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Pentagon Conducting Damage Assessment From Classified Documents; Leak Suspect Accused Of Posting Classified Material Online; Interview With Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA); Fierce Fighting Erupts Between Government Troops And Paramilitary Group In Sudan; Outrage As France Raises Retirement Age From 62 To 64; Mass Protests In Israel Now On Its 15th Consecutive Weekend; Supreme Court Extends Access To Mifepristone; DeSantis Signs Florida Six-Week Abortion Ban; Interview With Rep. Anna Eskamani (D-FL). Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 15, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:50]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin the hour with major damage control underway inside the U.S. intelligence community. Right now the Pentagon is trying to assess the fallout of leaked classified documents. 21-year-old Jack Teixeira, an Air National guardsman, is in custody and charged under the Espionage Act. The documents he's accused of leaking are considered highly classified and include eavesdropping on adversaries and allies alike.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us now over at the White House.

Jeremy, what more are we learning about this damage assessment that's underway?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we're talking about dozens of highly classified documents that were leaked online allegedly by this 21-year-old airman, Jack Teixeira. And now the Pentagon is working to assess exactly what the damage to U.S. national security will be of some of these documents. And if you look at the breadth of information that was included in these documents, it really spans a range of topics.

We're talking about the looking at how deeply U.S. intelligence has been able to get inside the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Russian mercenary group, the Wagner Group. There's talk of weaknesses and shortages of weaponry and ammunitions within the Ukrainian forces, and then also, we're talking about eavesdropping on key U.S. allies like South Korea, Israel and Ukraine, including spying directly on the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky. And just recently, we've learned through the "Washington Post" that there is also talk of Taiwan's vulnerability to air attacks from China.

And so now the Pentagon in partnership with those intelligence agencies is working to try and assess exactly what the impact will be on U.S. national security and of course on U.S. allies as well. This is a separate review from the investigation that the Justice Department is conducting. But the results of this assessment could potentially be used against Jack Teixeira in his eventual trial.

Now President Biden in Ireland has been closely tracking all of this. He returned early this morning, but yesterday he did talk about what he's directed the Department of Defense to do. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have instructed the department to make sure that they get to the root of why he had access in the first place, number one. And number two, to focus extensively on the extent to which it all occurred. And that's going on right now. I have nothing to report beyond what's already been reported.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And President Biden did also say that he believes that this investigation is proceeding quicker than he expected.

Now we do know that the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, he has already directed the Pentagon to assess the ways in which intelligence is accessed and protected to potentially look at changing some of those protocols. We know that the Joint Chiefs, which produced some of these intelligence assessments that appeared to have been leaked by Teixeira, they have already begun to limit access to some of those documents as well, the daily e-mails that are sent out.

So already we're seeing some movement underway. And, of course, President Biden, who's been getting briefed on this issue regularly. he's also been getting briefed on how U.S. officials are working to limit damage with U.S. allies who may be upset by the revelations here, including some of that eavesdropping that we were talking about before -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Jeremy Diamond, very sensitive time for the administration and the intelligence community. Thanks very much.

So who is Jack Teixeira, the 21-year-old Air National guardsman accused of posting top secret Pentagon information online? CNN's Alex Marquardt takes a closer look.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jim, Airman 1st Class Jack Teixeira is just 21 years old. He's been in the Air National Guard since enlisting back in 2019, and for the past two years has held a top-secret security clearance.

Now according to the unsealed affidavit, he began violating the terms of that security clearance back in December, starting to post classified information as just paragraphs of text. Then in January, he started posting photos of the classified documents on the social media site Discord, which is popular with video gamers.

So these documents, and we understand there are hundreds of them, they were online for months before they really came to light back on April 6th. That is the day that the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, he got his first briefing, and it was just one week before Teixeira was then arrested at his parents' house south of Boston. [16:05:05]

So why did Teixeira have access to these documents with such a low military rank? Well, he worked in the 102nd Intelligence Operations wing. That is a military unit that produces intelligence for senior military commanders all around the world. And Teixeira's job was called a cyber defense operations journeyman. Essentially that means he was IT support for this highly classified network that he worked on and you can't be a normal IT guy and service this network so he had to have a high-level clearance.

