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King Charles III & Queen Camilla Formally Crowned; Biden: Republicans "Manufacturing" a Crisis over Debt Limit; IRS Whistleblower's Attorneys Meet with Congressional Investigators; Newly Released Video Shows Suspect One Month before Killing; Writers Strike Enters 5th Day as TV Production Dates Loom; Writers' Strike Enters Fifth Day As TV Production Dates Loom; DeSantis Presidential Countdown Begins; Biden On Age: "I Have Acquired A Hell Of A Lot Of Wisdom"; Police Respond To Active Shooter At Texas Outlet Mall. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 06, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:35]

PAULA REID, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Paula Reid in Washington. Jim Acosta is off.

History unfolded before the world today. For the first time in 70 years, there is a new British monarch sitting on the throne.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God save the King.

CROWD: God save the King.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: King Charles III was officially crowned today at Westminster Abbey, a moment he's been waiting for more than seven decades. His wife, Camilla, also received her crown, officially making her Britain's new queen.

Tens of thousands of royal enthusiasts filled the streets through London to greet the royal family.

The Twitter account for Kensington Palace released this video a short time ago.

CNN's Max Foster has more of today's highlights from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: A day of destiny. The patient prince crowned at last. Charles III, King of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth realms.

London stood still as well wishers lined the streets, huddled in the rain to join the celebration of British monarchy. Leaders, dignitaries, family members and celebrities, more than 2,000 gathered in Westminster Abbey for this once in a generation event.

Prince Harry entered alongside other royals, including Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie. The Prince and Princess of Wales arrived behind the King and Queen and followed them into the abbey in what appeared to be a break in the schedule.

King and Queen, married in 2005, arrived in splendor. The couple wore their respective robe of states. Camilla's in the robe of states originally made for Queen Elizabeth II.

The deeply religious ceremony moved through several stages. First the recognition. Charles faced the four points of the compass, symbolically presenting himself to the people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I here present unto you King Charles.

FOSTER: Breaking from tradition, Charles read a prayer aloud.

KING CHARLES III, BRITISH MONARCH: We may discover the ways of gentleness and be led into the paths of peace.

Foster: another first, a gospel choir. Before the oath, Charles acknowledged the role of the Church of England to foster an environment in which people of all faiths and beliefs may live freely.

KING CHARLES III: I will.

FOSTER: 70 years since his mother before him, Charles fulfills his destiny and takes his place in the holy lineage of kings and queens.

Made for the last King Charles in 1661, the sovereign crown comprises solid gold, set with rubies and sapphires and other gems. Would the crown fit?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God save the King.

CROWD: God save the King.

FOSTER: Queen Camilla received her own coronation. Like her husband, she was anointed with holy oil and the keeper of the jewel House, then presented the consort's ring, marrying her to the King, to God and their people.

[17:04:52]

FOSTER: From Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace, a vast procession of 4,000 ceremonial troops accompanied the royals into a new era, a new Britain ruled by its newly-crowned monarch.

Max Foster, CNN -- Buckingham Palace, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: With me now to discuss today's historic coronation is Sally Bedell Smith. She's a CNN royal commentator and author of "George VI and Elizabeth: The Marriage that Saved the Monarchy". All right. Sally, what is your big takeaway from today?

SALLY BEDELL SMITH, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the big takeaway just as Max alluded to, this is what he's been waiting for for his whole life and also that he was anointed and crowned, as was the woman he's loved for many, many years, Camilla. And so, it had this kind of wonderful almost romantic quality to it, even though it was a deeply religious and solemn occasion. It was also a state constitutional occasion.

And I think it was just such a -- you know, there was so much symbolism in it, and it was, you know, it was just a kind of a wonderful, concluding appearance (ph) to a relationship that has had many twists and turns.

REID: Absolutely. Put into context for us, though, just how historic this day was. This is not something most people had seen in their lifetimes.

BEDELL SMITH: Well, it has been 70 years. And before that it's been 86 years, actually, since another king and queen went through the same rituals. And it was very touching to me, and I think to a lot of people that the King in particular honored his grandfather and grandmother. His grandfather by wearing a number of the vestments that he had worn.

And I think it is a moment, not only to honor the traditions of the monarchy which go back a thousand years, but in an imaginative way, King Charles also brought some innovations. He has been, for his whole life, a believer in bringing faiths together.

