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CNN International: Former U.S. Vice President Pence Testifies to Grand Jury; Prosecutors Call Teixeira a Flight Risk, Still a Threat; DeSantis Dismissing Suit Alleging Governmental Retaliation; Ukrainian Rescue Efforts Underway After Barrage of Russian Strikes; U.S. Economy; Complaints About Not Enough Help for American in Sudan. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired April 28, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Max Foster. Joining you live from London. Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Vice President Mike Pence testified before a federal grand jury on Thursday for more than five hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest numbers show that the U.S. economy grew at an annualized rate of 1.1 percent in the first quarter of 2023.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never in 1 million years did I imagine that as an American citizen my parents would be left to fend for themselves in a war zone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: It is Friday, April 28th, 9:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m. in Washington. Where it's another first for the former U.S. President, Donald Trump, like most of the others it's not a good one.

NOBILO: Never before in modern history has a vice president been compelled to testify about his direct conversations with the president that he served. That's the situation Mike Pence found himself in on Thursday before a grand jury in Washington. CNN's Katelyn Polantz has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME INJUSTICE REPORTER: Former Vice President Mike Pence testified before federal grand jury on Thursday for more than five hours. That testimony would have been about what happened after the 2020 election leading up to January 6th. All of those conversations, he directly would have had with Donald Trump, the president at the time, at a time when Donald Trump was pressuring him to overturn the vote. Pence refused to do so. Pence has also spoken about those conversations publicly. Is written about them in his book that he has been on a tour about now. He is talking about them really regularly. But never before has an investigation, has a grand jury and have prosecutors gotten Pence under oath to reveal exactly what he thought, what he felt, and what was said to between him and Donald Trump on those crucial days as part of this investigation.

So, this is a really significant moment in the January 6th criminal investigation being led by special counsel Jack Smith at the Justice Department. It is also quite a momentous moment in history. There was never before been a vice president called to testify under subpoena about the president they served alongside. That didn't happen in Watergate with Richard Nixon, it did not happen with Whitewater with Bill Clinton, which both had very active grand juries. So, this is different.

It also is a very crucial moment putting Mike Pence here, because of the Justice Department had to fight for this testimony. They went to court over this. Donald Trump tried to block the testimony. He tried to limit what Pence could say about the direct conversations. He lost those court battles. Mike Pence also went to court to fight on this and did not want to testify under subpoena. But he did get a little bit of leeway from the court, being able to protect what he was doing when he was the presiding officer on January 6th.

But today, that federal grand jury did hear from Mike Pence for more than five hours, one-on-one, the grand jurors would have been able to ask him questions. They would've been able to piece him into the investigation. A very active investigation that they have heard from many, many witnesses on. And how the prosecutors will take that testimony and see how it fits, try and fit it in to potential charges as they look towards the future. It will become at least part of the record of what will now be known about January 6th to the Justice Department and potentially to the public later on.

Katelyn Polantz, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: CNN spoke earlier with civil rights attorney Areva Martin. We asked her how crucial Pence's testimony is and what might the grand jury learn from him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Even though that this has been on a book tour, even though he's written about what happened leading up to January 6th in his book, that's very different than testifying under oath before a grand jury. The grand jury -- in that grand jury proceeding, they get to learn details that I would imagine have not been disclosed in that book. You know how long were meetings with Donald Trump? Exactly what he said. What Mike Pence said in response. This is a dramatic turn of events.

[04:05:00]

We know that Mike Pence resisted any efforts to -- that were aimed at trying to get him to give his testimony before a grand jury, or before the January 6th Committee. So, this is a significant development. And it just shows how the special counsel that's been appointed to this case has really been a lot more aggressive in this investigation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now, the suspect in the Pentagon leaks case will remain in jail for now as a judge considers bail. Prosecutors call 21-year-old Jack Teixeira a risk to national security with a history of violent threats.

NOBILO: And they say that he may still have access to top secret documents. CNN's Oren Liebermann reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, 21- year-old Jack Teixeira in custody, after appearing in court for his detention hearing. Prosecutors portrayed the suspected leaker of classified documents as a risk to flee, incapable of the trust he promised to uphold as a member of the Massachusetts International Guard.

There is no integrity to share his character because there can be none when there is such a profound breach of trust, said Nadine Pellegrini from the U.S. attorney's office.

In a dumpster at the Teixeira's home, authorities found a tablet, a laptop and an Xbox. They'd all been smashed. Prosecutors said it was a way of stopping them from fully understanding the seriousness and scale of Teixeira's conduct.

BRIG. GEN. PAT RYDER, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: The department is looking not only at our intelligence processes and procedures as it relates to security or sensitive information and, who has that information. But also looking at the process by which we clear and vet individual for security clearances. And that work is ongoing.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Authorities say he had an arsenal of weapons just feet from his bed including rifles. AR and AK style weapons and a bazooka. His room was decked out in military camel and paraphernalia.

