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Police: Four People Killed, At Least Nine Hurt In Louisville Bank Shooting; Soon: Justice Department Asks Appeals Court To Freeze Judge's Order That Could Make Abortion Pill Unavailable Starting Friday; Nashville City Council Votes On Reinstating Ousted Lawmaker. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 10, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in New York. Welcome to the CNN NEWSROOM. We're following a developing story, a mass shooting shattering a peaceful morning in downtown Louisville, Kentucky.

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WHITFIELD: A gunman opening fire as a bank was preparing to open. Four people are dead, nine more were wounded and transported to a nearby hospital. Officials say that police exchanged gunfire when they confronted the shooter. Two officers were hurt in the gunfight. The shooter died at the scene and it's unclear if he was shot by police or by himself.

Witnesses described chaotic moments. People were running for cover, some inside the bank even hiding themselves in a vault for safety. And investigators say the gunman was working alone and may have been a former employee or some connection with that bank.

President Biden and Attorney General Merrick Garland have both been briefed. Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear revealing that two of those killed today were close friends. We're expecting another update in a press briefing in the next hour.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is here with more on what we're learning about the circumstances, all the events that took place. And the shooter, what do we know?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's the big question, the shooter. You know, obviously, police have identified the shooter. They know who this individual is. There's some connection to this bank, former employee, current employee. But that's a really important key fact because there seems to be -- right now, the theory is some kind of argument, disagreement, disgruntled former current employee, so that's a big key here. But what's so significant in all of this, Fred, is the fact that it took police just three minutes to get to the scene. And even still, that was not enough to save those lives. Four people were killed. Listen to the police chief there describing the officers' response.

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PAUL HUMPHREY, DEPUTY CHIEF, LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: It is clear from the officers' response that they absolutely save people's lives. This is a tragic event. But it was -- it was the heroic response of officers that made sure that no more people were more seriously injured than what happened.

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PROKUPECZ: And, Fred, the police chief there also said that the officers encountered gunfire immediately when they arrived on scene. There was an exchange of gunfire. Two officers were injured. One of them is in critical condition. So, we're waiting for an update on the officers' conditions.

Several people still remain in the hospital. The hospital says at least three have now been discharged, so some good news there. But obviously, the big question is going to be what led up to this and were there any signs that were missed by you know, friends, or family or people who knew this individual because time and time again, we keep seeing these stories where there were sort of things going on in a -- in a shooter's life.

And also, the other thing that we've learned is that the weapon here used according to our John Miller was that it was a AR-style -- AR-15 style weapon. Of course, something that we see time and time again in mass shootings.

WHITFIELD: And when you look at the video, I mean, obviously a lot of shattered glass, it's unclear. Do we know if all of the shooting activity took place inside the bank or did it come out on the street as well?

PROKUPECZ: It's a good question. We don't know, right? It appears that there's broken glass in the -- in the bank. And it's not clear if that's something police broke to get inside or if that was because of the -- there's the footage of that now, or if that happened because of the exchange of gunfire. But we know that employees were hiding in the vault.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: You know, there were -- seems like there were a lot of people at work already. This happened around 8:30 a.m. The bank opens at nine. So, the other question is how did he get access to the bank?

So, if it's a current employee, it makes sense. If it's a former employee, maybe someone let him in. So, hopefully in the next hour here, Fred, we'll get some of those answers. WHITFIELD: Right. A current employee possibly knowing the vulnerabilities of how to enter or perhaps passwords in order to enter, being able to have access. Period. All right, Shimon Prokupecz, keep us posted as you learn more information. Thank you so much.

All right. Joining us right now on the phone is Kentucky State Senator Gerald Neal. He represents the area where this shooting takes place. So glad you could be with us. How are you doing? How is the community doing?

GERALD NEAL, DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR, KENTUCKY (voiceover): Well, it's a shock as you would imagine for all of us. And first, I'd like to express my deep -- not only my deep sadness but my condolences to the families whose live had been lost and as well as those who are struggling for life. So, this is quite a shock to us all.

