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GOP-Led TN House Expels Two Black Dems Over Gun Reform Protest; Rival Rulings On Medication Abortion Fuel Legal Uncertainty; Senate Majority Leader Blasts Republicans Over Pill Ruling; Last Surviving Nuremberg Prosecutor Dies At 103; Dueling Rulings On Access To Medication Abortion Pill In U.S.; Official: Trump Pleads Not Guilty During Tuesday's Arraignment; California's Snowy Winter Offers Hope For Drought-Stricken State; DeSantis Threatens Disney With New Taxes, Tolls. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 08, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:27]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with the tempers flaring in Nashville where emotions are raw and the politics much like the rest of the U.S. bitterly divided. Republicans in the state house there voted to expel lawmakers for breaking decorum during a raucous but peaceful protest demanding gun reform. That protest ignited by the Nashville school shooting that left three adults and three young students dead.

How the expulsion vote ended has only added to the anger. Representatives Justin Pearson and Justin Jones, who are black, were expelled. Their fellow protester and colleague Gloria Johnson, who was white, kept her seat by one vote.

CNN correspondent Isabel Rosales joins us now with the latest. Isabel, what happens now? I guess there is some hope that these two lawmakers who were expelled might get their seats back.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And that is certainly a very real possibility here, Jim. Right now the spotlight is on filling those two vacant state house seats. And what we're seeing is local lawmakers in Jones' and Pearson's district working to figure out what the next steps are here.

The Tennessee Constitution does empower them to appoint an interim successor up until the point that a special election can happen. So it's very possible that we're barreling here into a situation where these ousted lawmakers are appointed right back to their seats.

Meanwhile political tensions are rising. Hendrell Remus, the chairman of the Tennessee Democratic Party, he says that Shelby County and Memphis the district for Pearson, that they are facing a political retribution here due to the idea of reappointing Pearson.

Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENDRELL REMUS, CHAIRMAN, TENNESSEE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Political retribution from this Republican supermajority is something that we're worried about every single day.

I'm concerned, especially with accounts coming out of Memphis that there are threats by this supermajority to withhold funding for projects that they have in the works for city and county government. This Republican supermajority is a government overreach at its all time high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: So if these two lawmakers are reelected well, according to the state constitution, there's a sort of double jeopardy rule at play here, where they can't be expelled for the same behavior twice.

Meanwhile we do have a statement from the Tennessee House Republican caucus, saying that if Jones and Pearson are re-elected, that they hope quote, "they will act as the thousands who have come before them with respect for institution, their fellow colleagues and the seat that they hold".

Jim, we're also keeping a very close eye at Memphis and Nashville. On Monday, Nashville, the metro council will be holding a special meeting there where they hope to not only nominate, but also to appoint Jones, Representative Justin Jones.

We're told by a council member that they do have a supermajority. They have the numbers to do that. We'll see.

ACOSTA: All right. Isabel Rosales, thank you very much.

And joining us now, Tennessee state house member John Ray Clemmons, a Democrat representing the Nashville area. Representative Clemmons, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

You posted this tweet Thursday night that caught our eye after the votes expelling your fellow lawmakers Justin Jones and Justin Pearson. You said this. "The people's business was not done today, a political party's was. It's a sad day for our state and our democracy."

What was it like being present for those votes? I saw your speech in the -- in the house there. You were pretty fired up about it. What do you think, can the damage be healed there -- there in Nashville after what happened?

JOHN RAY CLEMMONS (D-TN) STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I certainly hope so. You -- what you saw was my outrage just by being a witness to injustice. You know, when I lost my cool there a little bit that was because they called the question procedurally.

You know, they tried to silence us at every turn. And here we were having a trial to expel members who had become frustrated that their voice was being silence. And then they did the exact same thing during the trial to expel them.

And so I obviously lost my cool. But, you know we have got a lot to accomplish here. We have to work together to address the root cause of all of this frustration on everyone's part, which is the gun violence that's plaguing our country.

[17:04:54]

CLEMMONS: So you know we we've got to work through this. You know, I'm -- I look forward to welcoming my members back as soon as our local governments reappoint them and working towards solving the real problem plaguing every community across the state and the country.