In a recent online chat, uncovered by investigators, Teixeira said he would kill an (expletive) ton of people. Because it would be culling the weak minded. And that he wanted to make an assassination van. He also asked another user what type of rifle would be good to conduct a shooting in a crowded urban or suburban environment.

Teixeira's lawyers argued in court that he poses no danger and is not unique in collecting weapons. Some people are car guys, some people like boats, and some people like

guns, his attorney said in court, defending his client. As the Pentagon defended the process that led here.

The leaked documents have exposed classify U.S. intel including about the war in Ukraine. Documents have revealed the limitations of Ukraine's air defenses and manpower. While also detailing Russia's efforts to recruit more troops to plug its military's ranks.

Valuable info, the prosecutor say other countries would covet. And authorities warn that Teixeira may still have more sensitive information hidden away and could still be capable of causing extraordinary damage to U.S. national security.

LIEBERMANN: Teixeira remains in custody at the point. The judge didn't rule on whether he would be kept in custody yet. That ruling is expected soon. But the judge may have given an indication which way he was leaning when he said he found the prosecutions evidence, quote, fairly compelling.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, in the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Florida Governor, Ron DeSantis who is on the international trip is dismissing concerns over legal action been taken against him by one of the state's largest employers.

FOSTER: The Walt Disney Company filed a suit against DeSantis on Wednesday accusing him and several other officials of using their political power for a campaign of governmental retaliation. Our Leyla Santiago has the story.

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LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While on this international trip Governor Ron DeSantis had to answer questions about Disney. While at a press conference in Jerusalem, he responded to reporters saying that he's pretty much dismissing this lawsuit. But much of what he said as to why is something that he has repeated in the past saying that Disney does not deserve any sort of special privileges despite being one of the most popular employers here in this state. Listen.

RON DESANTIS (R) FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I don't think the suit has merit. I think it's political. They've been treated much different then Universal, SeaWorld and all these other places. And so, they're upset because they're actually having to live by the same rules as everybody else.

SANTIAGO: The governor is calling it political and so in Disney. In this 77-page lawsuit, filed in federal court, Wednesday, Disney calls this a targeted campaign of government retaliation and says it is a violation of their First Amendment right.

So, let's back up to talk about how we even got here. You see, this all started with what critics have dubbed the "don't say gay bill." Which was a Bill that sort of limited how sexual orientation and gender identity can be discussed in Florida classrooms. Disney spoke out against that and that is one of the very public battles in suit.

After that passed, Florida passed legislation to strip the company of its special taxing district that gives Disney control over things like who repairs the roads.

[04:10:00]

Once Florida stripped Disney up those powers Governor Ron DeSantis announced that he would be appointing his allies to that board.

Now, before that happened, the outgoing board which has strong ties to Disney, struck an agreement with Disney to retain control. Once DeSantis's allies got in there, they said, uh, uh, no way, this does not have legal standings and they voted to get rid of it. Minutes after that vote is when Disney filed its lawsuit in federal court. Asking a federal judge to undo what has been done so they can retain control of that taxing district.

So now the legal battle ensues and we will wait to hear from a federal judge.

Leyla Santiago, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: The U.S. Speaker of the House is joining the list of Republicans, pushing DeSantis to end this ongoing feud. Kevin McCarthy says DeSantis needs to negotiate with Disney. But the Florida governor has said that he might instead retaliate against the company by building a state prison next to Walt Disney World in Orlando.

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: I don't think the idea of building a prison next to a place that you bring your families, is the best idea. I think it will be much better if you sat down and solved the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Lest we forget, of course, Disney does have its own jail. Or at least a holding cell.

FOSTER: That's true because it was in charge of that area so it needed a holding place.

McCarthy isn't the only one speaking out against the anti-Disney campaign. Several of DeSantis's potential rivals for the Republican presidential nomination have also been critical of his ongoing battle with the company now.

More than the 55 million people in the southern U.S., could be impacted by two storms on Friday. This comes after days of tornado reports, damaging wind gusts and large hail as well. Those images on social were quite something, weren't they?

NOBILO: Staggering -- the size of those hail.

FOSTER: On Thursday officials clocked winds, as strong as 76 miles per hour across Florida. Golf ball sized hail were also spotted in that state.

And now at least seven tornadoes are reported. Officials say one touched down in Hosford, Florida that left down trees and power lines in its wake. The tornado also destroyed about a dozen homes and damaged 20 others. No injuries were reported.

NOBILO: Areas along the upper Mississippi River could be dealing with flooding issues until the middle of next month. Officials warn that ongoing snow melt has caused the river to rise higher than usual. And if more rain falls before the river drop significantly there could be substantial flooding.

