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Manhunt Intensifies After 5 Killed, Including 8-year-old; 2 Teens Killed, 4 Others Wounded In House Party Shooting; FDIC Running Auction To Buy First Republic Bank; Wagner Mercenaries Running Out Of Ammunition In Bakhmut; Tornado Rips Through Florida Community; Hollywood Braces For Potential Writers' Strike This Week; Pressure Mounts On Supreme Court To Embrace Ethics Reforms. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 30, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:25]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Armed and dangerous -- that's how police in Texas are describing a suspect in a horrific mass shooting. 38-year-old Francisco Oropeza has not been seen since Friday night's attack in Cleveland, Texas.

Investigators say he opened fire on his neighbors when they asked him to stop shooting his rifle outside so that their baby could sleep. Five people were killed, including an 8-year-old.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is there in Cleveland, Texas. Ed, where does this manhunt stand right now?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we haven't gotten any updates from law enforcement. The FBI has taken over this investigation and obviously multiple numbers of agencies, law enforcement agencies here in the state of Texas continuing the search for, as you mentioned, 32-year-old (SIC) Francisco Oropeza. There have been several pictures put out of him, as they are urging the public to call in if they have any sightings of him.

At this point, it's not clear where he might be if he's in this area or if he's been able to get farther away.

But this is the neighborhood where all of this happened. The house you see right here behind me, that's where ten people were inside and the five victims were killed.

And this is the property line right here. This is where Oropeza lived. This is his house. And as we stood here this morning, there's a long chain link fence that kind of separates the two properties, as we've been reporting.

This is the area where presumably Oropeza was firing off his guns on Friday night. And so it's not clear if he jumped the fence or if he came out here through his front gate and then made his way back towards where the family was at this house. Those kinds of details, we're not exactly clear on at this point.

But right now, the main focus and the intensity of this investigation is trying to find out where this suspect might be. Officials here and investigators have said the trail went cold yesterday.

WHITFIELD: My goodness. I mean, Ed, the entire community must be rattled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF GREG CAPERS, SAN JACINTO COUNTY, TEXAS: -- from Texas Department of Corrections picked up the scent and then they lost that scent in the water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Sorry, Fredricka. You heard there from the sheriff here in San Jacinto County describing last night how they had found some clothing, a cell phone that belonged to the suspect. But as they got into some water around here, the trail went cold.

So that's why they are putting out more pictures of this suspect, hoping that someone in the public might see where he might be. This part of southeast Texas is heavily wooded. Very easy to kind of hide in place. So that's obviously also one of the issues that law enforcement is dealing with today, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So sorry for interrupting that sound bite. So Ed, I mean --

LAVANDERA: It's ok.

WHITFIELD: -- yes, heavily wooded. But we also see the properties are fairly close together so this community must be so rattled especially knowing the circumstances in which the shooting would take place and result in deaths.

LAVANDERA: And there's no question. In fact, we just spoke with one neighbor who was here Friday night, when all of this erupted. She has five children. As soon as the shooting started, she says her children were hiding under their beds.

But that it is such a common occurrence, that she says often on Fridays and Saturday nights, there are people -- if you look at the property, this isn't your typical residential neighborhood. These are acre-sized lots so there's a lot of space.

One neighbor was telling us that on Friday and Saturday nights, it's not uncommon to hear people randomly firing off their guns on weekend evenings.

WHITFIELD: Nonetheless, so sad. And the manhunt continues. Keep us posted, Ed Lavandera. Thank you so much from Cleveland, Texas.

All right. We're also tracking another mass shooting. This one happening in Mississippi overnight. Police say someone opened fire during a house party, leaving two teenagers dead and four others wounded.

CNN's Ryan Young joining me now with more on that. What do we understand what happened?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fred, you know, you have to shake your head again at another senseless gun violence happening at a party. You think about it, when you were a teen, house parties were something that we all look forward to. Something completely different here.

