Return to Transcripts main page
U.S. And China Trade Accusations After Warships Nearly Collide In Taiwan Strait; Ukraine Military Urges Silence Ahead Of Expected Counteroffensive; Crews Clear, Repair Tracks After Deadly Accident; Tensions Spike after Enco9unter in Taiwan Strait; Controversial Migrant Flight; Migrants Promised Jobs, Shelter for Relocation; Nikki Haley Takes on Republican Frontrunners; Technology Challenges Intellectual Property Rights; One on One with Inter Milan's Romelu Lukaku. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired June 05, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. Appreciate your company. I'm Michael Holmes. Coming up here on the program. Tensions rising, the U.S. and China trade barbs after warships from the two countries narrowly avoid a collision in the Taiwan Strait.
Picking up the pieces as officials work to clear the sight of India's worst train disaster in decades grieving families still trying to find the bodies of their loved ones. Plus, Ukrainians urging silence around their upcoming counter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN Newsroom with Michael Holmes.
HOLMES: A close encounter in the Taiwan Strait is ratcheting up tensions and rhetoric between the U.S. and China. Have a look at this video. It shows that moment over the weekend when the U.S. Navy says a Chinese naval ship sailed in front of their destroyer causing the U.S. vessel to slow down to avoid a collision. The ships are said to have come within about 140 meters of each other.
Now this happened as the U.S. was taking part in a joint exercise with the Canadian Navy, a Canadian commander who witnessed it describes how dangerous that encounter could have been.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MOUNTFORD, HMCS MONTREAL COMMANDER: Maneuvering close to each other 150 yards is very scary. And you don't ever want to be that close to another vessel because too many things can go wrong and you can actually have a collision.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: China's defense minister is accusing the U.S. of staging provocations and trying to destabilize the region. His criticism of the U.S. coming during a security summit in Singapore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LI SHANGFU, CHINESE DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): They're not here for innocent passage. They're here for provocation. Why did all those incidents happen in areas near China not in areas other countries?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: CNN's Kristie Lu Stout following developments joins me now from Hong Kong with the latest. You've got the U.S. and China sparring in Singapore and then sparring between warships at sea. What's being done to cool tensions?
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this U.S.-China attention was front and center this last weekend in Singapore, Asia's largest defense forum. And in the Taiwan Strait. In fact, it was on Saturday when these two warships from China and the U.S. were involved in this near collision and now we have new video of this close encounter.
Let's bring it up for you. Now what was happening here again on Saturday was the U.S. and ally Canada were staging this routine transit through the Taiwan Strait when you see it there in vision right in front of Chinese ship cut in front of the U.S. warship. The U.S. military since the Chinese vessel came within only 150 yards or 137 meters of the U.S. destroyer in a quote unsafe manner. And that forced the U.S. ship to slow down to avoid a collision.
And hours after this close and Ghana took place, we heard from China's Defense Chief Li Shangfu, he was in Singapore for the security summit there. And he accused the U.S. in his speech of creating chaos in the region. And during a Q&A portion of his talk at that forum. He said this spring up the pick quote for you, the defense chief of China say in reference to the U.S. they are not here for innocent passage, they are here for provocation, unquote.
Now Li Shangfu also said that the U.S. and China in his speech should seek common ground and common interest. But remember earlier China rejected that offer from the Pentagon from its chief Lloyd Austin to meet in person at the summit citing sanctions on Chinese companies and individuals.
Now, Austin, when he spoke at the forum on Saturday, he expressed deep concern about the lack of high level military communication between these two powers. In his summit speech, he said this is bringing it up for you. For responsible leaders, the right time to talk is anytime the right time to talk is every time. The right time to talk is now. The U.S.-China relations, I mean this is during a time of peak tension right now.
The two are at loggerheads over a slew of issues from Taiwan to trade technology access to sensitive technology, territorial disputes in the South China Sea, the list goes on. But some engagement is happening. A U.S. official told CNN on Friday that the CIA Director Bill Burns secretly traveled to China last month to help bring about a reset in relations.
So that's just one area where engagement is taking place. Back to you.
HOLMES: It was speaking of talking. I mean, what sort of guidance do we have as to when or if the U.S. President Joe Biden might meet with Chinese leader Xi Jinping,
LU STOUT: We heard some interesting guidance from the White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, who spoke with CNN's Fareed Zakaria in GPS in an interview that aired on Sunday with Sullivan saying that Joe Biden, he was president, the Chinese leader Xi Jinping will meet quote, at some point, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We will, I hope soon see American officials engaging at senior levels with their Chinese counterparts over the coming months to continue that work. And then, at some point, we will see President Biden and President Xi come back together again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Now, efforts are underway to engage with dialogue in China. Sullivan himself he met with Chinese top diplomat Wang Yi, in May in Vienna for talks that were deemed constructive and candid. You also had last week the talks between the U.S. Commerce Secretary, the U.S. Trade Representative and China's commerce minister, but as for when Biden shear going to meet that remains an open question. Back to you.
