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CNN International: Major Shift in Immigration Rules as Title 42 Expires; Biden's Next Meeting with Congressional Leaders Postponed; Republican Lawmakers Distance Themselves from Trump's Comments; U.K. Supplies First Long-Range Missiles to Ukraine; U.S. Searching for Ways to Entice Russia to Release Americans; U.S. Accuses South Africa of Loading Arms onto Russian Ship. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired May 12, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo, live from London, Max Foster has the day off. Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time that the president announced a declaration of national emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are working within the constraints of a broken and fundamentally broken immigration system.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: I have not seen from their seriousness of the White House, that they want to deal. It seems like they want to default. That's what they want to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He knows exactly what happened, he knows what, where, when, who, why and how. He knows the answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

NOBILO: It is Friday May 12th, 9 a.m. here in London and 2 a.m. in El Paso Texas, where a landmark change in U.S. immigration policy is now in effect. The controversial COVID era rule known as Title 42 expired just a few hours ago. That means harsher consequences for those entering the U.S. illegally. Thousands of migrants seeking asylum made their way to the southern border ahead of the deadline. And authorities have detained a record number of migrants in the past few days. While things appear quiet at crossings right now, one official tells CNN, it will get worse. The head of U.S. Homeland Security gave this warning to those seeking to enter the country illegally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Starting tonight, people who arrive at the border without using a lawful pathway will be presumed ineligible for asylum. Do not believe the lies of smugglers. People who do not use available, legal pathways to enter the U.S., now face tougher consequences. Including a minimum five-year ban on reentry and potential criminal prosecution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Earlier, U.S. customs and border protection said it will comply with the federal court ruling that temporarily blocks the release of migrants from border patrol, without court notices. It calls the ruling harmful and will result in unsafe overcrowding at their facilities. The ruling expires in 14 days and the Biden administration is expected to appeal.

The U.S. officials estimate about 150,000 migrants are waiting in northern Mexico. Including in these regions, in shelters and in camping on the streets. They also estimate hundreds of thousands of migrants are in the pipeline in southern Mexico and Central American countries. CNN senior national correspondent, Ed Lavandera has the latest for you from El Paso Texas.

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ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The public health policy known as Title 42 has been lifted. It had been in place since March of 2020 during the Trump administration, and it essentially became a de facto immigration, policy even though that is never what Title 42 was intended to do. But nevertheless, it has been kept in place and kept out about 3 million migrants from requesting asylum since that time. So, now the question becomes, what will the U.S. southern border look like now that this policy has been lifted? And what is the future of migration here along the southern border?

The U.S. border patrol chief says that he no longer expects this massive rush of people, which at some point, the Biden administration was estimating would be anywhere from 15,000 to 18,000 people per day. The U.S. border patrol chief says they've already started seeing in the days leading up to this point, a larger influx of migrants. So, he thinks that it is not going to be as dramatic as what had been anticipated.

And, you know now for migrants requesting asylum it's become a much more traditional but difficult process. Now that Title 42 is gone, there are stricter penalties in place that can threaten the migrant ability to immigrate into the United States. So, this really does change the dynamic on the ground here.

And one of the things to look for will be the number of people trying to evade arrest by U.S. border patrol officials here on the ground.

[04:05:00]

We're also starting to see an uptick in the number of people crossing in areas away from city centers where there is a heavily fortified border wall and that sort of thing.

So, the question becomes, how many more people will be trying to evade arrest and get away from border patrol agents here on the ground and continue to enter the country illegally. But, you know, right now, you know, we're getting kind of like mixed signals if you will as to what exactly is going to happen here in the days ahead.

Many border communities bracing for the worst. But it's a question of, you know, just how intense will this influx of migrants be. We just don't have a clear picture yet on the situation.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, El Paso Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Disaster declarations were issued into south Texas countries ahead of Title 42 exploration to help free up state and federal resources. Mayors of U.S. cities along the southern border are speaking out about the situation and calling on the federal government to help.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGLAS NICHOLLS, YUMA, ARIZONA MAYOR: The need for a state of emergency for our nation is dire. Numerous immediate actions upon declaration of emergency are possible. A full response by FEMA and the National Guard like they would in any other disaster. Where they provide boots on the ground for housing, food, transportation and health care. That would be the beginning.

