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Fighting Flares In Khartoum Despite 24-Hour Ceasefire; Vladimir Putin And Volodymyr Zelenskyy Visit Their Troops In Ukraine; Russia Cracking Down On Free Speech Amid War Effort; Fox News To Pay $787 Million To Dominion To Settle Defamation Case; At Least 21 Killed In Beijing Blaze; Afghans Describe Torture And Brutality Since Takeover. Japan to Release Treated Radioactive Wastewater Into Ocean. Aired 12- 1a ET
Aired April 19, 2023 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[00:00:27]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour here on CNN NEWSROOM. The ceasefire that never was. Heavy gunfire and artillery strikes rocks Sudan's capital as a 24-hour truce was meant to begin. U.N. now warning of a catastrophic humanitarian crisis.
Split screen machismo, the Ukrainian and Russian president makes separate journeys to meet troops not far from their frontlines.
And what could possibly go wrong? Japan set to pump more than a million cubic tons of radioactive waste water from the Fukushima nuclear power plant into the Pacific Ocean.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.
VAUSE: Thanks for being with us. It seems a 24-hour truce in Sudan ended before it even began with reports of no let-up in fighting despite two rival generals locked in a power struggle for control of the country agreeing to a ceasefire.
Witnesses report gunfire and explosions around the Army General Command building and presidential palace. The World Health Organization says at least 270 people have been killed since the fight have began on Saturday.
Sudan's military chief is battling the head of a paramilitary group for control of the country. Egypt's Foreign Minister says Cairo is in direct communication with both sides working towards a lasting ceasefire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: I think we have to concentrate at this stage and trying to encourage for a peaceful dialogue for an end to the conflict. And we must concentrate our efforts. And we do so in conjuncture and through our communications with the various neighboring countries and also those who have influence in the United States, our European friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Residents at the capital Khartoum describe chaos in the city, with many packing up their belongings and trying to flee.
Government have reportedly raided the homes of U.N. staff and other international groups sexually assaulting women and stealing cars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FARID AIYWAR, IFRC HEAD OF DELEGATION FOR SUDAN: The truth is that at the moment, it is almost impossible to provide any humanitarian services in and around Khartoum. They are called from various organization and people trapped asking for evacuation.
For the past four days, people have been out of water, food. Electricity has been rationed, in some places totally disconnected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Cameron Hudson is a Senior Associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies Africa Center. Cameron, thank you for taking the time to be with us.
CAMERON HUDSON, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES AFRICA CENTER (on camera): Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: OK. Well, the U.S. Secretary of State personally intervened in this crisis. Speaking with both rival generals on Tuesday, here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This morning, I made calls to Generals Burhan and Hemeti, urging them to agree to a 24 hour ceasefire to allow a Sudanese to safely reunite with their families and to obtain desperately needed relief supplies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: It seems in reality, that ceasefire didn't even really go into effect.
So, if they're not listening to the top diplomat in the world's only superpower, who will they listen to?
HUDSON: Well, it stands to question right now who they're going to listen to. You're right.
The Secretary of State has been working the phones really actively talking to the Egyptians, the Saudi Arabians and Emiratis, all of whom have a real stake in the game in Sudan, through both borders and through strategic investments in the country. They are the chief financiers, many of them of Sudan's economy.
So, they may have some sway over the Sudanese right now. But frankly, I think both of these generals, they want to fight it out. This fight has been brewing within Sudan for many years.
And certainly, in the last few weeks, it's been building to a kind of fever pitch. So, I think it's going to be very difficult to unwind this in the next few days.
VAUSE: Sort of words was echoed in many ways by the President of Egypt, who's warned that kind of the best approach here is essentially hands off, unless you make it all worse. Here's el-Sisi, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDEL FATTAH EL-SISI, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): What is happening in Sudan, we will describe it to you is a Sudanese internal matter and should not be interfered with, so as not to inappropriately lead to an exacerbation of the conflict within Sudan or the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Does that actually just mean leave the generals to have their way no matter how many civilians are killed? Is that really the best approach right now?
