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8 Dead, 7 Wounded As Gunman Shoots Shoppers At Texas Outlet Mall; Several Immigrants Among 7 Killed In Crash Near TX Shelter; Crisis At The Border; Wagner Chief: May Stay In Bakhmut After Being Promised Ammo; Countdown To Default: U.S. To Breach Debt Ceiling As Soon As June 1. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired May 07, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:25]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin in Texas where a weekend shopping trip turned to pure carnage. Eight people are dead, seven more wounded after a gunman opened fire into a crowded space at an outlet mall in Allen, Texas. That's just north of Dallas.

And warning, some of what you're about to see is disturbing.

A witness dashcam capturing the moment the killer got out of his car and immediately began firing, ambushing unsuspecting people walking by. And we're pausing this video before the shooting actually begins, but other witnesses were recording as the attack unfolded.

All right. What you hear are multiple rapid gunshots, and you see, of course, people running for their lives. A photo obtained by CNN appears to show the gunman after he was shot by a responding officer. And you can see an AR-15 style rifle nearby. The gunman is clad in black body armor, and appears to have several extra magazines strapped to his chest.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is on the scene there in Allen, Texas. Ed, what more are police saying, if anything, at this point? I'm sure people are still very much shaken up.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Fredricka, quite frankly this is the staggering thing about this investigation so far, is that we have heard very little from investigators here in Allen, Texas, and we just got notice from city of Allen officials that there will be no press briefings today in this investigation.

We've also been told that the lead agency now investigating this crime is the Texas department of public safety. So kind of just staggering news that officials still here not really answering any questions as to what unfolded here almost 24 hours ago.

But what we do know here is that the crime scene of the outlet mall, the parking lot still cordoned off as investigators continued to work that scene. \

There are still dozens if not several hundred cars still in that parking lot that is still cordoned off.

And we've seen the outpouring of grief. You can see here over my shoulder someone has brought out and they've been setting up a memorial with crosses here just outside of the parking lot in the entrance into the outlet mall.

And as you mentioned, you know, significant news in terms of the images that we've been able to see and put together from this -- from what we've seen from witnesses so far. And there's, you know, so many questions as to exactly how all of this unfolded, the timeline of how it unfolded.

But in our course of reporting and talking to witnesses there, many of the victims we believe, were shot and killed near the H&M store inside the parking lot area, and that the gunman was later taken down around the corner from where that happened.

So exactly what transpired in those movements and how the gunman was able to navigate this area, those are many of the questions that we do have.

Fredricka, I can also share some updates on the patients that we have so far. There were nine people in all transported to hospitals yesterday afternoon. Two of those patients were dead on arrival and the latest information we have is that one -- three of those patients are still in critical condition and three others in fair condition.

So the work of trying to save those lives continues today. And for many of the witnesses who were here yesterday, the images and the experiences they had is something they will never forget.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KINGSLEY EZEH, WITNESSED OUTLET MALL SHOOTING: I was walking across some DKNY going into the Thomas store and then I just felt like there was people running behind me. So I turned around and then I saw two ladies rushing towards me and then one was like someone is shooting, someone is shooting and then right behind her on the other side, right in front of DKNY, the guy just held his neck like this and there was like blood just dripping down, you know.

And then we went inside and then I had like two people in front of me were like, go down, go down. So we all went down. And then I heard like three shots -- pop, pop, pop, like right on the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:04:47]

LAVANDERA: So Fredricka, the major headlines this afternoon, the Texas Department of Public Safety now the lead agency in this investigation and city of Allen officials are saying that there will be no press briefings and updates on what transpired here yesterday, Fredricka. WHITFIELD: That is indeed striking, Ed Lavandera. Some 24 hours after

that would take place, just shattering a community of Allen, Texas.

Of course, it would be nice if there were some changes and we do learn more information. We know you'll bring it to us as we learn. But for now, no scheduled press conference from law enforcement there.