16 shot -- and I can honestly tell you, the details right now are very thin. So we'll go through what we know so far. Two of those teens are dead. Four others are still in the hospital right now. A 19-year-old has been charged and is under arrest not only for aggravated assault, but for murder, for homicide.

[14:04:56]

YOUNG: The 19-year-old who was arrested was Cameron Everest Brand (ph). And obviously police say there was a house party, there was only one shooter who was opening fire in that crowd, but we have no other details about what actually happened to spark this shooting.

You see that mug shot right there. His bond was denied. From what we're told, they even found him at his home where they were able to arrest him.

There were some friends who drove the people who were shot to the hospital. Others had to be airlifted to other hospital, where unfortunately, like I said, two teens have died.

So a couple of these kids all went to the same high school. They're going to be trying to provide them extra services in the next few days. But I've been to this city before, it's in Mississippi. It's a beautiful coastal town about less than 10,000 residents in this area.

And in terms of the investigation, what happened to spark this shooting? Why would a young man bring a gun to this party? No clue so far, but we have another incident of a mass shooting in America.

WHITFIELD: So sad. I mean yesterday, you brought us the Cleveland, Texas shooting. A week ago, we were talking about a sweet 16 party that --

YOUNG: Right. Two people shot.

WHITFIELD: -- that's right -- ended in deaths and injuries. Horrible.

All right. Thank you so much, Ryan Young. Appreciate it.

So there have been 120 days in 2023 so far and already the U.S. has seen more than 180 mass shootings. That's according to the Gun Violence Archive. I want to bring in now CNN contributor and writer for "The Trace", Jennifer Mascia.

Jennifer, good to see you again. We were talking about that sweet 16 shooting not long ago. And now here it is in Texas, you know, yet another shooting. And the shooting of a teenager through a door in St. Louis. And the woman who went into the wrong driveway in New York.

I mean, what is going on in your view in this country, where people who have these weapons are acting on impulse, whether it's fear or anger or frustration or what?

JENNIFER MASCIA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: We are a country that is armed to the teeth. And we have been told for decades that the only thing that's going to make us safer is buying guns. And what we're seeing now is kind of a brazenness with guns where, you know, people aren't holding back.

You know, like you said, we're firing on our neighbors now. And we're also -- people are carrying visible guns to intimidate people, whether that's groups of protesters or shoppers at your local Walmart.

This self-defense has kind of congealed into paranoia. And guns are very easy to get in Texas and several of the states where there were mass shootings, there were nine mass shootings this weekend actually.

It's very easy to get guns. There are no background checks for private gun sales in Texas. And it sounds like that this kind of behavior where you're firing guns in the neighborhood has become normalized. Police had actually visited the house several times to ask him not to do that.

So, you know, this isn't something where in my neighborhood, New York City, it would only take one night of people firing guns for the police to, you know, nip that in the bud. This kind of gun culture in several states across our nation is becoming increasingly normalized and aggressive.

WHITFIELD: So, mass shootings, unfortunately, are nothing new in America. You know, I hate to say, just you know, that statement that you just made, it's kind of become normalized, right? But I think what's striking is, you put it this way, you said, people are not holding back.

That, perhaps, is what's different. Unleashing on impulse whatever their emotions are. So it's not -- or is it in your view, is it the case that it is happening more frequently? Or is it the case that we are becoming more aware, and trying to get to the bottom of why it is happening so frequently.

MASCIA: I think it's both. I think for a long time, the only thing that really got substantial news coverage was the devastating mass shootings where dozens of people were killed. Now we are much more aware that, you know, medical advances over the last 30 years were, if somebody might die from a gunshot in 1990, they're surviving now.

So really the death count isn't as important as the number of people involved in each incident. It is happening more, though. We are seeing an accelerating pace of gun violence across this country.

In 2021, we had more people killed from guns ever before, almost 49,000 -- more than car crashes. So at the same time, gun production has soared. Gun production is up 152 percent in the last 15 years. It's never been as high as it is now.