[00:05:03]
HUDSON: Well, it's certainly not the best approach, but it's clearly the approach that the Egyptians would like to see play out because they've put their thumb on the scale. They're aiding and assisting the Sudan armed forces to try to defeat the rapid support forces. Egypt does not want to have a militia leader leading a government on its southern border. It has a very close working relationship with the Sudanese army, it has trained most of their senior officer corps.
And in fact, General Burhan and General el-Sisi went to military academy together, so they know each other, they -- you know, see each other as brothers or cousins, as the case may be. And so, Egypt is not neutral party in this conflict right now.
VAUSE: And one of the problems with the let the matter approach seems to be this, here's the head of the WHO.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: There are disturbing reports of some health facilities being looted, and others being used for military purposes.
It's also reported that some hospitals are already closed, or on the brink of closure due to attacks and the lack of medical personnel and medical supplies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: That's after four days, how much longer do you think this will go off? Or how much worse is it going to get? HUDSON: Well, you know, the country is already on an -- on a knife's
edge. I mean, a third of the entire population, over 15 million people survive on international assistance already.
So, if those humanitarians can't circulate within the country, and the airport remains closed, the major roadways remain closed, the country is not going to survive for very much longer without getting new shipments of aid in.
And then of course, we have to worry about the urban residents, those living in Khartoum, a city of six million people, which is just not used to being deprived of vital assistance. You know, like any other urban dweller, if they can't turn on the tap to get water, then they have no other recourse.
And so, I think very quickly, you're going to start to see in a matter of days, people in urban centers really in a very tight situation, and no real way to get to them right now.
VAUSE: Yes, it seems it's going from bad to worse, it just seems day to day. So, Cameron, we appreciate your analysis. Thank you for being with us.
HUDSON: Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: With the possible stalemate on the battlefield, it seems the leaders of both Ukraine and Russia are trying for winning the which leader is more machismo than the other.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy traveled to a besieged city in the East surrounded on three sides by Russian forces, while Russian President Vladimir Putin visited occupied areas of Kherson and Luhansk directly asking senior commanders for their thoughts on where the Russian offensive stance.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has our report.
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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Two presidents, two different kinds of frontline visit rival leaders in Russia's war on Ukraine seeking to bolster troops in embattled territory facing very different problems.
President Putin making a rare trip outside of Russia to the partially occupied region of Kherson in video released by the Kremlin, he's pictured meeting senior commanders Monday.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It is important for me to listen to you, to hear your views to compare notes.
WALSH: Who he talks to is also important, apparently meeting a commander of elite paratroopers in what Western analysts say could be a bit to shore up their morale.
Any day now, Ukraine is expected to launch a counter offensive pretty much in the direction of where he's standing.
Putin also stopping in Luhansk also under pressure, and just last week, shifted on to Moscow's time zone. As Russia continues to assimilate places its war is ravaging.
Kyiv officials quick to seize on the visit to portray a person indicted for war crimes, returning to the scene describing the trip as a special tour of the occupied and destroyed territories by a mastermind of mass murderers to savor one last time the crimes committed by his people.
Zelenskyy perhaps enduring greater risk in his less rare journey to some of the worst hit parts of the eastern front. Visiting the almost completely destroyed town of Avdiivka, handing out awards to troops.
It won't yet be clear if he boosted morale enough to hold back the Russian forces now on three sides of the town.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Things happen thanks to you. Take care. Our future depends on you.
WALSH: Ukraine's losses are mounting, some of the injured visited by Zelenskyy in Donetsk region too.
Recent leaked documents apparently from the Pentagon suggested over 15,000 Ukrainian troops were dead and that they might run out of key air defense systems in the coming weeks.
[00:10:02]
Kyiv hopes its better equipment cause and planning may see success in this fight to counter offensive.
Two presidents, two wildly different souls, and one war still without end.