HOLMES: I appreciate it. Kristie, thanks. Kristi Lu Stout there at Hong Kong for us.
For more I want to bring in Josh Rogin. He's a columnist for the Global Opinion section of the Washington Post where he covers foreign policy and national security. Josh, good to see you. Before we begin, I wanted to play a soundbite from the Chinese defense minister leaves on Thursday in Singapore. Let's have a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANGFU (though translator): We will never hesitate to defend our legitimate rights and interests, let alone sacrificing the nation's core interests. As the lyrics of a well-known Chinese song goes, when friends visit us, we welcome them with fine wine. When jackals or wolves come, we will face them with shotguns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Jackals, shotguns, what did you make of the rhetoric that we heard? I mean, they seem to be from the Chinese side particularly aggressive don't?
JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON PSOT: That's exactly right. I think General Li had two missions. One was to attack the United States and blame it for all the problems in the region. The other one was to appeal to the Southeast Asian nations and provide them with a Chinese alternative to the U.S. led rules based international order.
And the alternative that General Li laid out is actually a pretty appealing one. It's peace and stability and commerce and everything wonderful that you can imagine.
The problem, of course, is that and many of the Southeast Asian officials at the conference pointed this out that China's words and his actions don't match. And we saw a pretty striking example of that during the conference, as the Chinese general was preaching peace and stability. A Chinese warship almost rammed into a U.S. warship in the Taiwan Strait, an aggressive and unprovoked move.
So, you know, I think the Chinese general did his best to present a charm offensive and Singapore, unfortunately, I think enlarge it fell upon deaf ears.
HOLMES: Yes, yes, that near miss wasn't really very stabilizing. And of course, there's always the fear of unintended consequences. It's interesting when it comes to Taiwan the defense minister clearly stated the use of force is not excluded.
Given that sort of rhetoric, I mean, they've said that before, that the question is, what could trigger the Chinese to actually make a move on Taiwan in a military sense? Did you get any sense that the -- that rhetoric is ramping up to that sort of level?
ROGIN: Right. Well, you know, U.S. officials have stopped putting timelines on a possible Chinese invasion of Taiwan, because they don't think it's really helpful to say, but most of them believe that China will have the capability to invade Taiwan, although it hasn't made the decision to invade Taiwan by about 2027.
Now, what the Chinese defense minister said very clearly is China will reunify with Taiwan, whether you like it or not, and anyone who tries to get in the way we'll fight. And so that was a very aggressive message. He didn't put a timeline on it either. But he said it eventually will happen and that China reserves the right to use force to make it happen.
The question I think, from the audience was, well, if you're not going to use force, what are you doing to entice the Taiwanese? What are you doing to persuade them? What are your efforts towards a peaceful reunification because from Taiwan's perspective, it doesn't look like China is doing much at all to make the Taiwanese wants to rejoin so they're really leaving themselves no other option but to attack.
So again, I think this is where you see a very reasonable message coming from the Chinese, which is we want to peacefully re unify but a very aggressive posture which undermines that message and really scares the heck out of a lot of people in the region, including the Taiwanese.
When do you see the state of U.S.-China relations in the wake of all of this? I mean, it's a delicate dance, isn't it? Neither side wants to make concessions or even much in the way of direct overture, how does that increase the risk of stumbling into something that could lead down a dangerous path? How do you see the state of relations?
ROGIN: Well, I mean, it was pretty obvious by the fact that the Chinese defense minister refused to meet with the U.S. Defense Secretary, despite the fact that we're in the same room at the same time, that China is not ready to talk, at least not with the security officials. They want economic engagement, and they don't want to be pressed on any of their negative actions to the national security realm. And they're holding fast to that.
And I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to wait out the Biden administration. They're trying to pressure the Biden administration into making concessions. They're trying to use dialogue as a carrot as a thing that the Biden administration should chase.
ROGIN: Now, the Biden people know that, but they're still chasing it anyway. Because as you said, they don't want the relationship to get any worse. And that's where the stalemate lies neither side wants to give. But at the end of the day, talking is not a concession, talking is just the basic thing that two big countries should do. And right now, the Chinese don't want to do it.
