Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN International: 12th Day of Protests in France ahead of Pension Reform ruling; WAPO: Friend says Pentagon Docs Leaker Worked at Military Base; Russian Parliament Passes Bill to allow Electronic Conscription; President Biden Meets with Irish President. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired April 13, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN HOST: Hello you are watching CNN "Newsroom"; I'm Bianca Nobilo in London in for Max Foster. Just ahead President Joe Biden's trip to Ireland any moment now he'll meet with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar. Earlier he was greeted by Irish President Michael Higgins.

Then thousands are marching across France against the government's pension reform. This is just before a much awaited verdict by the Constitutional Council on the legality of the bill. And new details are emerging about the massive leak of classified U.S. Military documents, including person who may be behind it.

A busy day for U.S. President Joe Biden, he just met Ireland's President Michael Higgins in Dublin and now he's set to meet with Ireland's Prime Minister this hour. The two are expected to discuss several pressing global issues including the war in Ukraine.

Shortly after Mr. Biden will address Ireland's parliament, his speech will likely tout the close ties between the two countries and his own family ties to Ireland. So let's get some more insight now on this meeting, Phil Mattingly joins us now from Dublin. Phil, what are the President's political objectives south of the border?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know Bianca, I think what's been interesting is so much of this trip for President Biden has been framed in the personal nature. And certainly the ancestry is both well mapped out and very deep here. But this is a day, I think very clearly of both ceremony and substance with that meeting with President Michael Higgins that's ongoing right now.

The tea shook that will follow that and then the speech to Parliament, it underscores that there's a very real very substantive bilateral relationship here between the U.S. and Ireland. And one the President hopes to utilize and continue to build on. I think when he speaks to Parliament later today; you will certainly see a President looking back over the history of which he and his family are very much intertwined.

But also looking forward, you mentioned the invasion by Russia and Ukraine. Ireland has been a critical piece of the Western alliance that is sought to push back against that while they are militarily neutral. They have been certainly a key component of the humanitarian assistance, whether or not they can build on that going forward is certainly a topic of discussion.

And keep in mind where the President was just yesterday up in Northern Ireland wants to consult with leaders and top officials of Parliament later today, about their view of things reflect what he has heard in his meeting with the five political leaders up there as well.

So I think it's something that you understand how deeply personal this is for the President. But you also when you talk to Senior White House Officials, Senior Administration Officials. They underscored this isn't just about that. This isn't just about the President visiting pubs or visiting former family members or long lost cousins.

This is about a bilateral relationship that is critical with Europe that is critical for the President that is critical given the scale of the geopolitical issues that have certainly consumed much of President Biden's time in office up to this point, Bianca.

NOBILO: Phil Mattingly thank you so much. A 12th day of nationwide protests against pension reform is happening and now across France. Police are bracing for possible violent attacks as hundreds of thousands of protesters are expected to take to the streets. In Paris, garbage collectors and incinerator workers are on strike yet again.

All this comes on the eve of the constitutional Council's expected ruling on the wildly unpopular pension reform bill that would delay retirement for many by two years. So let's go straight to Fred Pleitgen who is in Paris for us. Fred, is there concern or police intelligence to suggest that they are expecting violence from these protests today?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there certainly is, Bianca, you can see behind me and we're just going to pan around a little bit as I talk, but the riot cops are certainly being gearing up for what could be violence. But we have to point out that at this point in time, none of that can be seen.

It's really a very jovial atmosphere here at this point in time, although some of the protesters that we have seen they've been given the cops that we just saw behind me, quite an earful. And if you look over here, you can see there's a gentleman there who's holding a sign that says take out the trash.

Obviously, referring to some of the top level politicians here in this country, you can see the hash-tag my call at the top of that. And that's really what this protest is increasingly becoming about, you know, we've been talking about the fact that this is about a law that is set to increase or heightened the retirement age here in this country from 62 to 64.

But increasingly, it certainly seems to us as though the anger here of the crowd is really directed directly at the French President and the way that he is trying to push this law through using executive powers, essentially bypassing a real vote in Parliament, and therefore many feel that that is a threat to democracy.

