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Police Identifies Gunman In Texas Mall Shooting; Witnesses Describe Chaotic, Horrifying Scene Of Texas Shooting; At Least Seven Dead After Car Hits Migrants Outside Texas Shelter; Controversial Pandemic-Era Migrant Policy Expires Thursday; NYC Mayor To Send Willing Migrants To Other New York Locations Before Surge; Interview With Rep. Nikema Williams (D-GA). Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 07, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:31]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We are following two major stories unfolding at this hour. In Texas, a killer revealed. We're learning new details about the gunman in the deadly shooting at a Texas outlet mall. Eight people were killed, seven others wounded. Plus, at least seven people are dead after a car hit a group of people outside a homeless shelter in Brownsville, Texas. That facility also sheltering migrants who just reached the United States.

But we begin this hour in Allen, Texas. First, a warning that some of the things you're about to see are disturbing. CNN obtained this photo that appears to show the dead shooter heavily armed and dressed in tactical gear. A senior law enforcement source familiar with the investigation tells CNN that the suspect, the gunman, is 33-year-old Mauricio Garcia. A dash cam video captures the moment the killer hops out of his car.

We are pausing it before you see him gun down men, women, and children on this busy sidewalk at that outlet mall. Take a look.

This is the sound of terror and explosion of gunshots and people frantically running for cover. A police officer already at the mall on an unrelated call kills the gunman.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is at the scene of this senseless attack.

Ed, what more can you tell us about the gunman. We have some new information, I understand, coming in to CNN this afternoon and this evening. What can you tell us?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do have new details in speaking with witnesses that were at the scene here yesterday, Jim. And this is the area behind me, still cordoned off by investigators. But the area where the shooting started to where it ended is several hundred yards and really happened on opposite sides of the building. We spoke with a witness a short while ago who was on the northwest

corner or the northeast corner, excuse me, of the building and witnessed the gunman pass him by. And the officer also pursuing him in that parking lot where the shooting started and where it ended, separated by several hundred yards, basically on the opposite side of the building.

Listen to what that witness told us a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MCLEAN, SHOOTING WITNESS: We basically turned and watched, and as we were watching, the shooter goes right across -- he's not running, but he's kind of in a deliberate assault-type move. And he either have an M-16 or an M-4 carbine, and he was firing. He fired about four or five shots as he proceeded toward the hamburger place. So I don't know who he shot. And a few moments later, we saw a police officer came across in front of us like he was in pursuit of the individual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: That witness was telling us that as that gunman was passing by there he was hoping that he wouldn't look to his left and see people inside the store that he was at.

We have learned from a senior law enforcement source well today, Jim, that the suspect in this case is 33-year-old Mauricio Garcia. He lives in Dallas. We were in a neighborhood with an address that matches Garcia's parents, and speaking with several neighbors there earlier today, Jim, they described someone as a loner but also someone who is often polite. And many people simply stunned by the details that are emerging about this gunman here today -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And Ed, what are we learning about the shooter's possible motivation and some ties to extremism?

LAVANDERA: Well, a senior law enforcement source tells CNN's Josh Campbell that they have discovered and uncovered evidence of possible connections to right-wing extremism. And that on his body, and we've shown that image of the gunman believed to be down on the ground here at the outlet mall had an insignia with the initials RWDS, which stands for right-wing death squad.

That source also goes on to detail that other information, social media posts, and those kinds of things have also been discovered. But connecting that with what exactly has happened here, you know, still very difficult to do at this point, Allen is here in a northern suburb of Dallas, you know, a very conservative kind of area of Texas. So how all of this mixes together, we just don't know at this point.

ACOSTA: And of course, Ed, law enforcement officials did not hold a news conference today, so we'll have to wait to -- at least tomorrow to get any new information from officials on what happened in Allen.

All right. Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

People appeared to take shelter in a hallway while this shooting was going on, including Geoffrey Keaton who sent us this video.

[18:05:04]

That's him standing there, standing with dozens of other people, many of them with their hands up, horrified but seemingly not surprised, more frustrated by yet another mass shooting in America. And he had this to stay. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFFREY KEATON, WITNESSED TEXAS MALL SHOOTING: It's crazy, some folks aren't going to go home today because someone didn't value their life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: At some point after that, Jeffrey was safely outside watching from afar. And Geoffrey joins us now from Dallas.