All right. Today, President Biden ordered flags to be lowered to half staff for what he called the senseless acts of violence that was seen in Allen, Texas.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott says he will be traveling to the scene today to help the shattered and heartbroken community. And earlier today he had this to say in response to the shooting and growing violence that we are seeing sweeping across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): There are questions that are lingering that the families want answers to, and that is, why did this happen? Why did the gunman do this? How did this happen? And I know that those families need an answer as quickly as possible.

It truly seems today that America is more divided than we've been in decades. And we got to find a way in this country where we can once again reunite Americans as Americans and come together as one big family. In that regard, find ways to reduce violence in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining us right now is someone who lived through this horrific event, Steven Spainhouer. So good to see you, Steven, sadly under such circumstances, but what a story and experience you have to tell.

First of all, how are you doing given that you are a direct eyewitness to what transpired?

STEVEN SPAINHOUER, WITNESS TO OUTLET MALL SHOOTING: I'm doing well, and my son who worked at H&M, has been offered guidance counseling and I am going to be receiving the same thing. We had a lot to process last night. And yesterday was pretty horrific. I wouldn't wish anybody to see or experience what any of us saw yesterday.

WHITFIELD: So that your son was working in H&M there at the outlet mall. Before I ask you all that you witness, what did he experience when he heard, when you learned that there was a shooting? Where was he and what was his experience?

SPAINHOUER: He called me from the break room at H&M. We were supposed to go to lunch. He said dad, forget lunch, we got a shooting. I said are you ok? He said I'm pulling people into the break room. We're going to lock the door.

H&M has given him excellent active shooter training and stuff. As a former police officer and army officer I talked to him about that. I said you stay in the room and keep the door locked. Until someone slides a badge under that door you don't get out of that room, you don't talk to anybody.

And so I told him -- he said I can't get ahold of 911. Well, when you have 500 people at a mall calling 911, those operators are inundated. It's going to take a while to get through those calls to get help where it needed to be.

He was a hero because he got his coworkers in a safe place and the store management and even they took in one of the shooting victims and cared for her until they could get law enforcement in the store.

I went to make sure he's ok. I'm about six minutes from the mall. When I showed up, everybody was running down the service road. I told my wife, I said you stay in the car because I don't know where the shooter is and I want to make sure we're safe.

I parked about 50 feet from the front door of H&M and it was a guy on the phone, he begging for help, and he didn't speak a lot of English.

I took the phone from him and told the operator, I started counting the bodies on the ground I have one, two, three, five, six, seven bodies. I said (AUDIO GAP) mass casualties.

It would be another six minutes before the first Allen police officer showed up. I -- the first girl I went to, and this is pretty graphic, but she was in the bushes in a fetal position like she was praying and I didn't feel a pulse. I pulled her head back to see if she was ok and there was nothing left of her face or head. It was gone.

I went to a second victim and she was not breathing. Here eyes were fixed and dilated. Somebody, a nurse stopped by and said you need to glove up, give me some gloves and then disappeared. I guess different people respond different ways.

It was a citizens on patrol guy from Allen police but didn't know what to do. The first responders applied a couple of tourniquets and then disappeared to get more first aid supplies.

[14:09:48]

SPAINHOUER: I went to the third person who was alone, I knew he was alive, I felt for a pulse. There was no pulse. So I did the first chest compression. He spit up blood and then his eyes went fixed and dilated and I knew I lost him.

I then saw a little boy about 4 or 5. I'm assuming it's a boy, it might have been a girl. I think he's over 6. Fall out from under one of the victims. I went around the planter and grabbed him and took him away from all the bodies.

I asked him do you speak English because he lives in (INAUDIBLE). He said he did. He just kept saying my mother is hurt over and over and over.

I told him everything is fine. Help was on the way. I checked him for no wounds but he was caked with blood head to toe. I just held on to him until the first Allen police officer showed up and the officer said is he ok. I said take him to the hospital. I don't know.

So we loaded him in the police car. We had a second (AUDIO GAP) ambulances came and the medics were shocked but they acted professionally.

We were going to try and triage on the site but they said no, these horrific injuries they're gunshot wounds, we can't triage. Just load them in the ambulance and go.