And certainly that is something that has caused a lot of anger. And I think one of the interesting things that we're seeing out here in the crowd, is that the folks who are coming out here, obviously a lot of them are from the trade unions, but you do also see people we're not that close to retirement age.

So a lot of younger people also coming out, and that really shows that a lot of people are very angry at the way that the government -- is trying to push this whole law through and if you look at some of the tactics that the protesters have been using.

[08:05:00]

There are some new things that we've seen in fact earlier today I saw them storm the headquarters of a luxury goods maker and occupy that building for not too long a period of time. But you can see those sorts of small quick actions that the protesters are trying to do. And then you also have this major March that is set to take place set to start very soon as the people really are bringing the anger to the street.

And we do expect that the crowd today is going to be very, very large as tomorrow you have that vote in the core you have that decision by the French Constitutional Council --. This law is in its entirety, or at least parts of it legal or against the Constitution, Bianca.

NOBILO: Thank you, Fred, we look forward to checking back in with you throughout the day and certainly doesn't bode well for any politician when they become part of a garbage pun. Nada Bashir is also in Paris as demonstrations get underway there and she joins us now. Nada, tell us about the protesters that you're with and what exactly they want to get across?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, Bianca were a little way away from where Fred was just reporting from the back of the protests move on where they are currently gathering. And you can see the sheer size and scale of this protest behind me. The authorities anticipate that this will be another large protest expecting at least 400,000 people to take part in today's demonstration.

That we have over the last few weeks, seeing the number of protesters taken to the streets dwindling somewhat is not as large as perhaps we have seen in the past. There are record breaking figures, but of course, this is almost the final chance for protesters here for union members to have their voices heard before the Constitutional Council comes to its final decision tomorrow evening.

So this is going to be a huge moment for these union members and processes to get that message across. And of course, we've also heard from one of the largest unions here in France, saying this isn't the end, even if the Constitutional Council passes this legislation through, which is widely anticipated to be the case.

They will continue to protest in some form or other and you can see behind me despite the bad weather, there has been a huge turnout and of course, a spread veterinary, a significant police presence, as well. We're seeing about the same amount of police turning out as we saw last Thursday.

This is of course, the 12th round of protests and we have seen pockets of violence in the past, although they have been largely peaceful protests. And that is the anticipation say that we may again, see those pockets of violence in the past, we have seen protesters throwing smoke bombs towards the police, painters in the storming of high profile buildings.

And of course, in response police using tear gas and water cannons, there is anticipation that there could be pockets of violence there. But of course, the people here as it processes we are all frustrated to say the least. There are huge amounts of anger directed towards the government over the raising of pension age over the government's decision to push through this legislation without a final vote.

And of course, there is also anger given the fact that France is facing a severe cost of living crisis. Of course, a significant amount of anger in these protests will likely continue because tomorrow is the big day when we do have Constitutional Council to make its final decision. There is the anticipation, expectation and we could see smaller pockets of protests again tomorrow as well, Bianca.

NOBILO: Nada Bashir, great to have you there, thank you. We're getting stunning new details about whom maybe behind the leak of highly sensitive U.S. National Security secrets. The Washington Post spoke to an alleged friend of the leaker who describes him as a lonely young man known as OG, who worked on a military base and was part of an online chat room.

CNN hasn't independently verified that report. Another report on the leak of those classified Pentagon documents suggests there's broad infighting within the Russian government over its war in Ukraine. According to The New York Times, the rift is between Russian Officials, some within the Federal Security Service and the Defense Ministry.

But again, CNN hasn't been able to verify that report. So for more now, let's go to CNN Natasha Bertrand who joins us from Washington. Natasha, what more details are we learning about who this leaker might be and also if he would have any possible motivation for perpetrating this leak and the fallout that it's creating?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Bianca. So what we're learning from the Washington Post here, who actually found a member of this social media server, where all of these classified documents were being posted, is that the original person who had been leaking these documents allegedly?