The town of Davenport, Iowa is already seeing rising waters and preparing for the worst. Flooding in 2019 broke a temporary barrier in the downtown area, swamping many buildings.

And voluntary evacuations are happening in some parts of Wisconsin as the river has sent water spilling into some homes and basements.

Still to come, yet another shaky cease fire incident in Sudan, as thousands of people flee the country. But Americans are not getting as much help getting out.

FOSTER: Plus, rescue teams racing against time after several Russians airstrikes across Ukraine. I will the latest on emergency efforts after residential areas were hit by rocket fire.

NOBILO: And later, new revelations about ousted Fox News host, Tucker Carlson, alleged pattern of offenses, and sexist comments towards women. That's coming, up ahead.

[04:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Ukraine says rescue operations are underway after a barrage of Russian strikes across the country.

Air raid sirens in Kyiv just a few hours ago, officials say air defense systems shot down more than a dozen missiles and drones over the capital. The city still took some damage though. There were no reports of civilian casualties.

NOBILO: But three other cities across Ukraine have also been struck, with at least 12 people killed, more than a dozen wounded. This video shows the city of Uman where a high rise building partially collapsed, and some residents were pulled from that rubble.

FOSTER: Scott's been monitoring all of this. Obviously, the air defenses are pretty effective, but they can't always be effective. SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is right, so in Kyiv they

released the numbers. So, 21 out of 23 incoming missiles were shot down according to authorities there. But obviously, as you point out, some things get through.

It is hard to know in this case what military targets they may have actually been aiming at, since we're seeing a lot of these have landed in residential areas. So, in the city of Dnipro for instance we know there was a 31-year-old mother and her two-year-old child that were killed -- according to the mayor there. Three others were injured in the town of Ukrainka, which is essentially a suburb of Kyiv about 30 miles, 45 kilometers or so, south of the central part of the city.

There was fragments from a missile that had been shot down. We presume that it hit an apartment building, a 13-year-old girl was injured there. But the most dramatic pictures were the ones that you mentioned in the city of Uman, which is 125 miles south of Kyiv. And it is, I should point out, nowhere near the front lines. We're talking about a place that is not used to this kind of destruction from war, certainly not at least on a regular basis.

And so, there ten people have been killed, including a child, more have been injured, hospitalized. The death toll may yet still rise as they pull bodies out from the rubble. There's also one person in critical condition in the hospital. And when you look at these pictures it is pretty difficult to imagine them pulling out anyone alive considering the scale of destruction that we're talking about. I mean, it looks like the missile literally dropped straight down in from the sky and took out virtually every floor on its way down. There have been people pulled out, but most recently they have been pulling out bodies. Here is what one resident on the site has said.

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OLHA, APARTMENT BLOCK RESIDENT (through translator): My daughter's classmate lived on the ninth floor of the destroyed apartment block. I don't know. Praise God they are alive. It is a great tragedy.

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[04:20:00]

MCLEAN: President Zelenskyy has also reacted to this. He put out a statement saying in part: The Russian terror must face a fair response from Ukraine and the world, and it will. Every such attack, every evil act against our country and people brings the terrorist state closer to failure and punishment.

What's also interesting here, guys, is that the Ukrainian Air Force actually put out brand new pictures showing their newest Patriot air defense system supplied by the West. This is the second one that they say is operational inside of the country. But, you know, as we talked about earlier, clearly no air defense system is perfect, even when you have the most sophisticated air defense system being supplied from the West.

FOSTER: Scott, thank you very much indeed.

NOBILO: The war in Ukraine is expected to be on the agenda when Pope Francis meets with Hungarian leaders in the coming hours. The Pope has just landed in Budapest for a three-day visit to Hungary. He's set to meet with nations right-wing Prime Minister Viktor Orban, in additional to civil society leaders and local clergy. The Vatican says the Pontiff wants to show his commitment to a more fraternal society in a Europe that is wounded by war.

FOSTER: The Pope's visit comes a few weeks after a health scare. So, people are looking to see how he looks, really. The 86-year-old Pontiff spent several nights in the hospital for bronchitis.

NOBILO: We are getting reports of heavy fire in Sudan even though a new cease-fire is supposed to be underway. And the White House is urging Americans who want to leave the country to do so in the next two days.

But it's making it clear that the U.S. military won't be airlifting them out, even though other nations seem to have no issues doing that for their citizens. CNN's Kylie Atwood spoke to frustrated Americans with loved ones in Sudan who are desperate to escape.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MUNA DAOUD, AMERICAN PARENTS TRAPPED IN SUDAN: Never in a million years did I imagine that as American citizens, my parents would be left to defend for themselves in a war zone.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Muna Daoud describes the harrowing story of her parents, American citizens, trying to make their way out of Sudan. After a 12-hour bus ride from Khartoum to Port Sudan, during which her father was held at gunpoint by one of the country's warring armies, they found no support for U.S. citizens.