So on the one hand, he is the defender of the faith and he is required by law to be the defender of the faith. He also did, in a number of ways today, honor the other faiths in this -- in this nation, then vowed to protect them. And that he expressed both in the beginning of the service and at the end of the service.

So I think he -- you know, it was -- it was as profoundly a Church of England set of rituals and ceremonies as we can see. But on the other hand, it was also an affirmation of his belief that it was equally his job to protect faiths and even nature.

There was a real strong theme of his reverence for nature, even in the -- in the shield behind which he was anointed. There are all sorts of -- there are embroidered all sorts of themes of nature.

And I was glad that he chose to be anointed in privacy. I thought that -- you know, that was a very sacred moment. It was one that his own mother insisted on keeping away from the television cameras. And we can just view it as a little bit of a mystery in an otherwise very grand and beautiful celebration.

REID: As we have said many times today, he has been waiting quite a long time for this moment. Does that make it any easier for him to transition into this role, given how long he's been groomed for it? BEDELL SMITH: I think it -- I think it does make it easier for him in

the autumn of his life. He's had many, many years to express his opinions on a lot of subjects and to, essentially, do what he wanted to do in the way of charitable work.

[17:09:42]

BEDELL SMITH: And I -- when he gave his speech the night after his mother died, he said, I am now ready to put aside these initiatives, these passions, these obligations that I've had in my other role and assume the new ones that, in a way, are more limiting to him, but he is -- he seemed -- he seems to be fully reconciled to that.

I think going through this ritual today really underlined the gravity of what it means to be king. It is a different sort of experience from what he has had for many, many decades.

REID: Sally Bedell Smith, thank you very much.

And if you missed our live coverage of the coronation of King Charles, don't worry. You can watch it tonight at 8:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

Meantime, President Biden accusing Republicans of manufacturing prices amid the high stakes standoff over the debt limit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The last thing this country needs, after all we have been through, is a manufactured crisis. And that's what this is, a manufactured crisis. And that's what it is from beginning to end is a manufactured crisis, driven by the MAGA Republicans in the Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: The president is set to meet at the White House with four top congressional leaders on Tuesday as the clock ticks toward a potential default, which could come as soon as June 1st.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is at the White House with the latest.

Jeremy, what more can you tell us about this back and forth between the president and Senate Republicans?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well listen, if you are looking for any signs of optimism here in these debt ceiling negotiations, you are really not seeing any. Instead, what we're seeing is a hardening of positions on both sides and today in particular with 43 Senate Republicans. That is all Senate Republicans except for six of them standing behind the position of the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy that he will not support a clean debt ceiling. That he wants to see spending cuts and budget reforms.

These 43 Senate Republicans writing in a letter to the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer that they will not allow a vote on raising the debt ceiling without, quote, "substantive spending and budget reforms. And so, the White House is now firing back in a very fiery statement from the White House's Deputy Press Secretary Andrew Bates saying, quote, "Every one of these senators just announced to the country and their constituents that they are holding millions of Americans jobs, businesses and retirement accounts hostage.

At a moment when the country just posted historic job gains, this is no time for these senators to reverse their support for avoiding default without conditions during the Trump presidency. They need to honor their constitutional obligation to pay our bills and not unilaterally inflict a recession on the country."

Now this is significant. I mean, we have already seen the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. He has already suggested that look, the White House has to negotiate with the Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy. But this increasingly makes it clear that Senate Republicans are not going to be the off ramp that perhaps the White House at one point hoped that they might be, to allow for some kind of a clean debt ceiling increase.

Instead, what is happening just days before President Biden sits down with the Speaker of the House and the other congressional leaders is that Senate Republicans, the majority of them, the overwhelming majority of them standing in lock step with the Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, and House Republicans who just passed that bill that said we will raise the debt ceiling if you agree to nearly cutting the federal budget by nearly 14 percent.

So all of this coming to a head on Tuesday. Folks here at the White House are hoping that they can get these things on two separate tracks. President Biden has said repeatedly raising the debt ceiling is Congress' constitutional obligation. But he has said he is willing to have a conversation about spending but without that threat of the debt ceiling looming over them, Paula.