We're pumping 20 million guns into the market place every year. And this is bound to happen with easily accessible weapons.

WHITFIELD: And there are no excuses, but is it your feeling when you talk about 2021, the numbers so high, that coming on the heels of 2020, a tumultuous year for a number -- a variety of reasons, but perhaps in the forefront is a feeling of people being, you know, restricted because of COVID. Being inside, alone, et cetera.

[14:10:01]

WHITFIELD: And 2021 or this kind of activity you describe, I mean is it a consequence of that? Is there a correlation?

MASCIA: Well, there were 40 million guns sold in 2020 and 2021. And putting that amount of guns into people's hands, a lot of them first- time gun owners, will definitely have that effect. When you have more guns around, you're more apt to use them.

But you know, we did experience a social upheaval. We have never in our lifetimes shut down the country for several months. A lot of people were siloed. They went down some mental rabbit holes.

As we've seen, that has consequences throughout our society. But one of them, one of those, you know, consequences of being siloed and armed is that you're suspicious of everybody.

And so I think that that definitely is a consequence of the pandemic. And hopefully, we will see it go down slightly, but it's still -- gun violence is at historic highs in this country.

WHITFIELD: Jennifer Mascia, thank you much. Appreciate your insight on this. All still very frustrating.

MASCIA: You bet.

WHITFIELD: All right.

First Republic Bank could belong to someone else as soon as the start of this week. A source tells CNN that the FDIC is holding an auction to buy the bank with final bids due in less than two hours from now. The "Wall Street Journal" previously reported that JPMorgan Chase and PNC Financial are among the major bidders.

CNN's Matt Egan joining us now to explain. So what is going on here, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well Fredricka, the sense is that First Republic's days as an independent company could be numbered.

Now, this is a fast-moving story, so let me just recap the latest here. A person familiar with the matter tells me that federal regulators are, in fact, running an auction right now for First Republic. That's this ailing San Francisco-based regional bank.

Now, this auction is being run by the FDIC, the source says. The FDIC of course, is the agency that's in charge of seizing troubled banks. And final bids, according to this source, are due at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time today.

Now, as you mentioned, the "Wall Street Journal" has previously reported that JPMorgan Chase and PNC are among the big banks that are vying to potentially buy First Republic. We have not heard from JPMorgan. PNC is declining to comment. The FDIC has not commented yet, either.

Now, here's why this is a big deal. First Republic is not some tiny lender. This is a major regional bank. As of the end of March, it had $233 billion in assets. So that means that if the FDIC does step in to take over this bank, it would be the second largest bank failure in American history.

Now, as you can see on your screen. That stock chart shows all of the concern about First Republic right now. It's down 97 percent since March, when this banking crisis began. And the stock took another hit last week after First Republic revealed that 41 percent of its deposits fled the bank last quarter. That worked out, Fredricka, to a stunning $72 billion in loss of deposits.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness. I mean that's stunning and remarkable. And with all that, there's also a shift to mortgage fees going into effect tomorrow. So what should home buyers be aware of?

EGAN: That's right, Fredricka. So broadly speaking, we're seeing an increase in mortgage fees for people with higher credit scores. And a decrease in fees for people with lower credit scores. Now, that does not mean that people who have lower credit scores are going to have less in fees. It's just an adjustment here. And these apply to loans that are backed by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

Let me show you what this looks like. If you put down 20 percent down payment, the old fee was 3 percent of the loan. If you had a 640 credit score, which is on the lower side. On the new standards, the new fee is going to be 2.25 percent. Now if you have a higher credit score of around 740, the old fee was 0.5 percent of the loan, now it's almost 0.9 percent.

So this is just another change that home buyers have to deal with right now. There's a lot of moving pieces in the housing market, right? Mortgage rates have gone up. Home prices were going down. Now they're starting to creep up again. And now we have the change to mortgage fees.