WHITFIELD: I mean, tell me about the area if you could. I understand that this bank is located on the lower level, and above it, might be some offices, workspace, even residences.

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NEAL: Yes. You wouldn't really expect anything to happen at this location. This is right off the downtown business district. It's an area that's been developed, in fact, has been developed and is very well done. This is surprising that would even happen there. But it did happen.

WHITFIELD: Yes, sadly, it did happen. I mean, no one wants, you know this to be happening not in any town -- state. But do you see that this will, in any way, be an impetus to reshape any firearms laws in your state, reshape the discussions that you might be having?

NEAL: Well, I certainly would hope so. I mean, of course, in a winning state that you know, has refused to pass a Red Flag Law you know, that allows you to identify and at least remove firearms for those who have indications that they would use them. We have laws that permit constitutionally anybody to carry a gun concealed anywhere they want to, except perhaps in a government building.

We have laws that they've been rejected even as to safety for children, those who own legally owned firearms that do not store them properly, and others are injured and are killed because of some child or someone else who can have access to them. So, this is not a state that's friendly to those who would think about gun reform in that area or gun control in some way or even reasonable as you might consider gun steps that we could take in terms of restricting them. This is not that state.

However, the effort continues. We will continue because the evidence is obvious that if we don't take steps now, we actually are complicit in these outcomes. There's already data that shows that there's certain things you can do that minimizes or at least compromises or mitigates gun balance to a certain level. And we're just talking about a part of it here. We're not talking about that everyday gun violence that we all know and experience in our -- in our communities. WHITFIELD: Well, talk to me more about how you think this is going to be an uphill battle because Kentucky, as you mentioned, it will -- it is a state too that adopted the law in 2019 under Governor Bevin for it to be a permitless carry state. Not even at the time the Louisville Metro Police nor Kentucky State Fraternal Order of Police liked that idea. So, how much of an uphill battle do you believe it's going to be given the current state of affairs, the sequence of shootings taking place, not just Kentucky, but really across the country for it to be impetus to have more discussions that actually turn into some sort of action?

NEAL: So, let me give you this indication. There are bills that were presented that would allow students over the age of 21 to carry on campus -- on college campuses. There was legislation that required or at least permitted the age for carrying a gun from 21 to 18, the Lord's age.

They pass legislation this past -- this last legislative session to prohibit state and local law enforcement agencies and other public officials from enforcing any federal power on bans or regulations enacted after January 21. They'd be charged with a crime and face termination from jobs. Just think about it. We depend on the collaboration efforts between state and federal law enforcement with respect to preventing gun violence and gun trafficking, but yet Kentucky takes this step.

You know, I think it'd be an uphill battle. I think the history shows it. I think the current mood and the actions of the legislature does not indicate that there's going to be any easy rollover on this particular piece. But I think the effort must continue. We'd be remiss if we did not do this and we'll be complicit as well.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Is it fair for me to assess the frustration in your voice?

NEAL: I think you are assessing it properly.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

NEAL: We're frustrated, bad. I'm mystified bad in one instance. But then again, the cynical side of me says well, you know, you should understand this. I mean, you got gun lobbies out here. You got the business interests involved in this. You know, people, they have their individual aspirations that transcend those of 80 other individuals in conflict.

I mean, if you put all that together, it will create frustration. But that is a reality. But guess what. There are people who will not give up on this. We're going to appeal to those that could understand that we should do better.

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Even the public generally, if you look at the percentages, will demonstrate to you that people want reasonable common sense of gun control. They want, for instance, everyone to be able to each register guns naturally. So, I mean, I think there's an opportunity to do that because I think the general consensus is that we should do something in this area.

WHITFIELD: All right. State Senator Gerald Neal, appreciate your time. And we are all collectively saddened for your community.