We finally got about 10 Allen police officers there. I asked about securing the crime scene because there were bullet casings all over the place and because of my military training I knew it was a high capacity weapon.

There was one live round next to a dead body. It was a .225 red tip. I knew that we had (INAUDIBLE). There was a banana clip about ten feet from there, 30 round banana clip. So I knew we had a high capacity round type of shooter.

We managed to clear one store, at the second store, I called my son and said the police are coming in. We found two victims in H&M. Police officers ran across the parking lot and got another ambulance.

There was another shooting on the other side I'm finding out now, the shooter had been engaged. We got those two victims out and to the hospital. I stayed until we got (AUDIO GAP) I knew which stores are cleared.

The Allen police are heroes, the paramedics are (AUDIO GAP). Those are the heroes. They did their job and they did it well.

WHITFIELD: Steven -- the signal is very poor right now and I know you have just said, you know, with clarity that the Allen police are heroes, but so are you. I mean, your composure is extraordinary and as a former police officer and former military as you just said, you knew what to do and tending to the wounded as best you could at the time and also making the gruesome discoveries that some did not make it.

And your ability to just reflect and tell the story again. But I can see it's still very emotional for you.

So how are you doing at this point? Reflecting on all that you experienced? And what are your worries and concerns about the community?

SPAINHOUER: The victims, the people shot and killed and their family members, the victims are the community itself. There were victims that were holed up in stores fearful for their life. I saw moms and dads covering the eyes of their kids, rolling in tears, kids holding their hands up, people running for their lives. Those are victims as much as someone. (AUDIO GAP)

I am fine. I know how to process PTSD. I talked to combat vets that are friends and police officers that I know well and partially. I will get help. My son is getting help. But the biggest help is the help we can give to our nation.

I love guns, I love the Second Amendment, I own guns, I teach people how to shoot guns. But we don't need these high capacity weapons on our streets. You want to have a shotgun, you want to have a pistol, that's fine with me. But we have got to change the narrative.

I'm telling you, I'm going to say something to our Texas governor. All the prayers and thoughts and well wishes in the world are great, in a time of tragedy. But if you don't change our gun laws, put red flag laws in place and take these high capacity weapons off the street it's going to happen again.

I don't care if it's in Uvalde, Allen, Texas, El Paso, Texas. I don't care if it's in Chicago, Atlanta or any other place. If we don't do something other than give prayers and best wishes when a tragedy happens it will happen again. It could happen to you. It could happen to any listener out there at any time.

WHITFIELD: Then, what is your response --

SPAINHOUER: (AUDIO GAP)

WHITFIELD: No, we really appreciate, you know, your thoughts and the clarity with your thoughts.

But then your reaction to the Texas governor whose sound bite we just played a moment ago, who said, you know, America is divided and America has got to find a way to reunite.

[14:14:54]

WHITFIELD: That was one of the responses as to what transpired from this massacre. Is that well placed in your view? Is this about a division in America?

SPAINHOUER: No. We're always going to have divides. They are going to be exasperated on both sides of the aisle by people who have agendas.

We should be able to find a consensus somewhere along the line to do the right thing to change our gun laws so that we can have safe communities.

(AUDIO GAP) instead like what governor has said, there's no -- there's got to be -- prayers are (AUDIO GAP)

WHITFIELD: I think Steven, your points are well made. We're -- the signal is just so awful right now but we're going to have to leave it there for now. Thank you so much if you're able to hear me.

Steven Spainhouer who's both a witness and really acted as a first responder as well. He's formerly a police officer, formerly with the U.S. Military but saw a lot and experienced a lot yesterday and was gracious enough to share his point of view. Thank you so much, Steven if you can hear us.

SPAINHOUER: Thank you guys for telling the story. WHITFIELD: Thank you.

SPAINHOUER: Yes, I can. Thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: And then it's not over for Texas. Yet another what appears to be a real tragedy, this breaking news out of Brownsville, Texas where seven other people are dead after a car crash near a shelter.