HOLMES: Yes. And to that point, I mean, it's a deeply competitive relationship. But along with that, the conflict and competing geopolitical visions and so on, the two countries are deeply intertwined economically, aren't they? I mean, how does that mutual interest perhaps mitigate the serious differences in policy are at the moment anyway, they need each other?
ROGIN: Well, make no mistake, the economic warfare between the U.S. and China is ramping up fast. First, we had the U.S. side cut off China's supply of the highest level chips and semiconductors. That's a pretty aggressive move. Now we have the Chinese government going after U.S. businessmen and U.S. businesses inside China. So that's escalating.
So there's no just no doubt that both sides are looking not to decouple but to de risk to reduce their dependence on the other. And again, that's not what we want. We don't want economic warfare, but that's what we got. And I think the attitude amongst many in Washington is, well, if we're going to be in an economic war, we might as well win it. But right now that that win looks far from short.
HOLMES: Yes. Fascinating. Great analysis. As always, Josh Rogin, thanks so much.
ROGIN: Anytime. HOLMES: Nearly two dozen people were arrested in Hong Kong as crowds gathered to mock the 34th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The city once hosted the biggest vigils to remember the deadly event but recent restrictions by authorities have stifled dissent. One man who was being taken away described what he encountered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What happened to me I was sitting there reading a newspaper and holding a candle. They said that's not allowed, is it a crime?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Meanwhile, in Taiwan activists gathered for a vigil at Taipei's Liberty Square where they lit candles and placed flowers on a memorial. They also displayed a pillar of shame as they call it, to denounce the crackdown where hundreds if not thousands of protesters were killed by Chinese troops in 1989.
Police say they have found no survivors from a small plane that crashed in southwest Virginia on Sunday, and the search is on hold for now. The plane ventured near the U.S. Capitol before being -- before going down causing enough concern that fighter jets were sent to intercept it.
That sound was a sonic boom heard throughout the region caused by the F-16 scrambling overhead. Defense officials said they were unable to make contact with the plane's pilot before it crashed. We've now learned that it is registered to a company in Florida and there are reports that the company's owners lost family members in the crash. CNN's Natasha Bertrand with more from Washington.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER (on camera): A loud sonic boom that was hurt across Washington D.C. and Virginia on Sunday was caused by U.S. F-16 fighter jets that were scrambling to intercept an aircraft that traveled over Washington D.C. and was unresponsive according to a statement from the North American Aerospace Defense Command.
The fighter jets were called in in coordination with the FAA to try to intercept this aircraft where the pilot was not making contact with the F-16 fighter jets. Ultimately, the plane did crash in southwestern Virginia. However, the Defense Department says that the F-16 did not actually shoot down that aircraft.
Now, According to NORAD, which released the statement on Sunday, that aircraft did fly over Washington D.C. essentially violating the airspace and because the pilot was unresponsive. The FAA worked with the Pentagon in order to try to intercept this aircraft before it could potentially crash and cause any damage to civilians on the ground.
The civilian aircraft, according to NORAD was intercepted at approximately 3:20 p.m. Eastern Time. And according to the Pentagon, the plane crashed near the George Washington National Forest in Virginia. There were four people on board this small aircraft. However, we do not yet know the conditions of those people at this time. Natasha Bertrand, CNN, Washington.
HOLMES: Now after one of the deadliest strain accidents in India's history or authorities are working to reopen what are critical rail lines and to ensure such an accident doesn't happen again. Crews are toiling in extreme heat to clear and repair the tracks and they do hope to have some sort of normal service restored by Wednesday, at least 275 people were killed, more than 1,000 injured in the accident.
Authorities have said the immediate cause was a signal failure and blame the high speed of both passenger trains for the number of casualties. Even though search operations ended Sunday, some people are still trying to locate loved ones unsure if they have been killed or injured or simply unable to make contact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They're saying you will get to know at the hospital. I've been to all the hospitals and I found out nothing. Now I'm going to Bhubaneswar to find out. I just need my husband. I don't want anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Kamalika Sengupta is a reporter for CNN News18 joins me now from Balasore in India, it's good to see you. Just bring us up to date on the latest on the investigation into what happened and why.
KAMALIKA SENGUPTA, REPORTER, CNN NEWS18: The investigation started there are two investigations. Now, one investigation that has been initiated that day itself by CRC the commissioner of railway safety, he is doing an investigation. And apart from that also on Sunday evening, the investigation has been handed over to CBI which is an independent agency.
