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Any Moment: City Officials to Provide Update on TX Mall Shooting; Officials Gives Update on Shooting at TX Mall; 9 Killed in TX Mall Shooting; 3 in Critical Condition; 8 Killed in TX Mall Shooting; 3 in Critical Condition. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 06, 2023 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAULA REID, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news out of Allen, Texas a city 25 miles north of Dallas, a shooter opened fire outside an outlet mall there earlier today. We know there are fatalities but police haven't released a number. Law enforcement officials have confirmed the gunman was neutralized by an officer at the scene. Here's what one witness said he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard like a bunch of shots, but we thought it was firecrackers at first. And then a lot of people just started running like straight to our door trying to come in and everything. But my manager he went out and like I guess when he was opening the door, like people just kept running in trying to run in.

But he saw I guess he saw the person. He was like what the best and everything had a gun, it looked like an AK like he looked like he was trying. So like I don't know if he like was a felon before but he looked like he knew where he was he wanted to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Medical personnel say at least 9 people are being treated for injuries at a local hospital, including a five year old. At any moment now we expect to get an update from city officials. We'll take you there live. But right now I want to go to Camila Bernal. She joins us with new reporting. What have you learned?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Paul, I want to just kind of do a reset here and go from the beginning. This all started at 3:36 pm at the Premium Outlets in Allen, Texas. And what we were told by Allen police is that the shooter, essentially a cop that was in the area. He was not there for the shooting specifically, but he heard the gunfire and he went straight towards that shooter and that officer is the one that killed the gunman.

Now we also know according to sources that that gunman was wearing tactical gear. And many, many people in that mall were able to see this to witness not just the shooter, but also the victims. That's what we've heard from a lot of the victims that were the witnesses that were at the mall.

Now we also have Dash-cam video of the moment that the shooter gets out of the car at the parking lot in the mall, and then opens fire I do want to warn you this video is graphic. But here is the moment when he gets to the mall. He's in the car you see him then getting out of the car now this video does not have sound, but he does begin to shoot towards the mall.

There are witnesses who say they've heard and saw exactly what happened in those moments. Of course it was extremely traumatic for the many people that were in that parking lot that were in the area and that also were at the mall and had to experience the before and the after.

We have another video of someone who was also in the parking lot and heard those gunshots. In this video you can actually hear the first five gunshots or it's unclear exactly when they happen but in the video, those are first five gunshots and then you hear a lot more gunfire after.

This is again another disturbing video but I want you to watch and listen to all of this and the commotion that happened after.

BERNAL: Now the man that shot that video saying that he was thankful to be alive but also thinking about the victims, the people that lost their lives. Again, it is really important to point out that Allen police they have not confirmed whether or not people died as a result of this shooting, how many we're waiting to hear from officials in the city there.

But we do know that 9 people they said were transported to local hospitals. So of course we started calling local hospitals and there is one hospital group that said they were treating 8 of the victims, those victims ranging in ages 5 to 61. They said all of these victims were being treated at Trauma facilities.

Again, we're waiting to see if those are all of the injured or there are more and that's what we're likely going to hear from police are hoping to hear from police in the next few minutes or so. But again, a lot of witnesses who say they were traumatized and who big picture here also say that they're terrified of going to a mall because of what they went through.

Many who said they had to go to back rooms and hide who had to get help from people. And again, unfortunately many who also saw the shooter and the victims Paula.

REID: Ed Lavandera is live in Allen, Texas.

[22:05:00]

Ed, we're waiting for this law enforcement briefing any minute but you have some new reporting what have you learned?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are waiting for that briefing we were told it will start in less than two. So we will continue talking until that happens and let you hear from that briefing once it starts here in Allen, Texas. But we have learned from a law enforcement source here tonight, that of the 9 people that were transported to hospital for treatment for their wounds.

Two of those patients arrived had passed away when they arrived at the hospital. So that, at least 2 confirm dead, that is going to be in addition to the number of people who lost their lives here at the outlet mall, in Allen, Texas. So we'll continue to sift through the details of these numbers.

And obviously, all of these numbers pertain to family members who are hearing just awful news here tonight, from law enforcement officials as they continue to sift through the crime scene to kind of give you a sense of where we are. The shooting scene in that H&M store that you've heard so many people talking about is just beyond these law enforcement vehicle lights that you see there.

