Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Makes First Court Appearance Tuesday After 37 Criminal Count Indictment; Trump's Indictment Prompts Violent Rhetoric; Part Of I-95 Collapses In Philadelphia; Driver Captures Moments Before Collapse Of I-95; Trump's Indictment Looms Over 2024 GOP Field; Ukraine Liberates Village On Frontlines. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 11, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:46]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

We begin the hour with the historic court appearance coming up on Tuesday for Donald Trump, the first ex-president to be indicted on federal charges. Just over two months ago in Manhattan Trump became the first ex-president to face criminal charges in the so-called hush money probe involving payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.

This time around Trump will walk into a federal courtroom in Miami to face accusations of possessing and trying to hide highly sensitive classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago resort.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is following the latest developments for us in Miami.

Katelyn, Trump arrives in Miami tomorrow, will hunker down at his golf resort there, but he's going to be back in another courtroom. What happens after that?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, he's going to get to Miami and then he's got to prepare with his lawyers. That's typically what most defendants do. They have to know exactly what they're going to be doing. The very next day for an initial appearance and so we believe he will be huddling with his lawyers talking about who will represent him potentially since he had a few departures on the legal team.

And then he will come to this federal courthouse behind me on Tuesday afternoon. He and his body man, Walt Nauta, the man that is also charged alongside the former president in this historic indictment for obstruction and the mishandling of records. And what they will do in court, we will not get to see at all very likely, Jim.

This is a federal court building and so it's the type of building that doesn't allow any cameras whatsoever to what happens inside and there is a lot of expectation that there is going to be quite a bit of security around the complex to make sure that the former president is quite protected. And so he will go in there, he will have this proceeding. Walt Nauta will be alongside him and also will be arraigned at that time.

We believe both of them will be entering pleas of not guilty as is typical at this stage even if a guilty plea discussion could be down the line, and then things will be kicked off to go to trial. But of course Donald Trump will make a political moment of this as much as he can as he seems to very much like to do, and has already announced a speech after this on Tuesday night.

ACOSTA: All right, Katelyn Polantz, thanks very much for that report. Keep us posted. Anything knew that comes up, we'll go back to you.

Meantime, Trump's indictment is sparking dangerous rhetoric among some of his supporters. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan joins us now with some of his reporting.

Donie, I guess not too surprising that this is taking place. What can you tell us?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. So we're seeing a lot of chatter online. But right now no specific or credible threats of violence according to law enforcement officials that we have spoken to and also experts who monitor this kind of stuff online.

We're certainly not seeing, you know, anything like the lead-up to January 6th, 2021, where, you know, there was a mass mobilization effort on Facebook and elsewhere to get people to come to Washington, D.C. as part of the Stop the Steal movement. But look, a lot of -- you know, because of January 6th and because of the prosecutions stemming from that, a lot of this organizing has moved into private channels which law enforcement officials tell us of course that's a lot harder to penetrate. So there could be organizing happening, you know, in the kind of darker corners of the internet.

But we are seeing some right-wing personalities calling for people to show up outside the court in Miami on Tuesday. But, you know, in terms of the rhetoric, you know, we're seeing a lot of the charge stuff online, of course, talks of violence, but also from pretty prominent Republican figures.

I want to show you what Kari Lake said on Friday night in Georgia. She said, "If you want to get to President Trump, you're going to have to go through me and 75 million Americans just like me. And I'm going to tell you most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA. That's not a threat, that's a public service announcement."

But of course, you know, the experts that we've been speaking to and that monitor this kind of stuff, that's exactly the kind of talk that can, you know, encourage people who are online, who may, you know, want to show up and perhaps even engage in violence.

[18:05:02]

ACOSTA: Yes, absolutely. And so it's the language of incitement. There's just no question about it.

All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks for tracking this for us as always. You do great work in that area. We appreciate it very much.

Let's dig deeper now with Tim Naftali. He is a CNN presidential historian, a former director of the Nixon Presidential Library.