OSCAR LEESER, EL PASO, TEXAS MAYOR: They're here for an opportunity and we really need to expedite those processes. We can sit there and wait for five or six years and make sure that the process and the expectations on how to manage the process can become simpler and clearer for everybody coming into the U.S.

VICTOR TREVINO, LAREDO, TEXAS MAYOR: But I'm concerned that too many migrant transfers can cause more stress and already stressed medical infrastructure. We don't have a pediatric intensive care unit. And with the arrival of family units, I don't want to see any child get gravely ill and not be able to treat them. So, at this point we're boarding up like it was a hurricane coming.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: The weather could create even more dangerous conditions for anyone arriving at the U.S. Mexico border this weekend. The National Weather Service says that a threat of flash flooding and severe storms. CNN's Chad Myers has more on the forecast.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, it has already been a violent week here in the middle part of the United States with tornadoes, large hail as big as a grapefruit at times. Some tennis ball, and then obviously, quite a bit of golf ball sized hills on the storms that had already moved through the area. But we're focusing now on the area here along the Rio Grande River.

That's where the storms will fire tonight and then all day really on Saturday. This is going to be a high impact event for everyone that will be outside. 2 to 3 inches of rain per hour, total somewhere in the neighborhood of about 200 millimeters of rainfall could fall along the river here in south Texas and also northern Mexico. And it's not just one day. It will be more than one day of storms here and flash flood watches are issued.

Flash flood watches are different than river flooding. River flooding happens when the river slowly rises. Flash flooding happens when you have such very, very quick rainfall, and high rainfall amounts at one time. One, two, three, four hours and you get 200 millimeters of rain, the water just doesn't soak in. It runs off. And that's what we're seeing here, in the red zone that is all 200 millimeters of rainfall, just over the next 48 hours.

So, there is a high risk really, it's called moderate, but in my opinion, it's a higher risk of flash flooding here especially under some of those storms. A large area in the orange are the National Weather Service calling it a moderate risk. There are just different levels of risk, one, two, three, four. We're at three right now. But certainly, four is not out of the question, as all of this rainfall comes down.

Not just this week but also next week as well with heavy rainfall day after day after day. There was a computer simulation of what the computer believes the rainfall will look like. All the way through the south, right in here, where all of these people will be outside, a flash flood will probably be likely.

NOBILO: Talks of the American debt ceiling keep dragging out as the U.S. inches closer to default. A meeting between the White House and Congressional leaders that was supposed to happen later today is now on hold. But there are a few glimmers of progress in the negotiations. CNN's Jeremy Diamond picks up this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: While a meeting between President Biden and the Congressional leaders scheduled for Friday to continue those debt ceiling and spending negotiations has been called off. This comes after staffers for both sides met once again on Thursday for more than two hours and sources tell me that the meeting was actually productive. And that the two sides ultimately agreed that it would be more productive to postpone that leaders meeting and to try to make more progress at the stuff level first.

So, sources on both sides saying that this is actually a sign of progress, a positive development in the words of one source.

[04:10:00]

This comes as those early-stage negotiations, I'm told, that are really focused on trying to narrow the scope of these negotiations. They're trying to agree on the broad contours of where they can actually reach an agreement on spending that would also result in the debt ceiling being raised. And as part of those negotiations, those early-stage negotiations, I'm told by two sources familiar with the matter, that the White House has been laying out its red line saying where they will not negotiate. And at the very top of that list is the president Inflation Reduction Act, that landmark piece of legislation that made historic investments in climate change. It's also a piece of legislation that House Republicans in their bill to raise the debt ceiling have already targeted for severe cuts.