WHITFIELD: All right, remarkable. A remarkable week in money and finances and banking. Matt Egan, thank you so much.

All right. Still ahead, an ominous warning from the head of Russian's Wagner mercenary group saying they may pull out of the battle for Bakhmut if they don't get more ammunition. Plus, take a look at this video. A tornado ripping through Palm Beach

Gardens, Florida sending a car into the air. Extraordinary images there. And leaving behind a trail of damage.

That same storm system now moves north. The forecast that we're tracking, straight ahead.

[14:15:00]

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WHITFIELD: Ukraine's president says that an operation to retake more of its territory from Russia is coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Let's be honest. First, there will be a counter offensive. We are preparing for it. It will happen.

I really believe that it will be successful and we will be able to de- occupy our territories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Observers agree the counteroffensive could begin at any time. Meantime, Russian mercenaries say they're running out of ammunition in the town of Bakhmut. The head of the Wagner group is warning that he may pull his fighters from the battle there they don't get resupplied.

CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine. Nick, it's pretty striking to hear that. And why would they say that out loud?

[14:19:59]

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, stark differences between both sides, as we edge into Ukraine's expected counteroffensive.

Ukraine silent, frankly, apart from those very veiled comments from the president about where it's going to attack, when it's going to attack. It's possible the opening stages of this counteroffensive are already underway. But we are really unclear as to exactly the extent and the target thereof.

On the Russian side, well, public bickering, frankly. We've heard suggestions today that a key deputy defense minister has, in fact, been replaced, which is a stark thing for Moscow to do, literally days before it probably experiences one of the worst assaults that its military has had for decades.

And from Yevgeny Prigozhin, as you were saying, the man known as Putin's chef, who has been behind the Wagner mercenary group, who'd done a lot of the fighting, a lot of the dying too for the strategically less important but symbolically now very important city of Bakhmut.

But he came out this lengthy interview today to a sympathetic journalist, where he essentially said, look, we're getting about 2 percent of the shells that we need to defend Bakhmut, pointing the finger very squarely at the Russian defense ministry top brass.

And said if we don't get them more, we don't get them, we're going to have to think about pulling back out of Bakhmut.

Now, I should point out that Prigozhin has made these kind of warnings before. He doesn't supply evidence. He often revels in the mistruths that he's spoken. But it's odd, frankly, to hear him say this again right now, as Bakhmut is facing increased Ukrainian pressure.

In fact, the entire Russian military is likely to experience significant Ukrainian pressure with western weapons, training, and financing backing them up.

So it speaks again I think to a lack of readiness from the Russian armed forces, certainly they've had well over six months to prepare for and to also this climate of possibly a lack of transparency internally, that spills out into the open into these rare comments that essentially point the finger at other parts of Russia's military brass.

So quite what Prigozhin is saying and how much that reflects the reality of the situation, we don't know but it sends very alarming signals as to Russia's readiness for this Ukrainian counter-offensive and Ukraine sending no signals really at all.

Opaque comments occasionally about how ready they are. But no indication as to precisely their success so far, how far into this they've got, if it's even begun. And that's exactly where you want to be, as a military hedge of a large operation like this. So we're days, potentially, away from something more public, I would suggest. But very stark differences between how Moscow and Kyiv are playing this, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much, Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine.

All right. Coming up, Hollywood writers are preparing to go on a major strike for the first time in 16 years. What this could mean for your favorite shows.

[14:22:50]

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WHITFIELD: Welcome back.

A dangerous roof collapse in Ohio reportedly sent 14 people to the hospital. Officials say the roof of a porch fell during a house party near the campus of Ohio state university. As many as 45 students were reportedly on top of the roof when it collapsed.

The injured were transported to a nearby hospital and are in stable condition.

And Floridians are recovering from the damage this afternoon after a powerful tornado barreled through Palm Beach Gardens. Take a look at this. A car flipped right into the air, as you can see right through these images right there. And the National Weather Service says the tornado was at least an EF-1 with winds of 100 miles per hour. Now that same storm system is expected to make its way up the Eastern Seaboard.

CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking all of this. Allison, you said there were some potentially dangerous systems yesterday, and here it is. But I don't think anybody would have expected to see a tornado in Palm Beach Gardens.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right. And there were several tornado warnings this morning, not just in that area, but other areas of Florida. Now, the bit of good news is it has finally ended for Florida. It is offshore.

Now the main concern going forward is going to be areas of mid- Atlantic up into the northeast. That's where we have the best chance for those strong-to-severe thunderstorms and especially some very heavy rainfall.

Right now, you've still got a couple of severe thunderstorm warnings across the eastern portions of North Carolina, but in the next several hours, that should finally move offshore and give those folks a little bit of a break.

And yes, here's the thing, that's that same video you just showed in Florida again, of the tornado flipping that car. These were very brief spin-up tornados, meaning they come down and they're back up very quickly. But they can still cause some damage in the short period of time in which they are on the ground. And that's very similar to what we can still expect today.

Still looking at the potential for damaging winds, even a few of those quick spin-up tornados and also the potential for some isolated hail. And that stretches basically from southern New Jersey all the way back down into around the Charleston, South Carolina area.

The main focus tonight, because once that system finally exits the Carolinas, really the main focus tonight is going to be the mid- Atlantic and the northeast. And this is very slow. The system slows down overnight tonight. that in turn means that by tomorrow morning, you're still likely looking at some lingering showers in the morning.

So that morning commute for a lot of these areas in the northeast could be quite a soggy one. The heaviest rainfall going forward is going to be across areas of New York, all the way up through Maine. We're looking at an additional 2 to 4 inches.

Keep in mind, some of these areas have already picked up about 1 to 2 inches of rain. So 2 to 4 may not sound like all that much, Fred, but it's on top of what they've already had. So that's why we have the concerns for a little bit of some isolated flooding in the next 24 to 48 hours.

[14:30:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. I know people appreciate the warnings. Thank you so much, Allison Chinchar.

All right. Hollywood could have its first major writer's strike in 16 years, unless they reach an unlikely deal with studios in the next few days. More than 10,000 unionized writers will stop working and start protesting on Tuesday.

CNN's senior entertainment reporter Lisa France is with us to explain all of this.

So, I feel like this is something that we've seen before. But what's different or similar to strikes involving the writers.

LISA FRANCE, CNN SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: What's different this time is that back in 2007 when they had a 100 day strike, streaming was not as big. This is when Netflix is still a company that was mailing out DVDs. It hasn't gotten into the streaming game like it is now.

This is part of the complaint of writers. They say, we have all of these streaming services and residuals from the money that they would make from things like re-runs and DVDs and stuff, that money is going away. They feel like streaming services are making a ton of money. Why aren't they giving a bigger cut of that?

WHITFIELD: Right. So, they're being met with resistance on that?

FRANCE: Absolutely they are. The studios and the streaming giants are saying, look, look at the economy, look at the layoffs that we're having to do. Like you can't expect us to be able to give you so much money when inflation is hitting everyone. And the writers are saying, yes, if you look at inflation and our wages, our wages are actually down by more than 20 percent, if you account for inflation.

So, they are really looking to these studios and streaming services to really give them better wages.

WHITFIELD: So how are viewers going to see and experience this. As we know, a lot of the writers are working on, what we're seeing on the air now is a result of work done, you know, a long time ago. And so perhaps, some of the productions they're working on for future programming, et cetera. But when folks turn on the TV or watching live programming, that's when they're going to see and feel it, right?

FRANCE: Absolutely. That's if this happens. We can't pre-suppose because back in 2017, in the 11th hour, they were able to come to an agreement and avert a strike. So, it's not definite there's going to be a strike. But if there is a strike, you will first notice it with things like late-night television, variety shows like "Saturday Night Live" that employ writers.