Tim, let's listen to some of the rhetoric, Donie was talking about some of the rhetoric that Kari Lake was using. Let's listen to some of the rhetoric that Trump was using on the campaign trail this weekend. He talked about how this campaign is what he described as, quote, "the final battle," and he made some other comments that sounded awfully familiar. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our people are angry and they just keep doing it. And sometimes you need strength, you have to have strength, more than just normal strength, and we have to get it changed because we're not going to have a country left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And that sounded a lot like what he was telling the crowd on January 6th when he said, quote, "We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." He also posted a message on Friday night to his supporters, late Friday night, saying, "See you in Miami on Tuesday." There was some folks who thought that sounded a lot like the we'll be there, will be wild tweet that he posted in December of 2020 in the weeks before January 6th. Does it sound like he is egging on his supporters again? It sure sounds like it.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it's a reminder that the former president has never shown any regret, any remorse for his role in the insurrection. And that he still believes that his best defense is a vicious divisive offense.

What worries me most of all at this point, Jim, is not his rhetoric. It's unfortunately predictable. What worries me is that one of the lessons of the months and weeks before 9/11, you know, before January 6th, for members of the Republican Party is that being ostriches hurts the country. There are people in the Senate who know full well that revealing our military secrets, revealing how we might, if we ever had to go to war with Iran, how we would do it, that that actually hurt this country.

They have said nothing to the American people about the gravity of the indictment. Not to say that President Trump is guilty. He is innocent like anyone who is indicted until proven guilty. But I think it's time that the leaders of the Republican Party said to the American people, you know what, this matters. These documents matter. This is a major and serious issue. And if indeed the president, former president did this, this is a threat to our security.

They are not saying enough to make clear to Americans that, hey, whatever you might have thought of the other allegations against the former president, this particular federal indictment matters. It matters that he is the first former commander-in-chief in our history who has been now actually -- he's now been charged with violating the Espionage Act.

Can you imagine Dwight Eisenhower or Franklin Roosevelt or John F. Kennedy or Ronald Reagan or George Herbert Walker Bush, every imagining that one of their successors would violate the Espionage Act? Someone on the Republican side needs to stand up and say, wait, this is a serious matter. Take it seriously, people.

ACOSTA: Why aren't they speaking out? Why aren't they doing it?

NAFTALI: Well, I'm not in their heads. Jim, I'm an analyst, I'm an historian, and I follow politics. I think it's a matter of politics. It's the same ostrich like behavior, hoping that either Trump will go away or somehow his followers will not do something terrible.

The fear, I am certain among Republican leaders, is that if they say too much, they will push away the people they need in 2024 to deliver the White House. That to me is putting party over country and it is time to put country over party.

ACOSTA: And Trump says he won't drop out of the race even if he is convicted. In your view, I mean, what can the party do? What can the country do? Because it sounds as though if you're following this case, and how this process might play out, you know, it is quite possible we may not see this fully adjudicated until right in the thick of the campaign season next year, if that. It may even be after the 2024 election.

NAFTALI: Jim, it is absolutely vital that no one be disqualified from running for office because they've been indicted. Our system of government absolutely, our system of justice depends on people being innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't disqualify him. But his party should think twice about having as its standard bearer someone who has put at risk, it appears, major American secrets.

[18:10:00]

The Republican Party has wrapped around -- it has wrapped itself around the U.S. Army, the U.S. Military. Understandably we have a great military. Our military depends on secrets. And keeping secrets. Our military depends on the loyalty of those who've been entrusted with knowledge, foreknowledge of military actions.

The Republican Party, if it wishes to be the standard bearer and the defender of the U.S. Military, must stand up now for American secrets. So the issue is not whether the system would disqualify Trump. The question is whether for many Republicans, Trump's alleged misdeeds disqualify him.

ACOSTA: All right. Tim Naftali, great stuff as always. Appreciate the insights. Thanks so much for coming in. We appreciate it.

NAFTALI: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up, a section of I-95 in Philadelphia gone after a tanker truck caught fire underneath it. We'll take you live to the scene in just a few moments. That's next. And later, Ukrainian forces are making gains on the frontlines in the

eastern part of that country. Why the government is now teasing more to come.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:13]

ACOSTA: A nightmare scenario unfolding for drivers in Philadelphia after a tanker truck burst into flames leaving a portion of Interstate-95 to collapse early this morning. The governor just spoke a short time ago during a press conference saying it will take months to rebuild that portion of the interstate.