NEAL: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining us right now is CNN -- former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis, and CNN contributor and writer for The Trace, Jennifer Mascia. Good to see both of you.

Commissioner, you first. You know, still -- you know, lots of questions that need answering about this shooting, including how this shooter who police say did have a connection to the bank was able to get into the bank before was open to the public. What kind of tools will police be using to get some sort of timeline?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good afternoon, Fredricka. That is going to be the first order of business with the police putting together exactly what this individual did, how he gained access to the building, and what his motivations were. You know, in private security, there's a concept called adversarial terminations. And we work on these all the time. And that's when an HR department or chief people person will reach out knowing that they're separating an individual from their company.

These can be traumatic moments for people. And it sometimes results in violence at the termination or this kind of a follow-up incident. These can be mitigated with the proper planning and the implementation of security protocols to do things like keeping this person out of the bank after he's been separated from the service. Those are the kinds of things that you hope people will pay attention to and the police will be paying close attention to.

WHITFIELD: Jennifer, you've written extensively about gun violence. We see, you know, that we've been seeing in the U.S. Police say the shooter had a connection with a bank. And Kentucky is a permitless carry state, as you heard in that conversation I just had with the state senator, but it wasn't always that way. What changed?

JENNIFER MASCIA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Republican lawmakers in 2019 argued that if more people are carrying guns, we'll see fewer shootings like this. Unfortunately, the numbers don't really seem to be bearing that out. According to CDC figures the year before permitless carry was 2018. Between that and 2021, gun deaths as a whole are up 25 percent. And gun homicides are up 75 percent between 2018 and 2021. So, we're kind of seeing the limits of this argument that having more guns around are going to reduce shootings.

There's always going to be places where people can't carry guns. That's a reality. Unless we have gun stations in every aspect of civilian life, that argument really falls short.

Kentucky does permit checks. They do background checks on people with concealed carry permits every month. In 2019 when permitless carry passed. That was a real protection against people who shouldn't have guns that were lost. So, we don't have that anymore. You can buy a gun from a stranger in Kentucky, and there's no record of it.

WHITFIELD: Wow, that's a pretty powerful difference. Commissioner Davis, you know, police say that -- you know, they exchanged gunfire as soon as they arrived on the scene, getting there about three minutes after the call came in. What do you make of how the officers were able to handle this and you know, the number of officers that responded as well?

DAVIS: Well, when a call like this goes out, it's an all-hands-on-deck situation. Anybody in the immediate area, people will drive in from quite a distance to get there to help out. So, this -- I'm not surprised at the -- at the number of officers involved.

But really what was remarkable about this was the speed with which they made entry. What they did we refer to as a dynamic entry. They needed to use sledgehammers, from what I understand, to knock the windows out and to get in after these bad guys, or this bad person, the person -- the shooter.

And, you know, I got to tell you. It appears as though there were bullet holes in one of the adjacent plate glass windows, which to me means that they will probably facing gunfire as they made that entry. Those -- the bulletproof vests that officers carry are no match for an AR-15, those bullets rip right through bulletproof vests.

So, the officers who were there were risking their lives. They know that better than anybody. And they did a fantastic job in getting in there quickly and neutralizing the threat.

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WHITFIELD: Jennifer and Commissioner, we just received a statement coming from the White House. And in the statement, the White House says, once again, our nation is in mourning after a senseless act of gun violence. Jill and I are praying for those killed and injured in the tragic shooting in Louisville, and for the survivors who will carry grief and trauma for the rest of their lives. And he goes on to suggest that -- and say, it's long past time that we require safe storage of firearms, require background checks for all gun sales, eliminate gun manufacturers immunity from liability, we can and must do these things now.

That statement coming. It's so -- it's a rather lengthy statement. That's kind of a truncated version of the statement coming from the White House.