ACOSTA: And Chairman Clemmons, as you know your colleague, Representative Gloria Johnson. She's a white lawmaker who also took part in this protest. She was not expelled.

She suggested that race had something to do with that. I think she talked about the color of her skin and the skin of her colleagues, Jones and Pearson. Do you think that factored into this?

CLEMMONS: Well you know, I'm not going to just look into anyone or tell you what's in anyone's heart. But I certainly will say it is fair to judge people by their actions and their words.

And so it definitely doesn't look good. I mean, everybody has seen the tapes. They saw the questions about the sponsors of the resolutions. But again, I think, it's up for people to judge for themselves. I am certainly have that -- share that concern with a lot of people.

ACOSTA: You're concerned that that might be -- that that might have been a part of this.

CLEMMONS: Well I would hate for that to be their motivation, and I'm not going to speak what's in their heart, but you know what we did. I made the closing argument on the floor on Representative Johnson's resolution, and I asked each member to judge each of those members individually by their own respective conduct.

And you know, Representative Johnson didn't use the bullhorn. She didn't hold a sign, didn't yell or pound on the desk. And so her case was a little bit different fact-wise, but you know if that's the reason they voted against her resolution versus another reason, I can't speak to that.

I'm not going to speculate as to what is anyone else's heart, you know, but I think if you look at the words and the actions of my conduct -- of my colleagues conduct over the years, it's certainly a fair question.

ACOSTA: And Representative Clemmons, both Representatives Jones and Pearson could be reappointed to their seats by county officials until there is a special election and they could run for the same seats, presumably in a special election.

Would you like to see that happen? And do you think that they could be back in their seats fairly quickly?

CLEMMONS: Yes. In fact Representative Jones could be back in his seat on the house floor when we convene on Monday evening by 5:00 p.m. Our local metro council here in Nashville has called a special meeting.

They'll have two procedures to reappoint him back to his seat. And then I think you know, we get those documents, the certified documents to the house clerk from the courthouse in time for session. We'll swear him in and have him back in his seat by 5:00 on Monday.

Now Shelby County and Representative Justin Pearson is a little bit different. That's a little bit different situation down there and a different makeup of their local government.

But these are two incredibly bright, strong voices that we need in our house Democratic caucus. As the chairman of the house Democratic caucus I value their voice and everybody across Tennessee certainly does as well. We need them back where they belong in the offices to which they were duly elected.

ACOSTA: And as you know, there's a Republican supermajority in the state house there in Tennessee, and I'm just curious after this kind of action. How do you move forward with your Republican colleagues? And I have to ask you this because some of your Democratic colleagues have made this observation that this was an attack on democracy itself in the state of Tennessee. Do you view it that way?

CLEMMONS: Absolutely. I had -- the tweet you read earlier. It was a sad day for democracy. Democracy was violated.

You know they -- they kicked my colleagues out for breaking a simple house rule of going to the well without permission. That's it. When you look at the reasons for expulsion, we've only had three members expelled since the civil war in Tennessee legislature. They're very egregious conduct.

Yet they tried to expel three of my colleagues in the House Democratic caucus. They're simply going to the well without permission, and it was a violation of the rules before we went into recess for maybe anywhere from 4 to 15 seconds. That wasn't really proven.

That is, I think it's fair to say a minor infraction. You know, why they really kicked them out -- you know, that's up for debate, but I think it's pretty clear, you know, a violation of democracy almost doesn't do what happened justice (ph).

This is a serious, serious threat and what we have here in Tennessee is one party rule. And they have just become drunk on power, it's extreme abuse of power. We continue to see it over and over again, and this is just the latest example of their abuse of power.

They think they don't have anyone answer to but let me tell you, the people of Tennessee are rising up and I'm proud of the Gen Z, Gen Y -- they are standing up and speaking out. They're not going to take this.

And I look forward to the rest of this year and the coming years and heading into 2024 because I think we're going to see some people stand up and vote and make change in the state of Tennessee as a direct result of this.