Geoffrey, thank you very much for being with us and we're so glad that you're safe. I guess tell us about what you were doing yesterday. Were you guys hiding out in what was like a service corridor or a hallway at the outlet mall while all of this was going on?

KEATON: Yes. Initially we were. My daughter and I were eating inside of the Fatburger, where we started to hear commotion outside and started seeing the people run. And then we started to hear the gunshots. And then you could tell that it was getting closer because the shots were getting louder. And at that time, the manager of the Fatburger escorted everybody from the restaurant into the corridor area.

And the doors were sealed in that area. So you couldn't go into any of the building, but the front door of what would be next to it a sunglasses place, we all shot out of there and tried to get out to go to our cars, where we saw the gunman down and the Allen Police Department taking control of the situation. We all laid down, put our hands in the air. And you could just see a lot of -- a lot of people down on the sidewalk coming towards us.

At that time, the police officers asked us to go back into the corridor area, and that's where we stayed until it was cleared and they allowed us to leave and exit the building through the Starbucks.

ACOSTA: And Geoffrey, so, help me out here. I think I'm gathering from what you're saying is that you were in that corridor and then some of you went outside and you saw the dead bodies on the sidewalk, on the street, and then had to go back in and wait until things were clear, things were safe? Is that essentially what I'm hearing from you?

KEATON: Yes, sir. That's what happened.

ACOSTA: And what was that scene like when you saw those bodies?

KEATON: It was -- you know, it was heartbreaking. My heart breaks for the people that won't go home this evening or yesterday, or that were hit and being tended to on the sidewalk. And just to the frantic people and children that (INAUDIBLE) that I was able to, you know, try to gather together, and get into hallway when officers allowed us to move.

It was traumatic. It was fast. It was definitely -- ain't about anything that you'd expect or be prepared for, because who prepares for a thing like that? You don't expect to, you know, go to the mall and lose your life for senselessness.

ACOSTA: And you said in that video, this is the madness. This is the madness.

KEATON: This is -- exactly. And it's far too frequent now. It's -- beliefs are beliefs, but at the same time, you have to -- there still should be some part of us all, as humans, that feel that human life is worth it all. I mean, just respecting your neighbor, love the people the way that you want to be loved, treating people the way that you want to be treated. To me, that's what we're starting to lack of.

[18:10:07]

ACOSTA: You're right about that, Geoffrey. Well, we're so glad that you and your daughter are safe, and very sorry for what you had to go through. But thank you very much for your time, Geoffrey Keaton in Dallas. Thank you for being with us this evening.

And this just in, we are learning of another public shooting, a fatal shooting. This one in the early morning hours at a night club in Miami Beach. One person is dead, two others are injured. Miami Beach Police are investigating but have not yet released any information on a suspect or suspects at this hour. And a post on Instagram today the club called the shooting isolated and targeted.

And of course, as we get more information about that just coming in, we'll get that to you just as soon as we can.

Now to our other top story at this hour, at least seven people are dead in Brownsville, Texas, after a car plowed into a group of migrants. We want to play you the moments leading up to the incident. We should warn you this video is also very disturbing to watch.

We've frozen that video right there before it reaches the most graphic moment of this incident. It comes from Congressman Henry Cuellar's office, and I'll be speaking with him later on this evening. But first let's go to CNN's Rosa Flores, who is in El Paso for us but she has some information on what took place in Brownsville.

Rosa, what can you tell us? Just a horrific, horrific thing that happened there. This car just came flying through and plowed into these people. What more can you tell us?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really tragic. Since we last talked, Jim, the FBI has announced that they're assisting the Brownsville Police Department. The Brownsville Police Department says that the driver is still uncooperative. And the city of El Paso issued a statement in response to what happened there saying that it all reinforces their decision to put these barricades that you see right here in front of me because of the situation here in the streets of El Paso, where the last now came from the city of El Paso, there were more than 2,000 people on the street.

But back to Brownsville. Here is what we know. According to the director of that center, he says that this occurred right across the street from his shelter. He says that about 20 to 25 migrants were sitting on the curb earlier this morning at about 8:30 Central Time. And he says that the moment of this incident was captured in his surveillance video.