WHITFIELD: Okay, and then, folks like set design, all the people that help make it happen, they're impacted as well?

FRANCE: Everybody is impacted, because if you don't have writers to write scripted TV, then you can't have people who are operating the cameras or people who are working in costume, makeup artists, any of that. It just shuts down production.

WHITFIELD: Okay, so, what is going to be the resolution, you know, from this point forward, if the goals are not met on Tuesday, or might this be, you know, a significant turning point in the way in which business is done, involving writers and content?

FRANCE: Absolutely. It's always a push/pull when it comes to creative versus business. That's what we're seeing right now. Of course, content is king. Streaming is everything right now.

And so, the writers are saying, if all of this money is being made by these streaming services, then why is this not being reflected in our paychecks? Because we're the ones that are doing it.

They're also thinking ahead, because they want protection from artificial intelligence. Everybody is talking about AI and how AI can replace writers. They don't want AI all of a sudden to be the ones that are churning out these scripts. Because you don't have to worry about paying AI wages or giving them, you know, health insurance.

WHITFIELD: Hence, why some companies and enterprises want to lean on that. It's cheaper.

FRANCE: Exactly. Right, and these writers in Hollywood are very, very concerned that they could get replaced by artificial intelligence.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, for good reason. Just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's suitable and better. So the last writer's strike, you said 2006.

FRANCE: 2007.

WHITFIELD: 2007. Okay, so it was 100 days. This one, if it happens, could threaten to be just as long, if not longer?

FRANCE: It depends on how contentious it gets. And I think people have to keep in mind, back then when we had this strike, it cost $2 billion to local economy. I mean, this is all -- it all comes down to dollars and cents at the end of the day.

Nobody ever wants to strike. It's not good business, not good for the writers, not good for the economy. We have to wait and see. But I feel like the writers, rightfully so are like, you know, these studios and these streaming services have a lot of power.

And so, they have said that they feel like they have to be strong and dig in. And if that means they have to go on strike, they'll have to go on strike.

WHITFIELD: And people want to work, and creative types really want to work, too. This is the lifeblood. And to stop all of a sudden -- FRANCE: It's tough. And it's Hollywood. Some of these people have

worked their entire lives to get to this. They don't want to strike, but they also don't want to be losing money like they say they are.

WHITFIELD: All right. Lisa France, keep us posted. I know you will.

FRANCE: I will.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much.

FRANCE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, a rare moment of unity from liberal and conservative justices, saying they're happy with the current ethics guidelines despite the mounting list of controversies that have come to light recently.

[14:35:06]

Is it time to embrace reform? We'll discuss, next.

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WHITFIELD: U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote the controversial opinion that overturned Roe v. Wade now says he has a, quote, pretty good idea who leaked the opinion. In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal" published in its opinion page, Alito dismissed the notion that one of his fellow conservative justices was responsible, suggesting instead that it was someone who wanted to protect abortion rights. The justice said he didn't have the necessary proof to name who he thought was responsible.

This comes as the court is under growing pressure to embrace ethics reforms following a series of troubling controversies. Recent investigations found that Justice Clarence Thomas failed to disclose luxury trips that were paid for by a GOP megadonor.

[14:40:00]

That donor also bought real estate from Thomas that he never disclosed.

Another investigation discovered that Justice Neil Gorsuch also failed to disclose that he sold nearly $2 million in real estate to the head of a law firm that routinely argues cases in front of the court.

Joining me right now to discuss this is Steve Vladeck. He is a CNN legal analyst and professor of law at the University of Texas School of Law.

Good to see you.

So let me first get your reaction to Justice Alito, blaming the leak on an unnamed critic of draft. The court spent eight months, by the way, investigating the leak and failed to discover who was responsible. So should he be pointing fingers without even offering proof?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Fredricka, the answer is no. But, you know, this is, I think, just the latest in a series of examples how the justices really are in a position to say things that we wouldn't think are above board, to act in ways that we wouldn't think are appropriate.