[17:10:01]

ACOSTA: All right. Tennessee Democratic lawmaker John Ray Clemmons, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

CLEMMONS: Thank you for having me, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, and now to the battle over abortion rights in this country. Two dueling decisions are creating a flash point in the battle over abortion. In Washington State, a judge ordered the federal government to protect access to the drug mifepristone in the 17 plaintiff states and the District of Columbia. This is one of the primary medications used to provide abortions.

Meanwhile in Texas, a federal judge is halting the FDA's more than two decade old approval of the very same drug. The move is fueling outrage among Democrats all the way up to the White House. President Biden, Vice President Harris both vowing to stand with abortion rights supporters.

And CNN's Arlette Saenz is over at the White House for us.

Arlette, this is an issue that the White House has had to comment on before and they're having to do it again.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are and the White House was bracing for this decision from this Texas judge and President Biden has vowed to fight the decision every step of the way.

That is why the Justice Department moved very quickly last night to file its appeal for this case with the Fifth Circuit court of appeals, which is one of the country's most conservative appellate courts.

Now President Biden in a statement warned of the national implications of this judge's ruling. He wrote quote, "This does not just affect women in Texas. If it stands, it would prevent women in every state from accessing the medication, regardless of whether abortion is legal in the state."

He added, "It is the next big step towards the national ban on abortion that Republican elected officials have vowed to make law in America."

Now, this case, this ruling -- neither of them deal with the question of whether there is a right to an abortion. That was something that was central to the Dobbs decision from the Supreme Court last summer.

But instead these two cases are really dealing with this administrative facet of how the FDA regulates mifepristone, that abortion medication drug that judge down in Texas, ultimately ruling and suspending that FDA approval, saying that the process was flawed and that it didn't take into consideration some of the risks that it could pose to women and children. Now President Biden has also warned of what this could mean for other

FDA approved drugs, saying that they could be vulnerable to political and ideological attacks. They will wait to see how this appeals process plays out.

But it's also worth noting that that Texas ruling does have a seven- day pause to allow the federal government to appeal it. Ultimately many experts believe that these two cases will ultimately make their way to the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: Certainly seems the case.

All right. Arlette Saenz thank you very much.

The top Senate Democrat is calling out Republicans over the ruling. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer today on the phone with reporters urged Republicans to speak out against what he described as the right wing MAGA judge from Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: This is an awful, extreme and unprecedented decision. Let's be clear. This is about the Republicans' goal of a nationwide abortion ban. We all know that the MAGA extreme wing of the Republican party has always been for a nationwide ban. But now all the rest of them follow and do nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Some pretty tough talk there from Chuck Schumer.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now.

Alayna, what are Republicans saying in response to Schumer and I guess this ruling in general, are we getting a lot of comments or they a little reluctant to weigh in just yet.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, so far, there's been no response in reply to what Chuck Schumer had to say today. And that's been really indicative I'd say of the broader reaction to this ruling.

Democrats immediately seized on this and began railing against the court's decision. And some Democrats like Senator Ron Wyden and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez even went so far as to say that President Biden should ignore it altogether.

Now Republicans meanwhile, and Republican leadership have been virtually silent on this issue so far, and that is something that Schumer pointed out on his call this morning.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHUMER: I think the Republicans know that these -- their decisions -- the Dobbs decision, this court decision are wildly unpopular with the American people. They're probably at least in some of the survey data unpopular with a large number of Republicans.

So what -- they are afraid to speak out, but that is outrageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So I will argue that Schumer's press call was on a Saturday, so I don't think many Republicans were actually paying attention to what he had to say.

But I will argue that he made a very valid point, which is that this is very tricky territory for Republicans to navigate abortion in the wake of the Dobbs decision last year had -- abortion isn't a winning message for them. And we saw that very clearly during the 2022 midterm elections.

[17:15:00]

ACOSTA: And did -- was there any mention of taking any legislative action on this on the Democratic side in the Senate if this ruling where to go into effect somehow? What are you hearing?

TREENE: Well, they're going to try. I mean, Senator Schumer said that Senate Democrats remain committed to passing the Women's Health Protection Act, which is a bill that would preserve access to abortion nationwide.