And from watching that video, this director says that what that video reveals is that at about 8:30 this morning, there was a Range Rover, a 2007 Range Rover, that was driving at a very high rate of speed and then ran a red light and hit a curb about 30 feet from where these migrants were on the curb. And at that point in time, he says that this vehicle completely lost control.

Now this director says that from him talking to some of the witnesses that the witnesses say that this appeared to be intentional. So, I asked the director, that based on his witnessing of this video if it indeed looked like this was an intentional act, and he said no. He reiterated that what this video shows is a vehicle going at a very high rate of speed, running a red light, hitting a curb, and then going out of control.

Now, back to the driver of this 2007 Range Rover, Jim, what we know from police is that he's not cooperating. They're having to fingerprint him to get his identifying details. But police have taken blood. They're doing toxicology tests -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Rosa Flores, just an awful situation. Thanks for the update on that. We appreciate it.

With the COVID era immigration policy set to expire next week, in the coming days, we're live in Mexico as migrants camp out near the southern border.

Plus tents in Central Park, unused airplane hangars, what we know about New York City's possible plans to deal with the expected influx of migrants needing shelter. We'll talk about it coming up.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:18:20]

ACOSTA: Barring any last-minute change, Title 42 is expected to expire on Thursday. It's a policy former President Donald Trump instituted at the start of the coronavirus pandemic, which allows border agents to deny migrants entry to the U.S. from Mexico for public health reason. President Biden vowed to lift it during his presidential campaign but has since kept it in place and even expanded it.

We have CNN reporters covering all of this, the impact at the border and in U.S. cities. Let's first go to CNN's Gustavo Valdes in Juarez, New Mexico across the border from El Paso.

Gustavo, we saw you there in the last hour talking to one of the migrants getting ready for this policy to change. What are you seeing now?

GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we moved about 15 miles from where we were earlier. That was an old point of crossing for the migrants. That was an easy crossing into the U.S. to turn themselves to the Border Patrol. Now they are now at what is now known as Gate 42 along the Juares-El Paso border. Ironically it's Title 42 that is coming to an end.

And what we're seeing right now are some people who are seeing an opportunity to sell food to the people waiting on the other side of the barb wire. The barb wire we're told was installed by Texas government as an attempt to make it more difficult for these people to cross because once they are on that side, they are already into the United States. So the Border Patrol we've seen in other places sometimes just come pick them up, and they process in the U.S. side for whatever next step is for these migrants.

[18:20:03]

But you can see here, there are no officials, there are no agents either state, local, or Border Patrol, waiting. There are two (INAUDIBLE). Some people have been shouting at us, asking for water. They said they've been here for five days with very limited resources. And within the last few minutes, far in the distance, you can see that group of people. We are told they're asking for medical assistance.

They say there are three women who have collapsed because of the weather or some other reason. They are hoping to find a hole in the barb wire to cross back into Mexico and see if somebody responds on this side because from the U.S. side, there is nobody right now. The closest National Guard vehicle we saw was about a mile away. But right now nobody seems to be responding.

We don't know what kind of communication they have. But we keep seeing people coming in from both sides, from the downtown area, Juarez, from other parts in the border trying to get a front row seat, if you will, to try to be the first in line once Title 42 ends.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly, Gustavo, the people that you're seeing, the number of people, more than what you typically see?

VALDES: So, if you recall back in December when Title 42 was about to expire, it seemed like there were more back then. But what we are seeing now is that they are patiently -- or just because they need to wait in the Mexican side, and they are either on the camps we've seen earlier, in shelters, or in homes waiting to cross. So it's not as large number as we've seen in the past. But that doesn't mean that they're not 1,000 of them waiting to cross.

ACOSTA: All right, Gustavo, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And CNN's Gloria Pazmino joins us now from New York City, where the city is bracing for an influx of people once Title 42 is lifted. And Mayor Eric Adams is announcing a plan that would transport migrants to nearby counties.

Gloria, what more do we know about this? We know this has been an issue there in New York.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, it really just gives you an idea of the crisis that the city of New York is anticipating in a few days ahead of the expiration of Title 42, which expires next week. In fact, the administration officials I've been talking to in the past few days tell me that even though Title 42 hasn't expired yet, they're already seeing an increase in the arrivals here in New York City.

