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Donald Trump Sexually Abused And Defamed E. Jean Carroll, Jury Finds; Ukraine Lowers Expectations Ahead Of Counteroffensive; Islamic Jihad Vows Response To Israel Airstrikes; Imran Khan Expected To Special Court Hearing; Islamic Jihad Vows Response to Israeli Airstrikes on Gaza; Former Pakistan PM Expected at Special Court Hearing; Court to Hear NYC Plan to Send Migrants to Nearby Towns; Interview with Lionel Messi. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired May 10, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up this hour on CNN Newsroom, Donald J. Trump is a sexual abuser. And you'll jury finds E. Jean Carroll was telling the truth. She said the once indicted twice impeached one term president sexually abused her almost 30 years ago.
Reality check ahead of Ukraine, two major counter offensive officials are trying to lower expectations.
And Hamas vows revenge after Israeli airstrikes killed three commanders from Islamic Jihad in Gaza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN Newsroom with John Vause.
VAUSE: Great to have you with us. A federal jury in New York took less than three hours to decide that Donald Trump is a sexual abuser. Over the years dozens of women have made similar accusations but this is the first time Trump has been held accountable.
Part of the verdict all is Trump to pay $5 million in damages to Forbes magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll, who accused him of raping her in a department store changing room 27 years ago. His lawyers say they will appeal while Trump himself has repeatedly called the case a scam and a video posted to his social media platform. He accused both the judge and jury not liking him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: What else can you expect from a Trump hating Clinton appointed judge who went out of his way to make sure that the result of this trial was as negative as it could possibly be? Speaking to and in control of a jury from an anti-Trump area, which is probably the worst place in the United States for me to get a fair trial. We'll be appealing this decision. It's a disgrace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: In a statement after the verdict, Carroll says she filed a civil suit to clear her name and get her life back. She says the world finally knows the truth. And then a statement added this. This victory is not just for me, but for every woman who has suffered because she was not believed.
Voting is just the latest in a string of stunning legal blows for the former president. CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid was in the courtroom on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Or the speed of this decision suggests there was not a lot of disagreement or deliberation in the jury room. I was in the court Tuesday morning. And it took about 90 minutes for the judge to give the jury instructions on how to make this decision. And it took just a little bit longer than for that for them to actually make this decision.
And while I was in court throughout this trial, it was clear to me, this jury was being very attentive, not only to E. Jean Carroll, but also to other witnesses. And it's clear from this decision that they believe not only E. Jean Carroll, but they also believed her friends who heard her describe this encounter shortly after it occurred, and also women who alleged other similar behavior.
They also of course heard from the former president in his own words in the infamous Access Hollywood tape describing grabbing people and then doubling down on that in his deposition.
Now, we may never know exactly what the jury thought of specific pieces of evidence because they have been anonymous throughout this trial. And the judge has encouraged them to remain anonymous, even though they do have a right to speak out.
Now, the former president's lawyers are trying to spin this as a victory for their client, because the jury did not find that he raped E. Jean, but they did find that he sexually abused her that is still under the law, a form of sexual assault, a form of battery.
So if you have a day where your client is found to have sexually abused someone and defame them and may be on the hook for around $5 million in damages, it is hard to honestly spin that as a victory. Paula Reid, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: To New York now, Joey Jackson is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. It's good to see you.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Great to see you, John.
VAUSE: You know, it's pretty much given that every defense lawyer who loses a high profile case comes out of court and says they plan to appeal and we've heard from Trump's lawyers who says that one basis for an appeal will be because the jury found that Trump is a sexual abuser in this instance, and not a rapist as E. Jean Carroll had alleged, that the findings after that point are in question. I'm not a lawyer, but that kind of sounds like horse hockey.
JACKSON: Yes, I don't see that as a significant appealable issue and here's why. The essence of the claim are, there were two, one is battery the other is defamation. What does that mean? When you batter someone, battery is the touching of someone without consent.
[01:05:02]
And so whether the jury failed to find that there was actually intercourse and rape, right, the jury, however, did find sexual abuse and as much as there was an unlawful touching and unwanted touching that did not involve consent.
So I don't know that you can split hairs and give the indication that simply because the jury didn't find that extra step, that everything's appealable a battery is a battery, whether the unwanted touching is as significant and severe as a rape or otherwise.
VAUSE: Then there's the grid on the Access Hollywood tape, which was used as evidence against Trump. Here's a reminder, not that anyone actually needs to be reminded, listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want.
TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VAUSE: Trump lawyer says that shouldn't be admissible. Usually, previous charges or convictions are not admissible. But it is allowed in sexual abuse cases, right as a way of proving a pattern of behavior.
JACKSON: So yes, not only in sexual abuse cases, but other cases where you're establishing. There are certain rules of evidence, and in those rules of evidence to be clear, trials need to be about what they are about. And here, obviously, it was about whether he engaged in this conduct as to Ms. Carroll in the 90s and Bergdorf, Goodman, et cetera.