Now federal agents are certainly looking into what he accessed, how he accessed it. We know that they've looked on his computer already. Questions about whether he printed out these documents himself and how he got them out, and there will be much bigger questions going forward about who can access what kind of intelligence in the military and intelligence community -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Thanks, Alex, for that. I want to bring in Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat who sits on the House Judiciary Committee.

Congresswoman, lots to talk about. I first want to get into the documents that were leaked online and this young, very young Air National guardsman Teixeira. He began posting these documents and their contents beginning last December. What concerns do you have considering these documents I guess we're floating around for months before this arrest was made?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Well, obviously the leak is very damaging to Ukraine and to the United States. And we do need to get to the bottom of it. That he was posting some of this material online and it was not promptly discovered is of concern. On the other hand, the world wide Web is a big place, and this was an obscure part of the Web, so we do need to take a look at how we might better become alert to such items while maintaining a free society.

I don't know. Obviously, there's a presumption of innocence for anyone who is accused of a crime. But it looks like this young man did some very severe damage to our country. Really anyone who would do this is engaged in trader's activity.

ACOSTA: And I know Congress is going to be looking into this. What would you like to see investigated? We simply have too many people with access to these kinds of materials. If somebody who's 21 years old, you know, an IT oriented Air National guardsman can get access to this and post it online. Are there just too many people with access to this stuff?

LOFGREN: Well, that's something we have to look at. But you'll recall after 9/11 we did realize that we had insufficient sharing of information that also made us vulnerable. So there has to be a balance between disclosing information. But in this case, you know this was a guy apparently who was skilled technologically, who was a part of a very important activity, which is to prevent cyber security breaches ironically. The fact that he was 21 I'm not sure is material. It was his lack of

character that was at stake, and we have many young Americans serving with technological skills that make us strong, so saying that, you know, he's 21, I don't think is the issue. How do we provide cybersecurity with a technologically skilled members of our military and maintain a defensive posture against espionage of this sort?

That's something that I know the Department of Defense will be looking at very closely, as will the Congress.

ACOSTA: And shifting gears to the various investigations into former president Donald Trump. I'm sure you've seen this reporting here at CNN. Multiple sources telling us that federal prosecutors are pressing witnesses for details about how Trump has paid for his lawyers, specifically they want to know whether any of those lawyers have attempted to engage in I guess tampering witnesses, influence witness testimony in an effort to protect Trump.

You sat on the January 6th Committee. Does any of that sound familiar to you?

LOFGREN: Well, we had testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson to that effect. Obviously it was her testimony, but I imagine the Department of Justice is looking at that. It's not illegal to assist another party with a legal defense. But in the case of the ex-president, given his record of distortion and frankly bullying others, it does raise concerns and I think it's proper for the Department of Justice to be thoroughly investigating this.

[16:10:06]

The money he raised from his small contributors has been used. I think in some ways just to keep people in line. You know a million dollars to Mark Meadows, money to the America First Policy Institute that retained many of his officials. Ways to keep people in line not to cross the ex-president. One has to wonder whether paying the lawyers of the accused is another way of keeping people in line.

ACOSTA: And the "Washington Post" is reporting that federal prosecutors investigating the attack on the Capitol wanted to determine if Trump or his advisers were scamming supporters into donating based on false claims of voter fraud. I know that is also an area that you looked at on the January 6th Committee. What's your reaction to some of that reporting?

LOFGREN: Well, I don't think there's any doubt that he was scamming his supporters. He solicited funds for defense fund that didn't exist. He accumulated, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars and did not use it for the purposes that he told his supporters. So obviously he was -- he did take their money and solicit their money under false pretenses. Whether that constitutes criminal conduct at something the Department of Justice will have to decide.

ACOSTA: And what do you think about how the special counsel's probe is going? Is it running the risk of taking too long? I mean, we are, you know, a couple of months, few months from debates getting started, nine or 10 months from caucuses and primaries. These investigations are running right up against the primary schedule.

LOFGREN: They have to be thorough. I do understand that. But I think the sooner they conclude their investigation the better off America will be. That doesn't mean they will find a need to indict. That's a decision they have to make. But the sooner they make that decision, the better off everyone will be.