And the problem that the administration here is facing is that they are running out of room. New York City is unique in some ways in terms that it's legally required to provide shelter to anyone who needs it. So, as the city tries to tackle this crisis, they are coming up with all sorts of ideas, some of them, you're seeing them there on the screen. They include putting up tents in Central Park and some of the city beaches, leasing out college dorms, even using unused airplane hangars at JFKennedy Airport.

All of this was outlined in an internal memo that I obtained earlier this week where you can see the Adams administration is dealing with this as an all-hands-on-deck moment. They are running out of shelter space and they're trying to come up with other ways to shelter people. They're estimating the city of New York could see up to 800 migrant arrivals per day. Already last week, 500 arrived on just a single day.

So the city of New York hurting for shelter, for money, and waiting for the federal government to step in in terms of providing that funding so that all these migrants who have so many needs and need to be connected to resources can be connected to what they need as they begin to arrive here after being bussed from the southern border -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much.

President Biden is calling for new action on guns, but will Congress get anything done, as yet again White House flags are at half-staff following the mass shooting in Texas. We'll ask a member of Congress about all this next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:44]

ACOSTA: According to the Gun Violence Archive, there have been 14 mass shootings this month in the U.S., and we're only seven days in. It's difficult to keep them all straight. But one of those shootings happened Wednesday in the medical waiting room in the heart of Atlanta. A U.S. Coast Guard vet is under arrest, suspected of opening fire, killing one, wounding four others. Let's bring in Representative Nikema Williams. Her congressional

district includes Atlanta.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us. You know, I thought perhaps we might just talk to you about the Atlanta mass shooting, but there's another mass shooting in Texas to talk about. But your reaction to all of these mass shootings that we've seen in just this past week?

REP. NIKEMA WILLIAMS (D-GA): Jim, I mean, it is -- it's heartbreaking because today is only the 127th day of the year, but we're approaching our 200th mass shooting. Like you said, like we haven't even reconciled everything that happened in Atlanta, why it happened, and here we are looking at the news out of Texas. And I said last night texting one of my friends and like, is that the outlet mall that we went to? And all of these incidents are hitting so close to home.

And when is it going to break through to my Republican colleagues that we have to do something? We are responsible for what is happening in our country as the leaders.

[18:30:01]

And my colleagues from the Democratic side have been standing waiting ready to continue to put people over politics and do something about all of the gun violence in our country. But we have Republicans who are standing in the way.

I have a second grader, Jim, a little second grader in Atlanta public schools, and he was on lockdown all day of the shooting incident in Atlanta because the shooter was still on the run. And my Carter Cakes sat in school, and I'm sitting here watching and wondering when are my colleagues going to understand that we can protect our Second Amendment right and our second graders at the same time.

It doesn't have to be this way. These are policy choices. And so I'm calling on my colleagues to stand with us to save lives in this country.

ACOSTA: Yes. No, I mean, all of our kids have been traumatized by this lockdown culture, that they're locked into right now. There's just no other way around it.

And Congresswoman, let me ask you this. Our latest information from the investigation in Texas indicates that the gunman may have been motivated by right-wing extremism. A source said that the suspect, the gunman was found with an insignia on his clothing that reads RWDS, which authorities believe may stand for right-wing death squad. We're also learning investigators have uncovered an extensive social media presence by the suspect, including Neo-Nazi and white supremacist- related posts that authorities believe he shared online. What's your response to that?

WILLIAMS: I mean, it's the rhetoric in this country by the extreme MAGA Republicans that we see in charge right now. They simply don't care. Words have consequences, and they are building a culture of people who don't care whose lives they take. And you look at states like Georgia and Texas. In Georgia, we have very weak Republican force gun laws, where we literally have guns everywhere.

We have some of the weakest gun laws in the country, and our governor, Brian Kemp, he made it lawful to carry a loaded concealed weapon in public without a permit or background check. We can do something about that in Congress. We need universal background checks. We need to stand up for people's lives in this country.