Is someone who works at a military base in the United States, someone who has access to these classified documents on a daily basis and essentially was sharing them with his friends on this social media server platform in order to kind of show off as well as to convey some of his views about the government which were very dark and very conspiratorial. [08:10:00]

So essentially, what happened was this group was created because all of these people on this server were kind of young men and boys in their early 20s and teens who shared a love of military gear, God and importantly guns, and they all kind of shared their, you know, a shared bond over these interests.

And eventually this leaker, who the Washington Post and who these members of this group only referred to as OG, began to post these very sensitive documents onto this channel, in a way to kind of show his friends that he had access to it. As well as what was going on inside the government on any given day kind of as a way to show these friends.

Kind of where U.S. government money was going, what the intelligence community was doing, and importantly, how the U.S. was supporting the Ukrainians in their fight against Russia? Now, in terms of a motive, it seems to be just that he was boasting about his access to this material.

He also had a very dark view of the government. And while the members of this group do know his actual name, according to the Washington Post, if and where he lives they're refusing to reveal that at this point, because they know that there's a massive FBI investigation underway to find him and they do not want him to be found.

Now all of this comes is we're learning that the Pentagon is severely restricting who can actually access this classified information on a daily basis, their distribution list used to be much larger than they are now. But those lists have been whittled down significantly in recent days to the point where U.S. Officials across the U.S. government who used to receive those documents are now no longer getting them on a daily basis, Bianca.

NOBILO: CNNs Natasha Bertrand, it's great to get your clarity and insights on this story, thank you. In Russia anxiety is growing, that a second wave of mobilization may be nearing after lawmakers approved a bill making it harder for Russians to avoid conscription.

On Wednesday, the upper house of parliament gave final approval to a measure that would allow for electronic delivery of military call up papers, and includes tough penalties for those who ignore them. President Vladimir Putin is expected to quickly sign the bill into law.

CNN's Clare Sebastian joins me now for more. Clare, this has been rushed through. And it makes me wonder many things but two. Primarily one, the impact that this could have potential mobilization on a Ukrainian spring offensive and the other we've seen a mobilization from the wives and mothers of Russian troops before. Could this have a negative impact on Russian morale?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think the context here is that Russians never really believed that the previous wave of mobilization had actually ended. There's this phrase that is sort of doing its rounds, certainly among independent voices in Russia, which is creeping mobilization, or even silent mobilization, which leads you to believe that one they don't trust that the government had finished.

And to that there is some thinking that if another wave happens, it might be done insidiously, that they might not announce it as they did the last time, in order to avoid that sense of panic that hit to public opinion that they saw and obviously the Exodus as well.

But this new law, while the Kremlin is strenuously denying that another mobilization is on the cards would certainly make it easier removes friction by allowing them to deliver those papers electronically. And of course, it brings in as well, those pretty coercive measures, if people are trying to avoid the draft.

For example, as soon as the electronic papers dropped, you're not allowed to leave the country. So obviously, that seems like a response to what happened last autumn with the mobilization. If you then don't show up at a recruitment office within 20 days, other measures come in, you can't set up a business, you can't take out a loan, buy a property, there are restrictions on using your driving license, pretty serious coercive measures.

All of this, of course, part of what we've seen since the start of the war, this repression of people at home, there's also going to be a unified database of people eligible for the draft, which, you know, smacks of surveillance, which is another thing we've seen stepping up in Russia.

And I think this is going to raise those fears of that potential creeping mobilization and certainly going into a potential spring offensive. We know that manpower is critical on the battlefield.

NOBILO: Yes, and we've spoken many times, haven't we? About the fact that historically, numbers have given Russia military advantage even if it lacked it technologically, and it's got 100 million more people than Ukraine. Clare Sebastian, thank you so much.

And we're going to go live now to President Biden, who is ringing a bell south of the border in Ireland, having political meetings. Let's listen in and see what the President is up to.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: --all my delegations going to want to stay and not go home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you're in the sunshine, you're happy. That's pretty you want to be --.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President how you feeling?

BIDEN: I'm feeling great and learned a lot hanging out with the President.