But that bill failed last year and is likely to fail again just given the balance in Congress. Democrats have a very slim majority in the Senate, and Republicans control the House, so it's essentially dead on arrival.

ACOSTA: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

And programming note, stick with us. In our next hour, I'll be joined by Democratic Senator Dick Durbin to talk about this issue and other pressing matters. Stay tuned for that coming up in about an hour from now.

How soon might the Supreme Court deal with these competing rulings? That's next.

Also ahead, new insight into how Disney outmaneuvered an effort to take it to the Magic Kingdom as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis lost some of his political magic in his fight with the Mouse House.

And later just days after Taiwan's president met with U.S. lawmakers, China's military starts what they say are planned exercises around Taiwan.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:16:13]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: We want to focus more now on those two conflicting abortion rulings that came back late last night. In Texas, a Trump-appointed judge ruled the FDA's decades old approval of a drug used for medication abortions should be halted.

And less than an hour later, an Obama-appointed judge in Washington State ordered the federal government to keep the same drug available in 17 states plus the District of Columbia.

And CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig joins us now. Elie, what do you think? Where does this go next? I mean, Arlette was saying a few moments ago that this is likely to head to the Supreme Court. It just seems that's where it's heading.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is absolutely destined for the Supreme Court, Jim because now we have what we call a circuit split. You have two different courts and two different circuits of the country who have issued conflicting and contradictory rulings that cannot be reconciled.

You have this judge in Texas who has said, I hereby order that sales of this medication be suspended nationwide. At the same time, about an hour later, we have a different federal judge in Washington State, saying, I hereby order that this drug remain available in the 17 states plus Washington, D.C. that brought this lawsuit.

You cannot reconcile those two things. This is a classic case that will make its way up to the Supreme Court.

ACOSTA: And that again puts the Supreme Court right smack dab in the middle of one of the most sensitive hot button issues out there, and they may ultimately decide whether or not this medication is going to be available to women.

Is that essentially where we are?

HONIG: I think that's where we're going to come out. And if you look at the Texas decision here, a couple of things that are really important to note.

First of all, if you're wondering how on earth could this judge overturn essentially the FDA approval when the FDA approved it 23 years ago, and it's been approved since then, you're asking the right question.

ACOSTA: Right.

HONIG: It is a very shaky, questionable legal decision by this judge. I think it's sort of a picture of what some people call judicial activism. He's inserting his own medical judgment. He's not a doctor. He's a judge for the FDA, and he's saying basically, I know better than they've known for the last 23 years, and that should -- let's note that covers Republican and Democratic administrations.

So I think there's a real legal weakness here. But it will ultimately be up to the Supreme Court. We know they overturned Roe v. Wade last year, but I should say there were some indications in the Dobbs decision that we may not have the same 6-3 outcome on this separate question of medication.

ACOSTA: All right.

And Elie, obviously we have to ask you about what took place earlier this week with former President Donald Trump. You know, it feels like a year ago, but it was just about four or five days ago.

But I have to ask you about, you know, the Georgia investigation into Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election and the broader special counsel probe into his conduct. They're relying on similar evidence, including a very small pool of witnesses. A lot of this coming down to Mike Pence, Mark Meadows -- the same kinds of witnesses.

As a former prosecutor yourself, can that be perilous to have investigations that are very similar for both of the special counsel Jack Smith and Fani Willis, the Fulton County D.A.

HONIG: Yes Jim. It was a remarkable week as remarkable and unprecedented as the proceedings in Manhattan are and were. We need to keep in mind, there are, I think bigger and even more pressing investigations happening both in Georgia, which is investigating Trump's effort to overturn the election results in Georgia and also by DOJ.

And as you know, there is definitely some overlap here because DOJ is looking at Trump's actions in the lead up to January 6th.

You do have to be careful in this scenario. This happens sometimes with prosecutors -- different prosecutors looking at the same thing. Ordinarily, what you do is you would get together and do what we call deconflict. You would say to the other prosecutor's office. Hey are we looking at the same witnesses here? How are we going to share them? Who's going to use them first? Are we going to make sure that they're saying the same thing to both of us.