President Biden has been briefed on the destruction we're told and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is sending in help from the Department of Transportation that he runs. It's been a very active scene all day.

Let's go to CNN's Danny Freeman who joins us from the scene with more.

Danny, what can you tell us?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, like you said, we just heard from the governor a little while ago and the big question that we still have is why and actually how this all started. The governor and the city, they still say that the answer to those questions are under investigation.

But I want to tell you what we do know. Basically this all starts just before 6:30 this morning when a tanker truck was sitting underneath I- 95 behind me. And basically that truck caught fire, again we still don't know exactly how. But that truck caught fire and that fire was hot enough that it caused I-95 northbound to collapse. And the governor said in this press conference that the southbound lanes, they are also structurally unsafe at this time.

Now currently, Jim, the truck is still underneath that wreckage over there. We've been hearing jackhammering and the sound of heavy machinery trying to dig through that rubble all throughout the afternoon. And while there have been no reports of injuries at this time, the governor said they actually don't know yet if there's anyone who was in the truck at the time of this collapse.

Now, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, though, noted that 500 tons of concrete mess is sitting on the ground back there so that's what officials are going to have to sift through in order to answer some of those questions.

I want you to take a listen to some of what Governor Shapiro said when he first laid eyes on the scene behind me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO, PENNSYLVANIA: Remarkable devastation. And I found myself, you know, thanking the lord that no motorists who were on I-95 were injured or died. It's just a remarkably devastating sight. One that our first responders, law enforcement and others contained very, very quickly. They got people out of harm's way. And now under leadership of Secretary Carroll and others, the hard work of clearing the site and rebuilding it will be underway and we're going to move as quickly as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, Jim, from -- for some perspective right here, PennDOT, they said that this portion of I-95 carries about 160,000 vehicles a day. It may be one of the busiest in the entire state of Pennsylvania and Governor Shapiro said it may take some number of months to clean up so you could see this is going to be a traffic nightmare for quite some time -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes, Danny, as somebody who has driven from the D.C. area to New York, parts of the northeast over the years, that is a terrible part of that interstate to be fully collapsed like that. That is just a huge mess.

All right, Danny Freeman, thank you very much.

The driver who captured the stunning video showing the dark plume of smoke over the interstate -- look at the video -- says he was driving on the southbound lanes when he noticed a dip in the road before the interstate collapsed.

Joining us now on the phone is that driver, Mark Fusetti.

Mark, what was running through your mind during this whole ordeal when this was going on? I mean, you must have had a kind of close call there?

MARK FUSETTI, TOOK VIDEO OF I-95 COLLAPSE (via phone): Yes, it was crazy. At first I just thought it was a brush fire because as I drove by, you can't see it on the footage, but to the right, the grass was on fire. So at first, I thought, OK, this is just a brush fire and I hit that bump which was startling. But it's also in a section where they were doing reconstruction. So it all just kind of thought at the moment, like, OK, this is just, you know, a normal bump, a normal little brush fire.

Then once I realized what happened when I looked in my rearview mirror, I've seen 95, all the cars stopping, and then I learned, you know, shortly after that the road had just collapsed and what was really going on.

ACOSTA: And so you couldn't really see because the smoke was so thick, I guess? Is that it? What had happened there?

FUSETTI: Yes, correct. You couldn't see. Even like the dip, like people have asked how come you drove over it. You couldn't even see the dip. I only noticed it when we hit it. ACOSTA: Wow.

FUSETTI: It was really thick. We were there before the police, before the state police even arrived. So some of them -- those cars that you see driving through it, no one really knew what the real problem was.

ACOSTA: And when you felt that dip, what did it feel like?

FUSETTI: It felt like you drove off a curb. That is how I could describe it.

ACOSTA: So it got your attention?

[18:20:01]

FUSETTI: Yes. It got the attention. But it also I thought, OK, maybe this is just the construction part. I didn't think for a second that the road under me was collapsing and that part of the highway will have to be replaced, too.

ACOSTA: Yes.

FUSETTI: It's definitely what the problem was there. It was on the verge.