Nick Payton Walsh CNN, Eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Jailed Putin critic Alexei Navalny is facing new criminal charges and according to his lawyer, has been beaten in his cell. Navalny apparently refused to enter his cell after a prisoner with "hygiene problems" was moved there. Navalny apparently dragged that prisoner out of the cell, prison guard stepped in and struck Navalny.
The criminal charges which followed could add another five years to Navalny sentence if he is found guilty.
Detained Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich will have to stay behind bars after losing an appeal to change his terms of his detention while he awaits trial on espionage charges. Details now from CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's the first glimpse of Evan Gershkovich for weeks. The U.S. reporter accused in Russia of espionage. Standing arms folded behind the glass courtroom cage, even manages a smile for the cameras.
A few journalists call out their support, hold strong, one shouts, everyone sends you a big hello, the voice says after being hustled away.
But the court rejected an appeal for bail for Gershkovich to be kept under house arrest instead of in prison.
Outside, his lawyers spoke of how he was holding up behind bars. Reading classic Russian novels, one said and watching cooking shows on T.V.
But the U.S. ambassador was far more critical. Expressing her concerns at his confinement.
LYNNE TRACY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: I can only say how troubling it was to see Evan, an innocent journalists held in these circumstances. The charges against Evan are baseless, and we call on the Russian Federation to immediately release him.
CHANCE: Amid its brutal invasion of Ukraine, Russia has been stepping up its crackdown on free speech and dissent using the war as cover to silence independent journalism. Or to jail long standing critics like Vladimir Kara-Murza, sentenced to 25 years for treason just this week, after speaking out on the conflict.
VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA, RUSSIAN JOURNALIST: The war crimes, these are war crimes.
CHANCE: And the pressure is maintained behind bars.
Last month, supporters of Alexei Navalny, the jailed Russian anti- corruption campaigner, accused the authorities of poisoning the Kremlin critic again, this time at the penal colony.
Now his lawyers say he's been beaten up in his cell and faces new criminal charges.
It is against this backdrop. Evan Gershkovich remains detained in a Moscow prison, determined says lawyers to defend himself but utterly at the mercy of an increasingly authoritarian Russian state.
Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The jury was sworn in, lawyers ready for opening statements. But then, Fox News blinked, reaching a last minute settlement with Dominion voting systems and in the process avoided what would almost certainly be a week's long embarrassing trial.
Fox will pay more than $787 million to Dominion, about half of what was originally sold in damages by settling with Dominion, influential Fox News executives and prominent on air personalities will be spared from testifying about network's 2020 election coverage, which was filled with lies, lots of lies about voter fraud.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Electronic voting machines didn't allow people to vote apparently and that whatever you think of it, the cause of it. It shakes people's faith in the system that is an actual threat to democracy.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Sidney, we talked about the Dominion software. I know that there were voting irregularities, tell me about that.
JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL LEGAL ANALYST: The president's lawyers alleging a company called Dominion, which they say started in Venezuela with Cuban money and with the assistance of Smartmatic software, a backdoor is capable of flipping votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: None of that was true. They know it. As part of the agreement though, the right-wing network will not have to admit on air that it spread lies about Dominion.
CNN's Danny Freeman has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Just after the Judge announced that there was going to be a settlement in this case, I got to say, the Dominion attorneys were all smiles today as they left the courthouse and they left the -- and they left the press conference telling us that this was a good day for Dominion and a good day for democracy.
Now, this incredibly large settlement of $787 million was actually just less than half of what Dominion was initially asking for that, $1.6 billion figure, but of course, still a sizable number.
[00:15:12]
And I should say there was a lot of lead up actually to this settlement. The jury was sworn in Tuesday morning, opening statements were ready to go. 1:30 in the afternoon.
But then after a mysterious 2-1/2 hour delay, finally, the judge came back and said that there would be a resolution to this case, the parties came together and they settled.
And the judge even said to the jury, if you weren't there, the parties probably would not have been able to reach a settlement in this case, the judge made that announcement, and then Dominion came out and take a listen to what some of their attorneys had to say. JUSTIN NELSON, LAWYER FOR DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS: The truth does not know red or blue. People across the political spectrum can and should disagree on issues, even of the most profound importance.