And this is an area that is still cordoned off, as law enforcement investigators continue to comb through the scene, and they have secured the entire situation here. But as we mentioned off the top there, Paula, of the 9 people that were treated at local hospital for their wounds 2 of those people died, were already dead when they arrived there at the hospital.

So we're waiting to learn more about just what is the number of victims that were here at the scene. And what is interesting in speaking with witnesses over the last few hours, you know, some of those initial shots where we're told we're fired around that H&M store.

And the place where we believe the victim of the gunman was taken out by the Allen police officer was basically around the corner some distance away from where that initial shooting erupted. So the question kind of becomes, you know, was there some sort of chase was this a situation where the law enforcement officer was chasing the suspect?

Or was this person already on the move to another location to carry out more shooting, you know, all of this very difficult to kind of sift through and these details very difficult to sift through as we've talked to people who were in this vicinity, when the shooting happened just before 4 o'clock central time, this afternoon.

So Paula, we continue to wait here we were told that city officials will be holding the briefing at city hall with the police Chief and other city officials. And we were told that is about to start here in a second.

REID: And to recap, Ed, we were told at the last briefing that they had 9 victims who had been transported to hospitals, you hear breaking the news, that of those 9 people, 2 of them were deceased when they arrived at the hospital. So we may in this press briefing get an update on the status of those 7 other victims.

And of course, at the last briefing, law enforcement, they weren't sure they had accounted for everyone. They said it was possible that there could be additional victims who were transported in private vehicles. I know you've been talking to witnesses on the ground, what have they been telling you?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, it's what's fascinating in a horrific way is just the sense that you get in speaking with people who have witnessed something so tragic, so horrific, up close, and the process that they go through to try to make sense of their memories of what they just witnessed.

And that is really striking because the number of people that we have spoken with. Some people say the shooting lasted for what felt like them 20 minutes or so other people have told us that the shooting lasted one to three minutes. So that kind of discrepancy is rather striking and I think really speaks to the trauma.

The intensity of trying to process something so horrific watching, literally people lose their lives in front of you while you're doing something as simple as going to an outlet mall for shopping with your family. The other thing that has been really striking is the number of people who are just running for cover ducking into whatever area they could.

Many of these people entering the department stores hiding in the back storage areas with employees, everyone trying to get away from the situation then having to wait for almost 2 hours in many cases--

REID: Ed, I want to interrupt you for just a second, the law enforcement briefing is getting underway. So we're going to take you there now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --so, I'm going to turn it over with our first speaker on our Fire Chief Boyd.

JONATHAN BOYD, CITY OF ALLEN FIRE DEPARTMENT: My name is Jonathan Boyd. I'm the Fire Chief for the Allen Fire Department. I'm going to speak to the medical part of our response. When we received the call we activated our act of attack in a great at response.

[22:10:00]

Our Rescue Task Force teams found 7 deceased individuals on scene. We transported 9 individuals to the hospital to area trauma facilities of those that we transported 2 have since died, 3 are in critical surgery and 4 are stable. I'll now turn it over to Police Chief Harvey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, sir what is the total number of deaths?

BOYD: The total would be then 9.

CHIEF BRIAN HARVEY, CITY OF ALLEN POLICE DEPARTMENT: My name is Brian Harvey, the Chief of Police in Allen. And we're all saddened by this event today this tragic event today at 3:36. Our officer was at Allen Premium Outlets on an unrelated call. He heard gunshots located the gunshot, located the shooter, neutralize the shooter and neutralize the threat. We believe at this point that the shooter acted alone. We are asking for the public's help, if you are a witness, if you have any video please call 1-800, CALL FBI. This is an ongoing, active investigation. We've had tremendous local, county and state and federal support and we appreciate that. And I will turn it over to Congressman Keith Self.

REP. KEITH SELF (R-TX): Thank you, Chief. First and foremost, we need to keep the families impacted by this tragedy in our prayers. We will never know how many lives were saved by the Swift actions of our first responders. What we do know is that we owe a debt of gratitude to first responders that ran toward the gunfire and acted swiftly to neutralize the threat. I'll be followed by State Representative Jeff Leach.

REP. JEFF LEACH (R-TX): I'm State Representative Jeff Leach from House District 67 and resident of Allen. My family and I reside about a mile from where this shooting took place this community is home for us in our hearts are devastated and broken tonight. No law enforcement official, no elected official ever imagines or plans to or hopes to speak in front of a press conference like this but here we are.