Let's go to CNN's Rosa Flores who is joining me live with more details on this. Rosa, give us what you know.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Fred, this is a real tragedy. According to the Brownsville Police Department, they got a call at about 8:30 Central Time this morning and the call was about a crash that happened in front of a shelter.

According to police, seven individuals are dead and four to six others were transported to the hospital. Now I've been to this shelter before. Normally it just services the community in Brownsville but during migrant surges this shelter does take in migrants.

According to police they've interviewed witnesses and they do believe that migrants are among the dead. It's unclear if they're all migrants or not but police say that they are investigating and they are working with border patrol to figure out if these individuals are indeed migrants as they've been processed through immigration authorities and that is going to help them find that out a little faster.

Now, according to police, they say that this is a one-vehicle crash and that the driver of that vehicle has been arrested and is being held on reckless driving charges and that those charges could be upgraded.

Now police are not releasing the name of this individual or the identity of this individual other than saying that this is a Hispanic male and that they are conducting toxicology reports at this time. Again, this is a real tragedy in a border town in south Texas.

Now, I'm in another border town in El Paso. El Paso has been the epicenter of the migrant crisis because of the number of migrants who have been on the street.

According to the city, last count it was several thousand. You can see behind me that there's a lot of migrants here. Cities have been very concerned about public safety.

I want to walk around a little bit because these barricades just went up overnight and you can see that this road is closed. I've been here for about a week and you can see that this is closed right next to the shelter.

But migrants are all around here. According to a press release that was issued by the city overnight the city of El Paso they decided to close this street because of public safety reasons and that press release specifically says that they're asking motorists to be very careful because of the number of migrants who have been on the street. Now Fred, the city of El Paso did this before the tragedy in

Brownsville but again, city officials across the U.S. southern border are very concerned because with scenes like this where there are hundreds of migrants, if not thousands of migrants on city streets, city officials are very concerned about public safety, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes. The concerns are very real and, you know, the influx, the crowd of people and pedestrians makes it very difficult and perilous for many.

Rosa Flores thank you so much.

All right. We'll be right back.

[14:19:38]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The COVID era Title 42 immigration policy allowing for the quick expulsions of migrants is set to expire in four days and U.S. cities along the southern border are bracing for a possible mass influx of migrants.

The Biden administration is sending 1,500 active duty troops to the border to help prepare for the possible crisis. And today, Biden's Homeland Security secretary defended the administration's preparedness but urged patience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's going to take our plan a while to really take hold for people to understand that they can access lawful, safe, orderly pathways before they reach the border.

And quite frankly, if they come to the border they will receive a consequence under our enforcement authorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: New York City is also preparing for an increase of migrants when the policy is lifted. Mayor Eric Adams has announced the city will ship willing migrants to other neighboring communities in New York state ahead of the expected increase. And more than 50,000 asylum seekers have arrived in the city since last spring.

Some of them have been bussed to New York by Republican governors and local officials from southern states.

[14:24:58]

WHITFIELD: CNN's Gloria Pazmino is joining us right now. Gloria, so how is this program supposed to work and what are the neighboring communities saying about this plan, this new plan?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Fred, they're certainly not happy. In fact, last night the Rockland County executive issued a statement reacting to Mayor Eric Adams plan saying that it is flawed and his county does not have the infrastructure to welcome these people.

Now the city of New York has countered that saying that this is a voluntary program and that they're only trying to send up to 300 people and that the city is going to cover the entire cost of that program.

Now that just gives you an idea of the difficulty that the city of New York is facing. Tens of thousands of migrants have arrived here in the last year, a little over 37,000 are still in the city's care, and city administration officials tell me that they are running out of room.

Now we reported exclusively on an internal memo by the Adams administration where they are outlining all of the possible ideas they're looking at in order to respond to this expected surge of migrants in the coming days.

And they're looking for ways to house people. So they're looking at everything to putting up tents in Central Park and possibly the city beaches, leasing college dorms, building container homes and even using unused retrofitted airplane hangars at John F. Kennedy Airport just as a way to house people because little by little the city has been running out of shelter.