And Jim, I grew up in rural Alabama. I'm an expert marksman. I know how to shoot a gun. I grew up on a farm. My grandpa taught me how to shoot. But I understand that there are limitations, and we have a responsibility to save lives in this country.

ACOSTA: Well, let me ask you about -- you know, I know the Atlanta shooting hit close to home, and it's interesting about what you said about using firearms yourself. But can you really tackle the mass shooting problem in this country without dealing with the AR-15 and other assault-style rifles that are the weapons of choice of mass shooters? I mean, is there any way to do this that gets gun rights advocates on board? What's it going to take?

WILLIAMS: I mean, I've cosponsored everything from banning assault rifles, which they might not be on board with but will save lives to recruiting safe storage of handguns, so that people who are experiencing mental health crises or children can't get ahold of them. I have a bill right now that I'm ready and willing to pass with my Republican colleagues that would give a tax credit if you have a safe in your home to store your weapon in, so that children and people experiencing crises can't access them. So we have solutions on the board. We just need leaders in this country, the Republican Party to stand with the Democrats in Congress to do something about it, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Congresswoman Nikema Williams, thanks so much for your time tonight. We really appreciate it.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: And still ahead, new polling on the 2024 race, and there is not a lot of good news in this one poll for President Biden, even in a matchup against former President Donald Trump.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:37:55]

ACOSTA: We're starting to learn the names of the victims of yesterday's shooting in Allen, Texas. Christian LaCour was one of the eight people killed at the outlet mall. His older sister tells CNN he was a sweet, caring young man who was loved greatly by our family.

The massacre by eight people at a shopping mall in Allen, Texas, yesterday is the latest in a growing list of mass shootings in Texas and across the country. Just nine days ago, a gunman killed five of his neighbors in the small town of Cleveland there in Houston, and this month, the country will mark the one-year anniversary of the Uvalde massacre that took the lives of 19 elementary school students and two teachers. But this morning, Texas Governor Greg Abbott said guns are not the core of the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS: There has been a dramatic increase in the amount of anger and violence that's taken place in America. People want a quick solution. The long-term solution here is to address the mental health issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Let's talk about this with our political panel, Republican strategist Alice Stewart and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Ladies, thanks so much, again, as always.

Alice, let's talk about what the governor said there. Are guns at least part of the problem?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Without a doubt. There's no question about it that guns are part of the problem, but they are not the entire problem.

Look, I think there is a space at this current time and for quite some time to have a meaningful, commonsense conversation about this, and not just about gun control. But as Governor Abbott said, let's look at the mental health aspect.

I have always been an advocate for red flag laws which would take the guns out of the hands of people that have mental challenges that pose a threat to themselves or others. 19 states have passed those, including the District of Columbia. That is a good place to start, as well as looking at the people that high-risk threat assessments and whether or not those people should have guns. That's where we need to have these conversations.

Look, this is not just about what the shooter has in their hand, but it's what they have in their head and their heart, that also needs to be a big part of the conversation.

ACOSTA: What do you think?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That is nearly not enough. And if anything has shown us, it's history.

[18:40:02]

We are talking about mass shootings almost every single day, Jim. And at what point are Republicans going to understand that guns are a major core part of this problem? Mental health issues, absolutely. And let's do everything to make sure that we help everyone with those kinds of issues. But when you have every single country in the world that has the same type of mental health issues and this country is the only one that has, as a health hazard, the massive amounts of guns that are available so easily to really anyone who wants one.

Fred was on your show earlier. Fred Gutenberg. He said that in the last 20 years, the number of guns has doubled. The number of AK-47s and assault rifles has quintupled. That is not something that a country that has already suffered from massive gun violence, that is not what we need right now. And when Republicans continue to say, this is just about mental health, to me, that tells me that the NRA and the gun lobby still has their foot on their throats. And they are not understanding the problem and they are putting our children and Americans at risk.

ACOSTA: Is it the NRA? Is that part of the issue? You just can't get around the NRA?

STEWART: No, it's not that at all. It's not -- the fact is this is not just about gun control because we have the right to own guns. And as a law-abiding gun owner, I think the conversation needs to be much more broad than that. You want to bring in Republicans and what Republicans are doing to stand against this.

CARDONA: They're not doing anything.