ACOSTA: And if I could just ask you finally while we have you, any thoughts on whether it's time for Senator Dianne Feinstein to step down? I know Democrats in California have a lot of affection for Senator Feinstein and some were advocating that she stepped out from her Senate seat. Where are you on this? Do you share that view? Do you think she should take her time with it? And are you interested in that seat?

LOFGREN: Well, I am not running for that seat. Let me just say this. You know, there have been plenty of senators over the years who have been ill and who have been away from the Senate to recover. And so that is not different than many, many others, including most recently the minority leader in the Senate.

The question really is for Dianne whether she is, you know, really unable to return. I've not heard that and I hope that she recovers promptly and returns to the Senate. She has a lifetime of excellent public service to our country. I haven't always agreed with her. But her life has been committed to our country into public service. And I respect that.

ACOSTA: Do you think some of your colleagues might be a little too quick to push her out? What do you think?

LOFGREN: Well, as I say, you know, there have been many senators who because of illness or I can recall a senator who had a stroke who was away from the Senate for many, many months. This is not different and two single her out I think is not reasonable. However, if she concludes with her family and physicians that she is unable to return, that would be a different matter.

I don't know the answer to that. But I know she will be evaluating that with her physicians and because her whole life has been committed to our country I'm sure she'll make a decision in the best interests of America.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Zoe Lofgren, we always appreciate you coming on with us. Thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

LOFGREN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. Still ahead, a deadly standoff in Sudan.

Fighting erupts between the Sudan's army and a paramilitary group. The global condemnation coming in amid fears of a full-blown coup. Plus the Supreme Court gets a flood of messages from members of Congress to health organizations after Justice extends access to a critical abortion drug while the court considers the case.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:19:00]

ACOSTA: Months of growing tensions between rival groups in Sudan have become an all-out battle for control of one of Africa's biggest countries. Fighting between Sudanese government forces and a paramilitary group broke out Saturday morning at a military base and there are conflicting reports on which side controls key government locations, including the presidential palace. You can hear some of the gunfire right there in Khartoum. Now world leaders are calling for peace and the U.S. ambassador to the Sudan says he has sheltering in place as the fighting continues.

CNN's Larry Madowo joins us now with more.

Larry, what do we think? How destabilizing for the region might this be if this blows up into a full blown coup? Are we getting the sense that it's heading in that direction? Do we just not know enough? What can you tell us?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We don't know enough. But there is great concern in the region, Jim, that this could blow into a much deeper problem of civil war or something of the sort, which is why you see statements from countries like Kenya and Ethiopia and Somalia and Egypt, calling for a return to this transition to civilian rule in Sudan.

[16:20:06]

The U.N. secretary general has been working the phones, speaking with the leader of Sudan, with the leader of Egypt, but also the leader of the Rapid Support Forces. This is the paramilitary that appears to be in this conflict official Sudanese military. In fact, it's now degenerated into a full-on destruction and a day of extreme violence in Sudan. And this is at the center of it, a power struggle. It's not an attempted coup at this time. CNN is not describing it like that.

It is a power struggle between the two men who run Sudan over who will be the big boss when there is a return to civilian rule because the Rapid Support Forces that are supported by Russia and funded and armed by Russia is a very powerful 100,000 strong force. However, it is -- the leader is the second person in charge of Sudan, the leader of Sudan, General al-Burhan, who Hemedti, this is the gentleman that runs the Rapid Support Forces, has called in interviews today a liar, a criminal, a thief.

And in return, the Sudanese Armed Forces has now put out a wanted poster calling this man who runs the Rapid Support Forces a criminal and asking Sudanese people to report him to the forces. So it sounds -- it seems complicated because it is complicated, Jim.

ACOSTA: I'm sure it is. And what's the reaction then both across Africa and around the world? MADOWO: All the regional players here are calling for a return to

negotiation, to return to the civilian rule. Sudan has been in the military dictatorship so to speak since October, 2025.

I want to play for you what U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Major parties in Khartoum some weeks ago reached a very important framework agreement on how to proceed with a transition to civilian government, and there's been real progress in trying to move that forward, but I think there's a real opportunity to move forward on the agreed framework and certainly that's what we're strongly supporting. It's a fragile situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MADOWO: It's a fragile situation because one sticking point in this return to civilian rule that Secretary Blinken refers to there is the merging of the Rapid Support Forces and the Sudanese Military and who will be in charge of that -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. A very fragile situation indeed. Larry Madowo, thanks as always for all your work. We appreciate it.