And we are resolute and in our community to pray for. Praying and believing for the victims and their families. There are many, many people in our community tonight who are hurting, whose lives have been shattered. And who need and deserve our collective prayers and they have them tonight.

There are people of faith all over our great community ministering to those families. And they of course have our prayers in this moment tomorrow on Sunday at 5 pm. We'll be holding a vigil at Cottonwood Creek Baptist Church here in Allen.

Just got a phone with Pastor John Mark Caton and this church which does such a wonderful job with so many others in the faith community and wrapping their arms around this community and loving on and supporting people in their time of need. Tomorrow will be a great night of healing a much needed night of healing and hope.

I was on scene today was in constant communication with Governor Abbott and our Speaker Dade Phelan who have offered their full support of state government. They have been on the phone with Steve McCraw, Executive Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety.

The state government stands ready to assist our wonderful Police Chief Brian Harvey and all of our local officials really law enforcement agencies at all levels in responding to this tragedy. They are true heroes and I saw that firsthand today and so we remain committed to praying for.

The victims and their families and our community, I have no doubt will come together and respond in the right way to this horrific tragedy. With that now, I'm really honored to introduce my friend and our Collin County judge, Chris Hill.

CHRIS HILL, COLLIN COUNTY, TEXAS JUDGE: I'm Chris Hill, the Collin County Judge. Like Representative Leach, I reside near the outlet malls. Like all in our community, my family and I shop there often know this community and know this area well.

[22:15:00]

My family and I are heartbroken and devastated for the loss of life that we experienced today in our community and we're angry about those that would do evil in our community and our backyard. But we are proud of what has been a truly county wide response today.

On scene we saw all of our municipal police departments and fire departments and our county agencies, the sheriff's office and the constable deputies, and our state partners, and our national partners. And I appreciate from Governor Abbott on down that we've already received calls from all of our partners across the state and form our senators.

We appreciate that they stand with us. And I'm proud of the men and women of all of our law enforcement agencies and our fire agencies and our EMS agencies that were there immediately today. And they stood so bravely and courageously to protect our neighborhood and our community.

And as a community, we will respond and we will get past this together. We're going to hear next from our Mayor of the City of Allen, Ken Fulk.

MAYOR KEN FULK, ALLEN, TEXAS: --, my name is Allen Mayor Ken Fulk. I'm here to read the briefing statement for the City of Allen. Today is a tragic day for the City of Allen, our citizens, our friends, and visitors who are at the Allen Premium Outlets today. We are a strong and caring community.

And we all want the victims and their families impacted by this tragedy to know that we will wrap our arms around you and we are here for you. The City of Allen pledges to offer our complete support. We know you are grieving, we are grieving. Rest assured the nation and the world is also grieving.

Allen is a proud and safe city which makes today's senseless act of violence even more shocking. However, I want to commend our police and fire departments for their quick response. Their thorough training not to hesitate to move toward the threat likely saved more lives today than what we could imagine.

We also want to thank all of our surrounding municipalities and law enforcement agencies for offering their assistance at the scene. This collective effort is what makes our North Texas communities united. We know the days ahead will be difficult in somber.

While remember the victims of today's shooting, we want to convey our appreciation for the condolences and notes we are receiving from all over the world. I have received calls from the White House, Governor Abbott, and many other national, state and county officials who have reached out to the City of Allen to express their support in desire to help the Allen community in any way possible.

On behalf of our city council, our law enforcement personnel, our first responders and all of our city employees, we will remain strong and stand united. Please keep the victims and the families of the victims in your prayers. With that, thank you for being here and that concludes our briefing. I'm going to go ahead and turn it back over to Shane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all very much for coming. This is just a briefing today. There's no more No more information. They're not going to take any questions this time. So we want to thank you for coming in. And if any more information becomes available over the weekend, or tomorrow, that's pertinent we will certainly share that with you as well. So thanks again for coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please clarify the shooters among the night--.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was one of the 9 --.

REID: Here you just heard from law enforcement updating that 8 people were killed in a Texas mall shooting. They say that currently there are 3 other additional victims who are in critical condition. And 4 other victims who are currently stable. They noted that an officer happened to be at this outlet mall on a separate call engaged and neutralize the shooter.