The other items on the list include the president student debt forgiveness program, cuts to Medicaid or SNAP benefits. All of, those I'm told the White House views as total non starters.

But at the same time, there is growing economic inside the West Wing, though the White House is going to have to agree to some spending cuts in order to get the debt ceiling raised. There is a willingness even to agree to some caps on a future federal spending. But the sources tell me that the White House is not interested in a long-term spending cap seal for ten years, for example, which is what happened back in 2011.

But the White House really wants to ensure that they don't find themselves in the same position once again a year from now. And that's why I am told by sources that the White House is only looking for a dead ceiling increase that would last for over a year.

But what's interesting here is that President Biden is still insisting that he's not willing to negotiate over the debt ceiling. And yet at this time, there are these very intense negotiations between staff here at the White House, and Republican Congressional negotiators to talk about spending. And that's ultimately where there could be some kind of agreement to potentially avoid that default that could come as early as June 1st. But, of course in this situation, time is certainly of the essence.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Even though the clock is ticking the two sides remain far apart and the Republican House Speaker took a swipe at the White House on Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA) U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: The staff has met the last two days we think it's productive for the staff to meet again. I have not seen from there, a seriousness of the White House, that they want a deal. It seems like they want a default more than they want a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Former President, Donald Trump is appealing the 5-million- dollar judgment awarded to writer E. Jean Carroll. In her civil case against him for sexual assault and defamation. A Manhattan federal jury found Trump liable on both claims earlier this week. On Thursday, Trump lawyers filed a notice of appeal hours after the judge filed a written ruling endorsing the verdict and ordering Trump to pay the full sum awarded to Carroll.

Several Republican Congress members are distancing themselves from the comments made by the former president at his town hall on Wednesday. Trump made a variety of calls or unsubstantiated claims about the 2020 election, the riot at the U.S. Capitol, abortion, the case filed against him by E. Jean Carroll and other matters. CNN chief Congressional correspondent Manu Raju has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now Donald Trump's comment at CNN's Town Hall prompted a wide range of reaction, including some very sharp criticism from members of Donald Trump's own party. Particularly in the United States Senate. Them reacting to Trump not calling Vladimir Putin a war criminal. Not picking sides in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. Suggesting that he might pardon January 6th prisoners. Calling January 6th, a beautiful day. And also suggesting that it might make sense for the United States to default if Republicans don't get their way on the spending cuts, as part of the negotiations to the national debt limit.

In talking to a Republican Senator, after Republican Senator and a number of them are pushing back.

SEN. TODD YOUNG (R-IN): President Trump's judgment is wrong in this case, President Putin and his government have engaged in was crimes.

RAJU: I mean, does it were you that your party's leading presidential --

TODD: Of course, it does that's why I don't intend to support him, in the Republican nomination.

SEN. LINDSAY GRAHAM (R-SC): Were I differ from President Trump is, if we end this war and Putin is still standing, he's unaccountable for the war crimes, you don't end the war you just create more conflict.

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I think people saw last night what they would get with another term of Donald Trump as president. Which is a completely untethered to the truth, uncertain as to whether he wants Russia or Ukraine to win in the brutal conflict with Russia has imposed on Ukraine. I think that it was a great opportunity for the people of America to see just exactly who it is Donald Trump has become.

RAJU: Speaker Kevin McCarthy did not respond to many questions about Donald Trump over the course on the day on Thursday. But at the press conference in the evening, I asked them about Trump's not taking a position on Russia versus Ukraine and not calling Putin a war criminal.

[04:15:00] I asked him are you comfortable that your party's leading presidential candidate not taking a position on these key issues. He did not weigh in on Trump directly, but also went on to criticize Vladimir Putin and contented that their position is different that Trump's position without mentioning Trump by name.

I later asked the Speaker also, are you comfortable with Trump suggesting that he may pardon many January 6th prisoners? He would not go that far either.

A lot of Republicans also declined to weigh in, including one potential rival, Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, telling me he did not want to do any hallway interviews.

Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Ukraine's military gets a shot in the arm ahead of its expected counteroffensive.

Still ahead, a high-tech weapon from Britain. It's the first of its kind for the Ukrainian military arsenal.

Months after the U.S. shot down an alleged Chinese spy balloon, the two superpowers are talking again. But why now? And what came out of this meeting? We're live in Hong Kong.

And, later, an official investigation is underway in Italy and it is all about pasta. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:20:04]

NOBILO: Britain is breaking an unwritten taboo in military supplies to Ukraine. The U.K. has provided Kyiv with its first long-range missiles, known as "Storm Shadow." Other countries have refused to send similar weapons because of fear that Ukraine could go after targets inside Russia.

It's happening as Ukraine reportedly works to smooth the way for its upcoming counteroffensive. And as the leader of the Wagner mercenaries, invites Russia's defense minister to take a firsthand look at the situation in the besieged Ukraine city of Bakhmut.

Scott McLean is keeping track of all of these developments. Scott, has the U.K. government asked for guarantees from Ukraine that they won't strike outside of their sovereign territory with these new Storm Shadow missiles?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, according to Western officials, the short answer to that question is yes, because this is obviously one of the main concerns. But this is actually a promise that was made by British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak earlier this year to provide longer range missile systems to Ukraine. So, they've got this system now, multiple of it. A cruise missile called Storm Shadow. And the Defense Minister Ben Wallace said this about it in the House of Commons, yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WALLACE, BRITISH DEFENSE SECRETARY: Storm Shadow is a long-range conventional only precision strike capability. It complements the long-range systems already gifted, including HIMARS and harpoon missiles, as well as Ukraine's own Neptune cruise missile and longer- range missions elsewhere gifted.

The donation of these weapon systems gives Ukraine the best chance to defend themselves against Russia's continued brutality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: So, this is a weapon that is typically fired from an aircraft. It flies at a very low altitude which makes it hard for air defense systems to shoot it down and to detected it. It also uses a computer system on board just to try to really pinpoint its location, making it quite accurate. And the range that we're talking here is about 250 kilometers. And so obviously, this gives the Ukrainians the capability to strike inside of Russian territory. Not just Russian held territory, but as you mentioned, also Russia itself. Which the worry from the West has always been could this escalate the war in some way?

And the response from the, Russians already has been rather cryptic. This will require an adequate response from our military.

The other question here is, will other Western allies follow suit? Because we saw with HIMARS. We saw it with air defense distance. We saw it with tanks most recently where one country stands up and, says, yes, we'll provide this to Ukraine. And then suddenly all of these other Western allies, which up until then, have been reluctant. Weeks and months later tend to follow suit.

And so, we have seen though, that the U.S. has been quite reluctant. They say that the Ukrainians don't need them at this point. But will this kind of snowball? Because right now the longest-range weapon that the U.S. is providing Ukraine, has a range of give or take only about 75 kilometers or so.

NOBILO: And what do we know about this invitation from Yevgeny Prigozhin to the Russian defense minister?

MCLEAN: Yes, so this is sort of an internal back-and-forth within Russia with the Wagner military contractor and of course the Russian military, Russian troop proper. And a war of words that has been going on there. So, essentially the Wagner chief has acknowledged that the Ukrainians have made inroads in the Bakhmut area. We just heard from the deputy defense minister, on the Ukrainian side that they gained about two kilometers of territory in just the past week or so.

Now Wagner has blamed Russian regular troops for the losses on the flanks of the Bakhmut area. This town which has been fought over for months and months in an extremely bloody, costly battle. The Ukrainians though say that it's not the Wagner troops that are the ones standing up and fighting, it's the regular Russian troops that are doing that. And it's Wagner that's retreating.

So, now we have the head of Wagner inviting the Russian Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, to come and see for himself, to try and settled this score. Whether that'll happen though is sort of anyone's guess. The Russians have a lot to worry about right now in Bakhmut with this sort of counteroffensive -- whether it started or not seems to be heating up.