However, if you're establishing that a person is acting similarly to a pattern, it is their modus operandi, then you could establish evidence not to demonstrate that they did this act here, but to establish it as their MO, it is their pattern. And the evidence would then permit that is an appealable issue. It is because a judge will have to evaluate, was it so overwhelmingly damning and harmful that the jury didn't see the facts, but just base their conclusion of a verdict upon this tape.
One can argue perhaps they did, perhaps they didn't. Obviously, Ms. Carroll says it was one of many things that the jury based its decision on, and a judge could easily conclude that under the rules, it is admissible, nothing to see here and a non-issue as it relates to an appeal. That'll be the argument.
VAUSE: OK, so the once indicted has sexual abuse, twice impeached, one term former President shared his grievances about the verdict on social media, saying this, what else can you expect from a Trump hating Clinton appointed judge who went out of his way to make sure that the result was as negative as it could possibly be? That sounds kind of familiar.
Here's Trump speaking last month to his indicted in a criminal case with paying hush money to a porn star.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And this is where we are right now. I have a Trump hating judge with the Trump hating wife and family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: What are the odds you get to Trump hating judges in a row?
JACKSON: Yes, I mean, look, this is his playbook. This is what he does. And there are people who buy into that, right, converting it and deferring and deflecting from the facts at issue to it's political, everyone's against me, I'm the victim, people hate me. And therefore, it's not about the facts. It's about them not liking Trump.
The reality is, is that there was more than sufficient evidence in this case for the jury to conclude as they did not a criminal case. So there was not a conviction. But there was a finding of liability.
VAUSE: You know, in the context of Trumps other legal problems that he's facing, this case may not carry the same kind of level of national significance, but explain why this verdict is important. Why significant in some way.
JACKSON: So it's very important, you know, courts of law, or for those people who are victims to get vindication, right, to be heard and to otherwise have their day in court as to what their claims are. And this is what we saw. And although it's not a conviction, criminally, it's accountability in a civil context. And where you have Ms. Carroll saying he did this, to me, it was wrong, hold him accountable. The jury just did that.
Now, to be clear, there are other things which could land him in jail. This was to be clear monetary damages to the tune of almost 5 million, right, this lawsuit. But when you look at the issues that he's facing in Georgia, with respect to election interference, when you look at what he's facing as it relates to federal crime and the insurrection of January 6, as it relates to classified documents and other things, he could face significant exposure there.
But everything is important. Every measure of justice is important. And this was the first shoe to drop. I didn't even mention New York, where he was indicted, and was in the court in New York just very recently. But I think accountability comes in different forms. This was an important form today. There may be significant other forms, as I noted to follow, John.
VAUSE: Joey Jackson, great to have you with us. Thank you, sir. A pleasure.
JACKSON: Thank you.
VAUSE: CNN will host the townhall Wednesday with Donald Trump live from New Hampshire, the 2024 Republican presidential candidate. We take questions from CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins starts at 8:00 p.m. on the U.S. East Coast and 8:00 a.m. on Thursday in Hong Kong on CNN.
Another billion dollar aid package from the U.S. for Ukraine. The White House says the package includes air defense systems and much needed ammunition. The U.S. Secretary of State holds stuff there as well. U.S. Secretary of State says Ukraine now has everything it needs militarily for their counter offensive.
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ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: My own estimation is that they have in place across all of those dimensions what they need to continue to be successful in regaining territory that was seized by force by Russia over the last 14 months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: In Kyiv, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen marked Europe Day with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He urged her to speed up deliveries of ammunition, saying Ukraine needs them now. Von der Leyen praised Ukraine for successfully fighting back against Russia, saying Moscow has dramatically failed.
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URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISION PRESIDENT: Courageously. Ukraine is fighting for the ideals of Europe that we celebrate today. In Russia, Putin and his regime have destroyed these values. And now they are attempting to destroy them here in Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is a CNN military analyst. He is also the former commanding general for U.S. Army, Europe and Seventh Army. Good to see it.
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to see you again.
VAUSE: OK, so for those who may be thinking about the Ukrainian counter-offensive that it's a bit like a movie, you know, where the kid who was beaten up by the nasty school bully with bad Botox. It goes off he spends the summer learning how to fight gets fitter and stronger. And then first apega (ph) school he kicks the bullies. Well, the British foreign secretary says don't think that way. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLEVERLY, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We need to recognize that there might not be a kind of a, you know, a simple, quick, decisive breakthrough. And the point that we've made in the U.K. is that we have to -- we have to stick with them. Now I hope and expect they'll do very, very well. Because whenever I've seen the Ukrainians, as I say they've outperformed expectations. But you know, we have to be realistic. This is the real world. This is not a Hollywood movie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So what are reasonable expectations here when it comes to the cover offensive?