At this point, they believe he acted alone. But they are asking the public anyone who was there to share any video or other evidence if they may have, so again a total of 9 people dead today, the shooter plus 8 other people who were killed. I want to start with Ed Lavandera who is on the scene in Allen, Texas. Ed, what is your reaction to what we just heard?

[22:20:00]

LAVANDERA: Well, it's a little stunning that they're not taking questions, given the number of elected officials that were speaking at that press conference and given the magnitude and the confusion. I think there were a lot of people here in this community who were desperately anxious to hear or at least to see the opportunity to ask questions as to how much we know about to this current situation and how all of this is unfolding?

So it's a little stunning to be honest, there weren't any kind of moments for questions in the situation. But we will have to take and continue to work on getting everyone as much information as we possibly can. But, you know, significant news and clearly devastating news 8 victims killed.

6 of those died here at the outlet mall scene, 2 of them died when they were taken to the hospital when they arrived, they were already dead when they had arrived at that hospital. There are 3 patients in critical condition, 4 others that are in stable condition.

So it really gives you a sense of just how much pain and damage was inflicted. We don't know exactly the amount of time that all of this lasted. But in piecing together some of the clues from what we've heard from witnesses, the many of the victims were initially shot by an H&M store, which is just beyond these lights that you see behind me and from what I've been able to gather, but the gunman was shot and killed around the corner in front of a place called Fatburger.

And that is where we believe that the Allen police officer took out the gunman is neutralized as city officials here have been saying. We don't know exactly what transpired between the moment the gunmen attack the people they're coming out or in that H&M store vicinity area.

And then getting to that other location within the small but you can imagine how chaotic and how confusing that must have been. Especially considering that, you know, early on and all of this, there were several victims who were saying that they thought that there were 2 shooters. And that really kind of speaks to the confusion in the in the chaotic moments of what we've heard.

But you know, at least the situation here under control. The investigators say they do not believe there is anyone else or any other gunman involved in all of this and that the gunman who was responsible for this attack has been shot and killed here at the scene.

But beyond that, officials here tonight not were offering much more information or much more clarity as to what they've been able to gather in the hours since the shooting happened, Paula.

REID: Want to go now to Charles Ramsey. We heard just now Chief Ramsey in that press briefing. They said something interesting. They said as they have said before, that the police officer who neutralizes the gunman was already on the scene. But they also said that when they arrived, there were already 7 people dead on the scene.

So fair to say if this police officer had not happened to be at this outlet mall, that this would have been much worse?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there's no question about that. I mean, that officer definitely save lives. But you know, it just shows just how devastating and these kinds of weapons that we're up against today really are. It doesn't take very long before you have multiple fatalities in a situation like that.

They didn't mention the type of weapon that was used. We heard it was an assault weapon would have been nice if he had verified that. But apparently, you know that officer was there on another job. And, you know, the timeline wasn't really concrete. But it definitely was not a long period of time, like we had heard from some witnesses in the chaos and a trauma, you know, time gets distorted tremendously.

I'd also like say that you know, an officer, and you're running towards the sound of gunshots in a situation like that you've got a stream of people coming out. It's like swimming upstream, because they're trying to get out you're trying to force your way in. And so that officer just displayed a tremendous amount of courage to go in there alone.

Continue to move towards the sound of gunshots and actually kill the individual responsible. So that was good job on his part. REID: And Steve Moore, I want to bring you in. You heard during this briefing, they asked for anyone who has a video or any other evidence to please contact the FBI that gave a number. What will they be doing with that evidence over the next 24, 48 hours?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the FBI will have enough personnel to screen the information a lot of it's not going to be valuable at all. Some of it is going to be of a crucial value. It's kind of a triage with evidence that they do and the FBI will be forwarding that to the people who are running the investigation in Allen and responding to any request from Allen as far as investigating as they go forward.

[22:25:00]

All right, Juliette Kayyem, I also want to get your reaction to what we just heard in this briefing and they did provide more details? As we talked about 7 people deceased when they arrived on the scene, 9 people transported to medical facilities, and of those 2 died, 3 are in critical and 4 are in stable condition. What is your reaction to what we just heard?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously, there was a terrific law enforcement response. And we will learn more about what occurred. So I want to treat this though, as someone who is still looking for information that will be relevant to this. Nothing was mentioned about the type of gun as Chief Ramsey said.