DAOUD: No American presence, no American assistance, no signage anywhere to tell them where to go.

ATWOOD (voice-over): Arriving at the gates of this hotel, they showed their U.S. passports but received no shelter.

DAOUD: They told her, oh, no, no, no, you have to wait. Without providing lodging, assistance, food, water, my father is running low on his medication that he needs for both his heart condition and his blood pressure.

ATWOOD (voice-over): Other travelers have descended upon Sudan's border with Egypt. Some finally finding water. But others, including Americans, not so lucky.

MAISOUN SULFAB, AMERICAN FAMILY MEMBERS TRAPPED IN SUDAN: The wait time at the border is many days. Children are crying, and they're just laying on the ground. It's a desert.

IMAD, SON OF AMERICANS TRAPPED IN SUDAN: They're stuck at the border. There's no water. There's no food. The border is essentially a humanitarian crisis. And it is -- there're not only Americans who are facing this issue.

ATWOOD (voice-over): Imad and Lila are an American couple living in California. Like Muna, they are deeply frustrated by the lack of U.S. government support in these dangerous and complex conditions, as they've tried to assist their parents' escape.

IMAD: We contacted them on numerous occasions, asking for just the bare minimum help. Just let us know if you are going to help us, please let us know that you are going to help.

ATWOOD (voice-over): U.S. officials say it's more dangerous to carry out a government-led evacuation from the country right now than to have American citizens join the overland caravans.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We are in contact with Americans who have registered with us in one way or another, and very active contact.

ATWOOD (voice-over): But Daoud paints a different picture.

DAOUD: The only communication was to somehow make your way to Port Sudan because that seemed kind of very vague, and it seems like different people -- different Americans are getting different information.

ATWOOD (voice-over): And in recent days, many other countries around the world, including the U.K., India, and Germany, have flown their citizens out of the country.

DAOUD: I'm just appalled and frankly, disgusted that European nations are able to coordinate evacuations of their citizens, but somehow Americans are left to fend for themselves.

ATWOOD: Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Thursday that the U.S. believes the best way to have an enduring capability to get Americans out of the country remains on those overland routes. Even while other countries are flying their citizens out of the country.

We also got an update from one of the women that we spoke to for this piece, Maisoun Sulfab. She told us that one of her family members who is elderly and also an American citizen has passed away after making that treacherous journey to the border to try and get out of the country.

Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:25:00]

NOBILO: Let's get the latest now on the state of the cease-fire. CNN's David McKenzie is live from Johannesburg. David, how fragile is this cease-fire, and I just wonder, also, how intractable of the situation this is, given the objectives of both sides being diametrically opposed.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, there are totally intractable, Bianca. And just something that touches on Kylie's reporting there, is just in the last few minutes, the Turkish government has confirmed that a C-130 transport plane flying into an airport north of Khartoum was shot on by unknown forces with small arms fire it seems. No one was injured. They were able to land. But it does speak to the danger of using those aerial routes to evacuate citizens.

So far, with that cease-fire though, it has been broken several times. There have been moments of calm that have allowed foreign nationals to get out via air, and on the road.

But the fundamental issue is exactly as you describe. These two sides show no sign of stopping their fighting, and even with them both on paper agreeing to cease-fires, those cease-fires, at least overnight into the morning, according to multiple eyewitnesses, have not been held.

This is despite the significant outside pressure from the African Union, from the East African Block. Just this morning the Prime Minister of Ethiopia, Abiy Ahmed, said he spoke to the leaders of both of those groups. And you also had Secretary Blinken meeting with the Secretary-General of the United Nations Antonio Guterres in the U.S. He said they are trying everything they can to stop this conflict.

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BLINKEN: We are working very closely together to deal with the crisis in Sudan. Hopefully working towards a more ensuring cease-fire, a cessation of hostilities and helping to put Sudan back on the track it was on to civilian-led governments. While dealing with I think an increasingly challenging humanitarian situation there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: All attempts to get the two leaders to sit face-to-face, or even a protracted cease-fire have not succeeded at this point -- Bianca? Max.

NOBILO: David McKenzie for us in Johannesburg. Thank you so much.

FOSTER: A developing story we are following this hour. The U.S. Army says three soldiers were killed after two military helicopters crashed near Healy, Alaska. Another soldier was injured and is being treated at a hospital. The army says the two AH-64 Apache choppers were returning from a training flight at the time of the crash.

NOBILO: An ex-Fox News producer is speaking out about pervasive sexism while working on Tucker Carlson's show team. The details on that, ahead.

FOSTER: Plus, the U.S. economy shifts into slower gear as the nation tries to get inflation under control. We'll have the latest GDP numbers and explaining what it means for future interest rates.