REID: Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

And attorneys for an alleged IRS whistleblower who claims to have evidence of political interference in the Justice Department's criminal probe into Hunter Biden met with congressional investigators yesterday. According to multiple sources, the attorneys want to lay the ground work for what their client hopes to share with Congress.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins us with more. Alayna, what more can you tell us?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well Paula, this whistleblower's identity is still unknown to the public. But what we do know is that they are an IRS agent and they worked on this Hunter Biden case.

And our latest reporting shows that the agent's attorneys met with key congressional investigators on Friday yesterday, and they offered a glimpse of what this whistleblower could potentially tell Congress and these committees in an interview. And I'm told that these committees expect that interview to take place in the near future.

[17:14:45] TREENE: Now one of the key claims that the agent is making is that they say that they have information that directly contradicts what Attorney General Merrick Garland told Congress earlier this year when he said that he would not interfere into this investigation into Hunter Biden and that he's followed through on that pledge.

Now, CNN asked Garland about this this last week and he said that he stands by his testimony. But that has not deterred these congressional investigations from wanting these investigators wanting to sit down with the whistleblower and hear what they have to say in person.

REID: And we know so many times there have been promises of whistleblowers with potentially damning revelations, but they haven't always panned out. so based on your reporting, where does this leave things in the broader investigation?

TREENE: Right. Well, it's interesting. I mean this latest allegations have really thrust the criminal investigation into Hunter Biden back into the spotlight, I mean. And I know you know this. \

For years now, federal prosecutors have been investigating Hunter Biden and have weighed bringing charges against him, including relating to tax fraud and tax crimes as well as making a false statement. And so far, I should say no charges have been filed and Hunter Biden does deny any wrongdoing.

We also have heard from President Biden himself. He gave an interview last night where he addressed the allegations surrounding his son and he said that he continues to stand by him and that he's proud of him. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Sir, there is something personal that's affecting you. Your son, while there is no ties to you, could be charged by your Department of Justice. How will that impact your presidency?

BIDEN: First of all, my son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him. And, in fact, my presidency by making me feel proud of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So Paula, I mean -- and I know you know this as well -- this is very common and standard of how the president has responded to questions about his son. He says that he supports him and that he does not think that it will affect his presidency, nor his 2024 re-election campaign.

REID: We will be watching. Thank you for sharing your great reporting.

TREENE: Thank you.

REID: All right. And coming up, what newly-released documents from the search of Bryan Kohberger's home are revealing about the investigation into the killings of four University of Idaho students.

And on the day of the Kentucky Derby, another horse dies at Churchill Downs. Details on that ahead.

Plus, what a CNN investigation found about allegations that Johnson & Johnson's now discontinued baby powder caused cancer.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:17:19]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Newly-released body cameras from police and court documents are providing a new look into the man accused of stabbing four University of Idaho students to death. Washington State grad student Bryan Kohberger is charged with four counts of first degree murder in connection with the killings in nearby Moscow, Idaho last November.

CNN's Veronica Miracle reports on what is in this newly released information.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. I am Officer Langos (ph).

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A simple traffic stop, a month before Bryan Kohberger was arrested for the murders of four University of Idaho students. This body cam video taken 20 minutes away from that crime scene on the campus of Washington State University.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You ran the red light.

BRYAN KOHBERGER, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF 4 UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO STUDENTS: What actually happened was I was stuck in the middle of the intersection. So I was forced to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was behind you the whole time.

MIRACLE: Kohberger who was getting his PhD in criminal justice at the school, presses for more on the law he was violating.

KOHBERGER: I'm just curious about the law. I don't mean to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no. Yes, I can find it for you. Yes, uh-huh.

KOHBERGER: It never even occurred to me that that was actually something wrong, but I -- well, except for the fact that I was blocking the crosswalk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

MIRACLE: The video significant because it was later cited in a probable cause affidavit as one of the videos that linked Kohberger to a Hyundai Elantra seen in the vicinity of the Idaho crime scene around the time of the murders. It was allegedly that vehicle now with Washington plates that a license plate reader found in Colorado a month after the murders and later tracked to the rural Pennsylvania home where Kohberger was eventually arrested.

KOHBERGER: I'm actually just from a very rural area, so we just don't have crosswalks.

MIRACLE: The Washington traffic stop not the only video being released by authorities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:L Police department, search warrant. Come to the door.