Now, New York City is unique, unlike other places they are legally obligated to provide shelter to people who need it. And Mayor Eric Adams has been pleading with federal authorities for more funding in order to be able to meet this need but that hasn't happened.

And while none of these plans are yet final, you're seeing there a video of one of the tents that was put up in Randall's Island several months ago to respond to the surge of migrants that were arriving.

Plans like this are not yet final. They cost a lot of money and the mayor has said that Biden administration has not yet responded. So there's a real need here. The city expecting to see up to 800 migrants arriving in the city every day after Title 42 expires. And already some of those arrivals have been increasing, Fred.

WHITFIELD:L All right. Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much for that.

President Biden is calling for new action on guns. What he wants to see done in Congress as yet again, White House flags are at half staff following this time a mass shooting in Texas.

[14:27:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Back now to our top story, a gunman goes on a deadly shooting spree in Allen, Texas, taking eight lives and leaving seven others injured. Americans are now grappling with another horrific mass shooting.

President Biden has ordered flags to be flown at half staff.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is at the White House for us.

So, Jeremy, what else is the president saying in the wake of yet another tragedy?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, Fredricka, today, the flag above the White House is once again flying at half staff after yet another deadly mass shooting in this country and once again, you have a president of the United States offering his sympathies to the families of the victims in this tragedy and also offering his gratitude to the first responders who he says worked quickly and courageously to save lives.

What we are also hearing from this president is a call to action once again, and calling out who he believes is to blame for the inaction in Washington.

President Biden saying in statement, quote: Too many families have empty chairs at their dinner tables, Republican members of Congress cannot continue to meet this epidemic with a shrug. Tweeted thoughts and prayers are not enough. Once again, I ask Congress to send me a bill to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines, enacting universal background checks, requiring safe storage, ending immunity for gun manufacturers. I will sign it immediately. We need nothing less to keep our streets safe.

And this is the familiar words that we are hearing from President Biden that we have heard from him after previous mass shootings. He is very quick to call for legislative solution to this issue and at the same time, what we have also heard more recently from President Biden is that he believes that he has reached the extent of what he can do unilaterally via executive action.

This president has taken a series of executive actions to try to address this issue of gun violence. He also, of course, signed that bipartisan bill that sought to expand red flag laws. And yet, the president making clear that despite that, while he does believe there has been some progress, clearly these actions have fallen short.

Once again, renewing the call on Congress, those words are likely to fall on deaf ears in a Republican controlled House which has made clear that they do not see more restrictive gun measures as the solution here. So once again, we find ourselves, Fred, in this familiar pattern of this president calling for action, nothing actually getting done, it seems, and waiting, waiting in this country, for what could be the next mass shooting.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, sadly, it has become a pattern.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

[14:35:01]

All right. Coming up, the leader of Russia's mercenary group Wagner says his forces may stay in the Bakhmut area after promised more munitions after threatening to withdraw. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In Ukraine, the Russian mercenary group fighting in Bakhmut might not be leaving the battle after all.

Last week, the head of the group said his fighters were dying because ammunition supplies from Moscow were drying up and he would be pulling his remaining forces from what has been one of the bloodiest battles in the war.

CNN's Sam Kiley has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the ongoing macabre soap opera that is the Russian saga in the battle for Bakhmut, the latest part of this drama is Prigozhin, the leader of the Wagner private military company, as he likes to call himself, the mercenary organization, has gone back on his threat to withdraw his troops from the city on May 10th and hand over to Chechens under the command of Kadyrov.

[14:40:11]

And that is because he is saying he has now been promised the ammunition that up until now he was claiming that Russian ministry of defense had been denying him. Now, all of this is part of a mysterious spat he has with the ministry of defense inside Russia. He's frequently complaining and very publicly critical of the leadership of the Russian generals. He's recently recruited former Russian generals.

But I think that really, this is something of a distraction because as far as the Ukrainians are concerned, they'd be delighted if the Wagner group had left them, had to be replaced, because it would have left a period of vulnerability in that bloody fight for a town that the Ukrainians say they're happy to kill Russians in, but as far as they're concerned, doesn't really have any strategic interest or advantage.