NOBILO: It's interesting to see that internal propaganda war within Russia develop. Scott McLean, thank you so much.

The Biden administration is looking for a new way to entice Moscow to release two Americans it considers to be wrongfully detained in Russia. As the U.S. does not have any high-level Russian spies in custody right, they're having to turn to allies for help. Kylie Atwood has this exclusive story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: As U.S. officials are trying to gin up an offer to Russia that can potentially secure the release of Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan. Two Americans wrongfully detained in Russia.

We know that U.S. officials outreach extends to countries including Germany, Norway, Brazil, and a former Soviet bloc country. As they those countries that have recently arrested Russian spies.

[04:25:00]

And the key here is countries that have Russian spies. Because the United States does not currently have a high-level Russian spy in its custody. And when you talk to U.S. officials in their engagements with Russia over efforts to try and secure the release of Paul Whelan, Russia made it very clear that they expect to get someone in return who is part of Russia's intelligence gathering apparatus. They want a Russian spy in return for the release of Paul Whelan. Because they are considering him as a spy. The same is true for Evan Gershkovich.

U.S. officials expect that they're going to have to offer up someone on the table who Russians view in the similar bucket. And when it comes to these efforts, they're also extending to countries that are U.S. allies that don't necessarily have Russian spies but could potentially offer something up to the U.S. to be used as leverage at the negotiation table. Again, to gin up interests on Russia's side to engage in some sort of deal to try to get out these two Americans who remain wrongfully detained in Russia.

Kylie Atwood, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: In a highly unusual move, the U.S. Ambassador to South Africa has publicly accused the government of delivering arms and ammunition to Russia. He says weapons were loaded on to the sanctioned Russia cargo ship late last year at the South African naval base.

Joining us now for more on this from Johannesburg is CNN senior international correspondent, David McKenzie. David, since the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine back in February 2022, South Africa has claimed that it's underlined, its neutral in this. America's Ambassador to South Africa essentially saying that's not true.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that's a very good point. And I don't think this is an individual incident that the Americans are now coming out publicly on. But a series of standpoints, public occurrences and instances that have boiled up in frustration from the U.S. government point of view. Making this kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. The ambassador accusing South Africa of covertly placing arms and ammunitions on their sanctioned vessel, the cargo ship, the Russia R in December last year. The Lady R, excuse me, in Simon's Town, a naval port.

Now eyewitnesses and members of parliament of the opposition at the time said there was nighttime operations to get goods off and back on to that cargo ship. They even switched off the transponder, the South African. Saying that they were already in discussions with the U.S. government about these accusations. And they say they still have not seen proof of this allegation.

NOBILO: And what could the consequences be for South Africa of this claim.

MCKENZIE: I think the initial consequences are the comments from the ambassador, which in many ways are deeply embarrassing to have an ambassador very forcefully accusing his host nation of basically enabling the Russian invasion or assisting it in Ukraine. I think there are longer term consequences at play. And I don't think the timing of this announcement is at all coincidental.

The U.S. and South Africa and other countries are in discussion to extend a go at a critically important trade deal that allowed South African businesses to have preferential treatment and tariff free exports to the U.S. That is worth hundreds of millions if not more dollars to South Africa, and it pales in comparison to the importance of Russia in the trade links to this country.

That is up for renewal. There also could be a possibility that Congress steps in and uses their own means to punish South Africa over these continued allegations that they are siding with Russia. For South Africa's part, they continue to maintain their neutrality, despite the growing body of evidence that they may not be -- Bianca.

NOBILO: And this is fascinating, to obviously happening within the context of South Africa being torn between the U.S. and the EU is huge trading partners. But also, the increased significance of Russia and China. David McKenzie, thank you so much for joining us.

Elon Musk says that he's found a new Twitter CEO. What we know about the mysterious appointment, coming up ahead. And the only suspect in the disappearance of American teen Natalee

Holloway, is set to be extradited to the U.S. But now his lawyers say he won't go quietly.