HERTLING: I think the foreign secretary said it correctly, John. Here's what's going to happen. First of all, for the first time, you're going to see Ukraine switch from the defense as a -- as an army to an offensive force. So that in and of itself is going to require some changes.
In addition to that, for the last four months, you've seen Russian forces, establishing a very, very complex and coordinated defensive zone with why minds, wire, trenches positions, and it's easier to flee to fight the defense than it is the offense. So both sides are switching positions.
However, Ukraine has been training significantly. They have a bunch of new kit that I think can outgun and outrange their Russian counterparts. They will take over territory I'm convinced of that and they will take in my view significant territory, will it be a grand sweeping offensive across the 600 mile front from the Donbas down to Zaporizhzhia? Probably not. But they will conduct operations in a very different way than what the West is used to seeing on the battlefield.
VAUSE: I want you listen to the U.S. Secretary of State and listen for the words, 14 months. Here's Antony Blinken.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLINKEN: We have worked very hard to adjust that every step of the way to what was needed at any given time. And right now, of course, the focus is on the Ukrainian efforts that we anticipate to try to retake more of the territory that's been seized from Ukraine by Russia over the last the last 14 plus months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: He said that a couple of times on Tuesday said not all of us coming from anti-Blinken when it comes to the counteroffensive. So clearly, what from the U.S. point of view Crimea and parts of the Donbas, what they're just out of reach? HERTLING: I'm not sure to be honest with you. Again, this is the battlefield. We will see what happens. I agree that they will take back a significant amount of territory where that ends. What you're talking about is two major oblast in the south, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. Those are large areas of conflict, and the Donbas with Donetsk and Luhansk is also pretty large.
I'm predicting that they will take back a significant amount of territory that can be 20 kilometers, it can be 200 kilometers, it can be freedom for all of the oblast that that Russia took. I'm just not sure. We'll see how the fight goes.
VAUSE: Well, Victor Day in Russia has come and gone and is often the case this national holiday marking the defeat of Nazi invaders, by the Soviets a broader sense of nostalgia for a time long since passed. So that's a time when the Russian military actually had victories.
Despite throwing everything they had at Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine they still had no victories to celebrate. Listen to this.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They were not able to capture Bakhmut. This was the last important military operation that they wanted to complete by the ninth of May. And unfortunately, this city does not exist anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So now it's sort of all over and done with does Bakhmut sort of fade away. What happens?
HERTLING: Well, you know, John, what I will tell you one of the lessons I learned very early on in my careers don't make predictions about the battlefield. When Prigozhin and Putin both said they were take Bakhmut about five months ago, that was a pretty bold move, as we say, a pretty bold move their cotton, and they didn't have the offensive force to do that. They are now embarrassed. That's why you don't make those kinds of predictions on the battlefield.
But I got to tell you that the Victory Day parade going back to what you said earlier in Moscow, today was just embarrassing. You know, what you're talking about is about a 10th of the number of vehicles of smaller crowd, as Prigozhin even said, you know, it was a celebration of Soviet World War II victories because they have not had a Russian victory lately. And that seems to be the truth.
VAUSE: General Hertling, it's always good to have you with us.
HERTLING: Thank you, John.
VAUSE: It seems to some Ukrainians whose front door is not far from the front line, the ones who have almost background noise to their daily lives, and while everyday brings a very real risk of being killed. After more than 14 months of conflict, it's more than just stoicism. It seems that almost none. CNN's Nic Robertson reports now from eastern Ukraine.
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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNTIONAL DEPLOMATIC EDITOR (voiceover): A few miles from Ukraine's eastern front life is well sort of normal, although it's not outside of war who needs this much camo kit?
ROBERTSON (on camera): Thank you very much. Thank you. She gave me a nice woolly hat to keep me warm.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): People are friendly, not frozen in fear, even though they feel it. We don't know what's happening 30 minutes from now she says, let alone an hour. No worries shown in the town park either. Workers trim the grass as artillery shells tear up not so distant fields.
Showing fear it seems is an abandoned indulgence. Air raid warnings passed now.
ROBERTSON (on camera): The sirens have become such a background part of people's lives here living through the war. They don't even respond. Take notice flinch, even. War is just ever present, pervaded through people's lives.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): Outside of town, even closer to the front. This elderly couple nonchalantly tell us their home was showed last month.
He even jokes, it's boring when there's no shooting. Both though hopeful Ukraine's coming counteroffensive will end their suffering. We believe Ukraine will go in there and beat the well, his wife says.
Further on pensioners in Navi (ph) is more worried about his weeds than the war. We don't understand anything about the counteroffensive, he says. We just hope for our Ukraine for our defense.