MIRACLE: Here, police search Kohberger's campus apartment after his arrest. These new warrant documents indicate two presumptive positive results for blood from a reddish brown stain on an uncased pillow and a mattress cover with a brown irregular incredible drip.

None of this alone implicates Kohberger but makes clear authorities hope DNA evidence will seal their case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope that helps. Yes. Have a good day.

KOHBERGER: Certainly. You, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.

MIRACLE: Incidentally, Kohberger was let off with a warning for that traffic stop. Another interesting note, the warrant documents state that his apartment was sparse, noting that there was no shower curtain or trash in the trash cans.

Kohberger's previous attorney has said that he plans on pleading not guilty after a preliminary hearing that starts on June 26th. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Now to Columbus, Ohio where the city's police chief is lashing out at the accessibility of guns after a series of overnight shootings. At least two people are dead and several more injured.

The chief warns guns are winding up in the hands of too many people and blames a new Ohio law that allows eligible adults to carry a concealed hand gun without a license or training.

And no arrest yet in the shooting death of an off-duty Chicago police officer early this morning. The officer 28-year-old Arianna Preston (ph) had just finished her shift just after 1:30 this morning. Chicago police say Preston had worked there for three years and was heading home at the time of the shooting.

[17:24:55]

REID: And coming up, a Hollywood writers' strike is underway with no end in sight. We'll bring you up-to-date on where negotiations stand and speak with two writers who are part of that walk-out, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Well, if you tune in to "Saturday Night Live" tonight, you might experience deja vu. The show, like many others impacted by the ongoing writers' strike, is currently relying on replays. With the start of production for some Fall TV shows only weeks away, many of your favorite binge-worthy shows could be affected.

So with us to discuss the strikes are television writers Rick Cleveland and Caroline Bernard. Thank you both for joining us.

[17:30:00]

REID: Rick, you have worked on shows like "Six Feet Under," "House of Cards" and "The West Wing." You wrote about those experiences in an op-ed for the "L.A. Times" illustrating how different it is for writers today compared to when you first started.

When you look at those differences, why is this strike happening now?

RICK CLEVELAND, WRITER ON STRIKE: Well, it's precisely because of those differences.

When I started, you would be on a show for the entire length of that season's production. So you might start a month before production started.

But you would be -- typically you would be onset for your episode. You would be in editing, in casting, working with the director that was directing your episode.

Now I'm in a room with writers who, some of them have been working for ten years and they have never set foot onset. They have never been in editing. They have never seen how -- how the sausage actually gets made.

And, so, that whole mentoring process has been cut out of the whole entire industry.

REID: So, Caroline, you have been front and center on the picket line. As a young writer, can you tell me about your experience and give us some insight into what exactly the demands are from strikers?

CAROLINE RENARD, WRITER ON STRIKE: Yes. I have been front and center. I was the WGA captain this week on the picket line.

I'm just echoing what Rick said. You know, two generations of writers where I'm not getting the mentorship from writers like Rick. I'm not getting to be onset. I'm not getting the chance to produce my own episodes or the chance to learn so that I could one day be a show writer.

So those are the things that I have been missing as a younger writer. And so those demands are allowing writers to be onset. The roles are shorter now. Many rooms have been the wave of the town where because of streamers

where your room is wrapped before production even starts, so you are not in production. You are not in post.

And, so, streaming has turned writing into a gig economy. It's turned it into like a freelance gig where you are just hopefully hopping from job to job.

But you have writers that get up to producer levels and they don't have any set experience, which then hinders them from becoming show runners.

So it's like which came first, the chicken or the egg? They turn it around on us and say, you don't have any set experience.

Also, writer pays are down because of inflation and cost of living has gone up. Our pay hasn't gone up. So those are some of the things that we're fighting for.

We're also fighting for residuals. Back in the day, you would be able to get a check from an episode you wrote, if it re-ran on TV, and that would be able to sustain you in between gigs.

Now a streaming residual does not even cover a coffee sometimes. I have a friend who got a check from Hulu, and her residual is $4. That's not enough compensation for the work you do as a writer.

REID: And, Rick, we keep talking about how streaming changed things. But can we unpack that a little for people that aren't familiar with the industry? What changed? Is it a decline in business models?