ACOSTA: Right. Yes. When you see -- we're playing the video kind of over and over again here, and when you pass the smoke, you could see where the interstate dips. And I guess that is from that section buckling there a little bit.

I have to ask you. Do you drive that area very much? Is that a part of your commute? What's it going to be like for folks in that area if officials say this is going to take months to fix that section of the interstate? This just sounds like it's going to be a huge mess for months.

FUSETTI: Yes. So that's considered the northeast section of Philadelphia, and for anybody that lives in the northeast section of Philadelphia, there is no easy route to get to center city or I-95 South. So that general area right there is going to be gridlocked probably for the entire summer and hopefully not much longer. But that is going to be a nightmare for a lot of commuters.

ACOSTA: Yes. It's going to be a nightmare for a lot of commuters and a lot of travelers going through that part of the country during the busy summer traveling season.

Mark Fusetti, great video there. Thanks very much. Those car cameras are rather ingenious. They do help us out a lot. They certainly --

FUSETTI: They sure do.

ACOSTA: Mark, thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it.

All right. In other news, federal prison officials now believe Ted Kaczynski died by suicide. Known as the Unabomber, Kaczynski was found unresponsive in his prison cell in North Carolina yesterday morning. An investigation is now underway to determine an official cause of death. Kaczynski was serving eight life sentences for sending and hand-delivering sophisticated bombs that killed three people and left 23 others injured.

Coming up, circling the wagon or calling them out. The 2024 GOP candidates are weighing in on Trump's indictment. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:35]

ACOSTA: Donald Trump's indictment instantly became the top issue in the race for the Republican nomination. Today more 2024 candidates staked out their positions from promising Trump a pardon to full-out condemnation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Reading that indictment and looking at the selective omissions of both fact and law, Dana, I'm even more convinced that a pardon is the right answer here.

ASA HUTCHINSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We shouldn't be promising and holding out the fig leaf of a pardon because that undermines our jury system. We don't need a commander-in-chief that disregards the nation's secrets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: This is new polling after the indictment shows almost no change in Trump support among Republicans. The former president still holding on to a massive nearly 40-point lead over his GOP rivals. This is according to a new CBS News poll that just came out.

Joining us now to talk about this, Margaret Hoover, John Avlon.

John, this is starting to sound like -- well, it already was sounding like the 2016 campaign all over again but it really is starting to sound like the 2016 campaign all over again in that all of Trump's rivals are having to spend their time talking about Trump. I mean here we go again.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That is a great point. And it is a little inevitable given that you've got the first federal indictment of a former president. But it is I think a litmus question about their own courage and independence and the leadership abilities. The ability to clearly condemn actions which are alleged in this indictment with a lot of supporting evidence is sort of a bare minimum particularly for a party that in the past has always stood for -- you know, seen itself as standing for patriotism, individual responsibility, the rule of law, strong national security.

Condemning these actions should be a no-brainer. To the extent that candidates who want to be president tip-toeing around Trump, I think that itself becomes disqualifying.

ACOSTA: Yes, Margaret, I mean, Tim Naftali was making this point, a historian for us here at CNN, earlier on in this program, basically asking the question, why aren't some of these national security oriented or self-proclaimed national security oriented Republicans crying foul more over what Trump did? I mean, where are the hawks? The hawks are in hiding.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I actually suspect, Jim, as somebody who is still a Republican who spent a lot of time polling and looking at what self-identify Republican primary voters think apart from Trump, they still tend to be very hawkish on national security. They don't -- I mean even though Trump has these sensibilities that are very soft on Russia and soft on national security, I suspect once it filters out into the mainstream understanding, that Donald Trump had nuclear secrets in showers, in Mar-a-Lago, completely unsecured, with more than 150 public events held at that club in the time that those documents were unsecured.

I just think a lot of the details of the indictment which are 49 pages that you and I have read but most self-identified Republican primary voters haven't, I do think that in particular is going to be something that is going to be very difficult to gloss over.

ACOSTA: Yes, and John, the CBS poll that we were just mentioning also found a tiny fraction of Republican primary voters saying the indictment hurts their view of Trump, 7 percent. We had a package on earlier from Isabel Rosales, she was talking to Trump supporters over the weekend. They were at one of the speeches, no change whatsoever, it appears, even after this indictment.