Where and when the counteroffensive may begin is one of the wars best kept secret so far. The mystery is exactly what Ukraine wants. Keep Russia guessing, stretch their supply lines, SAP troop morale, Ukraine's victory rides on surprise.
ROBERTSON (on camera): Driving around near the front lines here you can hear some shelling in the distance. And you can see plenty of soldiers around but what you don't get a sense of is any big build up for a counteroffensive.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): Farmers here are counting on their troop success. So in crops in fields they want to harvest and fall.
Mikela (ph) hopes the counteroffensive will secure his land but says he knows some of the soldiers around here knows how hard the fight will be knows it will be a bloody battle. Nic Robertson, CNN, Eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE) VAUSE: Still to come, Pakistan's former prime minister will be in a court after a public arrest by military troops but live with the very latest after the break.
And as Israel prepares for reprisals from Islamic jihad after three senior commanders were killed by an Israeli airstrike, the big unknown right now will Hamas militants eventually control Gaza sit on the sidelines, we'll go all in.
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[01:22:14]
VAUSE: At this hour former Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan scheduled to appear a special court hearing on charges of corruption connected to his time in office. He was arrested Tuesday setting of unprecedented nationwide protests and violent clashes between his supporters and security forces. CNN Ivan Watson has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): An eruption in Pakistan's long simmering political view, paramilitary forces breaking through the window of the High Court in the country's capital to detain the former prime minister and cricket star Imran Khan, seen here wearing sunglasses.
Officers dragged Conaway arresting him on charges of corruption dating back to his time in government. But the politician clearly anticipated something like this. He taped this statement before appearing in court.
IMRAN KKHAN, FORMER PAKISTAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): But the time you received these words of mine, I will have been detained on incorrect charges. Pakistan constitution which gives us rights, which gives us democracy has been varied. Perhaps I won't get the opportunity to speak to you again.
WATSON: Khan went on to tell his supporters the time has come for all of you to struggle for your rights.
In a matter of hours, protests erupt in cities across the country, some of them turning violent. A CNN journalist in Quetta saw a demonstrator shot and killed by police as a crowd charged at security forces. Pakistan's powerful military a target of this anger. Khan's political party shared this footage of protesters breaking through and apparently unguarded gates at the headquarters of the military in Rawalpindi. And CNN films demonstrators overrunning the residence of the top military commander in Lahore.
Khan has been leading a public campaign against the current government and its military allies ever since a no-confidence vote in Parliament last year, forced him out of the prime minister's office. In March, he resisted an attempt by police to arrest him for missing a court appearance, leading to clashes between police and his supporters around his home in Lahore.
Khan claims authorities are trying to stop him from running in elections later this year. While Pakistani officials insist arrest warrants are not politically motivated. Pakistan is already struggling with soaring inflation that seen skyrocketing prices for food and fuel. A nuclear armed nation now reeling from economic and political crises. Ivan Watson, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Let's go live with Paula Hancocks now with the very latest. So what do we know about this court appearance?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we understand from police that Imran Khan will be appearing in front of a judge this Wednesday. Now we believe it would be at the police headquarters where he is understood to be held at this point, he's saying that they don't want him to be seen in public knowing just how incendiary this could be.
Now outside that police headquarters, we have footage in showing that they have increased security in that area blocking the roads, we understand there are riot police as well according to our team on the ground that are outside that area.
And in addition, there are also supporters of Imran Khan who have arrived to show their support for the former prime minister.
Now, we have heard from Imran Khan's lawyer saying I have had no contact with my client. So up until this point, we understand he has not been able to speak to Imran Khan himself. Now the police decided or officials decided not to move him to a court as they didn't want him to be out in public. There are concerns that there could be further clashes between the police officers that are there and the supporters themselves. And that's exactly what we saw happen on Tuesday.
John, we heard from Imran Khan in that pre-recorded statement. Clearly understanding there was a possibility that this was going to happen, saying that he called on his supporters to rise up saying that the time has come for you all to come and struggle for your rights. And it's exactly what we saw. We saw at least one person lose their lives. We saw dozens of arrests. We saw ransacking an army commanders official residents.
So certainly there is a concern that there could be increased violence in the days or even the hours to come. And that is clearly why officials at this point are trying to do this behind closed doors. But the fact is it is completely behind closed doors. There is no transparency at this point. And as I say, Imran Khan's lawyers saying he has not been able to be in contact with him.
VAUSE: Paula, thank you. Paula Hancocks is very latest live. Thank you, Paula. We'll take a short break. But when we come back how bad and for how long Israel braces for an escalation and rocket fire from Gaza, Islamic jihad strikes back to the killing of three senior commanders.
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VAUSE: Hello and welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause, you're watching CNN Newsroom. Our response from Islamic jihad to Israel's deadly airstrikes on Gaza Tuesday was always a foregone conclusion.
