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Zelensky, Other Officials Said to Plot Attacks Inside Russia; President Zelenskyy Meets with Pope Francis at the Vatican; Border Cities See Smaller Migrant Surge Than Expected; El Paso Church Helps to Shelter and Feed Migrants. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 13, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:52]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin in the Middle East where a ceasefire between Israel and Islamic jihad was supposed to go into effect an hour ago but a CNN producer on the ground says more rockets were fired toward Israel from Gaza after the agreed upon time. The IDF also continued blaring sirens warning of incoming fire for days now. We've seen attacks like ones that took place just yesterday but in the meantime, we want to switch over to news in Ukraine.

Ukraine's president and his desire to hit Russia on its home soil, citing recently leaked classified documents, "The Washington Post" says President Zelenskyy has suggested bold attacks behind closed doors including blowing up a pipeline and attempting to occupy Russian border villages to gain leverage over Moscow. In talks, the "Post" points out the meetings where Zelenskyy made suggestions happened months ago. Still, it says the Pentagon did not dispute the authenticity of the leaked materials.

This comes as Ukraine carried out what could be its second missile attack in 24 hours on the Russian-occupied Luhansk region. It's a section of Ukraine that's become a hub for Russian forces. Local authorities say at least six children were hurt in Friday's attack, and CNN's Sam Kiley joins us now from Ukraine.

Sam, this is an unusual target for the Ukrainians given how far away it is. What more are you learning?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we've seen as you rightly point out there, Jim, is to waves of attacks against Luhansk, which is the capital of one of these breakaway republics that tried to secede from Ukraine back in 2014 with the backing of the Kremlin. Now the Ukrainians have the capability to hit targets that far away. They have their own homemade cruise missiles and other rockets but they've also been supplied with storm shadow cruise missiles from the United Kingdom.

And these are very sophisticated, indeed, very much state of the art, designed to evade radar and also designed potentially to sow fear and discord in the ranks of the Russian forces and their proxies. And that is something we're beginning to see more and more of. We're seeing it in psychological operations using TikTok and other media. All sort of unverifiable posts suggesting frankly sometimes even ludicrous advances being made by Ukrainian troops ahead of any formal offensive.

And then you've got the real-life experiences of what Russian soldiers are now enduring in terms of a counter attack going in around Bakhmut, with the danger that the Russian mercenary organization that is in the center of that town right now is facing a potential of being surrounded. Again, that kind of operation, albeit just concentrated tactically, as part of a broader shaping operation to get inside the heads of Russian troops, to suggest to them that remaining in Ukraine is extremely dangerous because ultimately breaking the will power of the Russian soldier to do battle is what the Ukrainian really need to do if they're going to regain territory or even win this war -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. Sam, and to that end, we're also hearing reports of Ukraine beginning shaping operations for their long-awaited counteroffensive. What do we know about that?

KILEY: Well, we are seeing as I say some elements of this. They've been going on for some time. One shouldn't over exaggerate but if you just look at what President Zelenskyy said over the last week, just a few days ago, he said they weren't ready. There was quite a lot of other ducks to be put in a row -- my words, not his -- before they get involved in an offensive. Then today, he tells Italian newspaper editors and others in Rome that it's going to happen soon.

There are troop movements that have been reported. Some of it accurately. Some of it obviously inaccurately. All of this trying to get inside the heads of the Russian soldiers and then at the same time, you've got these longer-range attacks against oil depots, against logistics chains, in the past against aircraft in Crimea.

[17:05:11]

And then there are quite a lot of mysterious, inadvertent commerce attacks inside Russia itself, possibly partisan attacks, possibly conducted by Ukrainian special forces -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Sam Kiley, thank you very much for that report. We appreciate it.

President Zelenskyy is busy conducting diplomacy outside his home country this weekend. He's in Rome meeting with Italian leaders, and also held talks with Pope Francis.

CNN's Delia Gallagher has the details on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Pope Francis' meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is important because since the beginning of the war, Francis has tried to position himself as a mediator for peace. Just two weeks ago returning from Hungary, the Pope said that the Vatican has a peace process underway. He didn't give any further details on that and authorities in Kyiv and Moscow immediately said they were not aware of this plan.