The name of the gunman was not mentioned, it would be by now in most normal circumstances, he's dead. And he has no privacy right at this stage. And if we don't know who he is, we can't learn more about him and what he's doing? The exact timeframe between when he entered, and when he was shot is still not totally clear.

I mean, it's shorter than an hour we had heard at one stage hour, that timeframe is irrelevant, because it goes to the lessons learned about the capacity of a certain type of gun, but also what we will tell people to do, if they are in an active shooter case like this, if someone's able to bring down a 6 or 7 people in just a few moments, you know, I'm not sure running is going to be the best if they even have that choice, it seems futile.

And fourth, the ages of the dead, at least some range should have been given by now. I'm not sitting here second guessing the response. I'm saying the six hours later. This is the basic information that the community and the nation would want to know at this stage.

We don't you know, lots of nervousness about talking about guns this soon after, but I think the gun will be relevant if only to begin to talk about a culture that someone glorifies a certain kind of gun, and we don't have to change any laws, if everyone could just agree like, this thing isn't, there's no joking around about it.

No pictures, no culture wars, nothing. This is a serious weapon that kills that is just devastated. Dozens and dozens of people today, it's not just the dead, I mean, just think of the concentric circles of children and partners and parents and everyone who is impacted by each of these individuals dead.

So I hope to learn more. I think we all do, I think we deserve more, given the magnitude of the shooting.

REID: Chief Ramsey, I want to bring you in because of course, you've had to handle briefings like this before, is there any reason you can think of that they would still be withholding some of these critical details?

RAMSEY: Well, some of the details could have been given the type of weapon and so forth, and a little clearer on the timeline and that sort of thing like that. Now, if they're actively working on the shooter, and they still haven't, you know, located, perhaps family, friends to interview or, you know, tap down to social media part, maybe that's why they're delaying on that.

I don't know the answer to that. I just think that at this point in time, a little more information could have been given out, but then I don't have access to all that. So it's kind of difficult to say, but I agree with Juliette, if you don't do anything other than just give up an age range, provided a course that by itself doesn't kind of give something away that you don't want to give away in terms of next of kin notification.

But I think we could have gotten a little bit more and certainly answered some questions. I don't know if they're going to do another press briefing tonight or not. It's getting kind of late. But you know there are an awful lot of unanswered questions in my mind.

REID: I believe I heard them say that the next press briefing will be tomorrow. And as you saw, they did not take any questions. But Steve Moore, I want to ask you, is there any reason that you could think of that they may just not know that much about the shooter right now?

MOORE: I can't imagine that they don't know that much about the shooter. I believe that they, the only thing I can think of are that they don't want to be inundated by press while they're running search warrants. They don't want anybody to get to potential witnesses and by witnesses I mean friends or associates of the shooter.

They don't want anybody to get to them before they get to them. That's the only reason I can see for not even giving the shooters name and the type of weapon I think that would be important for us as a society to know from the sound of on air.

[22:30:00]

I would guess it's an AR 15, but that's a wild guess. I think they could have told us more without impacting the case. That said I don't know what they have in their hands and what they need to do. But I can't think of anything offhand that would have kept at least those details out.

REID: I want to back to Camila Bernal. Let's recap for our viewers what we know at this point about the victims? BERNAL: Well, look, in terms of the people that are still at the hospital, what authorities are saying is that 3 are undergoing critical surgeries. That is what authorities said they're in Allen, Texas, and 4 are stable. Now, they didn't give us a breakdown of ages or names or anything else.

But we do know from talking to one of the local hospitals, that among the victims that they were treating, they were ranging in ages 5 to 61. So again, we do not know if that say 5 year old is still alive. So we are hoping to get that kind of information from authorities.

I do want to point out, I've been speaking to our colleague, Josh Campbell, who's a Former FBI Agent, and one of the things that he was telling me is that the shooter is dead. So it is going to be a lot more complicated to find a motive here, because he says, yes, you're going to have search warrants of his house of where he lived.

And you're going to have to comb through a lot of the social media, but he is dead. So it is going to be a lot more difficult to find that motive. And something Josh pointed out was that maybe we'll never have that motive. But I will echo that frustration from our colleague, Ed Lavandera, who's there in Allen, Texas, the fact that they're not taking questions from reporters.

I do think that's a critical part in a situation like this, you need to allow reporters to ask those questions, because now we're left watching these videos, listening to the witnesses and trying to piece together all this information as we talked to sources and make calls. But of course, we're waiting, again, from authorities in order to have confirmation about a lot of things.