[01:29:49]
What is not known right now is when, for how long and how quickly the violence could escalate should Hamas, the militant group which runs Gaza, fully commit to a military strike.
Hamas is no friend of Islamic Jihad but still vowed revenge to the killing of three commanders from the Al-Quds brigade, the military wing of Islamic Jihad.
Also killed five women and four children, family members according to health officials in Gaza. Hours later came another Israeli airstrike in southern Gaza which the IDF targeted -- says they were targeting Islamic Jihad terrorists as they were moving anti tank missiles to a launch pad.
The Palestinian ministry of health says two people were killed, two others wounded in that attack. And with expectations the violence will surge in the coming days, Israel's prime minister had this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Our principle is clear. Whoever harms us we will strike at them. And with great force our long arm will reach every terrorist at a time and place of our choosing.
We are in the midst of a campaign. We are prepared for all possibilities and I suggest that our enemies not test us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: More now from CNN correspondent Hadas Gold reporting in from southern Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Early morning airstrikes on Gaza targeting what Israel called "Kingpin terrorists", senior operatives of Islamic Jihad backed by Iran.
The doctors in Gaza said at least 10 other people were killed as well. Among them some of the men's family members, including at least five women and four children.
An Israel Defense Forces spokesman saying, quote, "We're aware of some collateral while insisting their pinpoint strikes had targeted only Islamic Jihad terrorists" as they try to keep Hamas off the battlefield. The IDF saying its operation called "Shield and Arrow" is a response
to more than 100 rockets fired from Gaza towards Israel a week ago. Those rockets in turn, a response to the death in an Israeli prison of this man, Khader Adnan, a former Islamic Jihad spokesman who died after an 87-day hunger strike.
Even before Khader Adnan's death, this has been a potentially record- setting violent year in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. More than 100 Palestinians, both militant and civilians killed by Israeli forces this year, at least 19 killed on the Israeli side in Palestinian attacks.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, leading Israel's most far right government ever, vowing that Israel will strike back at those who harm Israelis.
Palestinian militant groups led by Hamas, saying, quote, "Occupation crimes against their people will not go unpunished.
Israeli military reservists have been called up as residents in southern Israel are told to stay close to their bomb shelters.
Leaving this region, tense at the best of times, potentially on the verge of explosion.
Hadas Gold, CNN -- Ashdod, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Yaakov Katz is a senior columnist and editor of the "Jerusalem Post". He's also an early riser which is very much appreciated. Thanks for being with us.
YAAKOV KATZ, SENIOR COLUMNIST/EDITOR, "JERUSALEM POST": Thank you, John.
VAUSE: Ok. Io the editorial in the "Jerusalem Post" Wednesday, here's the headline. "Israel's operation Shield and Arrow is about Gaza rockets, not politics. "That's the editorial.
Over at Haaretz though the editorial has a different take, "Gaza assassinations were all about Israeli politics".
Can I play mediator here? Can both be true? Doesn't politics always play some kind of role in deciding military strikes, like the one we saw Tuesday?
KATZ: Look politics are always part of policy right? Any leader who's in office has to take into consideration the political impact or consequences of whatever decision they are going to make. And the pressure that they are under from within their coalition or from among their electorate.
But I think in this case, actually John what we had was just a week ago 104 or 102 rockets that were fired into Israeli cities just a couple of few weeks ago during Passover. We had rockets that were fired into Israel on three different fronts -- Gaza, Lebanon, Syria all at the same time.
Behind all of this, as well as attempts to build up a rocket production capability in the West Bank directed from Gaza, is the Islamic Jihad. Israel had to defend itself, had to respond.
Are there political issues that the prime minister of Israel is dealing with at the same time? It is possible, but I think that here we are really looking at an act of self-defense.
VAUSE: Ok. Well, Hamas has issued a statement, vowing revenge for the deaths of the three Islamic Jihad commanders. But there still seems this uncertainty that they'll actually get fully involved, fully committed in some kind of military strike. They've avoided doing so on a number of occasions. So will they or won't they? What is your read?
KATZ: Well, I think that is the big question, right? What we have right now is a very tense quiet which is unlike what we have seen in the past.
Usually, after a targeted killings or three of them, as we saw just about 24 hours ago or a little more, we would've had a response, already from Islamic Jihad and maybe from Hamas.
[01:34:58]
KATZ: But Hamas has been sitting on the sidelines. They've sat on the sidelines in the past when Israel specifically targeted just Islamic Jihad and sent a message to Hamas, we are not looking for you to get involved. That's why none of your people were targeted in the strike.
So it will be interesting to see what Hamas does. But the fact that there has been no, response yet, not a single rocket is very interesting and telling. And it raises questions, what is Islamic Jihad waiting for? It could be that maybe they're taking a page out of Israel's playbook, right.