So, now there will be one investigation which is already there which has started which will -- which is the investigation is on ICRC. What CRC will be doing is started -- they started talking to the people, people out here, these people related to the railways and also they will notify in paper and then the witnesses will come and then that investigation will go in that direction.
On the other hand, there is a hunch and there is an apprehension by the railway ministry that it is not only human error, it is something more than that. So is this also a part of conspiracy? Has there been any human intervention in this biggest tragedy as you can see behind me is the track. So there, what the government has done government is the Railway Board has suggested to give this total investigation to CBI. Now, CBI officers will be coming and they will be generating an FIR and then the case will start. We would less like to show our viewers.
This is the truck behind me where this deadly accident took place as you can see that the bogies of the Coromandel Express. They are there. They have been grounded. They have been taken from the side from on -- from the track and the real line now the real traffic has come to normal as from today morning that is Monday morning.
The rails have started flying and all these lines, this phone lines this lines have started they are now back to normal. So, more than 150 trains were canceled. Now slowly and slowly the railway traffic that is becoming normal.
HOLMES: Very important for that part of India to the railways. Kamalika Sengupta, thank you so much. Appreciate the update.
Now, CNN Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson is also there in Balasore. He visited the hospital treating the injured and listen to stories of survival.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This Regional Hospital received hundreds of survivors of Friday night's terrible train derailment and we've been speaking with everybody in this particular room. Some people lost loved ones who were on board the train when the passenger cars started flipping and rolling.
This man was traveling alone. He's a 52-year-old farmer who suffered some spinal injuries. He is at least fortunate though in pain to be reunited with his family here while he starts to begin the difficult process of recovery.
And I spoke with a 15-year-old boy who was traveling with his mother and father and younger brother. Both brothers have serious head injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): People who were alive was shouting for help, praying to God. Rescue teams were doing their best to save people. A lot of people were crying.
WATSON: Outside the walls of this hospital there are hundreds of volunteers trying to offer support to the victims. But we've also met people who are still desperately searching for missing relatives.
Now the government is offering compensation to families of the dead as well as to people who were injured in the train crash. The government is also calling for an investigation and says it will bring to justice anybody who's responsible for this deadly catastrophe. But these measures will never be enough for somebody who has lost a loved one. Ivan Watson, CNN in Orisha (ph) state in eastern India.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: When we come back on CNN Newsroom, Ukraine making some moves on the battlefield, while keeping the bigger plans for its counteroffensive under wraps. Also, U.S. presidential contender Nikki Haley took on her main opponents, as she aim to show why she's the best candidate to represent Republicans in next year's election. We'll have highlights from Haley's Town Hall in Iowa when we come back.
HOLMES: Russia's Defense Ministry says it has thwarted a quote large scale Ukrainian offensive in the southern Donetsk region. Earlier, a Russian appointed official in occupied Zaporizhzhia claimed Ukrainian forces tried and failed to push through a vulnerable frontline area with tanks and armored vehicles.
Ukrainian officials, however, are refusing to comment. It is difficult to assess of course what might be an offensive as opposed to probing maneuvers and so on.
Now the Ukrainians are sending their own message meanwhile, posting this video on social media urging silence around the counteroffensive and saying Ukraine's military will not be announcing its plans ahead of time.
All of this coming after a deadly weekend in Ukraine rescue workers have recovered the body of a two-year-old girl from a destroyed building in the Dnipro Petrogez (ph) region. She was killed by Russian shelling on Saturday. 22 people were wounded in that attack, including five children.
In his nightly address, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy named each of those children and shared his rage over a gruesome new milestone in the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The Russian terror has claimed the lives of hundreds of our children and only since February 24. During the full scale war, we know for sure that 485 children have been killed. This is a number that we can officially confirmed knowing the data of each child.
Unfortunately, the real number is higher. Every time we liberate our land from the Russian occupiers, we learn the terrible truth about the occupation, about how many people, how many children are buried in the occupied territory in the graves of this war, this aggression, and how many more are still under the ruins in Ukrainian cities and villages burned by Russia.
(END VIDEO CIP)
HOLMES: Sam Kiley now with the latest from eastern Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Once again, if ever there was needed proof that the Russians were continuing to target civilians they've given it. This time with a missile strike by and the Iskander missile on a residential building close to the city of Dnipro, a two-year-old child was killed, 17 people going into local authorities were injured.
This just the latest of the civilian deaths that have hit this country after almost nightly missile attacks, Russian missile strikes. Once again renewing their calls for help from the international community with their air defenses, but similar calls are coming from authorities inside Russia in the border areas. Now they say under bombardment from Ukraine or from Ukrainian backed Russian dissidents who split into two different groups have attacked villages across a substantial stretch of territory.