And at the moment, you know, again, no motive. And still a lot of questions here as we continue to wait for authorities to give us more answers, Paula.

REID: Camila, thank you. Juliette, right now, what is the top question that you would have for law enforcement?

KAYYEM: --what was weapon? It's so simple, because it will tell me a lot of things it will tell me both in terms of how quickly people got killed, how did they get killed? It might explain certain numbers, you know, 2 of the people who probably were shot, we think that they were shot, who didn't make it to the hospital.

The gun is irrelevant and we will find it out. This is the weird thing about this press conference. It's having, you know, sort of Uvalde vibes, I mean, that in terms of you just there's no reason I should be suspicious. And I just think, just say what the gun is, we're going to find out what it is?

And whatever the politics of the gentleman who were at the state at the --, it doesn't matter what in the sense that this is just facts that we just need to know what the gun was, because it will tell us something about access, it will tell us something about maybe we can reform laws if the Texas legislature is in session right now. But I think as importantly, and you know, if we can't solve laws, we can solve culture. And I think that's important for people to hear. And we know what the polling looks like on guns, we know that the American public is pretty unified on basic gun safety gun measures.

I have no qualms talking about it today, because I probably won't get a chance to talk about it tomorrow because there'll be another mass shooting. And so the issue that we should talk about is just the performative culture wars that are around guns.

Now, if we could tone if that could be toned down by gun advocates, then a lot of this then there'll be a unified mission to say these are really serious weapons that are killing 7,8 people in just a matter of moments and the impact that will have on so many around them.

I think that if we can begin that that's clear and by hiding the name of the gun, they are being political, not us. They are being political. We need to face reality of what this gun does in every shopping mall, every street, every school, and every movie theater every time it's used?

REID: And I don't know if you caught this Juliette, but in the press briefing, I believe it was the fire Chief. He referred to this as their mass attack plan, not their mass shooting plan.

KAYYEM: Yes.

[22:35:00]

REID: Do you make anything of that?

KAYYEM: No, I think it's probably the same I, maybe Chief Ramsey would know the difference, but that it would be the use of a weapon of mass destruction in this case of course, the gun that could result in mass casualties. So all it means that an incident command will be set up, you may, you're searching lots and lots of resources, the locality and then surrounding areas, the state, and then federal government, as we see in terms of the FBI presence, to stop the event care for those who need care.

And then, of course, investigate this case, this isn't over, obviously, for the community, I mean, in terms of its impact across the board. And it's not just physical impact, mental impact, the economic impact as well, for these communities, for the shutting down for some period of time, have a major area of commerce that also impacts communities, people's jobs.

These are all the consequences of guns in our society right now. And each of them needs to be discussed. It's not just a number count. It's all of it.

REID: And Steve Moore, if you were down in Allen, Texas, so working as a law enforcement officer, what would you expect the next 24 hours would look like for you?

MOORE: If I was running the case side, I know I'm not going to get any sleep tonight, obviously. And nobody else is who's directly involved in this, because there is no you know, 5 o'clock, for this kind of investigation. They are going to be fanning out all over the area for friends, associates.

And then, you know, once you get information from his social media, you're going to be fanning out across the country, because if he is a tending to be a violent person who likes weapons for the purpose of committing violence against others, believe it or not, there are people who will talk to you about that on the internet and second, all your motions.

So there are people all over the country who he might have communicated with. And the FBI will be sending out leads to find these people and door knock them at 2, 3, 4 in the morning, because there is no spare time on this case. And so nationwide, there's going to be a large law enforcement activity, trying to fully understand who this guy was?

How he got his weapons and whether he tipped his hand at any point? And did anybody know about this? And do nothing about it? There's so many things that we need to know and we need to know in a hurry.

REID: Steve, thank you. Stay with us CNN's coverage of the deadly, Texas mall shooting. We'll continue after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:40:00]

REID: We're following "Breaking News" out of Allen, Texas, the city 25 miles north of Dallas. Moments ago, we learned that 8 people were killed after a shooter opened fire outside an outlet mall earlier today. Police say the shooter is also dead. 3 people are currently in critical condition.