Israel got hit by those hundred rockets last week, it didn't retaliate right away. Prime Minister Netanyahu did come under some pressure from the public and the media and within his own coalition that his response was weak.
But what we saw was it was actually building up from what happened 24 hours ago with the targeting of these three Islamic Jihad guys.
So is Islamic Jihad also trying to put Israel to sleep for a few days? And then to target when it has the advantage? It's not exactly clear but it's interesting that we're still 24 hours later with no response.
VAUSE: Well, let's hope it stays that way, but it probably won't.
The head of Israel's domestic intelligence service, the Shin Bet said one of the dead Islamic jihad commanders is overseeing a rocket operation in the West Bank. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RONEN BAR, HEAD, SHIN BET SECURITY AGENCY (through translator): In the last few weeks we thwarted a cell in the refugee camp of Jenin that began to manufacture rockets and rocket launchers from some area into Israel. We see this as a dangerous precedent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Looking at the map, at Israel's narrowest pest, the hourglass is less than 10 miles from Netanya and its (INAUDIBLE) column in the West Bank. The rocket operation was said to be in a refugee camp in Jenin just north of there.
You know, rockets and drones or attack drones are being made or shipped to the West Bank has always been this major security concern. Is it eventually though a question of when it happens, not if?
I think so, you know, ultimately, look just like they were able to create this production assembly line in the Gaza strip, even despite Israeli efforts to stop it and how impressive the capability they have, today like they have rockets there that could already reach Tel Aviv.
So do they really need a rocket capability in the West Bank on those mountains of the (INAUDIBLE) that looked down into Israel's coast, which includes Tel Aviv, (INAUDIBLE) and other parts of the country?
I'm not exactly sure if they need it but on the other hand that would be a huge escalation. The reason they don't have it yet though is because Israel does have operational freedom in the West Bank.
And we see periodical operations, weekly, pretty much inside some of these terror havens inside the West Bank. Places like Jenin, Nabulus and other parts of the Palestinian territories. Israel has been able to stop that from happening.
But it's possible John, like you said it's a matter of time when they get that. But that would be seen as another escalation. Remember, Israel has a rocket hit from Gaza. You've had rockets from Lebanon. You've had rockets from Syria.
The last thing this country wants is another rocket front on its eastern border.
VAUSE: Yes, absolutely. It may be time for negotiations perhaps but maybe it will come later.
Yaakov Katz, it's always good to have you with us.
KATZ: Wishful thinking.
VAUSE: I know. Trying to be an optimist. Thanks, Yaakov. Appreciate you being with us.
KATZ: Thanks. VAUSE: And when we come back, hundreds of migrants camped out on the streets of El Paso Texas heed a call to turn themselves in to immigration authority. We'll explain why after the break.
[01:38:09]
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VAUSE: Well, we're waiting for the former Pakistani prime minister, Imran Khan, to appear at a special court hearing on charges of corruption related (ph) to his time in office.
Let's go to Sophia Saifi here who is actually live for us in Islamabad with the very latest. Do we know if Imran Khan has actually made an appearance yet?
SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we don't know whether he's made an appearance. What we do know is that since last night he is being kept. -- he's been moved since he was arrested rather dramatically. Those dramatic scenes that we saw outside Islamabad high court yesterday afternoon.
He's been moved to right behind where I am right now. This is the police headquarters of Islamabad. It's called the police lines (ph). Imran Khan is in that compound somewhere.
There's a special court that has been formed by a special order that has been issued by the Office of the District Commissioner of Islamabad. We've been here since early morning. We have seen huge containers come up and be placed here preventing any access to that compound.
We've spoken to Imran Khan's legal team. There've been lawyers coming and going. And, they have not been given any access to their client at all.
They've actually told us that they haven't been able to speak to him. They do not know what condition he is in. They know that he is in there but they have absolutely no access to him. They have no access to the court. They've actually left only very recently. We also saw senior party leaders of Imran Khan's party try to come and meet him. Trying to make some meetings while they were here with other senior officials of the police. However, that is not happened. They've been moved away as well.
We have seen cars coming in of senior officials, possibly of the head of paramilitary troops. I think the main thing to understand here is that it is not the police that arrested Imran Khan yesterday -- this incredibly popular politician in Pakistan.
(AUDIO GAP)
There have been protests across the country. There are protesters right behind me. They have been gathering since early morning. The right police if you can see behind, there are police cars coming in and out. There is a sense of unease because there was this fear that Imran Khan was going to be arrested ever since he was ousted from power back in April of last year.
There have been protests across the country. But right now, all we know is that he is in that compound behind us. His lawyers have had no access to him. The police tried to arrest him, multiple times all of this year. They were unsuccessful.
The paramilitary troops were successful. And we do not know how this day is going to unfold. And what is going to happen when Khan eventually does appear before the special court without any legal representation, John.