Unlike their preparations for what they say is a planned summer offensive, all eyes are on the Ukrainians to see where and how this offensive may begin. There's a lot of speculation it might get under way in the south, perhaps with the attempt at liberating the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant there. There have been reports from the Russian held area of Ukraine of mass evacuations, of looted goods, of civilians and indeed of some military elements, particularly from the city of Melitopol, appearing on social media and being claimed by elements within the Ukrainian administration.

Now, that would be a sign that Russians are expecting something.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Sam Kiley, thank you so much. Let's bring in now Bill Browder. He is the CEO of Hermitage Capital

Management and he's also the author of two books, "Red Notice" and more recently, "Freezing Order". They're based on his experiences in Russia and becoming a target of Vladimir Putin himself.

Bill, good to see you.

So, what do you think is happening here between Vladimir Putin and the head of this mercenary group?

BILL BROWDER, CEO, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Well, I don't think anything is happening between Putin and the head of the mercenary group. Putin has always managed the people under him with these types of conflicts, always going at it with each other.

So, the mercenary group is fighting with the minister of defense and various other officials there, but Putin is sort of the puppet master who kind of has them weaken each other, strengthen each other, and all sorts of other things.

The most important thing you need to understand is that whoever is -- I mean, we shouldn't believe a word these people are saying, but the one thing we can say for sure is that there is a problem inside of the Russian's effective military offensive and it's not working out. They're losing thousands, tens of thousands of soldiers, and this is before the Ukrainians have gotten to work with their counter offensive.

WHITIFLED: When you said you shouldn't believe a word, that was my next question, which is, you know, should we believe the head of the Wagner Group that it was so desperate that they were willing to pull out, might that be a PR stunt, just a performance, and Vladimir Putin possibly on board with it?

BROWDER: I mean, who knows? I mean, these people play so many, you know, games and counter games and tricks and so on and so forth, that, you know, it's really almost not worth analyzing what they're saying.

I know for sure that Prigozhin has lied on many occasions and so, there's no reason to believe that he's not lying now. This is war. For them to telegraph their intentions is less likely. But the most important thing we need to understand is that there's some type of problem.

If they're fighting with each other in the open, there's some type of problem inside the Russian military which is obvious from their fighting and also obvious from a number of dead bodies that are turning up on the Russian side and the number of tanks that are being destroyed and so on and so forth.

WHITFIELD: And then there's the issue of that drone attack on the Kremlin last week. I mean, the Kremlin says the U.S., Ukraine masterminded that and then there's also, you know, a feeling that it could be some, you know, anti-Kremlin, anti-Putin group that might be behind it.

And this is what the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee said about the incident on CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I believe it's an attempt to distract everyone in Russia from the fact that Vladimir Putin is losing horribly in Ukraine, and he needs to withdraw. He needs to allow Ukraine to restore their territorial borders and the integrity of their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. So, again, a possible stunt, a diversion?

BROWDER: Well, yes, definitely. I mean, so look at this, the Kremlin is the most well-defended place in the whole planet.

[14:45:03]

For the idea that two drones could somehow just get in there and explode over the Kremlin is laughable. This is clearly some type of orchestrated stunt in order to create a narrative -- in my opinion, the narrative is more about escalating the war and giving the Russian people something to rally around.

I mean, the idea is that the Ukrainians with the Americans backing have tried to kill Putin. We won't let them. But that justifies us escalating further and perhaps even drafting more people, drafting more conscripts, which is one of the things the Russians need to do desperately.

And so, I don't believe for a second this was done by the Ukrainians or by Russian partisans or the Americans. This was done by Putin as a way of creating a domestic narrative.

WHITFIELD: All right. Bill Browder, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much.

BROWDER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. This week, President Biden and House Speaker McCarthy meet face to face, as their standoff over the U.S. debt shows no sign of resolving. What both sides of the aisle are saying about chances for a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: We've been waiting for months for the Republicans to articulate their position. They didn't produce a budget. What they did was produce a ransom note.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:53] WHITFIELD: In just two days, President Biden will meet at the White House with the four top congressional leaders as the clock ticks towards a potential default, which could come as soon as June 1st. That's when the treasury will run out of money to pay its bills, unless Congress raises the debt ceiling, and it's done dozens of times -- been done dozens of times before.