The problem is that, you know, Justice Alito can say that, and "The Wall Street Journal" will pick it up and there will be no consequences and no pushback, and no suggestion that it's actually kind of inappropriate for a sitting justice to insinuate that kind of development when the official report of the full court was to the contrary.

WHITFIELD: And let's also pivot to the calls for ethics reform on the U.S. Supreme Court. So on Tuesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing to discuss that. Does the court need new enforceable ethics reform in the wake of all of these controversies about undisclosed gifts and real estate sales? And if so, how do they go about it?

VLADECK: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the right question, Fredricka. And I think we ought to take a step back and point out that the justices are the only actors in our entire federal system were basically their own police, or their own enforcers.

There are mechanisms that can check executive branch misconduct. There are mechanisms that can check legislative misconduct. There are mechanisms that can check lower federal court misconduct.

So, I think we're really past the point where the question is, ought the justices be bound by some system of rules and ethical procedures to follow in these cases? The really hard question is how to do it in a way that comports with the Constitution?

You know, I think the chief justice in his letter to Senator Durbin last week suggested that there would always be a separation of powers problem with that kind of oversight. I'm not sure, Fredricka, that's true. I mean, Congress historically has controlled the court's budget, has controlled the court's docket, has controlled where the court sits until 1935, the court sat in the Capitol.

And so, you know, Fredricka, I think the point is just how can Congress basically push the justices to create a set of rules that can then be enforced. This is where the bill introduced last week by Senators King and Murkowski, actually goes a pretty long way.

It says, hey, court, you identify the rules you're going to follow. You hire someone who's going to enforce them, and that person then reports to us, the congress, when they find examples like the Thomas examples, of noncompliance.

WHITFIELD: And at a minimum, the court's credibility is on the line. So one would think that all nine justices would be in agreement that there needs to be something in place to keep everybody in check and to make sure that, you know, there are, there are no questionable dealings, nothing to in any way blemish the reputation of any of the nine.

VLADECK: Yeah, and I think, Fredricka, there's a mentality that any kind of check on the court would interfere with judicial independence. And that's just not true and it's never been true. You know, judicial independence is not the same thing as traditional unaccountability.

So I think that the real problem here, and I think it's reflected in Justice Alito's comments to "The Wall Street Journal," is the court's sense that it's the critics and their attacks on the court that are harming the court's public perception, and not the justice's behavior itself.

I mean, Justice Thomas has publicly admitted that he needs to correct at least his 2014 financial disclosure forms to reflect the sale of property.

So, you know, when the justices themselves are admitting that they errored and that they did not comply with the relative rules, even if those errors were accidental, even if they weren't malicious, that seems to underscore the point that there is a problem here, and the problem is that no one other than the justices themselves holding them accountable for behavior that we would expect of every other federal official, including every other federal judge.

That's why I think it's incumbent upon Congress to take an approach kind of like the one that we've seen in the King-Murkowski bill, which is to say, hey, Supreme Court, we're not going to tell you what your rules are going to be. You're going to tell us what rules you're going to follow, but you're going to report on how you're not complying with the rules.

[14:45:03]

You're going to report to us on how you're not complying with the rules, so that we're not all left to the whims of "ProPublica" and CNN and "The Washington Post" to discover justices that are crossing those lines.

WHITFIELD: We'll leave it there.

Steve Vladeck, good to see you. Thanks so much.

VLADECK: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, a new program in California schools is giving kids a unique way to express their feelings and explore social issues by using animation. We'll explain, next.

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[14:50:00]

WIHTFIELD: Students at a San Diego area elementary school are using animation to explore difficult social issues. The innovative program allows the kids to create art as way to express their feelings and share their experiences.

CNN national correspondent Camila Bernal joining us right now.