Now, inside Russia, just across the northern border with Ukraine with the local authorities, they're saying over the last 10 days or so, at least seven civilians have been killed. 4,000 have had to been evacuated from a number of towns and villages where they've been burning buildings and a number of artillery strikes that they blame on the Ukrainians and the Russian dissidents have paraded a number of prisoners of war, at least to the people they claim to be prisoners of war, a Russian prisoners of war that they've offered today to exchange with the local governor if he agreed to meet them. He didn't make the rendezvous.
And so they've posted online, a commitment now to hand those prisoners of war over to the Ukrainian authorities. We've got no independent way of proving whether or not these men were prisoners of war. But we do know that these Russian dissidents are very fast on the draw when it comes to social media. And this is very much part of their campaign to try to spread the dissident message to try to spread ultimately, some kind of revolution against Vladimir Putin the last few days.
He has picked up that energy responding in exhorting his subordinates not to fall for the forces and not to allow those forces to catch fire in their own country. Sam Kaley, CNN in eastern Ukraine.
HOLMES: Sunday was Russian political dissident was Alexei Navalny's 47th birthday. Human Rights activists say at least 90 of his supporters were detained by police after they took to the streets to call for his release from prison.
Video does show a woman who was detained in a Moscow square for walking with a balloon that read Happy Birthday. There are no estimates of how many people participated nationwide, and CNN cannot independently verify claims of numbers detained nor their status.
Navalny is serving a nine-year sentence and a maximum security prison outside of Moscow. He's about to go on trial again on so called extremism charges, which could result in a 35-year prison sentence.
The NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg says Sweden has in his words fulfilled its obligations for admission to the alliance. Stoltenberg was in Istanbul on Sunday meeting with recently reelected Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Turkey has been blocking Sweden's accession to NATO, mainly because it accuses Stockholm of housing quote terrorist organizations. Stoltenberg said Sweden has done its part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Sweden has taken significant concrete steps to meet Turkey's concerns. This includes amending the Swedish constitution, ending its arms embargo, and stepping up counterterrorism cooperation including against the PKK. Important new terrorism legislation has come into force just a few days ago. So Sweden has fulfilled its obligations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Swedish, Turkish and Finnish officials will meet next week to discuss Sweden's membership bid. Meanwhile, hundreds of demonstrators protested Sweden's new terrorism legislation in Stockholm, which had passed as a condition of admission into NATO.
Now Fighting has intensified in several parts of the Sudanese capital after a ceasefire deal expired on Saturday.
The deadly power struggle that started on April 15th has created a major humanitarian crisis. 400,000 people have fled to neighboring countries, and more than a million have been displaced within Sudan.
The cease-fire between Sudan's army and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces was agreed to on May 22nd in Saudi Arabia. But the two sides have violated multiple agreements and talks for an extension broke down on Friday.
The Saudi foreign ministry has released a statement urging the warring parties to return to the talks and commit to a new cease-fire.
Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, a private plane carrying more than a dozen South American migrants was dropped off in California on Friday. Now state officials are investigating how they got there, and if any laws were broken.
We'll be right back.
HOLMES: Welcome back to our viewers all over the world. I'm Michael Holmes. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's go back now to our top story.
A new spike in U.S.- China tensions after a close naval encounter in the Taiwan Strait. The U.S. says a Chinese military ship sailed in front of a U.S. destroyer causing the U.S. vessel to slow down to avoid a collision. The ships are said to have come within about 140 meters of each other.
Now this happened as the U.S. was taking part in a joint exercise with the Canadian navy. China's defense minister accusing the U.S. of trying to destabilize the region, and as relations remain strained, the White House national security advisor says President Joe Biden will meet with his Chinese counterpart, quote, "at some point".
Now that comment from Jake Sullivan as he sat down for an interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: The most dangerous spot in the world perhaps is Taiwan right now. And there is some contradiction in the administration's strategy. You saying and keep saying that policy is unchanged, you believe in the one-China policy, the Shanghai communique, all the various declarations after that.
And then President Biden has four times now said, unequivocally, the United States will come to Taiwan's assistance if there is a Chinese attack on it.
ZAKARIA: What -- is President Biden trying to -- alter the policy of strategic ambiguity, about what the United States would do in the circumstance, and be very clear about it. And if that's the case, is that not a change in policy?
JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: So President Biden has answered this hypothetical question on multiple occasions as you said. He has also on multiple occasions, including in the very same breath, said that our policy towards cross-strait relations towards China and Taiwan has not changed. That it is rooted in the One-China Policy, three joint communique and the Taiwan Relations Act. That remains the fundamental foundation of our policy. The president himself has said that. He said it directly to Xi Jinping --
ZAKARIA: But there's a contradiction there.
SULLIVAN: Well, first of all, the entire Taiwan policy of the United States is built on a series of internal tensions. The One-China Policy, if you begin to unpack it, you will recognize that it is about dealing in a world of internal tension within the policy, and trying to manage those tensions effectively to ensure peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.
This is not a model of clarity, the One-China Policy. That's not a Biden administration issue, that is been true from the moment of the Shanghai communique.
But the thing is what it lacks in clarity, the One-China Policy has succeeded in actually achieving the practical objective of decades of peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait. That's why our policy hasn't changed. That's why we believe the One-China Policy should continue to ensure that there are no unilateral changes to the status quo from either side, and that we maintain that peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait for decades to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Jake Sullivan there speaking with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
Now California says 16 migrants from Colombia and Venezuela were flown to the state capital on a private jet, and dropped off at a church without any prior warning. They were allegedly lured there with promises of jobs, clothing and shelter.
Well now, California officials are investigating who transported them there and whether any laws were broken.
CNN's Camila Bernal with the story.
CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Officials here in California say they will get to the bottom of this. It's now an ongoing investigation. Both the governor and the attorney general here in California say they met with these migrants, that according to the nonprofit group that's taken care of them says is 16 people from Venezuela and Colombia, all in their twenties and 30s.
Now in terms of their journey, we know they were in Texas and they were taken to New Mexico. And in New Mexico they boarded this private jet that brought them to Sacramento, California.
Once they were here in the state of California, they were dropped off outside of the offices of the Diocese of Sacramento.
And according to officials here, there is going to be an investigation into all of this. And of course, the documentation that these migrants have.
According to the attorney general in a statement he released, this is what he is saying about that documentation. He says, "We can confirm these individuals were in possession of documentation purporting to be from the government of the state of Florida."
That statement then goes on to say "State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice. It is immoral and disgusting."
Now the attorney general is looking at potential criminal and civil actions here for the people that either arranged the transport or transported these migrants. He's also saying he's looking into who paid for all of this? And whether or not these migrants were given false promises or misled into coming here to California.
Now there is a faith-based nonprofit organization that is currently taking care of these migrants. They say they will continue to support them in whatever they need. And also say these migrants had no idea where they were or where they were going, but they also have questions in terms of how they got here, and what happens next with their legal process.
Here is a representative from that nonprofit group.
SHIREEN MILES, SACRAMENT ACT: While we are happy to receive them and welcome them and want to give them whatever support they need, they will be in trouble if they don't show up at the court hearing that's been scheduled for them.
BERNAL: Of course, there is a lot of questions as to what happened here in California and who sent these migrants to California. But officials here saying they will investigate while also treating these migrants with dignity and respect.
Camila Bernal, CNN -- Los Angeles.
HOLMES: CNN has reached out to state officials from Texas and Florida for comment -- nothing yet.
Now, the U.S. presidential candidate Nikki Haley is trying to set herself apart from the Republican front runners in the race for the White House. She took part in a CNN town hall on Sunday night in Iowa to try to convince voters why they should choose her over former president Donald Trump, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and a host of others.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny with more.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley making a generational appeal to Republican voters in Iowa on Sunday night at a CNN town hall telling voters she's in it to win it, making clear that she's trying to elevate her candidacy in the growing field of Republican candidates.
She did so by taking direct aim at former president Donald Trump and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis particularly on social security, and Medicare.
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that Trump and DeSantis have both said we're not going to deal with entitlement reform. Don't lie of them and say, oh we don't have to deal with entitlement reform. Yes we do. Yes we do. It's the reality of,
I'm always going to tell the truth. Is it going to hurt? Yes.
ZELENY: She started to walk a careful line on abortion policy. She says she's unapologetically pro-life, in her words, but declined to say whether she would sign a federal abortion ban, saying it simply would not happen in this deeply divided Congress. That could be one of her challenges as she goes forward to try and win
over Republican primary voters, but she made the case that it's time for consensus.
HALEY: I don't judge anyone for being pro-choice anymore than I want them to judge me for being pro-life. So what can we do with consensus? That's exactly what it is. We come through with consensus and say what can we all agree on.
I think we can all agree on banning late term abortions. I think we can all agree on encouraging adoptions and making sure those foster kids feel more loved not less.