[08:15:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible)

BIDEN: It feels great you know I know it sounds silly but there are so many Irish Americans, like my relatives who got here got to America in 1844, 45, or 46, who've never been back here. And they talked about the interesting thing I know many of you have the same experience with your ancestry wherever your country of origin was.

But you hear all these stories about, you know what it was like back in Ireland, they heard from their parents and grandparents and great grandparents. And the thing, my first trip over here, when I went to the Boyne, and I looked down on my grandfather Finnegan used to say, his grandfather Owen Finnegan and used to say, Scranton, Pennsylvania is just like the Boyne Valley.

And I thought we were standards. We look and scream as a river runs through on the line on a river and a mountain on either side or the valleys -- live. If you look down and see we could see how 100 years earlier than we do, and it looks like --. And there's all those anyways, it's so great to always have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, could you give an update on that leak investigation, the leaked documents --?

BIDEN: I can't right now there's a full blown investigation going on, as you know, with the intelligence community the Justice Department, and we're getting close. I don't have an answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How concerned are you about the fleet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you concerned about -- the time to go --?

BIDEN: I'm not concerned about the -- I'm concerned and that happened. But there's nothing contemporaneous that I'm aware of that is of good --.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you concerned about the relationships with allies?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --many times anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement that we felt qualified, there's only two Good Friday Agreement, what are your hopes for the next 25 years for the people of Ireland, both jurisdictions?

BIDEN: It gets even closer that I hope that the government begins to function as it used to, and service of functioning as a representative body in the north. I think that's necessary and that's for you I'll decide not for me to decide. But I think that I'm very proud of my colleague, George Mitchell.

I think he did a fine job. He said 300 days of failure one-day success. And we got to build on that one day continue, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, can I have --.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --secret's safe in American hands, Mr. President?-- NOBILO: And you're watching the U.S. President take some selfies and answer some questions. He's been escorted there by the Irish President, Michael Higgins who saw behind him. It's been in the role for over a decade.

BIDEN: --they posted seek a new life --.

NOBILO: CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins me now from the Irish capital Dublin where the U.S. President is. Nic, the President's enthusiasm and passion for Ireland is obvious to anybody that looks at him or listens to him. It was hard to get him to stop talking about it just then that must be going down extremely well in the country.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is. And look, everyone you talk to here is excited that the President is visiting you see the stars and stripes flying outside pubs, outside hotels, outside restaurants on the streets, some of the stores here. So people are appreciative that he's here.

You know, and I think the words that the President expressed today when he was visiting with the Irish President Michael Higgins, when he said your feet will lead you where your heart is. I mean, look, that's music to the ears of the Irish because this is the leader of the most powerful nation in the world.

And in theory, the most powerful man on the planet and he traces its roots back here and he believes those connections are strong, and he has good relationships here. So it is important and perhaps there's a recognition too, that the island that he remembers or knows through his family.

Perhaps that's changing, perhaps is the last of this of a generation of American leaders that would trace their roots back to Ireland as strongly as he does this is a nation that is changing.

[08:20:00]

And perhaps you know when he has more time here he will see and appreciate many of those changes and I think we certainly heard that from him yesterday, when he was Belfast. He was talking about the importance of the youth, the importance of youth shaping the future.

This is very much a nation in change. So much change from his ancestors that his ancestors knew, and changed perhaps, in his memories and perception of it.

NOBILO: Thanks, Nic and we're still looking at pictures here of President Biden accompanied by the Irish President, that you were just referring to there. They've also been passing a rather large, cute looking dog. Nic, can you tell us what we can expect from the President's movements for the rest of the day?

ROBERTSON: Yes, the President's dog is quite famous. In fact, there were two sadly, one passed away. That so this is the President of Ireland, I think it has to be said, is a hugely respected figure here a man of intellect, a man of great knowledge, a man of great depth of the culture of Ireland.

And that's something that we hear President Biden often expressing how often, "Irish poet" so often, "Irish folklore", if you will. So I think in the President and Michael Higgins, the President of Ireland, President Joe Biden finds a kindred spirit in a love of the country.

