we've had here, where we have a relative majority and no opposition parties. Including the ones that campaigned on this for years, said, we do need to increase the retirement age, to be able to balance our system, decided not to support. Maybe because you know, they saw that it would go against the polls.

We had the courage to campaign on this. And I think the president was raised to push forward on this. It's a constitutional tool, like the presidential veto in the United States.

But I think you know what's necessary now is to move forward. The president has asked the prime minister to reach out to the unions, to the moderate opposition groups in parliament --

ACOSTA: All right.

HADDAD: -- and see how we can build forward with a constructive reform agenda.

ACOSTA: Mr. Haddad, I want to ask you, a lot of Western countries, as you know, including the U.S., are dealing with this issue of funding problems plaguing government retirement programs for senior citizens.

Are there any lessons the U.S. and other countries like the U.S. and France, they should take away from what is taking place right now in your country?

HADDAD: You know, what's been so interesting to watch in these debates, I think, is that a lot of the anger, a lot of the opposition that we've seen in the streets, in the protests or in the debates, have been a proxy for a lot of other things.

[16:55:06]

For a feeling of declining social and public services on health, education or transportation, of a question of purchasing power.

The question of the relationship to the meaning of work, that, of course, has been exacerbated by Covid in the U.S. and France and many of our Western economies.

And I think now the challenge for us moving forward is to address a lot of this discontent that we have heard on all these various issues and build a positive agenda with the oppositions and with the unions.

ACOSTA: All right, Benjamin Haddad, I know it's very late there in Paris. Thank you very much for your time. We appreciate you joining us. And we hope things settle down there in Paris. We thank you so much.

HADDAD: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right.

Two black Democratic lawmakers kicked out of the Tennessee state legislature because they protested for gun reform. But they could be right back in their seats very soon, sooner than you might think. The latest just ahead.

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