But the Vatican has insisted that they are and so presumably that has been one of the focal points between the Pope and President Zelenskyy. The problem of course with the Vatican peace plan is that while the Pope and President Zelenskyy have a relatively good relationship, this is the first time they're meeting face-to-face since the beginning of the war, but they have had several phone conversations since the beginning of the war, the same cannot be said for Francis' relationship with Vladimir Putin.

He has not had any direct contact with the Russian president since the beginning of the war. So Francis has tried via the Russian Orthodox Church Patriarch Kirill who is a strong supporter of President Putin and the war, but that dialogue as well has stalled, although there was some sign of hope earlier in May when Patriarch Kirill sent the equivalent of his foreign minister for the Russian Orthodox Church to the Vatican to briefly greet Pope Francis.

Nonetheless, the meeting with President Zelenskyy for Pope Francis, I think there is no expectation on the Pope's part that there will be some kind of immediate result from this meeting. However, it is a sign of the Pope's willingness to be available as a mediator, and to try to offer as it were a safe space at the Vatican for dialogue and certainly implicit in that is the hope that eventually, however remote it may seem at the moment, Russia will also want to join that conversation.

Delia Gallagher, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: All right. Let's go now to CNN military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

General, great to see you. Let's start with this latest reporting from "The Washington Post." Attempting to occupy Russian border villages to gain leverage over Moscow would be bold to say the least. What do you make of what we're hearing from "The Washington Post" that Zelenskyy has apparently discussed according to some of these leaked documents that have been in the news recently, Zelenskyy has discussed some of these kinds of ideas. What do you make of that?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Jim. I don't make too much of it to be honest with you. He has a very tough offensive coming up. He's going to put a lot of conventional forces as well as special operations forces on the ground. Occupying villages inside of Russia would certainly not be part of my battle plan if I were facing some of the things that he has to face in terms of the Russian defenses.

It's going to be a tough fight. But as we know, some of those documents that were leaked from Mr. Teixeira had a lot of misdirection and misinformation in it. The Pentagon has not confirmed or denied these things and in other words, that's saying they don't put a whole lot of faith into them. But, truthfully, at the same time, if I were the president of a country under the stress that Mr. Zelenskyy is, I would be considering all sorts of unusual ideas trying to go after the enemy. But I don't think occupying Russian territory would be in his favor.

ACOSTA: Just to follow up on that, I mean, just to get to the point you were just mentioning a few moments ago, I guess it perhaps does speak to perhaps some of the -- I don't want to say desperation, but urgency on Zelenskyy's part to get Russia's attention. To try to turn the tide in some sort of way.

HERTLING: Yes, but I don't think this is going to do it, Jim. You know, he is conducting operations in a variety of ways. You know, Sam mentioned shaping operations, shaping through definition, military doctrinal definition means anything from looking at intelligence all the way to attacking headquarters or fuel dumps. Zelenskyy has been doing that in preparation for this attack over the last six or seven months, and in fact I'd suggest his generals, General (INAUDIBLE), has probably been doing it longer than that in anticipation of long-range planning.

And as a military commander, you're always looking to conduct deep strikes to intercept anything the enemy is going to do in the long term.

[17:10:04]

But these are the kind of things that I'm not sure would pay that much. It would not give that much of bang for the buck in terms of conducting those kind of operations when he has a whole lot of other things to focus on to regain sovereign territory within Ukraine.

ACOSTA: And there's also the latest missile strikes in Luhansk. This is a rare target from Ukraine since it's so far away. What do these strikes tell you about their tactics?

HERTLING: Well, that was actually a great strike in my opinion because it takes advantage of the unique capabilities of those missiles that the U.K. has given Ukraine recently. Those missiles fly map of the earth so they're close to the ground and they can actually fly along the contour intervals because they are somewhat of a cruise missile. So when you're talking about striking the kinds of targets inside of Ukraine, inside Ukraine's sovereign territory like Luhansk, a great opportunity to strike those and actually affect Russian capabilities.

Very different than what ballistic missiles like the ATACAMS can do. The ATACAMS just go straight up as a ballistic missile, hit a target with a GPS, and they can be intercepted or jammed. The storm shadow missiles cannot. Cannot have that happen to them. So it's a great technique to use those on the kinds of target that President Zelenskyy has been trying to attack to interfere with Russian activities.