Jennifer, so you just talked about the measures that went into place in Kentucky. The reason being people thought that having more guns would mean more protection. The president's statement there is saying you know it's quite the opposite. Will Kentucky or any state use this as a springboard for new action?

MASCIA: Well, it seems that red state legislatures are dug in on this issue. We've seen how this is roiled the Tennessee State Legislature. The reason that they -- lawmakers that tend to be three were ejected --

WHITFIELD: Right.

MASCIA: -- is because they wanted to bring forth gun bills and they were not able to do that. We see how difficult it is to (INAUDIBLE) after --

WHITFIELD: And that was a week after a shooting in a school.

MASCIA: Right. And we thought in Uvalde, the Texas legislature was not willing to budge on this. So, we have really two Americas. One America where there are strong gun laws and lower rates of gun ownership and fewer shootings. And then we have the unlimited gun America where there's easy access, very few barriers to access, and murder rates are much higher than they are in the states that regulate who is getting guns.

And look, AR-15s do a lot of damage. But it's access to weapons -- who were allowing to access these weapons that really makes the difference. As we see, other countries do not have this level of gun violence.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now. Jennifer Mascia and Commissioner Ed Davis, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

DAVIS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And as I mentioned, there will be a news conference from officials in Louisville for the next hour. We'll bring that to you live.

And this just into CNN. The Justice Department has asked a federal appeals court to put on hold a judge's ruling on medication abortion. The ruling could make the drug unavailable nationwide starting Friday at midnight. CNN's Jessica Schneider joining me right now with more on this. Jessica, what is the DOJ doing?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Fredricka, they are acting quickly here because they're really up against the clock. Because remember that Texas judge said that by Friday at midnight Central Time, his ruling will go into effect. That ruling will eliminate the FDA approval of this abortion drug, mifepristone.

So, the DOJ had to move fast here. And what they've done just now is they're now asking the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals to actually put a pause on the judge's ruling beyond that seven days and much longer. They're asking for two stays. A short-term stay and then a longer-term stay while this appeals process plays out.

And this is a conservative-leaning Fifth Circuit, so it's uncertain as exactly how they'll rule in this case or if they will grant this motion for an administrator for a longer term stay. They are asking the Fifth Circuit to make this decision by noon on Thursday. That way, if the Fifth Circuit doesn't go their way, they'll be able to immediately appeal to the Supreme Court by the end of the week before the Texas judge's order takes effect.

What the DOJ is saying in their very lengthy filing here is that rather than preserving the status quo as preliminary relief is meant to do, the district court upended decades of Reliance by blocking the FDA's approval. They go on to say that the district court took extraordinary -- this extraordinary step despite the fact that plaintiffs did not seek relief for many years. So, the DOJ just hammering the case yet again, asking the Fifth Circuit to step in at this point.

And while that's all happening as we await for the Fifth Circuit to see if they will, in fact, put this order on hold even longer, the DOJ is also going to that Washington federal judge asking for clarification. Because as you'll remember, within minutes of the Texas ruling on Friday evening, a Washington federal judge ordered FDA to keep all of its protocols in place to keep this drug available in 17 states plus the District of Columbia. So, Fredricka, the district -- the DOJ is now asking that Washington judge can you give us some clarification here? How can we comply with your ruling to keep this drug available in the 17 states plus DC, and then potentially also comply with this Texas ruling that would take it off -- you know, take it offline.

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So, a lot happening here, a swirl as we go toward that Friday deadline set by this Texas judge. We'll see how quickly the Fifth Circuit acts here. They're asking for a decision by Thursday at noon, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Keep us posted on that. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

All right. Later on this afternoon, a special meeting in Tennessee could lead to the reinstatement of one of the lawmakers expelled from the State House there. We're live from Nashville with a preview. Next.