Why are things so different now?

CLEVELAND: Yes. The business model changed with streaming. Now you get shows for series that have fewer episodes, anywhere from eight to 10 instead of, you know, premium cable.

When I was on "Six Feet Under," we did 12 episodes a year. Network TV does 22. But now you can get your same fee, but if you are only doing eight or 10 episodes, that shortens the amount of money you are getting.

But also production lengths have grown over time. So you can -- those 10 episodes take anywhere from 10 months to over a year to produce.

And if you are in a writers' room for only 20 weeks, which is the typical contract, and you're off work, all the scripts are banked before, you know, production starts., that means, even if the show wants you to come back for another season, you will be off work from anywhere from 30 to more than 50 weeks.

REID: To Caroline's point, definitely sounds, again, like a gig economy now.

And I want to bring you both into a conversation and a question about artificial intelligence. I mean, how do you both see this impacting the film industry? How would you like to see it handled?

Caroline, I want to start with you.

RENARD: I want it to be taken seriously. It seems as though we brought up in our demands that we wanted to make sure that A.I. wouldn't be used to replace us. And it seems as though AMPT didn't want to even come to the table to discuss that.

[17:34:57]

And A.I. is not -- a writer is a person. A writer has experience. A writer has life. A writer has emotions. A writer has heart.

And to me, if a writer -- A.I. -- a robot can't replace a writer. And I know with the way that the corporations work, they only see the bottom line. They only see profit. They only see money.

They want to turn out work as fast as they possibly can. They think, hey, let's get a machine to do that.

But that's not how writing works. And I would like for our concerns about A.I. to be taken seriously.

I don't -- I don't exactly know if that's something that, you know, they're, you know, trying to do now, but we're trying to make sure that's not something they think they can take over places with.

REID: And quickly, Rick, I want to let you weigh in there.

CLEVELAND: A.I. is straight-up plagiarism because what it generates, it only generates can only be generated by what it's been fed and what it learns. and what it's learning from are things that have been written by real writers.

We heard from one studio exec was planning on having A.I. write scripts and when the strike is over, he will hire writers to re-write them.

REID: Wow. Rick Cleveland and Carolina Renard, thank you so much for joining us.

RENARD: Thank you.

CLEVELAND: Thank you.

REID: Up next, how Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is pitching himself to a national audience ahead of an expected White House bid. And why the countdown for his announcement has now begun.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:49]

REID: All eyes are on Ron DeSantis as the Florida legislature wraps up its term with the governor widely expected to announce his bid for the Republican presidential nomination.

DeSantis has focused his second term agenda on so-called culture war issues, including abortion, gender identity, and his ongoing feud with Disney.

But polls show him way behind former President Trump in a hypothetical matchup. And observers wonder if his political style will gain traction beyond Florida.

Let's discuss with political scientist, Larry Sabato.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Larry, on Friday, DeSantis signed a bill nullifying Disney's agreement in Florida. Here he is today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): And we have done a lot of stuff to go back and fight woke ideology.

Since our skirmish last year, Disney has not been involved in any of those issues. They have not made a peep. That is the most important, that Disney is not allowed to pervert the system to the detriment of Floridians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So in that sense, this is a win for people.

DESANTIS: That's a win for the people of Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Are you surprised to see him still waging this fight? And is there any chance this plays out to his favor among voters?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, he's clearly stubborn. He's going to stick with that because -- and you have to say this for him. First, he has to get the Republican nomination.

And the Republican voters today in the vast majority of crime areas and caucuses are very, very conservative. And they react well to culture war issues like this.

For the, again, electorate, Paula, this is not a popular move at all. Doubling down on your war with Mickey Mouse is not going to make you popular in a November generation election, if somehow he gets the Republican nomination.

REID: So if you are advising DeSantis today, what would you tell him he needs to do going forward?

SABATO: Well, there are always things you can suggest that are impossible, like changing personalities. Or you can suggest tailoring what he is doing and the issues that he is stressing to make himself more acceptable to a general electorate. You know, the legislature in Florida just passed almost everything he wanted because both are now overwhelmingly Republican and they're backing his presidential bid.

Some of the bills that were passed that he signed probably could sell to a broader electorate.