ACOSTA: And let me ask you about the fighting in Bakhmut after months of what felt like a stalemate. The Ukrainians finally began some significant ground this week. The head of the Wagner Group said this is the Ukrainian counteroffensive that we've heard so much about. Do you agree with that? What do you make of that? HERTLING: No, not at all. Mr. Prigozhin saying that this is part of

the counteroffensive or a major part of the counteroffensive, counterattack is because he's concerned about what he wasn't able to accomplish in Bakhmut. What is happening is those Russian forces, those Wagner Group forces are pulling back and making continued tactical errors, and Ukraine is taking advantage of it.

Now, that could be considered a shaping operation. It's continuing to force Russia to pour more manpower into that area. But I think what we're talking about with a counteroffensive is not going to be focused on Bakhmut or even the area around it. It's going to be -- in my view, it's going to be in some other areas and it's going to be much larger.

But certainly the opportunity Ukraine took to counter the pullback or the withdrawal of the Wagner Group in that area after the four months of fighting that they've had there is going to contribute to the capability of Ukraine to push the offensive even more than they had already planned. So this is probably a good secondary effort. I would suggest that the primary effort of Ukraine is going to come in other places.

ACOSTA: All right, General Mark Hertling, thanks so much for those insights. As always, we appreciate it.

HERTLING: You're welcome, Jim. Call your mother tomorrow.

ACOSTA: I will. All right. We all will. Thanks so much.

In the meantime, rockets are being fired from Gaza towards Israel minutes after an agreed to ceasefire was supposed to begin. We'll have the very latest coming up. Plus, officials warn there could be a spike in border arrests and overcrowding at the U.S.-Mexico border. So what's it like there right now? We're live in El Paso.

And later, what's next for an ex-Marine now charged with manslaughter in connection with the chokehold death of a homeless man in New York City. We'll talk about it coming up in just a little bit.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:47]

ACOSTA: Crisis avoided or at least delayed for now. This is one view of the southern border from the Mexican side just south of El Paso, Texas. Some border communities say they have not yet seen the massive migrant surge that many were expecting. That's despite the end of Title 42, the pandemic-era policy that allowed for the quick expulsion of migrants at the border. The long lines of people waiting to enter the U.S. had waned significantly.

The Biden administration is vowing tougher consequences for migrants who try to enter illegally. And CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now from El Paso.

Polo, where do things stand right now in terms of these numbers?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it depends on exactly what numbers you're looking at, Jim. To be clear, there is still, according to this, you know, CBP officials, overcrowding that's happening at these processing facilities where many of these asylum seekers have to be processed before authorities decide if they would be expelled or if they're allowed to be released and allowed to travel throughout the United States, subject to the final outcome of their proceedings.

Those numbers are certainly high. In fact, the average custody count, about 23,000 people. So that is certainly still concerning. But then you also have the other figure, which is the daily encounters which is averaging in the last several days about 9,000 which is far below the 13,000 to 14,000 that have been initially predicted. So as we heard from one DHS official say yesterday that it's certainly less chaotic than what was expected.

So what this opportunity is now is for DHS officials to process those people in custody in order to be able to accommodate any potential increase. And when you look at some recent court filings, that DHS official says that there is potential for that 9,000 figure, the daily encounters, to go up to 14,000 and that could have trickle down effects in terms of the number of people that are processed and then of course released, and that would certainly affect some of the shelter systems here.

We are speaking to one official at one facility that's offering sheltering opportunities to some of these asylum seekers, and he characterized the situation right now as manageable, but of course that certainly could change at any moment. But the number that is certainly going to continue to rise is the asylum seeker arrivals in cities like Denver, Los Angeles and then of course New York.

After speaking to some of these asylum seekers, Jim, these are some of the top destinations for these asylum seekers after they're released and then of course they wait out their proceedings in those cities.

[17:20:07]

ACOSTA: All right. Polo Sandoval, thank you very much. Keep us posted of how things are going. We appreciate it.

Let's welcome Father Rafael Garcia, he is the pastor at Sacred Heart Church in El Paso, Texas.

Father, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. What is your community seeing since Title 42 expired and what do you make of what Polo Sandoval was telling us just a few moments ago, and what we've been hearing throughout the day that the numbers are not quite what were anticipated and expected. Maybe they're going to come in a day or two from now. Who knows. But it's just not the numbers that we're anticipating.