VAUSE: Sophia, thank you. Sophia Saifi there in Islamabad with the very latest. We appreciate it.
In El Paso, Texas migrants are being urged to turn themselves in to immigration authorities ahead of a looming expiration on Title 42, the COVID-era policy which empowered border agents to bypass standard procedures and expel those who cross the border illegally.
But Title 42 will be allowed to expire Thursday which means normal legal procedures and due process will be in effect a moment tens, even thousands, even tens of thousands of would-be asylum seekers have been waiting for.
Authorities encountered nearly 10,000 migrants on the southern border on Monday, continuing upward trend in border arrests in recent weeks. The federal government estimates more than 150,000 migrants are waiting in shelters and on the streets of northern Mexico.
U.S. President Joe Biden spoke with Mexico's president by phone on Tuesday as the two countries try to manage this crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got an overwhelming cooperation from Mexico. We also are in the process of setting up offices in Colombia and other places where you can or someone seeking asylum can go first.
So -- but it remains to be seen. It is going to be chaotic for a while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: CNN's Rosa Flores is in El Paso where hundreds of asylum seekers are now heeding a warning from federal authorities.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The scene here in El Paso, Texas has changed. If you take a look around me you'll see that the streets are empty. They used to be packed but now they are empty.
Here is what's happened.
Take a look at this video. There was a federal enforcement action very early this morning, our cameras were rolling when all of this was unfolding. Federal agents in the dark were handing migrants who were sleeping on the streets, flyers. Those flyers were encouraging them to turn themselves in to immigration authorities.
[01:44:56]
FLORES: Now at first there was confusion because migrants didn't know what was going on, and then the fear sank in once they realized that they had to make a critical decision.
A few hours later, we started seeing migrants lineup at a processing center that's a few minutes walk away. We saw that line grow by the hundreds.
A few hours later, a second enforcement action. This time officers, agents, federal agents with flak jackets telling people verbally that they should turn themselves in to immigration authorities.
Now if you take a look around me, there is a mix of people, some of them have completely left and if you look at these a blanket, these were the blankets that a lot of the migrants were using to protect themselves from the sun. Well, the blankets are here but if you look under there, the migrants are gone.
A lot of them have turned themselves in to immigration authorities, but out here there is a mix. I've talked to multiple migrants. Some of them say that they've turned themselves in to immigration authorities, and they were released. And so they are back in the camp and they're waiting for a bus or they're waiting for a plane ticket so they could go meet their families somewhere in the United States.
Now all of this is happening as the end of Title 42 looms on May 11th at 11:59 pm. Now about what's going on in the northern border and the flow that we are expecting as Title 42 or the end of Title 42 approaches? According to a source, the federal government estimates that there are more than 150,000 migrants in northern Mexican cities waiting to turn themselves in to immigration authorities or waiting to cross into the United States.
Now that is important because the detention facilities, the holding facilities are already maxed out at capacity. So that is what the administration is grappling with and no one really knows what will happen once Title 42 ends.
Rosa Flores, CNN -- El Paso.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: And a big legal win for a small town in New York state, granted a temporary restraining order which prevents hundreds of asylum seekers being bused in from New York City.
The New York City mayor has defended the controversial plan blaming a lack of federal leadership. More details now from Polo Sandoval.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Renold Julien braces for an increase in the number of migrants filling his Rockland County waiting room even before New York City's mayor announced its plans to offer up to 300 willing asylum seekers transportation and hotel rooms in either Rockland or Orange Counties, Julien's nonprofit has been dealing with an uptick in the need for migrant assistance just about an hour's drive north of New York City.
When or if some take up the offer from Eric Adams, that need will be even greater, fears Julien.
RENOLD JULIEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, KONBIT NEG LAKAY: Rockland County we don't have the infrastructure. Yes we have the knowledge, we know what to do, but we need funding.
SANDOVAL: Adams' plan has ignited a fire storm of criticism from some in the community.
ROGER ISIDRO, ROCKLAND COUNTY RESIDENT: I want to help people, but they should help the people the way it should be and not like this. I hope there's only 300 but I don't know.
SANDOVAL: But none more vocal than leaders in the area announcing similar emergency declarations meant in part to keep New York City from shuffling asylum seekers to their communities.
ED DAY, ROCKLAND COUNTY EXECUTIVE: This is a matter of border policy which is completely outside the realm of Rockland County obviously except we get the impact of it right now.
STEVEN NEUHAUS, ORANGE COUNTY EXECUTIVE: I definitely have compassion for these folks. We've had a few of them come through over the last six to eight months. Most of them are just looking for a better life which the American dream is but there is a better way of doing it.
SANDOVAL: For the Adams administration, the relocation program is meant to give the crisis-stricken city some room for what maybe up to a thousand migrant arrivals in the Big Apple once Title 42 is lifted.