Now that there's no evidence that that has happened, as between Fani Willis and DOJ. But if they don't do that they do run into certain potential peril if these witnesses start contradicting one another.

ACOSTA: All right. Something to keep our eyes on.

Elie Honig, great to see you as always. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, Jim. All right.

ACOSTA: All right. In a story that's near and dear to Elie's heart, the last surviving war crimes prosecutor from the Nuremberg trials has passed away. During World War II Benjamin Ferencz liberated several concentration camps in Germany. Then at the age of 27 he was named chief prosecutor in the case against 22 Nazis for crimes against humanity.

[17:24:51]

ACOSTA: It was his first court case. After two days he rested the case and won. The men on trial committed roaming SS extermination squads, killing an estimated one million people.

In an interview with CNN last year, Ferencz compared the war in Ukraine to what he saw in World War II.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN FERENCZ, FORMER NUREMBERG PROSECUTOR: But to see it happening again. Very similar kids being shot, homes being blown up. It pains me to see that we have learned so little from the Holocaust and from the trials. And I hope that we will come to our senses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Benjamin Ferencz was 103 years old.

Just a few moments ago, we talked about the legal impact of the abortion rulings, but the issue is already making some waves and politics as well. We'll discuss that next with John Avlon and Margaret Hoover. That's coming in just a few moments. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:05]

ACOSTA: Dueling decisions on one of the main drugs used in medication abortions. First came the ruling by a federal judge in Texas, scrapping FDA approval for the drug, Mifepristone.

But less than an hour later, a federal judge in Washington state ruled to protect access to the drug in 17 Democratic-led states and the District of Columbia.

Those two decisions are the most significant abortion ruling since the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus wade, as we all remember, last summer. It sets the stage for abortion rights to be a leading issue in the 2024 campaign.

And talking about this more with us, joining us now, CNN's senior political analyst, John Avlon, and CNN political commentator and host of "PBS Firing Line," Margaret Hoover.

Guys, great to see you as always. We appreciate it.

John, you know this issue really motivated Democratic voters in 2022. But it seems to be a battle that a lot of conservatives want to keep having, even though it might not be the best thing for their own political health. What do you think?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the message to voters they keep seeming to send as it's the extremism, Stupid.

(LAUGHTER)

AVLON: I mean, you know, this is -- Republicans have a significant win from their perspective in removing a constitutional right to an abortion.

But most voters look at this and say 70 percent of Americans believe it should be safe, legal and rare, basically in line with the previous status quo.

And yet. taking the wind, they -- they're judges keep, you know, taking down an abortion pill, pushing for a national ban on abortion. That's the position that some maximalist in the Senate have taken, some people running for president.

And so there's a sense that this goes against common sense and individual freedom in a fundamental way where people feel a right has been taken away.

So as long as Republicans keep pushing for a maximalist position, you're going to see a pushback from folks who had previously been sound on the issue because they thought it was some law, which it was until three Supreme Court justices reverse themselves.

ACOSTA: Yes.

And, Margaret, I mean, last year, it was described as the dog catching the car, but it seems like they want to keep catching the car.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Jim, there is no issue. I think even Donald Trump and Republicans are more in denial about the negative effects this is having on the party and their viability to win elections at the state level, at the federal level.

I mean, this issue when -- when Roe v. Wade was overturned, for example, and we went on to see really the bloodletting of the 2022 fall election cycle results, which should have been a tidal wave of Republicans into the House of Representatives and it turned into what became five.

Not a single editorial, conservative editorial page, not a single conservative commentator was able to admit or recognize that -- and we have now data to prove that it was the Roe v. Wade overturned.

It was the Dobbs decision that overwhelmingly impacted the women coming to polls, suburban women coming. And there are some Republicans who are willing to recognize that publicly, very few.

Representative Nancy Mace, from South Carolina, for example, or a pro- life Republican, who's willing to say this position is killing the party.

But there's a stranglehold on the party with this one is with this one issue. The special interests simply cannot let go of its chokehold.