FR. RAFAEL GARCIA, PASTOR, SACRED HEART CHURCH IN EL PASO, TEXAS: Yes, thanks for having me. Very true. The numbers have really gone down. The reason, I'm not totally sure. Maybe it's the fear of Title 8 coming into place, some of the effects of that. I don't have answers but the fact is that around our church and even within our shelter, our numbers have gone down and we've got to open, taking it day by day. Everyday there's also CBP process persons that are released. So we are -- our shelter is probably going to be helping them. So it's really a day at a time that these things constantly fluctuating and changing.

ACOSTA: And we know your church has plenty of ties to the other side of the border. You know, one of the things we don't talk about enough is, you know, what is driving all of these migrants to come to the border, to try to come to the U.S. unlawfully in many cases? When you talk to people who just arrived, what do they say? What are they telling you? Is there a common theme? Is it a lot of different explanations? What are you hearing?

GARCIA: It's mainly our -- the majority of our people we've been serving are from Venezuela and the situation in Venezuela is really horrible. The salary is about the equivalent of $5 to $10 a month, so you can imagine what that must be like to try to survive. The fact that they embarked on this journey to come through the Darien Pass in the southern Panama. They also described the passage with Mexico as very dangerous and some have been kidnapped, some have been harassed in different ways.

And so it's not an easy decision I'm sure for them to come, but they all -- what they express is they cannot survive back home and they want to come. Their desire really typically from everybody to say I want to work. I want to be able to start a new life. I want to send money back to my family that's still in Venezuela. So that's pretty much the common theme. We have people from other countries as well, but 90 plus percent are from Venezuela.

ACOSTA: Wow. That's remarkable. That so many are coming from Venezuela. And are the people that you're helping, are they getting the information they need to go through the process once they arrive at the border? Are you finding that there's a lot of misinformation out there? That they've been given the wrong information? What's your sense of that?

GARCIA: Last Tuesday was an effort by the CBP and the authorities to provide information saying that people who are here in an unauthorized way, they could go and turn themselves in. They did. There was actually a long line at the CBP office close to here. And many came out with their documents and they were very happy.

I think the amount of misinformation has come down as far as the importance of trying to turn yourselves in. Now that fear of (INAUDIBLE) for turning yourself in I believe is over so maybe the numbers have gone down because people are still on the Mexican side don't know all the effects of Title 8. So there's just a lot of moving parts but I don't find that much misinformation. 90 plus, almost everyone that we continue with in recent times on our shelter, which has a capacity of about 120, 130, they've all been processed, they are waiting to move on.

So the landscape really has changed a lot in recent times. People have been more processed and they want to move on. So we'll see. But the flow of people has certainly gone down in the past two, three days.

ACOSTA: And when they arrive, what are their conditions like? What are you running into? Are you finding exhaustion? People with very serious medical issues? I mean, that journey I know is just -- it can be horrendous. What are you finding?

GARCIA: Yes, it's a real mixture. You know, many happen in Juarez for a while. Some people that we've seen have also been in detention, here on the U.S. side for a while. So it's not like they're coming right off of the train but some were in the past. And some people had just gotten off the train recently. Many came with physical injuries. And so we would have to often either call 911 or take them to the emergency room.

[17:25:01]

We've had also pregnant women, mothers, which is to me is just mindboggling and very sad to see what that must be like to be in your third trimester of pregnancy with other children and going through all of this, through Mexico and through the Darien Pass previously. So it's a real crisis. It's a real human crisis.

But again, I emphasize that to embark on this journey, just people know. I mean, they're using WhatsApp all the time. I think I know they communicate back and forth. To do this, it must be a real serious need to say I have to leave my country. I can no longer be there. So that has to be taken into account for people who may not really understand.

People I talk to, they're not saying I come here to the U.S. to take advantage. No. No. Most of them, some of them are professionals. Some have had their small businesses. They would have stayed in Venezuela. From what I could tell they were fine, they were successful until all the situation happened. Of course, it's also a leftist dictatorship so there's repercussions. People are being watched and there's just a variety of things. Economic factors, also. The government harassment and oppression.

ACOSTA: Yes, it's a very desperate situation in Venezuela. It's an issue we don't pay enough attention to and lot to do more of that.

Father Rafael Garcia, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

GARCIA: Thank you. Appreciate it.

ACOSTA: All right. Still ahead, guilty verdicts in the case of an Idaho mother who killed her children and conspired to kill her husband's first wife. The role her doomsday cult and beliefs had in the trial. We'll talk about that coming up.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:54] ACOSTA: An Idaho mother faces life in prison after a bizarre murder trial that involved the deaths of her two children, a plan to kill her husband's ex-wife and doomsday driven religious beliefs.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins us now.