But for our democracy to endure for another 250 years, and hopefully much longer, we must share a commitment to facts.
FREEMAN: Now, in contrast, the attorneys for Fox News, they did not take any questions from the press. They just walked down the street here in Wilmington, but they did release a statement later on saying in part, we are pleased to have reached a settlement of our dispute with Dominion voting systems. We acknowledge the court's rulings finding certain claims about Dominion being false. This settlement reflects Fox's continued commitment to the highest journalistic standards.
So again, we're still waiting for certain details about the settlement. But as of now, we do know that Fox does not intend to make any statement on its air about these false claims about Dominion. But again, we'll wait and see if that changes in the future.
Danny Freeman, CNN, Wilmington, Delaware.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Still to come on CNN, a deadly fire sweeps through a hospital in Beijing. Patients tying bed sheets together to try and escape the blaze, details on that live report when we come back.
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VAUSE: Welcome back. 11 Indonesian fishermen are safe after being stranded on an Australian island for nearly a week without food or water. The boats were destroyed last week by tropical cyclone Ilsa, according to the Australian Maritime Safety Authority.
And they went up stuck on the small island of Bedwell of Australia's northwestern coast. The fishermen were luckily spotted by an Australian Border Force aircraft during a planned surveillance mission.
Authorities say at least eight other people from another fishing boat are still unaccounted for.
At least 21 people have died at a hospital fire in Beijing Tuesday, one of the deadliest in the city in years.
CNN's Kristie Lu Stout live for us in Hong Kong. This was sort of in the heart of Beijing, a black smoke could be seen rising above the city. You know, government centers have been removing online posts about the fire.
So, what do we know about that as well as these dramatic sort of rescue attempts or escapes if you like?
[00:20:01] KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, very dramatic and frightening video of that has been released and widely circulating on social media for people across China and around the world to see.
What we know is this, at least 21 people are dead after a fire erupted in a hospital in Beijing on Tuesday.
According to state run news media, we know that the fire broke out at around 1:00 p.m. local time on Tuesday, was extinguished about half an hour later.
71 patients were evacuated but tragically many did not make it. Now, this video that we're sharing with you right now, it shows you one person was able to exit the hospital through window using a bed sheet, this person climbed down the window, lands on a roof like structure, scrambles across to the rooftop of a neighboring building for relative safety.
But later in this clip, which was widely circulated on social media in China, we see others attempting to exit. You could see them there perching perilously on these air conditioning units outside waiting for help.
And CNN we were not able to confirm, we do not know whether these people were rescued or not.
This hospital fire was one of the most deadliest to strike Beijing in recent years. That death toll surpasses the fire that broke out in the Daxing district of Beijing in 2017, which took the lives of about 19 people that happen in a crowded and cramped building housing migrant workers and it prompted authorities to crack down and demolish these illegal structures.
Now, according to state run news media, they say that top officials were able to visit the site of the latest fire, the fire took place at this hospital in Beijing on Tuesday, including the Communist Party chief of Beijing, and he issued this statement, let's bring it up for you.
Yin Li saying this, "The fire is heartbreaking. The lesson is extremely profound. It sounded the alarm for us, reminding us that the string of safe production cannot be loosened even for a moment. And the elimination of fire hazards cannot be stopped for a moment."
But official Chinese media did not report on this incident until many, many hours after the fire broke out and was extinguished. And that has prompted a really angry outcry and much criticism on social media in China, including this from a user on Weibo who points out "The incident happened after 12:00 p.m. afternoon local time, not a single media outlet reported on the breaking news at the time, nearly 10 hours later, after 9:00 p.m., state media start to release standardized press releases". Goes on to say "The media has now basically become copy machines for standardized press releases".
A hospital fires are rare in China, the investigation as to how this one took place. What caused it, that is still underway. Back to you, John.