And that's -- Republican are going to keep losing if they're not able to meet the country where it is.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: -- pisses people off about politics. Yes. ACOSTA: Yes. And, John, I mean, speaking of that, in a different state, in Tennessee, the decision to expel those two young black lawmakers who were taking part in a protest over gun regulations, gun reform. Representative gloria Johnson, who is white, she survived expulsion by one vote.

I tried to ask a fellow Democratic lawmaker earlier this hour about this. He didn't want to go down that road and say, well, it was because of race that these two were expelled while she was not.

What do you think? I mean, it just doesn't -- it certainly feels like that. It's certainly played a role in it. It played a part in it. I mean, how can you deny it?

AVLON: But that's what she said on CNN the other night.

ACOSTA: Yes.

AVLON: So you know, I'll take her word for it.

But again, it's an example of self-defeating politics on the Republicans' part where they elevated these two young men. They will probably be put back in the state legislature. There's a reasonable good chance for that.

But it's also about this creeping frustrated reluctance to embrace representative democracy.

I mean, you've got, you know, a city, a town in the state reeling in the wake of a horrific mass shooting at a school. And instead of taking any action at all, they try to punish the lawmakers who were protesting with people outside.

That's about shutting down debate, not being responsive to people's needs.

[17:34:59]

HOOVER: And for a party that's going to wrap itself in the constitution, the constitution and legislative branches, as designed by the founders, are, by definition, designed for the process of bargaining and negotiation, for having an opinion and having that opinion refuted.

These lawmakers spoke their mind, had a peaceable protest, peaceably assembled, as the First Amendment says that you can, and their speech was shut down. They were punished for it.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: That is not -- that is not how the constitution is supposed to work.

AVLON: Are you saying it's not a free speech issue?

(CROSSTALK) AVLON: Just checking.

HOOVER: -- it sounds like cancel culture, but to the extreme.

ACOSTA: Yes.

HOOVER: And I am sorry. I mean, I just only because if I don't work -

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: And the emotions were so raw. The emotions were so raw in Nashville. I mean, it's -- I mean, one would think it would be easy to understand why some folks would want to protest and some state lawmakers might want to join those protesters.

I mean, that, to me, I think I kind of got lost in this whole thing is this terrible, terrible, awful tragedy that took place in Nashville. Of course, people are going to be fired up about that sort of thing.

But I want to ask you about one more thing, guys, and that is, I mean, there's so much that has happened since last Tuesday. It feels like maybe a couple of years ago, but it was just a several days ago that Donald Trump became the first current or past president to be indicted and arraigned.

And I just wonder, doesn't this continue to be good for Trump in the party and the Republican Party but terrible in the general election?

HOOVER: Well, it is like - I tell my husband, I'm doing a side eye right here --

(LAUGHTER)

HOOVER: -- because I saw him make-up fight.

The truth is, you're right, Jim, this is good for Trump and the party. It has solidified his front runner status for the Republican nomination right at the moment.

I mean, that's what's happened. These are $7 million in the last week, 25 percent at least of those dollars are new dollars.

And the base of the Republican Party seems to really be rallying around him and doing an us-against-them, you know, the Department of Justice rule of law against Trump. It's a bizarre turn of events, but it's real.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: Yes, it's a reaction. It's a reaction. Let's be real about that.

And to your point about, you know, Trump's resurgence being, you know, a poison pill for a general election, what CNN's new poll is showing only 26 percent of Independent voters support approval of Donald Trump. Over 60 percent thought an indictment was justified. Only 8 percent

said it was had had no merit at all.

Those are Independent voters who end up making the decisions in general elections.

So you know the party -- you know, he may thrive on the oxygen of attention. But if that moth keeps going to that flame, it's going to be burnt to a crisp.

ACOSTA: Right. And with other potential indictments coming, other trials potentially coming down the pike, I can't imagine that the numbers you just mentioned, John, heading in the right direction for Trump and the Republican Party when it comes to a general election campaign.

John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, great to see as always. Thanks so much.

AVLON: Thanks, Jim. Stay well.

ACOSTA: All right, good to see you.