Camila, what a strange case. What did prosecutors say about the doomsday beliefs?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is a strange case, Jim. And prosecutors said that Lori Vallow Daybell and her husband believed they were religious figures so they would use this ratings system to put people in either the light category or the dark category.

And so prosecutors were saying they used this to justify and encourage the killing of these children and the jury here agreed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BREED: Answer, guilty. Answer, guilty.

BERNAL (voice-over): Lori Vallow Daybell stood almost motionless as one guilty verdict after another was announced. She was found guilty on all murder, conspiracy, and grand theft charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the court find in a unanimous verdict.

BERNAL: The jury's decision closes the book on the monthlong trial for the Idaho mother who prosecutors say was motivated by money, power, and sex to kill her two children and conspire to kill her husband's wife at the time.

And while she decided not to testify, her lawyers argued she was innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Listen, just tell people what is happening. There's people around the country praying for your children.

BERNAL: The harrowing case, which involves a tangled web of family deaths and doomsday religious beliefs, began in September of 2019 when two of Vallow Daybell's children from a previous marriage, 16-year-old Tylee Ryan and 7-year-old Joshua, or J.J., were last seen.

Shortly afterwards, she married Chad Daybell, whose wife died in her sleep just weeks before Chad and Lori's wedding in Hawaii.

When authorities conducted a welfare check on J.J. in November of 2019, police say Vallow Daybell told them her son was with a friend in Arizona. They returned the next day with a search warrant, only to find the couple had vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just tell us where your kids are.

BERNAL: The couple was located in Hawaii in January of 2020. But J.J. and Tylee's whereabouts remained a mystery. After a months-long search, law enforcement located the remains of the

children at Chad Daybell's property in southeast Idaho.

GARY HAGEN, ASSISTANT CHIEF, REXBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT: Chad Daybell, who resides at that residence, has also been taken into custody.

BERNAL: Daybell and Vallow Daybell were ultimately indicted for murder in May of 2021. Chad Daybell's trial is being held separately. He's pleaded not guilty.

(on camera): The couple's apocalyptic religious worldview was a focus throughout the trial. Prosecutors say they believed they were religious figures who used the system of rating people as light or dark.

CHARLES VALLOW, FORMER HUSBAND OF LORI VALLOW DAYBELL: I can't get in touch with my kids.

BERNAL (voice-over): But before the children went missing, Vallow Daybell's estranged husband, Charles, told police about her beliefs.

VALLOW: She thinks she's a resurrected being and a god.

BERNAL: He filed for divorce, but prosecutors say the Vallow Daybell's brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed Charles in July of 2019.

She's facing a conspiracy to commit murder charge in Arizona in connection with that killing. Cox died in December of 2019.

Hearing the verdict was emotional for many who followed this tragic case, but perhaps none more so than family.

LARRY WOODCOCK, GRANDFATHER OF VALLOW CHILDREN: J.J., I love you. Tylee, papa loves you.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERNAL (on camera): And the children's grandfather who you just heard from there, said he is going to be at the sentencing to ask Lori why and for what.

That sentencing is supposed to be in about three months and she could face life in prison.

[17:34:59]

But her story here isn't over despite the guilty verdict. She still has that one charge in Arizona that she has to face so this is not the last time that we'll be hearing of her -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Camila Bernal, thank you very much.

As Camila was just saying a few moments ago, the prosecuting attorney said in this trial it centered around theme of money, power, and sex.

Former federal prosecutor, Renato Mariotti, joins us. He also is the host of the "It's Complicated" podcast, which I suppose is fitting for this particular case.

What do you make of all this?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it is complicated, Jim. I have to say it's disturbing. It's the sort of case that's heartbreaking.

I can understand why jurors had difficulty looking at some of the photos in this case. Children who were murdered.

I think you know, of her legal team really should have counseled her to plead guilty much earlier.

And I would hope for everyone's sake including the family members, for example, who were grieving, that she tries to negotiate a resolution to this Arizona case so this can get wrapped up.

And frankly, I think he has to be -- the other defendant needs to be thinking about at plea as well.

ACOSTA: Let's talk about another big story. We've all been covering it. The Marine veteran accused of second-degree manslaughter for the choke-hold death of a homeless man on the New York City subway.