There is a quiet calm across France tonight, one day after the country's highest court upheld a controversial new law that raises France's retirement age from 62 to 64. The plan spearheaded by President Emmanuel Macron prompted weeks of angry protests with protesters filling the streets and police responded with tear gas.

Our Nada Bashir has more from Paris for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, despite the fierce backlash, this new legislation has received, President Emmanuel Macron wasted no time in signing it into law. This comes after weeks of deliberation by France's Constitutional Council and weeks of protests by union members and other demonstrators against the proposal by the government to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64.

Now of course the Constitutional Council has given the green light to the core of this new legislation. They're striking down six minor measures included in the proposal. President Emmanuel Macron has now extended an invitation to union heads to meet with him at the Elysee next Tuesday, though the head of one of France's largest unions has already rejected this invitation and is calling for more protests, particularly on May 1st, which is traditionally Labor Day here in France.

The head of the CGT Union calling for historic protests to take place against this new law. And of course, we have seen mass protests in Paris and across France. In fact, over the last 12 weeks on Thursday, 380,000 people taking to the streets across the country, some 42,000 here in Paris alone. And of course, all these protests have been largely peaceful. There were pockets of violence. Some scuffles reported between the police and protesters.

Police later having to use tear gas to disperse the crowds at the end of Thursday's protests, and in fact there were small demonstrations on Friday in response to the Constitutional Council's decision.

Now this has been a deeply controversial and deeply unpopular legislation. It has drawn fierce backlash not only from protesters but also from opposition leaders. And President Emmanuel Macron himself has faced fierce criticism over his decision to push this legislation through bypassing the lower house of parliament, where Macron's party crucially doesn't hold an outright majority, and foregoing a final vote.

Many of the protesters that we've spoken to over the last week telling us they believe this undermines the fundamental principles of democracy here in France.

[16:25:01]

So while this bill is going ahead, it has had a significant impact on President Macron's popularity, and according to the unions, they expect to see further protests over the coming weeks.

Nada Bashir, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now to the latest scenes out of Israel. More demonstrations and estimated 160,000 people poured into the streets of Tel Aviv tonight as mass protests against the government's controversial judicial overhaul shows no signs of slowing down.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is on the ground there with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the 15 straight weeks of demonstrations against Prime Minister Netanyahu's proposed judicial overhaul, and people are out here to make their voices loud. Just listen to the anger from this crowd.

This proposal, if it went ahead, would give the government the power over the appointment of judges. It would give parliament power to override Supreme Court positions. And for these protesters, that means a threat to democracy. That means checks and balances are being eroded. That means Prime Minister Netanyahu gets greater power and control.

It is extraordinary to see this crowd at a time of heightened tensions, at a time of external security threats, but still they continue coming out against Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government. That proposal right now is delayed but expected to be back on the table any day, and they, these protesters, want to keep the pressure on. Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Our thanks to both of those reporters with those posts for us. Thanks so much.

Still ahead, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis quietly signs a bill that would ban most abortions in his state after six weeks. A member of the Florida statehouse joins us next to react.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:00]

ACOSTA: The Supreme Court overnight hit pause on the battle over a key abortion drug. You may remember an appeals court stepped in after a federal judge in Texas suspended the FDA's approval of mifepristone last week while the appeals court kept the FDA approval in place and imposed tighter restrictions on how the drug is used and distributed. The Supreme Court is blocking those restrictions now, making mifepristone available for women across the country. The move also gives the court more time to consider the issue.

Also, in the abortion battle this week, Ron DeSantis signed one of the nation's most restrictive abortion laws into Florida law. Abortion is now illegal in the state after six weeks, that's before many women even know they're pregnant or even had a chance to see their OB-GYN. The new law makes exceptions for cases of rape, incest and human trafficking.

Even then, the women only have 15 weeks to get the procedure done, and they have to provide proof like a restraining order or a police report. Florida State Representative Anna Eskamani joins me now.

Representative, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

What does all this mean for women in your state, what the governor has done there?

STATE REP. ANNA ESKAMANI (D-FL): Well, thank you so much, Jim, for having me. It's devastating for women and pregnant people, not just in Florida, but also in the southeast. So, we've seen an increase of abortion services being needed as women have traveled to Florida from other southern eastern states of the United States looking for help.