We still do not know the shooter's identity or motive. They also don't know what weapon was used. But we are hearing from witnesses about what they saw inside the mall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mom and I were in Johnson and Murphy shop in and out of nowhere heard about like 10 pops go off. And I look at the customer next to me as I was like, was that gunshots? And he's like, no, it's probably just construction or something. And then like heard 10 to 15 more shots go off.

And so I ran to the front of the store. And we're like, no, that's shooting and we see the guy. There's this guy dressed in all black, wearing a vest has an assault rifle. And he's just shooting at people. Right across, he was at like Francesca's area, shooting at people. So we got everyone in the store at the back of the store and just camped out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP) REID: Juliette Kayyem, I want to start with you. I know you have said that you were surprised that in that most recent briefing we just received that they did not mention the shooters name. What exactly is your take on that?

KAYYEM: So it's 6 hours later, he's dead. They know who he is, his car is there. There are plenty of pictures, I can go online and people are trying to identify him or think that they have. And so part of this is law enforcement has always been forthcoming when it went impacted investigation, because you don't want outsiders or people who get this information wrong to start targeting or thinking that it's someone different.

The failure to mention the name is as I just said in the last time was sort of consistent with just major gaps in the narrative right now. What was the gun? Who is he? And where's he from? Did he come in from out of Texas? Is he a neighbor of people who hang out at the mall?

All those things are relevant. And then of course, the timeframe of what happened in there. If the first calls come and police do not arrive for several minutes, then we have something to learn. We do know that it was fortunate that there was a police officer on who had been called to the area for a different reason who ended up being the person who shot the victim.

So where were other police? What was the timing there? And so if those things are relevant, this is how law enforcement learns. This is how Homeland Security and Public Safety learn how but I'm very much focused on basic facts you need to be you know, politicized already.

[22:45:00]

We're going to find out what gun it is? And as I said, there's nothing to kind of hide it, we're going to find out who the individual is and what his motivation is? There, you can speculate for only so long these facts will come out. And they should come out by law enforcement, by the public officials, who should want to get to the bottom of this and to understand what killed so many of their citizens?

What aspects of the gunman and also what weapon killed so many of their citizens? That is why I'm a little undone by that press conference. And it's definitely was not consistent with what we would expect from law enforcement 6 hours later, with a known body count and the gunman dead.

There are not big questions left and then admitting that he was a single gunman. There are not many questions that they need answered right now that would be harmed if they disclose that information.

REID: Chief Ramsay it's, of course been a very long and difficult day for law enforcement in Allen, Texas. We could see its dark there now we've also heard reports of storms. So will this investigation combing that scene? Will that continue overnight?

RAMSEY: Yes, absolutely. I'll continue overnight. You know, if it's an outdoor scene, if there is bad weather coming in, they've got to figure out how they can, you know, do something to kind of protect the scene? So they'll go through that pretty carefully. So they don't have to run the risk of having evidence wash away or anything like that.

But there'll be at it all night, however long it takes. I mean, you got 8 victims here you got, you know, 6 of them there at the scene. You've got the shooter there at the scene. So yes, they've got a lot of work to do. So they'll be going at it all night long.

And as Juliette mentioned earlier too I mean, like with the weapons by now, they've already traced it. They know it may, where was it purchased originally? Was this a private sale? I mean, how this guy got his hands on the gun? I mean, they're going to trace the history of it.

And they're going to talk to every individual along the way, if he's not the original purchaser of the firearm. So there's a lot of information they could have provided. I mean, the first press conference, I could understand that it was very much information at all at that time that they could verify.

But at this point in time, they know it could be a little more detailed, unless they haven't really gotten their hands on, you know, certain critical individuals that might have some valuable information, friends, relatives, things like that they still want to be able to interview that I can understand that giving the name of the shooter up.

But certainly the weapon and some other information, a more concrete timeline, those kinds of things should be given out.

REID: And Steve both you and Chief Ramsey have suggested that they may be withholding identity of the shooter. So that the media doesn't swarm house and apartments, doesn't seek out witnesses. Those are all certainly things that happen in the course of news coverage. But how difficult is the process for law enforcement of one, tracing the identity of someone like this and to figuring out information critical information about the weapon?

MOORE: Well, it's really fairly quickly to get the identification done. And the weapon unless you've had some kind of serial number removed, something like that, that's not going to be very hard either. What's going to be time consuming is mirroring the computers that he had getting warrants, getting access to all his social media?