He turned himself in to police yesterday. The case has received so much attention. As you know, there's been New York City protests and the video of the choke hold has been circulating online. We've all seen it.

Do you think that may have led to the prosecution? What do you think? Did public pressure have a part in this?

MARIOTTI: It very well may have. Obviously, has gotten a lot of attention on both sides. There's people calling him a good Samaritan. I don't understand that. A good Samaritan, at least in the Bible, wasn't killing people.

But on the other hand, there were people calling for the charges.

I really think, Jim, there's a very real possibility that, even if he is convicted, the sentence would not be very severe.

But what that case really comes down are a couple of things. One, what does the jury believe about what passengers on that -- in that car at that time understood and perceived. And what did he perceive, the defendant perceive about a threat.

Secondly, what was the measure of force that was being applied there. Obviously, you know, the defendant took his life and a jury is going to take that very seriously.

The fact there's all this publicity is going to be put to the side by a jury and they're going the be faced with a man's death.

ACOSTA: Renato, I know you'll remember this case. Let's talk about it. The high-profile case involving the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

Joran van der Sloot, is coming back to the United States to face extortion and fraud charges. Those against Holloway's mother who wired thousands of dollars for the location of her remains.

What do you make of this? Might this family get justice in this?

MARIOTTI: Yes, it is remarkable. This is a case, by the way, which Mr. van der Sloot essentially told the mother and victim that he knew where the body was and he could present that to her and then gave her false hope.

It's a very cruel thing. And so there is some measure of justice for the family.

I have to say kudos to the prosecutors and law enforcement who spent quite a bit of time putting this case together, working on extradition.

I've worked on extradition. It's often very difficult. It Takes a number of years to complete.

So this is definitely a victory for the family who gets to see this man in a courtroom and will get their day in court.

And even if the sentence isn't what they want or if the conviction isn't for her death -- it can never bring their daughter back -- it's got to give them a sense of justice.

ACOSTA: All right. Renato Mariotti, thank you so much. Good talking to you as always. Appreciate it.

MARIOTTI: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: More talks are reportedly happening this weekend between negotiators at the White House and Congress who are trying to work out a deal to avoid a debt disaster. What President Biden is saying about it today. That's coming up next.

[17:40:00]

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: We heard some guarded optimism today from President Biden over the debt ceiling stalemate. In an early morning tweet, he also warned that default would erase millions of dogs, trigger a recession, hit retirement accounts. And it would increase borrowing costs.

"It's not an option," Mr. Biden continued as negotiations continue.

We get the latest from CNN's Alayna Treene.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jim, for the fourth straight day, negotiations are continuing among senior staff and the White House as they continue to try to hash out a deal to raise the debt limit.

These talks are occurring after the meeting between the top four congressional leaders and the president was postponed on Friday as they struggle to find a path forward.

These negotiations really began in earnest this past week. And normally, a deal like this takes months to come together. But Congress doesn't have months to do this.

[17:44:59]

We are less than 20 days away from June 1st. That's the deadline the Treasury Department has set for when the government could default on its debt.

The Congressional Budget Office released a report Friday, backing up the Treasury Department's report, saying a default will likely happen within the first two weeks of June.

We heard from President Joe Biden on this, this afternoon. He said negotiations are moving along and we should know more in the next few days.

Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) talks, Mr. President?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we'll know more in the next few days.

You asked me something else?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yes. How are talks (INAUDIBLE). There's been some discussion but we're not there yet.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Jim, the will to do this is there and neither side wants to see the government default on its debt. But the very short timeline has led to anxiety among leaders on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

I'm told that the staff-level talks have yielded modest progress. They've begun to pinpoint certain policies they can have common ground on. And spending cuts.

Now the spending cuts issue is something the White House has said they want to avoid in a deal. But increasingly, I'm told, the people within the West Wing are beginning to recognize it's something they might have to cave on. We're going to see the talks continue throughout the week and next

week, but they need to have a bill in hand in order to get a bill through Congress on June 1st.

Remember, Congress moves very slowly. And once they have a deal, they still need to draft a bill, sell it to the House and Senate and try to get enough support to pass it.

That is a huge obstacle to overcome but there's hope they can get this done on time.