In a previous statement Mayor Adams said "This new voluntary program will provide asylum seekers with temporary housing, access to services, and connections to local communities as they build a stable life in New York state.
Only that may not be so easy, argues Julien.
JULIEN: Who would be helping them to fill out the application for work permits? Who will be taking them to the Department of Social Services? Who will be helping them to register for English classes?
SANDOVAL: Polo Sandoval, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: With that we'll pause. We'll take a short break. Back in a moment, you're watching CNN. [01:49:21]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: The U.N. is warning that the war in Sudan is having increasingly severe consequences on civilians as the fighting continues. Residents on Tuesday reported heavy airstrikes in the capital of Khartoum.
Eyewitnesses say the Sudanese army unleashed intense air bombardments in the center of the city and around the presidential palace. The U.N. says the number of internally displaced people has drastically gone up in the past week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL DILLON, MANAGING EDITOR, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: The number of people internally displaced in Sudan has doubled in the last week. More than 700,000 people are now internally displaced by the fighting which began on the 15th of April according to this latest data.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: More than 150,000 people have fled the country and the U.N. expects that number to rise to a total of almost 900,000.
More than 400 people have died after a widespread flooding across the Democratic Republic of Congo last week. Aid workers found more bodies among the devastation and some of the wounded died from their injuries.
The flood swept through two villages in the country's east. A local official says more than 5,500 people remain missing. It's the DRC's deadliest natural disaster in recent history.
A new health (INAUDIBLE) draft is proposing that all women at average risk of breast cancer should start screening at age 40 instead of 50. The U.S. Preventative Services Task Force says early screening would reduce their risk of dying from the disease.
It's an update from a 2016 recommendation when the task force proposed that biennial mammograms should start at age 50.
Breast cancer is the second most common cancer among women in the U.S. and rates of deaths are highest among black women.
Soccer player Lionel Messi's representative has dismissed rumors the football star is joining a club in Saudi Arabia after his contract at Paris Saint Germain's end next month.
French news agency AFP reported the move was a quote, "done deal" but Messi's representative says he won't make a decision on his future until after the League One season is over.
PSG suspended the Argentine for two weeks after he took an unauthorized trip to Saudi to conduct personal business. Messi returned to training on Monday before heading off to the Laureus World Sports Awards in Paris.
He spoke to CNN's Amanda Davies about the winning sportsmen of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Lionel Messi, congratulations on being named Laureus Sportsmen of the Year. What does this mean to you?
LIONEL MESSI, SOCCER PLAYER (through translator): Thank you very much. The truth is that it's an honor to be able to have this award. To be able to enter with many great athletes who are previous winners. To be nominated alongside personalities from other sports is incredible. So we are very happy about this recognition.
DAVIES: So I'm fascinated. How often do you actually think about Qatar and reflect on those moments from December the 18th?
MESSI: Well, Qatar always shows up. It's a very special moment in my career, in my life, and while there's always a time to remember that moment of the World Cup which we enjoyed a lot for a month. And there are always nice memories left and it's going to be for life.
DAVIES: What was it for you that made this Argentina team so special?
MESSI: Well, I don't know what makes it so special. The truth is that it's a group that has been working together for a while in which we enjoy what we do when we are together.
Sharing all the moments day to day, not just training and games, but enjoying being together. And the Argentine national team is very special as always, not only for this group but for all of the players who've had to wear the Argentine shirt. Wearing the national team shirt is very special for everyone.
[01:54:55]
DAVIES: It was 2016 that you actually announced your retirement from international football. Is it fair to say changing your mind is the best decision of your life?
MESSE: Well, the truth is that it was a difficult time for me when I felt it had to be that way. Luckily, later I was able to reverse that idea or that word that I had said and I was able to enjoy it again. And I realized what the Argentine national team meant to me. And being able to end it out winning all the titles makes it even more special.
DAVIES: You won it all, you've done it all. What was the most important thing for you now moving forward?
MESSI: Well, football is something that I have a loved and enjoyed since I was a child. I love playing it and I love every day life. It was my whole life to be able to enjoy what I like, and is looking for that to keep enjoying, to keep playing, which is what always made me happy.
As long as that is the case, if I can, I'll keep doing it.
DAVIES: And I have to ask before we finish, you've got this trophy, you are standing here with that in your hands. Is this debate over? Are you now officially the greatest?
MESSI: Well it wasn't a thought I had throughout my career, nor was I looking for that. The mere fact of being considered among the names of people thinking or saying, being among those whatever ten, five, three, whoever they want, it's already crazy.
I never played soccer for that. But obviously I am grateful that people think that way and honestly I don't give importance to whatever position it is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: CNN's Amanda Davies there speaking with football player Lionel Messi.
Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause.
Stay with us, the news continues on CNN with Rosemary Church, my friend and colleague, right after this.
See you right back here tomorrow.
[01:57:13]
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