And so, this is a tragedy, not just for Floridians before women across America. And we're going to fight back in every way that we can. But the fact that Governor Ron DeSantis signed this behind closed doors, 11:00 at night, also tells me that he knows how deeply unpopular this policy is, not just in our state, before Americans around the country.

ACOSTA: And I definitely want to ask you about the politics of this in a moment. But I mean, what do you say to women in Florida who may be looking for abortion services right now? Medically speaking plenty of women don't even know that they're pregnant until after six weeks or for practical -- all practical purposes, it's just an all-out ban for a lot of women out there.

ESKAMANI: You are correct, Jim. Six weeks is incredibly extreme. You will not know you're pregnant by six weeks. And I actually worked at Planned Parenthood before I ran for office. And so, I see the real- life implications of these policies on patients.

And not only is this going to force individuals into birth, but you're going to have to leave the State of Florida to access care. And right now, our closest state is North Carolina. But finding an appointment in North Carolina has also been a struggle as so many other states that ban abortion are doing the same. And so, we're leveraging our abortion funds. We're doing what we can to communicate to patients what this means.

And I want to be clear, this six-week abortion ban is not going to affect immediately. In fact, what's really complicated about this ban is it's privy on the Florida Supreme Court decision on the 15-week ban, which is still being litigated in our state and unconstitutional under our state constitution. And so, despite that, the governor moved forward with a six-week ban but it's not in place yet because we're waiting for that decision on 15 weeks. And then, when that decision comes out, we have 30 days until a six-week ban goes into effect.

ACOSTA: We'd have to imagine it puts a chill out there for a lot of women who are thinking about undergoing this procedure. And, Representative, you've also said that this new abortion law could tank a DeSantis presidential run. You were indicating a few moments ago, he did this behind closed doors. He is surrounded by some supporters there when he did this. We're showing a picture of that right now.

But what's your message to women around the country who are considering supporting a DeSantis candidacy?

ESKAMANI: Well, first of all, please understand how extreme Governor DeSantis is and taking away our collective freedoms. This is an unpopular ban, and we've seen around the country Americans reject abortion bans and support constitutional amendments that codify these protections at a local state level.

[16:35:00]

And so, you need to understand that a White House with Governor Ron DeSantis is one that takes away our freedoms and our liberties. And that event he had behind closed doors with no press, with no notice, and it was so orchestrated to give off the impression of community support where he had to tell people in that room to clap for him. It was like Jeb Bush vibes all over again.

So, please understand that as Floridians, we overwhelmingly oppose this ban. It is actually not just a Republican controlled legislature that's doing it, but it is the governor trying to pander towards a conservative base of voters. ACOSTA: And so, what do you think is going on politically for Governor DeSantis from a national perspective? Because what we saw in Wisconsin just a short while ago is voters go to the polls and tipped the scales towards the progressives when it comes to control of the State Supreme Court there, and a lot of people said that was because of the abortion issue. You're seeing a lot of backlash, it seems, against Republican majorities in State Houses across the country. Look what happened in Tennessee on a different issue, obviously, there was a backlash there.

Why is it that, you think, Ron DeSantis thinks he can do something like this, it's very conservative in Florida, but still be viable as a presidential candidate?

ESKAMANI: Well Jim, the answer is simple, Governor Ron DeSantis is trying to out Trump Trump. And so, to do that, you have to be as extreme as possible. Now, at argue, unless you've been indicted and have led an insurrection. You can't out Trump Trump. But obviously, Ron DeSantis is trying to do that through his actions.

But it is not only unpopular among the general electorate, we had several Republicans vote no on this ban on the house floor when -- and some walked away so they wouldn't have to vote. So, the legislature knows that this will lead to lost seats. And what gives me hope is the people of Florida rising up in opposition to this and having the voice be heard on that 2024 ballot box.

And I'm also hopeful that the American people realize that DeSantis is a coward for signing this ban into law at nighttime, you know, in a closed office environment that he is trying to trick voters into seeing him as being viable at a national stage. And I think we're seeing that that's not the case, and that he doesn't have a path to victory.