VAUSE: Yes, it seems it's always kind of been like that. It's just maybe getting a little bit worse than ever before. People are more aware of these things to begin with.
So Kristie, thank you for that report. We appreciate it. Kristie Lu Stout live for us in Hong Kong.
We'll take a short break. When we come back, in prison, tortured, public floggings, just part of daily life under the Taliban rule in Afghanistan, which is set to get worse. And we'll explain why in a moment.
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VAUSE: Welcome back, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm John Vause.
The Taliban's weird obsession with removing women from public view set across Afghanistan daily with a new U.N. report predicting international aid will fall dramatically this year, which will worsen an already catastrophic economic crisis.
U.S. Development Agency says if international aid falls by 30 percent, Afghanistan's GDP will contract by 0.4 percent.
And so far, the humanitarian aid plan is only five percent funded for this year, per capita annual incomes could fall to just over $300 next year, which would mark a 40 percent drop since a year before the Taliban took over.
The U.N. warns there'll be no escape from poverty without women in the workplace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDALLAH AL DARDARI, U.N. DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME: The engagement continues. We speak to them every day. And we present the numbers that we are presenting to them, showing how detrimental the absence of women in public life, education and work is to the future of the Afghan economy.
But at the moment, we don't see any positive response.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Women's rights are among the many policies that Taliban have dismantled since taking power, rolling back two decades of progress on human rights as well.
Ordinary Afghans are describing all sorts of brutality is committed by their Islamic rulers.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER (voice over): He was tortured by the Taliban, he says, just for reporting the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was thinking of death every moment. I thought this is the last day of my life, he says.
ABDELAZIZ: Last December, 30 Taliban fighters stormed journalist Abdullah Nouri's (ph) home in the Afghan city of Taleqan, the men beat him over and over with the butt of their rifles, then arrested him, allegedly for publishing anti-Taliban propaganda.
I told them I'm a journalist, I report the truth, whether that's against the Taliban or anyone else, but they wouldn't stop, he says. They said call your mother so she can hear you scream.
As the Taliban seize control in the summer of 2021, thousands of terrified families flocked to the Kabul airport, desperate to escape what they knew of the group's barbaric rule.
But the Taliban vowed reform, pledging to be more progressive than their last time in power.
Instead, the group quickly fell back on its old playbook, rule by fear, repress without mercy.
The group ordered judges to fully impose its extremist interpretation of Islamic law that includes public executions, floggings, and amputations.
And in December, it carried out the first known public execution, an alleged murder was shot three times in a public square.
And over the course of just two months, the Taliban carried out floggings against more than 180 men, women and children according to the U.N.
Like this one, the secretly recorded video shows the Taliban militants flogging a man in a football stadium. Other accused criminals await their punishment with onlookers in the stands.
And any perceived dissent against their rule is met with brutality. Zafri (ph) agreed to speak to CNN on condition of anonymity. He was imprisoned by the group for allegedly joining an anti-Taliban military alliance, a charge he denies.
They shoved a water pipe down my throat, they tied a bag around my head, he says. They sat on my belly and ordered me to confess that I'm a member of the resistance forces.
After four months of torture, in detention, Zafri was released, he now lives in hiding. His repeated attempts to flee Afghanistan have failed.
Countless Afghans have attempted the same, risking their lives to find safety away from their brutalized homeland, a perilous journey that has claimed many lives.
Like that of Afghan female journalist or Torpekai Amarkhel, she was among more than 60 migrants who drowned at sea when their ship sank off the coast of Italy.
Fortunately, Nouri (ph) has made it out alive with his family after his release. Now a refugee in Pakistan, he still lives in fear.
I'm not safe in Pakistan, he says, anything can happen here, anything.
But those left behind remain hopeful that the international community will hear their pleas, even if raising their --
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): -- anything. But those left behind remain hopeful that the international community will hear their pleas, even if raising their voice means risking their lives.
[00:30:13]
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: CNN has reached out to the Taliban for a response on the claims of detention and torture. Here's a surprise. We have not received a response.