He's made it more likely that there will be more capital punishment in Florida because he is lowering the number of jurors you need to get capital punishment enacted in a case that. Now it's unanimous. You have to have all 12 jurors. He's lowering it to eight.

There are other subjects he would be better off never mentioning again, including his very strict, very conservative six-week ban on abortion, which is not going to sell nationally. It will sell to the right wing of the Republican Party, but that's it.

So he's got to pick issues that are acceptable to the Republican right but also don't offend millions of voters in the general electorate who are not die-hard Republicans.

REID: Well, meanwhile, President Biden addressed the criticisms about his age during an interview yesterday.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why would an 82-year-old Joe Biden be the right person for the most important job in the world?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because I have acquired a hell of a lot of wisdom and know more than the vast majority of the people. I am more experienced than anybody that's run for the office. I think I have proven myself to be honorable as well as also effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: It's pretty obvious this is one of the big knocks against Biden heading into 2024. So what do you make of how he's handling this issue so far?

[17:44:57]

SABATO: Well, the argument he's just used is actually a good one. Of course, I'm a little biased. I use that same argument with my students, I've gained a lot of experience in life in my seven decades.

But it is never going to go away. The issue is never going to go away. And I think he recognizes that.

Some people say it is because of Vice President Kamala Harris. I think it is much more than that.

It just contradicts common wisdom that someone who is going to be 82 in an election year, potentially 86 at the end of a second term, is not going to be able to deal with the issues in the same complicated way that maybe someone who is much younger could.

But it is always about the opposition. You know, Donald Trump is only four years younger. If he's the Republican nominee, it is almost impossible to see Republicans using that issue effectively.

Now, if the Republicans pick Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley or Tim Scott or one of the younger candidates, I could see that becoming a major issue. Though, not necessarily the determining one.

I don't think, in the end, that's going to pick the president.

REID: Larry Sabato, thank you.

SABATO: Thank you, Paula.

REID: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:29]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

REID: Breaking news. We are following reports of an active shooter at an outlet mall in Allen, Texas, outside of Dallas. You're looking at a massive police response outside the mall.

CNN's Camila Bernal is following this.

Camila, what do we know?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Paula, yes, this is a developing situation, as you can see from the images. It is a little bit chaotic in Allen, Texas.

We know the shooting happened at the Allen Premium Outlets. It is still happening as we speak. Authorities trying to get a handle on the situation of what is going on.

As far as we know, this is still developing. That is key here. We do not know a lot of the details.

We do know that, as you can see there, people are fleeing the mall, trying to figure out exactly what is happening.

We know that the ATF was headed that way, responding to an active shooter. Of course, there are probably multiple agencies.

It appears that the Allen Police Department is the agency really leading this active-shooter situation. We have reached out to the Allen Police Department and they have said they are extremely busy, as they, of course, should be at the moment.

We're waiting for confirmation from the department. But they are asking people to stay away from this area. Of course,

you're seeing everybody trying to get out of the mall. They do not want anyone else trying to come into the mall.

There are many people trying to figure out where their loved ones are. There was one man that one of our affiliates we spoke to who was waiting for his daughter who was working inside the outlets.

Here is what he is telling our affiliate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she is safe. I saw the cops at the door. They don't want to move until they find the guy. I think I'm blessed and we're just praying.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Your daughter is saying all the stores are on lockdown?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She worked in the Sunglass Hut.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know which stores the shooting happened at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know that. Guys are telling me probably outside. She's telling me the shooting is at a store.

When I asked what happened, she's not telling me anything. She said, we are fine. The police is next to me and I saw police surrounded the store. He's hiding somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But not in the Sunglass Hut?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did not give me the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Unfortunately, this is not the only parent that is most likely extremely worried about what is going on inside that mall.

This is just another mass shooting in the United States. Another community having to deal with this.

Because we don't know how many people were injured, if there were injuries or fatalities.

We do know that people are having to deal with the emotional aspect of this as well. No matter what happens in terms of what police tell us, this is, again, another mass shooting that people will have to deal with in this community. And it is obviously not going to be easy.

We're, of course, trying to figure out what is happening. Our team in Dallas is on its way to the scene. Of course, we're working the phones, trying to figure out what exactly is going on in terms of law enforcement and sources in that area.

Again, we're still trying to figure this out. We just know that, as of now, this happened at the Allen Premium Outlets in Allen, Texas. This is near Dallas, Texas.