ACOSTA: All right. Florida Representative Eskamani, thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. ESKAMANI: Thanks for having me, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right.

ESKAMANI: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Still ahead, of Former President Donald Trump escalating his attacks on Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, including with an ad involving pudding, We'll run the numbers on the impact it's having ahead of 2024. That's actually live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:00]

ACOSTA: There's a new political attack on Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, and it comes from a pack supporting Donald Trump. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DeSantis has his dirty fingers all over senior entitlements, like cutting Medicare, slashing Social Security, even --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The ad refers to report that DeSantis once ate pudding from a cup with his fingers, DeSantis says that did not happen. But will the ad leave a bad aftertaste for voters? CNN's Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us to run the numbers.

Harry would never eat pudding that way. He would always find a spoon or just not eat the pudding at all. Putting all that to the side, just how much of Trump's standing improved over the last few months versus DeSantis? I mean, are you seeing a measurable bump?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I mean, my goodness gracious, we're seeing a measurable bump over the last few months. Look, at the end of last year, Donald Trump was in the lead in the Republican primary polls, but it was a real horse race, right? It was a close race. It was about a 10-point race.

Take a look what's happened now though. In April, look at this. It's now a 26-point advantage for Donald Trump. He is up 10 points. DeSantis is down six points. What was a close race in one in which I think you could argue that either one of them were about as likely to be the GOP nominee come next year has now turned into a complete blowout at this particular point.

There are very few politicians, you could perhaps name a few, who are in Donald Trump's position at this particular point and didn't go on to win the nomination, but he is the clear favorite right now.

ACOSTA: And is this about DeSantis becoming weaker or is it about Trump becoming stronger in the party? What do you see?

ENTEN: Yes. I think it's probably a little bit of both, but it's certainly at least partially about Donald Trump becoming stronger, right? I think a lot of us would have thought with all the charges that came out against Trump over the last few months that, in fact, voters, Republican voters would see him being as the weaker general election nominee.

But look at this, Trump gives the GOP the best chance to win in 2024. It was 35 percent in November, jumped up to 42 percent in February. It's now up to, get this, 49 percent. So, it's not just about DeSantis coming stronger, Trump is making a case to the Republican base, and it seems is like they're seeing his side of the story.

ACOSTA: And how is he doing another metrics? Is there another key metric that you're looking at?

ENTEN: Yes. There's one that, I think, we've spoken about before, Jim, and that is, it mentions on Fox News. We remember back in 2016 -- 2015, 2016 that Trump was able to dominate media mentions. Look at this. Over the last 50 days, Trump has about, get this, more than three times as many mentions on Fox News as Ron DeSantis back in the end of 2022, it's only about twice as much. You could see Trump is up nearly threefold while DeSantis is up less than twofold. So, the fact is Trump is hogging the media, and it seems to be working for him, at least according to the polls.

ACOSTA: And there's a different type of election happening right now, Harry. You don't -- you do need votes for this. What can you tell us?

ENTEN: Yes. I need votes, folks. You know, we put an ad up for the podcast at the end of each of our segments, Jim.

ACOSTA: Shameless plug alert. Yes.

[16:45:00]

ENTEN: I'm up for -- yes, look at this. I need your votes. You can scan it with the QR code, you can -- or you could go to tiny.cc/voteforharry, "Margins of Error." I need your votes. The fact that every vote counts. I'm only down three points before you guys go out there and vote.

If you guys are able to put me out over the top, Jim, I swear I'm going to come out here next weekend. We're going to throw a party. I'm going to send some fried chicken to anybody who could possibly need it, because the fact is, I need your votes. You can scan the QR code or tiny.cc/voteforharry. "Margins of Error" is the name of the podcast. I need your votes, folks. Please support me.

ACOSTA: Very good. All right. And free pudding for everyone if Harry wins as well.

ENTEN: There you go.

ACOSTA: There you go. All right. Harry Enten, thanks so much. Be sure to check out Harry's podcast, "Margins of Error." You can find it on your favorite podcast app. And don't forget to vote for Harry. And you can go to cnn.com/audio for that podcast as well. Great stuff. Thanks, Harry. Appreciate it.