[18:30:08]

AVLON: Well, people are -- I mean, people are turning out to Trump rallies, I mean, that's a self-selecting crew. I wouldn't be looking for much movement there. But, you know, this indictment came up relatively late in the week. There are details that still need to filter through. And remember, of course, the obvious point that Republicans who have any sense of perspective to be pointed to, is where is he with independents. He's rock bottom and falling fast.

So, look, you know, he has a hardcore group of supporters who have made it very clear that they will support him no matter what he says or what he does. I think there are enough reasonable and decent Republicans who, if real alternative leadership stands up and has the clarity of their convictions to condemn actions that are indefensible, will start to reconsider whether -- that doing this to America again is a good time.

HOOVER: I was just going to say, with all due respect, I actually don't think it matter where independents are on this. This is a Republican versus Republican fight right now.

AVLON: Right now it is.

HOOVER: For the GOP nomination. And I am for one heartened that there are Republicans in the race. I mean, as you and I have talked for years now, Jim, and with John, the Republican Party has been lockstep with Donald Trump and it is refreshing in the very least that there are at least two candidates in this race who say this is an evidence filled indictment and it is disqualifying for him. That was almost unthinkable a couple of years ago.

AVLON: And who are those candidates again?

HOOVER: It's Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, for all of you who are watching.

ACOSTA: But, in all due respect to those two candidates, they're polling at around 1 percent in this CBS poll. And John, yesterday we heard --

HOOVER: Yes, it's early.

ACOSTA: We heard Trump painting himself as a victim of the Justice Department. Interestingly his closest rival Ron DeSantis is striking a similar tone. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is there a different standard for a Democrat secretary of state versus a former Republican president? I think there needs to be one standard of justice in this country. Let's enforce it on everybody and make sure we all know the rules.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: John, I mean, maybe I'm a little long in the tooth, but I remember a time when, you know, if you had rival candidates in a race that they would seize on an indictment of the frontrunner and maybe, you know, try to tell the voters, OK, don't -- maybe don't vote for this guy. He's been indicted. In this case, you had a lot of these rivals in the Republican field, they almost sound like they're auditioning for the cabinet, for the Trump cabinet in 2024 or vice president. They don't want to lay a glove on him.

AVLON: Yes. It is the ultimate sign of weakness. When are folks going to realize bullies only respect strength? And as Winston Churchill said, you know, appeasement is feeding a crocodile, hoping it eats you last. Stand up for real beliefs.

HOOVER: Yes. They should stand up for real beliefs the way Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie area, but I also want to point out and I think this is a tell, Jim, they are all doing -- Ron DeSantis and all the other Republican candidates, also Kevin McCarthy in the House of Representatives, they are making an argument in defense of Trump.

This is not defending Trump at all. All it's doing is trying to deflect the argument and make a whataboutism argument. In other words they're saying hey, look over there, the Justice Department has two standards of adjudicating the law, which is all it's doing is deflecting away from what Trump did. They're not even trying to defend Trump.

AVLON: No.

HOOVER: And I think that's a tell on its face as well.

AVLON: But, you know, actually to get to the original point that Margaret just raised as well, this should be the case because context matters and details where whataboutism goods to die. Because there's simply no comparison in the actual details between what, you know, Trump, you know, was leading chants of lock her up with Hillary Clinton, what Mike pence was excused by, because this is not just the crime. It is the cover-up. As the indictment makes very clear.

And so, you know, if folks -- it's just another example why, you know, you need the context. Context is key to understanding anything. If there is a willful disregard of that, then we need to hammer home the fact that is not a case about whataboutism. That's a cheap deflection. It's got nothing to do with the facts in this case.

ACOSTA: Yes. And since we're looking ahead to this arraignment on Tuesday and Trump has been saying I'll see you in Miami. I want to have you listen to some of the rhetoric Trump was using on the campaign trail yesterday. He talked about how this campaign is, quote, "the final battle" and he made some comments that sounded awfully familiar. If we have that audio, let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Our people are angry and they just keep doing it. And sometimes you need strength, you have to have strength, more than just normal strength, and we have to get it changed because we're not going to have a country left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: We're not going to have a country anymore. It sounded a lot like what he said on January 6th. We have to fight like hell. If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. He's trying to rile them up again, isn't he, John? That's what he's doing.