When we come back, when the Tokyo Electric Power Company says "trust us," many have good reason to ask, Really? Why?
Now the company says -- the company, which owns Fukushima nuclear power plant, says there's nothing to fear, with more than a million cubic tons of radioactive waste water about to be pumped into the Pacific Ocean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Railroad tracks that brought so many --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Thousands of people from around the world took part in a March of the Living Tuesday in Poland to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust. Forty-two Holocaust survivors joined the three-kilometer walk line -- walk lining -- linking, sorry, the former Nazi concentration camps of Auschwitz and Birkenau.
More than one million people, most of them Jews, died in the gas chambers or from starvation, cold and disease at Auschwitz alone.
At some point in the next few months, Japan will begin releasing more than a million tons of treated reactive waste water into the Pacific Ocean from the failed Fukushima nuclear power plant. Tanks which store the water are now close to capacity.
Three nuclear reactors melted down there after a 9.8 magnitude earthquake 12 years ago. Now CNN's Marc Stewart spoke with the fishermen who can be directly impacted by this move.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's just after 9 in the morning. The crew of this ship is back in port at the Onahama fishing village in Fukushima, Japan.
Kenzaburo Shiga (ph) is a third-generation fisherman, starting in elementary school, going on trips with his father. He told me he's happy on the boat, but he faces challenges.
His catch is tested for radiation. That's because the port is around 40 miles from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
In 2011, there was a meltdown here after a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami. For six years, he couldn't fish, told to stay off the water.
When he heard he couldn't fish, he was sad, disappointed the ocean was off-limits.
STEWART: Twelve years later, fishermen face yet another challenge. Treated wastewater that accumulated inside the plant will soon be released into the ocean, a threat to their reputation and way of life.
STEWART (voice-over): He says the decision made his blood boil. He wonders why the government made the decision without the consent of the fishermen.
At the time, the prime minister said it had to be done to decommission the plant. We wanted to see the plant for ourselves, and we were allowed to after agreeing to a strict safety protocol.
[00:35:05]
STEWART: This is as close as we can get to reactors one through four. The cleanup work here will take at least 20 more years.
STEWART (voice-over): We also saw a lab where fish are tested. And lots of construction on the water treatment facility.
STEWART: Let me show you the tanks behind me. row after row, enough to feel about 500 Olympic swimming pools. The treated water will be let go gradually through a tunnel that will take it off-shore and then eventually into the ocean.
STEWART (voice-over): According to the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, the water has been treated by taking out most of the radioactive particles. It's then diluted with seawater, taking it to a level much lower than the World Health Organization's clean drinking water standard.
An official from the utility told us he recognizes there's distrust because of the past. But they're listening to concerns. He knows not everyone will accept their plan, but points out the support they're getting from third parties, such as The International Atomic Energy Agency.
Still, neighboring countries have expressed concern.
STEWART: Is there a public health risk by releasing this water?
IAN FAIRLIE, RADIOACTIVE CONSULTANT: Yes, there is a public health risk. It's relatively low, but they -- the risk exists. I think that they should store the water so that it decay is naturally.
STEWART (voice-over): While other options were considered, this was seen as the best plan as tanks near capacity.
Japan's Pacific coast has been a point of pride and promise for fishermen like Kenzaburo (ph). He says he doesn't know what will happen, but hopes leaders won't work against the fishermen.
The water release is expected to begin by the summer, bringing with it more years of anxiety and uncertainty.
Marc Stewart, CNN, Fukushima, Japan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Jeffrey Lewis is the director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies.
Jeffrey, thank you for taking the time to be with us.
JEFFREY LEWIS, DIRECTOR, EAST ASIA NONPROLIFERATION PROGRAM, MIDDLEBURY INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: It's a pleasure.
VAUSE: Right. So the National Association of Marine Laboratories laid out its objections based on scientific grounds in a position paper last December, and here's part of it.