Still ahead, migrants on a treacherous journey across a roadless trail in hopes of making it to the U.S. What our CNN team saw when they followed these thousands of people, including many children, next. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:00]

ACOSTA: A treacherous journey through a lawless jungle alongside migrants hoping for a better life on the other side. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh and his team recently hiked the entire Darien Gap. It's a migrant trail that spans from South America, Central America with thousands of migrants seeking a path to the U.S. There are no roads. Yet, despite the danger of the number of migrants on this trail only continues to grow. The team did this walk over five days and the stories that they encountered are extraordinary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): And literally meters from Colombia, the ground turns.

WALSH (on camera): People, as they walk just discarding their shoes. Their real sense of the atmosphere changing now we've crossed the border into Panama. People clumping together, perhaps fearing for their own safety. And it's mud. It's just impossibly to go and get your feet out of it.

WALSH (voiceover): This man, who didn't want to be named, now with nothing on his feet but his resolve. Pause and imagine where you've come from if you're willing to do this barefoot with a woolen sweater and plastic bags. Pierce your feet or break an ankle, and this mud maybe your grave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Don't' take me through the high parts. God help me. Give me patience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins us now. Nick, just extraordinary footage that you and your team captured there. What was it like for you personally to be there and experience such a harrowing trip? I mean, to see that elderly woman, just a few moments ago, going through that mud, it just breaks your heart.

WALSH (on camera): Yes. Look, I mean, you know, for us, it was relatively easier. It was still exhausting and at times sort of terrifying, really. We had all the equipment that CNN could possibly furnished upon us and people to help us carry our stuff. But for the ordinary migrants who undertook this journey, it was physically exhausting, at times they ran out of food, ran out of water that was clean water, and there was the potential perils of criminals.

We saw people who clearly been murdered along the route, preyed upon allegations of sexual assault from those attacking migrants as well. And on the top of that too, the ordinary hazard of the jungle, snakes. In fact, you could slip at any point in any of these multiple river crossings, damage your ankle and then, essentially, be stranded inside this jungle.

It's exceptionally difficult to make this crossing over the five days that it takes most people, but that just gives you an insight, when people take their young children on their shoulders and carry them for days, hours to get through this of exactly where they're coming from, of the perils that they're fleeing at home. The top four nations that comprise the record numbers so far they've seen on this track so far this year come from Haiti, Venezuela, Ecuador, a South America country, really in turmoil now, and China as well.

Haiti and Venezuela, their collapse have been documented over the past years. But these are people fleeing exceptionally bad circumstances at home, who consider all things are relative, consider what's behind them to be much worse than what's ahead of them in this perilous jungle trek, Jim. ACOSTA: And, Nick, you also met a small boy from Haiti during your journey heading to Miami. Tell us about that. What is this like for kids?

WALSH: Yes. I mean, hoping to get to Miami, you know, it will be awesome. Do you want to go to America? He went. No, no, no. I want to go to Miami. And that sort of the sweet innocence you meet on this kind of route.

Now, he's five. At the point we met him, he had been separated from his parents because they had given him to a porter. The climbs are hard. If you can afford it, you'll pay someone to help carry your child up them, but they've been separated and we were concerned they wouldn't see each other again. Fortunately, two days later, as you'll see in the documentary, a little spoiler here, forgive me, but they do get reunited.

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But these are one of multiple children we saw upon this route. Some very sick. One child, Leuven (ph), also from Haiti, was carried by his father on the first night. He coughed throughout it. We could hear his intense coughing. It got worse. And then, miraculously, three days in, he got a lot better.

There was a 12-year-old girl from Venezuela, disabled, suffering from epileptic convulsions. Her mother was forced to leave Venezuela, she said, because she couldn't get the medicine she needed without traveling to Colombia. So, she took very dangerous step of taking her disabled child on this walk simply to get closer to medicine, she said.

So, children certainly at risk. Record numbers making this now, and that's just another sign of families who think that what's ahead of them in this dangerous trek is so much better than what's behind them. Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Nick, this looks amazing. It's appointment (ph) TV. Nick Paton Walsh, we'll all be watching. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Don't miss Nick's report, "The Trek: A Migrant Trail to America." It's the first installment of the new CNN program, "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper." It premieres tomorrow night at 8:00 right here on CNN.

Just ahead, the fallout continues from the historic intel leak. What were in those classified documents and what the nation's allies and adversaries are now saying. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

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