ZELDIN: After going through issue after issue from trade, to China to Ukraine and domestic policies as well, one voter said that she is a breath of fresh air.
When asked directly if she faced sexism as a woman running for president, she said she did not look at it that way she said there's never been a line for the women's room for any job that she has applied for. But then she said it's time for a woman to break the glass ceiling.
HALEY: I'm a big fan of women, we balance, we prioritize, we know how to get things done. I mean honestly, we've let guys do it for a while, it might be time for a woman to get it done so.
ZELENY: And Haley is gaining two more rivals this week when former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and former Vice President Mike Pence also throw their hat into the ring.
The field is getting incredibly crowded there's no doubt about that. The first Republican presidential debate, in August.
Jeff Zeleny, CNN -- Des Moines.
HOLMES: And a quick programming note for you. CNN will host another town hall on Wednesday with former U.S. Vice President Mike Pence live from Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa. He will be taking questions from CNN anchor and chief political correspondent Dana Bash, as he prepares for his own expected presidential bid.
Tune in Wednesday, June 7th 8:00 p.m. in Des Moines. That's 9 a.m. Thursday in Hong Kong right here on CNN.
All right, promise or peril? AI technology is gathering steam, poised to fundamentally reshaped so much of our lives, for better or for worse.
We will discuss when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: Artificial intelligence has come a long way in a short time. You might have noticed that. And the technology seems to be reshaping industries across the spectrum from education, to medicine, even music and art.
Now you might remember this AI generated song that went viral earlier this year, recreating the voices of Drake and The Weekend.
Now of course, the artists themselves had nothing to do with the making of that song, and it was wiped from streaming services for that reason. But not before racking up millions of play, and raising some thorny issues about exactly who owns what in the age of AI.
All right. I'm joined now by Martin Clancy. He is the founding chairman of the Global AI ethics Arts Committee at the Institution of Electrical and Electronics Engineers because -- I mean it's just something about your title. We need an ethics specialist in this realm. That is where you work in the arts.
What have you become most worried about with AI? What is already happening that concerns you in this era?
MARTIN CLANCY, FOUNDING CHAIRMAN, GLOBAL AI ETHICS ARTS COMMITTEE: Well I think the biggest concern for everybody in every sector right now is employment. How this is going to impact our jobs in every area of our lives. Music, historically, IS always one of the first places to be affected by technological disruptions. We have seen that, you might remember with Napster (ph) back at the turn of the century.
But prior to that also all throughout the 20th century. We saw all the tech revolutions. So AI is the latest of that.
HOLMES: How quickly could it get out of hand, where you know, the creations of artists or authors or musicians are effectively stole, in a way or altered to create content that then someone else profits from?
CLANCY: I think we are already there, that's what's really exciting and also terrifying for the industry.
For instance last week Queen's back catalog was valued at a record sum for any artist of over a billion dollars. And at the same time, what's that value? That value is based on the value of the copyright.
Now if other people have the right to make copies of that or machines are capable of doing that, what will happen? And we saw last week as well, a very worrying indication where Warner Brothers Music group's stock was downgraded, and part of that was attributed to concerns about AI.
So this is how it may very much this week, this month, and that's -- it's all the play for. That's the scope.
HOLMES: Yes. And you make an interesting point, certainly in the U.S. Federal copyright law does not protect a person's voice. If someone says, they make their living doing voice-over work, for films or commercials or whatever. Are they going to see their voices just stolen and used in AI-generated copy that they have nothing to do with? That's actually happening, actually.
Do they not just not own their music then, but they don't own their voices?
CLANCY: Well, I think there is going to be a very clear line drawn here, that the questions going to come up I think very soon is, who actually owns the voice? Is it the artist or is it the rights holder in the case of the record company?
Because this is new technology, existing recording contracts, perhaps don't specifically outline what this is. So at the moment is it is assumed that the rights holders which is (INAUDIBLE) major record labels and the artists of major record labels are the major artists are one in the same.
But it could come that at a certain point that someone will argue that they're two different things.
HOLMES: Yes. Given the sort of Wild West nature of the world of technology, where you know genies can't go back in the bottle. What sort of guardrails or protections are needed, or would work? I mean, is the toothpaste out of the tube in some sense?
CLANCY: That's a great question. I think there's a straightforward answer to that, oddly enough. And that is self regulation.
So a sector specific response where each industry doesn't look to government, doesn't look to somebody else to deal with it, actually turns around and says this is what we care about.
And how that could be done, there are parallels for this. in the past we've had very dangerous technologies which we have succeeded to work our way through. We think about bio medicine. We think about the nuclear arms race. We are still here.