[18:35:02]

AVLON: This is the politics of incitement. This is the politics of incitement and he's been aided and abetted by people like Congressman Andy Biggs and former Arizona gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake, and many others. This is the apocalyptic rhetoric. This is the politics of incitement and it's incredibly dangerous. It's a very old rift.

It's actually called aggressive defensiveness is the technical term, where people feel aggrieved and they use that as an excuse to lash out. But because we've experienced this in January 6th we should have a learning curve as a country and it simply increases the stakes for Republicans to stand up and condemn this kind of rhetoric because it is inciting. It is asking for an escalation of the kind we've already seen in this country and the echoes are not a mistake. 100 percent. ACOSTA: All right. Yes, he's using January 6th like rhetoric even as

the special counsel is still investigating what led up to and took place on January 6th. It just boggles the mind.

John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, great discussion as always. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

A quick programming note.

HOOVER: Thanks, Jim.

AVLON: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Join Anderson Cooper and Chris Christie -- thank you so much -- for a Republican, CNN Republican presidential town hall. The former New Jersey governor will take questions from a live studio audience and share why he says he is best suited to be the next commander-in- chief. It starts tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Still ahead, Ukraine says it is making key advances along the eastern frontlines in that conflict. Is this a turning point? We'll discuss that next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:38]

ACOSTA: Ukraine continues to make gains in its battle for freedom against Russia. Here are Ukrainian soldiers hanging a flag in a small village shortly after they liberated it. An army spokesperson says six Russians were captured as Ukraine took control. Russian reports say this is just one of multiple Ukrainian offensive between Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk.

CNN military analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins us now.

General Hertling, great to see you as always. This may not be the most strategic land to hold I suppose, but this certainly does matter for moral, doesn't it?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Jim, every single piece of land that Ukrainian forces can pull back for their sovereign territory is going to be part of a march toward operational success. These are small territories. These are small villages that they're retaking. So yes, it is certainly high -- good for their high moral. But secondly, it really reinforces the fact that they are moving forward.

They are conducting operations in various zones within the offensive corridor. They're meeting the Russians in several different locations. And all indicators are that they are slowly gaining success in each one of those.

ACOSTA: And a Ukrainian army spokesperson tells CNN that their forces have been counterattacking in areas around Bakhmut. It's an area we talked about so many times, General. How important is it that Ukraine is gaining ground on these multiple fronts? It sounds like they can do a lot at the same time.

HERTLING: Well, what you're talking about in Bakhmut, Jim, is they're holding Russian forces there. It is not a strategic city. We've been talking about it for a very long time because Russia thought it was important and so did Prigozhin. The Ukrainians continue to keep their forces there so Russian forces can't move to other places in the defense.

We have seen various activities this week that shows that Russia is attempting to move their forces around to meet the Ukrainian assault. They are in most cases not doing very well at that. But, truthfully, we're still really early on in this, Jim. It's hard to tell exactly who is having critical success and who is failing.

But indicators are that on several of the attack axis, and you know, I don't know how many there are in the Ukrainian forces, it could be anywhere from four to about eight that Ukraine has pushed through the first two obstacle belts in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson Province, and that's critically important because one of their main objectives in my view is to cut the lines of communication of Russia from within Russia, Rostov-on-Don, which is a small city -- a large city in Russia all the way to the frontlines near Mariupol, Melitopol, and on into Kherson.

So if Ukraine can cut those lines of communication, what we could call supply lines, it's going to be very important because Russia won't be able to react in creating a defense that stands against continued assaults by Ukraine.

ACOSTA: And there were reports that Russia's rail supply lines in Crimea were targeted yet again. What does that tell you? What is going on with that?