Still ahead, from nearly no snow to a potentially record-breaking pileup. Will California's wild winter help the Golden State avoid more severe drought this year?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:19]

ACOSTA: Play has been suspended yet again at the Masters tournament thanks to persistent heavy rains. So the third round must be completed tomorrow before the final round can begin.

In fact, three trees fell near spectators -- did you catch this -- at Augusta National yesterday. Luckily, no injuries reported.

Golfers tried to make it a go-for-it earlier today and a sea of umbrellas showed up in the spectator's gallery -- look at this -- before play was called off for the rest of the day.

But there was some good news for Tiger Woods. He made the cut earlier today, qualifying for a record-tying 23rd consecutive time at the Masters. Unbelievable.

Meantime, what a difference a year makes. In California, the Golden State saw its snowiest winter in decades, but officials wonder how much it will help in the state's long-running drought.

CNN's Stephanie Elam has more from the beautiful Sierra Nevada mountains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS PAINTER, CEO, AIRBORNE SNOW OBSERVATORIES, INC: Now we're going to see it in snow.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From almost nothing to record-setting snow depths --

PAINTER: 127.

ELAM: -- California's current snowpack in the Sierra Nevada is one of the largest ever, one that couldn't be more opposite from last year.

PAINTER: Ah. This is the fourth-wettest in terms of snow water content going back to 1941.

ELAM: The snowpack, which the state says accounts for about 30 percent of its water supply in an average year, measure at the depth of more than 126 inches for an astonishing 221 percent of the April 1st average near Lake Tahoe. Melted down, that's the water equivalent of 54 inches.

April is generally when the snowpack hits its peak before the spring melt-off and is, thus, the basis of the state's water supply forecast.

PAINTER: There have only been three other years where our April snowpack has been greater than 200 percent of average in April. Our statewide automated snow sensory network is reporting 237 percent of average.

ELAM: In stark contrast, only 2.5 inches of snow were measured in April 2022, containing the equivalent of just one inch of water, a paltry 4 percent of the April 1st average.

According to the U.S. Drought Monitor, less than 2 percent of the Golden State is in severe drought, the lowest it's been in about three years. Compare that to 2022 when large swaths of the state were in severe or extreme drought.

PAINTER: We've never had a snowpack this big.

ELAM: To get a more accurate picture of how much snow California is under, Airborne Snow Observatories flies over the mountains, providing its findings to the state's Department of Water Resources.

PAINTER: We measure snowpack, wall to wall, over mountains from aircraft using lasers and spectrometers. And from that information, we can then know the full distribution of how much water there is in a mountain snowpack and also how fast it's going to melt.

[17:45:12]

And that's allowed us then to change forecast errors from being pretty large to very small, and really dramatically changed water management in the west.

ELAM: Look at ASO's imagery of the Tuali Basin (ph) near Yosemite Valley at this time last year. There's barely any snow.

Now look at this year. The bright yellow, showing most of the same area buried under more than 10 feet of snow. That's nearly 640 percent more snow than in 2022, painter says.

PAINTER: The central and southern Sierra and, in particular, the southern Sierra, are just crushing the record.

ELAM: But these scientists say, despite the deluge of moisture this wet season, drought concerns haven't dried up. This is proof that western weather patterns are changing.

KARLA NEMETH, DIRECTOR, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES: Even though we have this extraordinary snowpack, we know that the droughts are getting deeper and more frequent. And that means we have to use water efficiently, no matter what our hydrologic conditions.

PAINTER: God knows what we're going to have next year.

ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: The skiing was great this past season.

All right, still ahead, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis vows all options are on the table as his feud with Disney gets heated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Disney has always viewed itself as being exempt from that constitutional process. Well, those days are over here in the state of Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:51:07]

ACOSTA: New fuel in the feud between Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and Disney. In two consecutive appearances, the governor is vowing to hit back hard after Disney moved to limit the power a DeSantis-backed board will have over the company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESANTIS: Now that this has been reopened, all options are on the table.

We're going to look at things like taxes on the hotels. We're going to look at things like tolls on the roads. We're going to look at things like developing some of the property that the district owns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN's Steve Contorno has been following this for us.