STEWART: The reality is, the majority of gun violence in this country is done in inner cities that are large urban areas in this country led by Democrats. There's not a Republican on the city council in Chicago, in Los Angeles, in New York. That is where we see large numbers of gun violence. And there's no disputing that. That's not a Republican problem. That is a liberal city problem. And that's where a large part of the gun violence is.

CARDONA: I'm so glad you brought that up because it drives me nuts when I hear this on television and there is no pushback. So here's the pushback. If you look at numbers, the major crime numbers, the major places where crime takes place in this country are in red states, not in blue crimes. And in terms of urban crime, yes, there is a lot of gun violence that goes on in urban crimes. Washington, D.C. is one of them, and Washington, D.C. has one of the strictest gun control laws on the book.

But guess what? We are next to Virginia, one of the most lax states that has essentially anybody who can get a gun can go get it in Virginia. So if you have cities that have great gun control laws next to places where you can get essentially a gun -- you know, driving out to a place and asking for it, it doesn't work. That's why you need federal gun control laws that will focus on keeping our kids safe.

ACOSTA: And Alice, what do you make of some of this reporting coming into CNN that the gunman in Allen may have been motivated by right- wing extremism. We've seen that happen before. Remember in Texas, the El Paso Walmart mass shooting.

Can GOP leaders do more? I mean, yes, we can talk about guns, we can talk about mental illness, but what about this rampant, sort of right- wing, Neo-Nazi, white supremacist extremism that is going on on social media? What can Republican leaders do to tamp that down? STEWART: I think it's incumbent upon all leaders on both sides to

encourage to lower the temperature and do away with hate speech on all sides of the spectrum. It's very premature to point a finger at exactly what motivated this person in this recent shooting here, but it's incumbent upon all elected officials to do everything we can to reduce hate speech across the board.

CARDONA: You know, the other point here, Jim, is that the majority of the American people want more gun safety laws. Universal background checks. Would you be OK with that? That's something that the majority of the American people want. Banning assault rifles. Why do we need an assault rifle to make sure that we are going with the Second Amendment, right? The Second Amendment does not say, you have a right to an assault rifle.

So these are the commonsense things that the vast majority of Americans want. And if it wasn't for the gun lobby, we would have those. That's what Republicans need to face.

ACOSTA: Alice, let me sneak in a question about the presidential race. The "Washington Post"-ABC poll has former President Donald Trump leading President Biden in a hypothetical matchup by seven points. Are you surprised by that? Is this an outlier?

STEWART: Well, of course that's what my dear friend Maria will say. But look, these are all snapshots in time when we have a poll like this. But the truth is, the trend is not looking good for President Biden. You look a week ago, the hypothetical generic matchup between him and Donald Trump, Biden was ahead by three. And a hypothetical matchup between him and Ron DeSantis, who is the other GOP challenger, DeSantis was ahead just by a few points.

Now fast forward one week, we're seeing the poll numbers where Biden would lose to not just Donald Trump but Ron DeSantis in a hypothetical matchup. And even more so in that "Washington Post" poll, this must go without saying, another part of that poll shows that people were questioned on whether or not they felt as though President Biden had the mental acuity to run for president and to be president again. Mental acuity to be the president.

[18:45:13]

ACOSTA: Does Donald Trump have the mental acuity?

STEWART: Well, that's -- in terms of Biden, 20 percent of Democrats said he didn't have the mental acuity. 70 percent of independents said he didn't have the mental acuity. Obviously 94 percent of Republicans.

ACOSTA: But, Maria --

STEWART: They're concerned about whether he is mentally fit to be the president.

ACOSTA: Maria, you also have to be a little concerned, though, I mean, when you see a poll number like that. CARDONA: We always have to be concerned. And I've said this many

times, that's how we win, right? And this question about mental acuity and Joe Biden's age is getting kind of old, Jim. I mean, this is something that President Biden has faced for so long. We talked about this last week. Right?

ACOSTA: But he himself has a legitimate issue.

CARDONA: Yes. He has said that, and it will continue to be asked. And the way that they answer it is by delivering. He has a massive record to run on. This poll, I do believe, is an outlier. But regardless it's a year and nine months to the election. And when most likely Joe Biden's opponent will be Donald Trump, who may very well be running his campaign from jail, I think the contrast between Joe Biden, who has delivered massively for the American people, and Donald Trump, criminal, I think that's what this is going to be about.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll see what the next poll says.