We're, of course, keeping an eye on all of this -- Paula?

REID: We see in these pictures what appears to be a pretty orderly exit from portions of this shopping center. People walking in lines, appearing to be escorted by police. Some people keeping their hands up.

Also with us right now is former D.C. police chief and Philadelphia police commissioner, Charles Ramsey.

Take us through what police are likely doing right now. We can see a very significant police presence here. What are they doing?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Obviously, they're trying to get people out of the mall. And it does look very orderly. So that indicates to me that they're combing through the mall store by store. And as they clear a particular area, then they're taking the people out.

[17:55:05]

They still have to interview, so they're not going to let people go wherever they want to go. They'll have to interview people.

Right now, they're trying to find a gunman. So they're combing through the store best they can. And at the same time, get people out of harm's way.

REID: These are huge lines. I mean, that's dozens and dozens of people. How do they know where to start a search like this?

RAMSEY: I'm sure they got some information when the shots were fired, if, in fact, there were shots fired in there, where they came from. That's part of the outlet mall.

Outlet malls are huge. They've probably isolated a section of that mall to begin that process of getting people out of there.

But they have to be careful. They don't want to let the offender out, either.

I'm sure they're doing something to make sure the people they're evacuating out are not armed and are not likely to be a suspect.

REID: I also want to bring in former NYPD detective and law enforcement consultant, Tom Verni.

Tom, we've been seeing people walking out, some, with their hands up. How has training with law enforcement changed over the years as we've seen more and more of these incidents at busy places like a mall? TOM VERNI, LAW ENFORCEMENT CONSULTANT: Another unfortunate day for

America where we have another crazed gunman causing chaos in our society, right?

Law enforcement -- look, we've all had to -- from coast to coast, we've had to train and retrain and train again and kind of rethink about how we go into situations like this.

In the past, we would kind of form a perimeter outside. Kind of stand and wait and try to get as much information. And then maybe try to go in.

Nowadays, whether it be a mall, a movie theater, a concert, a school, or a church, now officers are trained to just run in. Run in, identify where the threat is based on, generally, very little information. And then try to disarm or disable that threat from continuing their carnage.

REID: Yes.

VERNI: So the training has sort of evolved in the last couple decades we've seen these unrelenting shootings take place in our country.

REID: And, Charles Ramsey, I want to go back to you for a moment.

Tony Wright, an Allen resident whose house backs up to the Allen Premium Outlets, said his family thought they heard construction before they realized it was gunshots.

Wright said he was driving away. He didn't hear the gunshots himself but his family called moments later, quote, freaking out, saying they heard gunfire. His son said they think they heard 60 to 70 gunshots.

Again, they thought it was construction at first. They said, quote, "Everyone thought it was hammering."

Once they saw people fleeing the outlet mall, the family locked the doors and hunkered down. They tried calling 911 but got a busy signal.

Chief Ramsey, what do those details tell you?

RAMSEY First of all, this is in the early stages of this investigation. There is a lot of information coming in. Some will be accurate. Some not so accurate.

But if it is anywhere near as many shots as they're saying they heard, then certainly, you're looking at the possibility of having casualties. Having, unfortunately, a relatively high number of casualties, if, in fact, you had 60 shots go off.

But again, this is early. Very early. There will be a lot of information coming in.

We don't know what happened. We don't know if there were shots fired. We don't know if there was anyone injured. People are leaving in a very orderly fashion. The police don't seem to

be rushing too much. I don't know what they have inside the mall right now that they're trying to contain.

You can imagine, with an outlet mall, how many entrances there are. And you try to cover them so there's some order to the way in which you get people out.

If there is, in fact, a shooter there, obviously, he will want to be able to get out himself.

So the police have to do the best they can to try to get as many people there as possible. Cover as many exits as possible. At the same time, they have to do a very systematic search to try to find the individual who is responsible.

REID: CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, is also with us.

I want to ask you, based on what you're seeing and hearing, what is standing out to you at this moment?

[17:59:54]

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Just the images. As Chief Ramsey was saying, we don't know enough. The eyewitness reports and also the reports of what people were hearing audio in terms of how many bullets.

They're often unreliable at first because people are hearing different things. We don't know yet what this looks like.