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WHITFIELD: The Nashville City Council will meet just a short time from now to vote on whether to reappoint ousted lawmaker Justin Jones to his elected seat in the State House. Just four days ago, Tennessee's Republican-led House voted to expel Jones and fellow Democrat Justin Pearson but did not expel representative Gloria Johnson after they lead a rule-breaking protest demanding stronger gun safety measures on the House floor. This all stems from the deadly mass shooting at a nearby school last month. Jones and Pearson have vowed to return to their jobs.

CNN's Ryan Young is live for us in Nashville. So, Ryan, what are you hearing about the vote and the chances for Justin Jones?

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RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Fred, a lot of conversation about this. That meeting will happen at 4:30 today Central. The hope is that they'll get voted back in. And there's going to be a march from here to the statehouse.

So, you can understand there's a lot of excitement behind this because community organizers are really been pouring their hearts into getting the information out there. We were together last week, Fred, when this all was unfolding. One person that everyone's been talking about who's been pretty silent about this is the governor of the state. People are waiting to see if he's going to weigh in with all this national attention that's going on in Tennessee.

But we talked to the vice mayor today about how this procedure will move forward. Take a listen to what he had to say.

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JIM SHULMAN, VICE MAYOR OF NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE: I think we've heard loud and clear from people in Nashville across the state of Tennessee and across the country that yes, democracy needs to be sort of. These two gentlemen need to be sent back immediately to the Tennessee State House. I think the council is pretty clear about who we want to put in that position. It's Justin Jones. And if we get objections to suspending the rules, then we're back on Rule 49 and we'll have to wait four weeks.

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YOUNG: Yes, we'll see what happens. But really, this is all about emotion and how people feel especially the voters. The voters who've been out and being so vocal. I'm actually joined by two organizers who've been out in the streets, Fred, who have been putting their heart into this, and -- Ezri Tyler, and Tequila Johnson. Look, you guys have been watching this. The nations has focused on this. What should people at home understand about this push to make a change here in Tennessee?

EZRI TYLER, NATIONAL ORGANIZER, MARCH FOR OUR LIVES: They should understand that this is something we've been fighting for, for almost 12 days of continuous action where we've literally been screaming outside the capitol and then inside it. On Thursday, we had students crying. We had students there for all 12 hours. And when they were expelled every single time, there would be more tears. But they didn't give up fighting. And we stayed there for that entire time.

YOUNG: Were you shocked by what happened and how these two lawmakers were thrown out?

TEQUILA JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE EQUITY ALLIANCE FUND: Absolutely not. There's been a threat on democracy in Tennessee since forever. And no matter what issue you care about or you're organizing around, if we don't fix our democracy, we cannot make change. We cannot change policies and in some of these crazy laws that we see in our state.

YOUNG: So, after the vote today, you guys, plan to march back to the Capitol, explain how that's going to work out.

JOHNSON: Yes. So, after the vote, we are going to follow behind our elders, our clergy, we're going to march up to the Capitol, and we're going to push our lawmakers to one, make some changes about gun violence and what's happening and what happens to those families, but also to reinstate our lawmakers that we elected.

YOUNG: We've seen another mass shooting today. Did your heart skip a beat when you saw another act of violence in this country?

TYLER: Absolutely. I work at a gun violence prevention organization, March For Our Lives. And we've had over 131 mass shootings this year alone. And every time we hear the news, our heart does stop. And we know that families are affected.

But we also know that this epidemic has been happening for years and we've been screaming for this to be listened to. And so, while the national attention in Tennessee is great, what we need is national action as well to stand behind the words of all these leaders.

YOUNG: Ladies, thank you so much. Thank you for joining me. Fred, like I said again, the plan is for the vote to happen around 4:40 today at Central Time, and then the march to the Capitol. These folks plan to have their voices even louder than before, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. These young people, yet another young generation leading in this movement. Ryan Young, thanks so much.

All right, the battle over abortion medication may be headed to the U.S. Supreme Court after a federal judge in Texas ruled to suspend the FDA's long-standing approval of the commonly used drug, mifepristone. We'll talk about what's next.

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