And you know, sometimes you have to send agents out in San Francisco out to Silicon Valley to serve warrants for that kind of stuff. So this can all be very complicated. I don't see why the weapon, the type of weapon has not been released. But it's, you know, it is a time consuming investigation. And that's the only reason I can see why they wouldn't release the identity of the shooter.

REID: Oh, Chief Ramsey. We just heard Steve sort of describe the process everything they have to go through seeing that this is becoming increasingly common in this country. Is it accurate to say that these mass shootings are diverting law enforcement resources from combating other crimes?

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RAMSEY: Well I mean that's part of the business now unfortunately you have to be able to deal with a variety of situations certainly that's a drain on resources because something like this requires more than just one, two, or three people to handle. So fortunately, you do have a joint response to this type of situation.

So a department like, Allen, that's probably limited in terms of the number of personnel, I don't know how many people have, but it can't be that large of an agency. They'll have a lot of help from federal, state, local departments that will take some of the load off them because you know, we're looking at the mall right now, 911 calls are still coming in for other issues in that particular city.

So you can't strip your entire department on one case. And that's why it's so important that you have mutual aid agreements. And we have others that are willing to come in and help and that balance the workload a lot.

REID: Juliette Kayyem, we are winding down here. But I know you've really made it a point to highlight how difficult this is for victims of mass shootings, not only those whose loved ones are killed, not only those who are injured, but also those who are in the vicinity. So what is your message to those people who are in any way involved in this today?

KAYYEM: Well, I mean, one is that they are victims. And as Chief Ramsey noted, I think, and very rightfully an addition to my comments as so as law enforcement, public safety, hospital workers, all who are impacted by these sudden moments of, you know, disruption, that are happening so frequently.

So they are victims in the same way if they had gotten physically harmed, and that they should seek help that communities do come together. But what has been found in safety and security, that sense of helplessness, that many people probably find themselves in situations like this or just gun violence.

Generally, the counter to that is action is to actually commit not it doesn't even have to be political, but helping in ways whether it's volunteer or assisting victims and ways in which you can actually empower yourself. That's what the data shows us that engagement is actually good.

We've talked a lot about mental health issues and crime on air, and these kinds of guns violence and engagement whether rather than withdrawal is absolutely necessary. But again, the numbers are most important, obviously, in terms of those dead, and those injured.

But the circles of harm, that one incident on one night and on a Saturday in Texas is going to have for years and years to come and those are immeasurable.

REID: Steve Moore, we've of course, all been to an outdoor mall like this at one point or another, but they are clearly very soft targets. Is there anything from your experience and perspective that people should be doing differently?

MOORE: I would say live your life, the way you would normally live your life. It's a big world, the chances of you being involved, though the chances are growing, they're still kind of miniscule. And if you crawl into a hole because of something like this, they win even if they you never see a shooter like this.

So as horrible as it sounds, we go on with life as we can we do what we can. We have to as a culture, we have to start having reasoned, respectful conversations on both sides of the issue, and finding points of agreement.

So that we can not only deal with mental health issues, not only deal with hardening these targets, because there will always be some kind of weapon. But we have to discuss these types of weapons and we have to discuss it in good faith on both sides.

REID: And Chief Ramsey, we have just a minute here. I want to give you the last word 8 people killed in a mall in Texas today, 3 people fighting for their lives. What is your takeaway today?

RAMSEY: Just one more example of the gun violence is going unchecked in our country right now. And again, it's a mass shooting. There mass shootings take place every day on the streets of our cities. I mean, it just is never ending. And police officers are doing the best they can to try to deal with it are outgunned and it just seems like it's absolutely no end in sight.

[22:55:00]

So at some point in time, like Steve said there has to be reasonable discussion on both sides. There's got to be some middle ground that people can find, because I just refuse to believe there's nothing that can be done. People just have the will to get it done.

And if our elected officials don't want to do it, kick them out and put people in narrative. We'll have that conversation. That's the only way this is going to change anything.

REID: Well, Juliette Kayyem, Chief Charles Ramsey and Steve Moore. Thank you so much. Also, thank you to all the reporters that joined us Camila Bernal, Ed Lavandera and Jeremy Diamond. Stay with CNN and cnn.com for coverage overnight and updates on the shooting in Texas.

Plus, join CNN "This Morning" with Victor Blackwell and Amara Walker tomorrow starting at 6 am. In Washington, I'm Paul Reid. Good night.

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