CLANCY: It takes us out a big vision so in this case, perhaps a series of small visions. So what I'm hoping for is that the music industry can come together across the board with all stakeholders and say -- and that includes listeners and fans -- and say what do we care about?
And COVID showed us that we care about the arts. And I think we can do that. It sounds simple enough, we care --
HOLMES: Yes. And the other thing too, with all of this. We are in the early days. I mean AI is going to get better at what it does. It's going to be harder to pick between the real thing and not. And the other thing too, do you think the interfaces that allow people to use AI are just going to become more and more accessible, more simple to use. Where is it headed? CLANCY: That's a great question -- that's another great question.
First of all we have to realize that AI isn't necessarily the problem here. AI is just a tool. So AI is a way, why are these occurring? Why is it so dramatic?
It's occurring so dramatically like ChatGPT because they are great fun. We have to look at this and actually say, who is using it, and who's having great fun? It is humans. It's people like you and me.
And if we are using it and having fun, then just like anything else that we have fun with we should try to do the right thing. In this case the way to do the right thing is to figure out ways that we can license these products and services to make growth, make more money to allow more humans to work within music, and we can use AI to do that. For instance, the avatars are a great example of that.
So that's the case of the show in London that sold over a million tickets recently, which was created by the artists, employs loads of people locally, uses the latest technology, everybody loves it, the audience loves it.
So that's a great example of this -- of similar technologies used in a way that everybody's having a great time and profiting a business is good.
So I think if we look at it ethically, we can also look at it equitably. And that's the approach that is needed.
HOLMES: You've got to wonder, ethically is good when people are ethical. There's a lot of -- that's lacking in some areas.
I've got to leave it there, but what a fascinating discussion. I'd love to chat with you again on this more at another time.
Martin Clancy in lovely Nice, I am jealous. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
CLANCY: Thank you very much.
HOLMES: Cheers. We are in uncharted territory.
All right. We will be right back.
HOLMES: We are just days away from the Champions League Final and this year's match could be a blockbuster. Inter Milan will be playing for its fourth European Cup victory. One of Inter's key players is the Belgian striker Romelu Lukaku, who is playing in his first ever Champions League final.
Now in an exclusive interview with CNN's Darren Lewis he looks back on the long way he has come from the days when his family was so poor they could not afford to even watch the Champions League final.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROMELU LUKAKU, INTER MILAN PLAYER: I've a very good memory so I can remember perfectly all those years. I remember like so many final that I wanted to watch, you know, I couldn't. So I will go to school, and go to YouTube and watch them.
DARREN LEWIS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: In the computer class?
LUKAKU: Yes. Yes. Yes, at the time. I would like lie and stuff. And then I'd go and watch. And then I have my classmates telling me, oh yes this happened. And was like yes, I saw that, I saw that.
Oh God. But to be honest, to be in this position now, to have my family there. You know, it will be a beautiful thing. Because then it is like -- I couldn't watch, but now you know, by the grace of God I can play now.
It's a beautiful thing, you know, playing probably against the best team in the world actually. I just want to enjoy it, you know, to be honest.
LEWIS: Your grandfather you said is the most important person to you, and your mom and dad of course. And he's from the Congo.
What would HE think of this moment?
LUKAKU: A lot.
The worst thing is one of the (INAUDIBLE) so much of him. Like, I have a picture of my grandfather, and when I look at my youngest son he looks like him so much.
So, you know, my grandfather, yes for me is my number one. He was my number one. He was my biggest fan, my biggest fan. So every time on a play -- yes.
LEWIS: It's ok.
LUKAKU: Yes, it's for him. It's for him.
LEWIS: You've gone through so much, in our careers. Sometimes people don't know the scale of your achievements.
LUKAKU: No, no.
LEWIS: When you get your moment like this --
LUKAKU: It's for him, all the time. All the goals I've scored, everything.
My problem is that I would look up to my mom when I was 12, I did that. Every time when I look at my mom and I would see him in the stands. I'm like, I look at him, I say every goal -- I did it. I did it. It doesn't matter, like wins and losses. I take it on my stride, you
know, these real family issues so, you know, is for me he was -- he meant the world to me. He meant the world to me. (INAUDIBLE)
LEWIS: I wish you all the best.
LUKAKU: Thank you.
LEWIS: For this final.
LUKAKU: Thank you very much.
HOLMES: Well, thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes.
Do stick around. My colleague Laila Harrak -- she's much better than me. She will have more news in a moment which is very good.