Steve, it sounds like the governor is really escalating this battle with Walt Disney. STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, Jim. And this goes all the

way back to last year when DeSantis signed that bill that limited the instruction of sexual orientation and gender identity in schools.

Disney objected to it. DeSantis didn't like that. And so he went after their special government taxing districts in central Florida.

Now, fast forward to this year, DeSantis had claimed victory in this fight when he put forward a bill that basically gave him power to install a bunch of political allies to oversee this district.

But it turned out, at the same time, DeSantis was saying there was a new sheriff in town, Disney had pushed through its own agreement with the outgoing board that basically said all the power this board has is now in Disney's hands.

So this that's where we are this week. And we heard not just from DeSantis but also from Disney's Bob Iger, who had a conference call this week with shareholders and had some pretty choice words for the governor's actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB IGER, CEO, WALT DISNEY COMPANY: And so our point on this is that any action that thwarts those efforts simply to retaliate for a position the company took sounds not just anti-business, but it sounds anti-Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now, Jim, not only has DeSantis made these threats that you played earlier, but he has also called for an investigation by the state's inspector general. So we have that to look forward to as well.

ACOSTA: And, Steve, I have to imagine there are a lot of Republicans not only in Florida but nationally who are wondering, why is Ron DeSantis getting in a protracted battle with Mickey Mouse?

But let's take a listen to how DeSantis reacts to the notion that he was outmaneuvered by Disney. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESANTIS: The media, you know, trying to get spun up about Disney trying to do these agreements, you know, very quietly right before we took control, and they're acting like somehow that they that they pulled one over on the state.

They can keep trying to do things but, ultimately, we're going to win on every single issue involving Disney, I can tell you that.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, Steve, how much does the fact that DeSantis is considering running for president raise the stakes in this feud?

Because I mean, I would think that, you know, there are Republicans who are looking at this and saying, OK, initially, this was a way for DeSantis to flex his muscles, but it's sort of backfiring on him a little bit in the view of Republicans.

CONTORNO: That's right, Jim. And it can't be understated how central Disney is to DeSantis' political narrative.

It occupies an entire chapter of the book he just put out. I think the first mention of Disney is on page two. He talks about this battle he's had with Disney at nearly every political stop he makes.

But that also begs the question, how did he allow Disney to have this maneuver sort of right under his nose while he was so fixated on the company?

When I talk to people who know Disney well, they say DeSantis should have always seen this coming. Both of the meetings that took place where they pushed through this agreement were in the public. They were noticed in the local newspaper.

I talked to one Disney historian, named Aaron Goldberg, who had some pretty interesting quote. He said business -- he said, "You spend all that energy and attention on Disney and then no one minds the store? Disney was playing chess and DeSantis was playing checkers."

[17:55:09]

And we're also hearing from some of DeSantis' potential rivals who have always been critical of this move. But now they're starting to poke fun of it as well -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. We'll keep watching this one.

Steve Contorno, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Actress and activist, Eva Longoria, is proud of her Mexican roots. Here is a preview of the next episode of her great CNN original series "SEARCHING FOR MEXICO."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVA LONGORIA, ACTRESS: This was me when I was little, you all. My dad would have me and my sisters peeling the corn. There'd be worms inside sometimes. That was a fun surprise.

And we would have to fill all of these baskets and we would go sell the corn. Just the yellow one.

(voice-over): Sell it on the side of the road.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(LAUGHTER)

LONGORIA: Unfortunately, Enciano (ph) takes me up on the offer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No money to work.

LONGORIA (on camera): Oh, my gosh.

(voice-over): Now I've got to keep up with the hardcore 82-year-old as we clean the corn.

(on camera): Oh, yes. This is a great workout.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LONGORIA (voice-over): I sure worked up an appetite. And as luck would have it, Enciano's (ph) wife, Antonia, is making a traditional Zapotec farmer's breakfast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And don't miss an all-new episode of "EVA LONGORIA, SEARCHING FOR MEXICO" tomorrow night at 9:00 on CNN.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)