All right, Maria, Alice, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Tonight on CNN, we look back at the decade that was the 2010s and the impact it had on television. I speak with the creator of "Breaking Bad," Vince Gilligan, about the role that show played. That's coming up next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 2010s have ushered in a new era called peak TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peak TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The like button was a mark of genius.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It can be frustrating this business of democracy.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I am running for --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- president of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a moment that said we have to tell our stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could drop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I may be the voice of my generation, or at least a voice. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right. No doubt American life changed in the 2010s. Some called it the second golden age of television with shows like "Game of Thrones" and "Breaking Bad" dominating televisions across the country and binge watching became a thing.

I recently had a chance to talk with the creator of "Breaking Bad" Vince Gilligan and he told me how important streaming was to that show's success.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VINCE GILLIGAN, BREAKING BAD CREATOR/EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: You know, AMC was the network that made the bet on us, and our thanks to them. But it's true, "Breaking Bad" didn't really catch fire until it started streaming on Netflix. And we just got lucky. If we had been a couple years' earlier, I wouldn't be interviewed by you right now. No one have ever heard of the darn thing. But it just hit at just the right moment and streaming, binge watching, the idea of consuming episodes of TV like potato chips, one after the other, that really -- that hit just at the right time for us and it helped us turned into what we turned into.

But I give credit to the advent of streaming and to Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul and a wonderful cast. I think people just wanted to watch them. I think they were secret sauce.

ACOSTA: Yes. Bryan Cranston, I mean, he is just a national treasure, and you just have to, you know, sympathize with his character. I mean, that's the secret of that shows is that you just want to root for the guy no matter how much trouble he gets in.

GILLIGAN: Yes. That's true.

ACOSTA: And you talk in the series about one of the main characters in the show was meant to be killed off in the first season. Who was that and why did they end up sticking around?

GILLIGAN: That was the character of Jesse Pinkman played by Aaron Paul. And, you know, when you're in writers' room before we start shooting, if you're lucky enough to have a prolonged amount of time to figure things out before you're doing that pilot episode, you think to yourself, you know, what can I do with -- you know, where am I going with this season ender that we're eventually going to get to.

And I was thinking very logistically. I was thinking the character of Jesse Pinkman can give Walter White his introduction into the world of criminality. And once he's accomplished that, we're not going to need him anymore. We can kill him off in some really horrific fashion at the end of season one, and that will propel us into season two. That's how I'm thinking.

And then we cast Aaron Paul, and the guy is just, he's like -- he's a wonderful actor, but he's also the greatest guy in the world and everyone instantly loves him on the set, in front of the camera and behind. And it very quickly became apparent that I'd be cutting off my own nose to spite my face if we were to kill off this character and get rid of this actor.

So on the set of like the first or second episode, I tell Aaron Paul this story. I say, hey, guess what, we're going to kill you off at the end of the season, and it's just all the blood left his face. And I said, no, no, no, we were, but we're not now because I like you so much. He's still looking panicked like a deer in the headlights. And I said, no, no, this is a good story, it's not a bad story. I'm not trying to rattle your cage.

But then Bryan Cranston overhears this and just runs with it. Every episode from then on, he makes sure to read the script first and he will say, Aaron, this is the one, sorry. Sorry, we're going to -- it was a great run.

(LAUGHTER)

[18:55:01]

ACOSTA: Oh, man. And then so it became a running gag. That's amazing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And my thanks to Vince Gilligan for joining me.

The premiere episode of the original series, "THE 2010s," it feels like it was so long ago, but it really wasn't, that airs tonight at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

Still ahead, we are following two major stories playing out in Texas. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin the hour with the latest from two heartbreaking tragedies in Texas. CNN is uncovering new details about the deadly shooting at an outlet mall outside of Dallas. Eight people killed, seven others wounded and a more complete image of the killer is coming into focus.

Also developing this evening, at least seven people are dead after a car plowed into a group of people outside a homeless shelter in Brownsville, Texas, earlier this morning. That shelter has been housing migrants.