So, Camila, I mean, you got to see the program in action and actually talk to the kids. What did you discover?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred. It really isn't easy to talk about social justice issues, especially when you're talking to a 10 or 11 year old child, but it really created a lot of conversations. These children were able to come up with solutions. It was a time for them to be able to express themselves, through that art, that technology that you get in animation and a lot of them even coming up with solutions to these very difficult issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNAL: Good morning. Buenos dias.

(voice-over): The day begins for these fifth graders with the usual subject, math, science, reading and even P.E. Those may appear easy in comparison to talking about gun violence, global warming, bullying, racism.

CHRISTIAN LOPEZ, 5TH GRADE STUDENT: I chose racism because for me, racism is something that I see often and something that happens and I feel like all people should be treated the same way, not just because they're different but because inside we're all the same.

BERNAL: Christian is just one of the more than 500 fifth grade students tackling these issues at the national school district just outside of San Diego. The students choose a topic.

AXEL VIVEROS, 5TH GRADE STUDENT: Like world hunger. I feel bad, I really feel bad because they don't have the life I have.

BERNAL: And then use animation to explain their thoughts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Innovation is a problem for everyone. They separate individuals from one another. That's a form of injustice.

SARMILA KRAFT, ASST. SUPERINTENDENT EDUCATIONAL SERVICES, NATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT: If these are the issues, these are the components that these young people will face as they become adult, then I believe that it is our responsibility to support them in learning how to maneuver some of the nuances.

BERNAL: But maneuvering wasn't always easy, according to animator David Heredia who created this five-week program.

DAVID HEREDIA, FOUNDER, HEROES OF COLOR: It makes people uncomfortable when you put them in a situation to talk about something that is not their lived experience. And because of that I think it's unfair to put a muzzle on a child who wants to express what they're feeling.

BERNAL: So instead you allow them to talk through their art. LOPEZ: Just because they're different doesn't mean you have to be

rude or to like -- not to be nice to them because it's really hurtful for those people.

BERNAL: They found ways to help solve or highlight the issues.

UNIDENTIFIED KID: No matter what color we are, we all are humans.

BERNAL: And then they got to feel like celebrities as they shared their animations with the world.

HEREDIA: It allows us to actually stop and listen to what's going on in the world of a child and have them offer a potential solution to that problem.

UNIDENTIFIED KID: When you're kind to someone, they're going to be kind to someone else or you, you should always be kind.

BERNAL: The students feel heard and say they will continue to explore these social justice issues.

LOPEZ: We can still keep working and progress to make it better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERNAL (on camera): And the goal is to continue these conversations that they are going to expand here at the national school district. They're going to do fifth grade and sixth grade students and the founder wanting it to be all over the country, allowing children to express themselves through this art -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All great therapy. All right. Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

All right. Still ahead, in a dire situation, life-saving materials have finally arrived in Sudan. We'll talk to one of those leading the relief effort straight ahead.

But, first, here's today's "Staying Well".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW SCHMIDT, CHEF, CLASSIC COOKING ACADEMY: Our cooking class is a great way to learn how to cook healthier.

We co-host and co-teach a six-week nutritional series.

Doing this class, working with my mom, I don't realize how I took it for granted these concepts and how much people value them.

KARLA SCHMIDT, NUTRITIONIST AND CHEF ANDREW'S MOM: Work the outside aisle of the supermarket. That's where you're going to have your lean proteins, fish, fruits, vegetables. That's really where we love for people to shop. I had spent years helping people understand how to eat healthy. But the biggest missing link was once I had in the kitchen, I don't want to do. ANDREW SCHMIDT: I think the pandemic was a bit of a wake up call for

people to realize, hey, I don't have a lot of skills in the kitchen.

[14:55:00]

KARLA SCHMIDT: When individuals consume a large portion of processed foods, they lose that natural understanding of what food should taste like. When they start removing those, they come back and say, I had no idea how good food could taste.

ANDREW SCHMIDT: Although, I might on occasion throw an extra pound of butter into something, don't tell, ma, everybody. Keep that one on the deal, you know?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.