Today, Senator Kyrsten Sinema urged both sides to find common ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (I-AZ): The reality is the bill that Kevin and his colleagues passed with the House is not going to be the solution. The votes do not exist in the United States Senate to pass that.

But what the president is offering is not a realistic solution either. There's not going to be just a simple, clean debt limit. The votes don't exist for that.

So, the sooner these two guys get in the room and listen to what the other one needs, the more likely they are to solve this challenge and protect the full faith and credit of the United States of America. We're on really shaky ground right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Alayna Treene are joining us right now from Washington.

Alayna, so where do things stand heading into this pivotal -- potentially pivotal White House meeting?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred, it's a hugely consequential week for both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue? And I will say, Senator Sinema made a valid point there. I mean, both sides are dug in on their position. Democrats want a clean debt ceiling deal with no strings attached and Republicans are arguing that they need spending cuts and concessions to be able to reach a deal.

But really, given the balance of power in Congress, neither side is going to get exactly what they want. I do think increasingly, Republicans and Democrats alike are beginning to recognize that a compromise is needed in order for the United States to avoid defaulting on its debt.

And that's really why this Tuesday meeting is so important. I mean, there's a lot at stake here. The last time that President Biden and Speaker McCarthy met was on February 1st. They're really no closer to a deal no than they were then.

But the lawmakers that I speak to see this first meeting as just that. It's an initial meeting for these leaders to get together in one room and begin laying the groundwork for a potential deal. And this is really expected to be the first of many meetings that these leaders will have on the issue. And the bigger picture here, Fred, is that they're running out of

time. I mean, the Treasury Department has said they're just weeks away from running out of money to pay the government's debts.

We heard from Janet Yellen this morning where she rang the alarm bell on just how dire of a situation this is. Let's listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: Our current projection is that in early June, a day will come when we're unable to pay our bills unless Congress raises the debt ceiling. President Biden has invited the leadership of Congress to the White House on Tuesday. I know he wants to set up a process in which spending priorities and levels are discussed and negotiated.

But these negotiations should not take place with a gun really to the head of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Well, Fred, I mean, you can hear there that Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is essentially pleading with Congress to find a solution here. And I will argue that neither side, I mean, lawmakers in both parties that I've spoken to say that they do not want a default. I mean, no one wants to go back to the place this place that they were in 2011 when the U.S. came very close to defaulting on its death, and we saw the markets were extremely rattled as a result -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yeah. We don't need to see that again.

All right. We'll see what happens. Alayna Treene, thanks so much.

All right. It sounds pretty simple. Tired? Just take a nap. But it's not. A sleep medicine doctor takes a clear-eyed look at napping in today's "Staying Well."

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DR. NEOMI A. SHAH, MOUNT SINAI HEALTH SYSTEM: A nap is essentially a sleep segment that occurs outside of your habitual sleep hours.

The benefits of napping primarily are in the short acute settings.

[14:55:02]

If you're awake and you're sleepy, it's going to help you reduce that sleepiness.

The other benefit is it just may make you more alert and allow you to function during the day. Best practice is to keep to less than 30 minutes.

You want a cool, quiet, dark place to try to take a nap. MICHELE PALADINO, GUEST, NAP YORK: So I've been coming to Nap York I

would say around 11 months ago. When I want to take a nap, I come here. I'm from Sicily, in Italy. And napping there is considered a national treasure.

After lunch, everyone takes a nap and have a break. After my nap, I feel like I'm more ready to work and I have more energy.

SHAH: Concerns around napping should really occur when you have a need for a daily long nap. It could be that you're not sleeping enough at night. There are conditions like sleep apnea, narcolepsy, conditions like idiopathic hypersomnia. The other big one that I think our country faces is just insufficient sleep.

Before you change your routine and your sleep habits, reach out to your health professions, either sleep or your primary care p physician.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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