ACOSTA: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

Crime, drugs and unaffordability. That's some of the recent headlines coming out of San Francisco. What's really going on? We'll get a preview of this weekend's whole story with Sara Sidner. There she is. We'll talk to her in a few moments.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:51:37]

ACOSTA: San Francisco, a city that has been in the headlines for crime, unaffordability, and its street conditions. According to one recent survey, San Francisco residents feel less safe now than at any point since 1996. That's according to the city's own controller's office.

This week, on "THE WHOLE STORY," with Anderson Cooper, CNN's Sara Sidner heads to the bay area, a place she once called home, to find out "WHAT HAPPENED TO SAN FRANCISCO?"

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video of the guy wheeling his bicycle into the Walgreens in San Francisco loading up and then bicycling out went worldwide. The mass swarm robberies went worldwide.

(SIRENS)

SARA SIDNER, CNN "NEWS CENTRAL" ANCHOR: Even with some high-profile videos going viral, robberies and larceny, which is property theft without threat of violence, were both down in 2022 compared to pre- pandemic levels, according to San Francisco police data.

While the number of car break-ins was actually higher in 2017. Auto theft, though, did rise in 2022, the highest it has been in seven years.

I'll tell you the number one that I hear. The number one that I hear, it isn't -- it isn't necessarily violence.

MAYOR LONDON BREED (D-SAN FRANCISCO): It's theft.

SIDNER: It isn't because those relationships are -- it's the car break-ins.

BREED: The car break-ins.

SIDNER: By far, the thing people always say is like, if you go to the city, don't park your car here, there, or watch where you park.

BREED: Yes.

SIDNER (voice-over): How do you combat that?

BREED: Most people, unfortunately, in some capacity, feel like they either have been or know someone who has been a victim.

I mean, my car got broken into in front of my home. There was nothing in it, so that makes it worse. I don't have anything to steal because I know better, right?

But it's a tough thing, and we're going to keep working on it to combat it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining us to talk about her "WHOLE STORY" report on what happened to San Francisco is CNN anchor, Sara Sidner.

Sara, great to see you.

It's a great subject because we all love San Francisco. It's such a great city. I've got family out there, so I get out there a lot.

We hear a lot about the high-profile crimes in the city. You were talking about this in the taped piece there, about the crime rates and what the reality is in San Francisco. Can you tell us more about that?

SIDNER: Yes. You heard, that was the mayor herself saying, yes, we have a problem with certain things.

If you look at the numbers, when it comes to those high-profile crimes, homicides and the murders, we just saw -- made news across the nation, even the world, the killing death, stabbing death, if you will, of the cash app founder, Bob Lee.

And so a lot of people were talking about that and how dangerous the city is.

But when you look at homicides in particular, San Francisco's numbers are fairly low. About 56 people were killed in 2021 and in 2022, the same numbers there.

You look at a city of a similar size like Indianapolis, Indiana, that number was quadruple that. Or Jacksonville, Florida, three times the number of homicides.

The thing that has people most upset, though, Jim, and the thing that is correct is that things like assault cases ticked up just a bit, and things like break-ins. [17:54:57]

People see this day in and day out. You hear it from your friends. You hear it from your family. You hear it from those visitors who come into the city and tourists who come into the city that their cars keep getting broken into.

Or people are being bumped into in the streets and come face to face with an open-air drug market. They see some aggressive behavior by people who are dealing with mental health issues.

And so it's in your face in a different way. But when it comes to homicides, when it comes to murders, San Francisco's numbers are actually very low -- Jim?

ACOSTA: That's interesting. So why are people feeling unsafe? What is it when you talk to residents? I know you talked to some.

SIDNER: We did. We talked to residents who were housed, we talked to residents who were unhoused, who lived and have lived on the streets for quite some time.

We talked to business owners, we talked to the mayor, we talked to the former mayor and several other people. Some moms whose kids ended up on drugs and they are frustrated with the availability of the drugs on the streets and the ability to use them.

And what we heard time and again was this idea that you cannot get away from it, no matter what place you live in in the city, which, by the way, is small seven by seven square miles.

So with Covid and with the -- lots of people working at home, you see the explosion of tents by the homeless population and a lot of drug use, and that's what has people so freaked out -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Sara Sidner, looking forward to it. Thank you so much.

Tune in to the all-new society of "THE WHOLE STORY with Anderson Cooper," one whole hour, one whole topic. It airs tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

And we'll be right back.

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