"The supporting data provided by the Tokyo Electric Power Company and the Japanese government are insufficient and, in some cases, incorrect, with flaws in sampling protocols, statistical design, sample analysis and assumptions, which in turn lead to flaws in the conclusion of safety and prevent a more thorough evaluation of better alternative approaches to disposal."
Apart from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
So when someone says, Trust me, I'm from Tokyo Electric, or says something like this, what you're about to hear, in the days after the nuclear meltdown -- here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TSUNEHISA KATSUMATA, THEN-CEO, TOKYO ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY (through translator): We are very sorry for causing troubles and concerns to the international community, and we are making efforts to get more updates out to people overseas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Causing trouble like covering up safety problems in the past. Why believe them, especially when independent scientists say they're kind of full of it?
LEWIS: Well, I think this is the fundamental problem. You know, there is no really good way to dispose of this waste water. And so it's not unusual to -- to release it into the ocean once it's been treated and try to dilute it.
But you have to do it right.
And one of the challenges I think we face is that there are these longstanding questions about whether TEPCO does things right.
So, you know, this is really one of those situations where I think you want to measure twice and cut once and really proceed very, very carefully.
VAUSE: Greenpeace has similar concerns, as well, especially when it comes to that treatment process, while adding this: "Viable alternatives to discharge, specifically, long-term storage and processing, have been ignored by the Japanese government."
Why ignore any option here? Why does it always seem to be the same plan: dumped the toxic whatever it is into the ocean, walk away and pretend it never happened?
LEWIS: Well, I think that the kind of -- the fundamental outlook for this kind of thing is reflected in the thing that nuclear engineers say, which is the solution is dilution.
So this is a -- this is a long-established practice. And I think it's very hard to get people to consider alternatives when we typically go about something in -- in the same way.
I think TEPCO ultimately doesn't want to be responsible for keeping this water. They want to be rid of it. And I think you can, if you do it right, dispose of the water in this way.
But then it gets back to this fundamental issue, which is, I think that there has been a real loss of trust in TEPCO. Because, you know, frankly, the decisions that they made put us in the position that we have this accident in the first place.
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So you know, I definitely understand the concerns: wanting to make sure that, really, they have done the due diligence.
VAUSE: Because one of the concerns raised, especially by Greenpeace. When they say this will not be a 30-year-long process. This is going to go on for decades. This could go well on for a century here. And I guess when you get into that sort of period of time with this
much sort of toxic water, which they say has been reprocessed and all of this, but is it possible to know all of the outcomes here, all the dangers and all the concerns?
LEWIS: Well, I think that you can theoretically reassure yourself that if you do it right, it will be fine. But ultimately, there is this fundamental issue that you can't put too much of the water out too quickly. You have to really make sure it's properly treated, and you have to release it relatively slowly.
So you know, I think at a -- at a fundamental level, it all comes back to do you have faith in the regulatory processes that -- that are in place?
And I completely understand why people have real cautions and want to make sure that this is being done right. Because you know, in the past, things have not always been done right.
VAUSE: And just very, very quickly, because we are releasing this radioactive, or treated radioactive waste water, into an ocean which is under stress from overfishing, from climate change, from a whole bunch of issues which we haven't really seen before. I guess that's one of the other questions that people have here: has all that been taken into account?
LEWIS: Yes, you know, I think that the thing with radiation is that we do live with low levels of background radiation, and so you know, it is at -- at a fundamental level, if you can dilute, if you can go about it in a cautious way, it should not have these kinds of problems.
But you know, then again, it brings us back to this fundamental issue with trust. And so again, I -- I know I'm reassured by the science when I look at it, but there is this human element.
And so I really understand and am very sympathetic to the concerns of people, you know, who think like, well, you know, do you really have to do this right now?
VAUSE: Yes. Jeffrey, thank you so much for your perspective. It's a good one to have, so we appreciate it. Thank you.
LEWIS: My pleasure.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. Back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM, but first, please stay with us. WORLD SPORT starts after a short break. See you back here in 17 minutes, 45 seconds.
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