But when he comes here, and he speaks to Parliament, a joint session of the parliament, in a couple of hours, will hear him there, perhaps more formally articulate how he sees not only his personal connection with the country, but also the United States connection with Ireland as well, whether it's shared peacekeeping missions, or thoughts about the climate, or perhaps on Ukraine.

These are all issues that both countries share. And of course, since the U.K. left the European Union, Brexit and the United States used to, you know, look upon the U.K. as a country that could express the U.S. voice, if you will, within Brussels, European Union meetings.

Ireland, certainly, with that closeness of connection can express the United States interests around the table with other European Union leaders. Obviously, President Biden has a great relationship with Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission President, but she doesn't have a vote at the table and Ireland does.

And it would be important as well for the United States to feel. That it can at least be heard inside the chambers when big decisions are being made in Brussels.

NOBILO: Yes, Nic, I think this is a very important point. I'm glad you're getting into it, because we've been discussing that the U.S. President and the Irish President have been talking about global affairs issues where they obviously are aligned such as the war in Ukraine and principles of democracy, economic links, et cetera.

The U.S. is, though, as you mentioned that the world's most powerful country, as it stands. Ireland, I believe, is in the top 25 of the world's economies. But sometimes you might wonder you know what would Ireland be able to give the U.S. in return? And why is Ireland such an important partner for the United States?

ROBERTSON: It's a partner because of the shared history as a partner, because both nations speak pretty much the same language. Both nations have a shared sense of democracy and democracies values, I think they can certainly be said about Ireland and it certainly democracy.

And the fact that it's under threat is a point that President Biden repeatedly makes. And the way that democracy works here, in Ireland, is a shared value with the United States, but at a practical level. This is another country that the United States can count on to support it in many ways.

They might have shared views on the amount of military support, or rather different views on the amount of military support that goes to Ukraine. But Ireland has certainly responded to the United States, calls for more help for Ukraine over the past year since Russia invaded it. So there are many ways that the relief that their outlooks might be slightly different, but the values are shared and that they can come together to help countries like Ukraine, even though they won't do it in the same military way.

NOBILO: And, Nic, you touched on this earlier, the fact that 30 million Americans identify as Irish around 1 in 10. This trip could also potentially carry some political way to influence back home for Biden.

ROBERTSON: Yes, it's election year next year.

[08:25:00]

So it will be very Important for President Biden that anyone within the Irish community that shares his love of Ireland he would obviously hope that they would also you know value him to be President again for a second term. We were in Ballina were some of the President's family from the--

In particular, the President will be there tomorrow. We were there just before the election, back 2.5 years ago or so, almost 3 years now ago. There's support in the community that everyone told us they'd be watching the television that night to make sure that President Biden got elected and of course he did.

But yes, to every American President, the Irish American vote is hugely important. And perhaps this visit well. We'll kindle some voting love, if you will, for the President in a year or so. It's time.

NOBILO: Nic, you were on the island of Ireland, while the peace process discussions were going on and have reported widely on the troubles. I'm curious on your takeaways of this much hyped visit of President Biden to Northern Ireland now to Ireland in general, you know, what struck you as being the most significant about it so far?

ROBERTSON: Perhaps the reaction of Jeffrey Donaldson, the Democratic Unionist Party leader in Northern Ireland, who won't let his party and his party won't go back into the power sharing government that President Biden said was an important outflow of the Good Friday Peace Agreement.

And he just repeated his thoughts there when asked by a journalist. President Biden said that, you know, he did think that it would be important to continue building on the peace and to get the power sharing government up and running, but he said it's not for me to say. I think Jeffrey Donaldson yesterday said that President Biden hadn't moved the dial.

But he also sounded as if he was sympathetic towards President Biden and perhaps hinting that later this summer. He might indeed follow what the President has said, but not because of what the President has said perhaps because of British legislation that gets passed in the summer that may address some of his Brexit concerns. NOBILO: Nic Robertson is just being fantastic to hear from you and have your response to that. Thank you so much. And thanks to all of you for joining me here on CNN "Newsroom", I'm Bianca Nobilo in London and "World Sport" with Amanda Davies is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]