HERTLING: Ukraine has been very good in terms of striking deep targets that affects the logistic support. Just like they're trying to cut the supply lines, you know, I've said so many times with you, Jim, that amateur study tactics, professional study logistics. That's an old saying in the army. So if you can blunt the tactics of your enemy and take them on and the defense that Russia has basically constructed over the last several months and at the same time knock out their supply lines, their fuel, their ammunitions, their mobilized soldiers that are heading to the front, you just have the capability of defeating that force.

That's what Russia -- or excuse me, that's what Ukraine has been doing. It's called a deep strike capability. They're hitting the supply dumps, the headquarters, the mobilization centers, so new replacements, new ammunition and fuel can't get to frontline. It's a very good way of conducting warfare and Ukraine has shown themselves to be very good at targeting those centers so they can destroy them and affect the Russian capability to defend.

[18:45:04] ACOSTA: All right, yes, you've made that point before about logistics. Logistics are very important. I suspect we'll be talking about it again.

General Mark Hertling, thanks very much for your time. Really appreciate it.

HERTLING: You're welcome.

ACOSTA: All right.

HERTLING: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Thank you.

Still ahead, parts of I-95 in Philadelphia are now a contorted mess after a tanker truck catches fire beneath it. What officials are saying about how long it will take to clean up. You're not going to like the answer to that question. That's coming up.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The 2010s was one of the most consequential decades in recent history with political, social and technological upheaval that redefined American culture.

[18:50:04]

This week the CNN Original Series "THE 2010s" is back with an all-new episode revisiting the major social developments of the decade from Occupy Wall Street to Black Lives Matter to MeToo. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: MeToo began to trend on social media as a hashtag. But the term MeToo had been around about a decade. It was started a Tarana Burke who was an activist and a survivor.

TARANA BURKE, ACTIVIST: Changing the narrative around sexual violence was just so difficult. It had been 10 years. I was like I've been trying to make this work for 10 years. And my friend reaches out and says, hey, I'm seeing MeToo everywhere, girl, congratulations. And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa. I want this to be done right. I don't want this viral thing. You know. And she's like, I don't think you understand what's happening. Like this ship has sailed.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Me too!

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: Me too!

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Me too!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An untold number of people posted MeToo and revealed their deeply intimate experiences of abuse. Their stories flooded social media and painted a picture of just how many people endure sexual abuse and harassment every day.

BURKE: There were 12 million responses to the MeToo hashtag in 24 hours. We'd never seen anything like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining us now is Tarana Burke, the founder of the MeToo Movement.

Tarana, as we saw in that clip you've been using the phrase MeToo to advocate on behalf of sexual abuse survivors for a decade before that hashtag went viral. Why do you think the movement took off in that particular moment?

BURKE: Well, you know, I think that it was a perfect storm. I think 2016, you know, after coming off of the election and we saw things like the Women's March happen. We'd seen a series of major cases in the media of course culminating in the Weinstein case. I think we had a moment where particularly women were sort of fed up and it was a moment where people -- and of course social media is a place where people can express themselves pretty freely and quickly. And it just created this moment that could not be stopped. And once the floodgates opened they just never were able to be closed.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, it almost took on a life of its own. How did you harness the energy of that response and channel it into action? Or did it just happen organically?

BURKE: Well, in some ways it happened organically, but I think what people forget is that there was already a movement to end sexual violence well before the MeToo hashtag went viral in 2017. You know, black women have been fighting this for 40 years. Black women, women of color, other marginalized people. There was a concerted effort in this country to do the work of ending sexual violence.

MeToo, even the work that I have been doing for a decade, was part of a long-standing movement. And so I think there were people who were already ready to meet the moment and that helped to build on what started -- you know, what happened in 2017. And so -- you know, and people like I said, people were fed up. They were ready.

ACOSTA: They certainly were. And Tarana, people were really hopeful in the early days of the MeToo Movement, that it would be a true turning point for women's rights and the issue of sexual violence. But there was a pretty strong backlash against the movement. What do you make of that? And where do things stand now?

BURKE: Well, you know, there's always going to be a backlash. Right? There's been a backlash to every major political moment in history. But I think in particular this backlash is because people do not understand sexual violence and they don't understand the pervasiveness of sexual violence. There are these huge myths that exist about what it is and how it exists in this country and really in the world.

And so what we're doing now, what we've always done, is to try to dismantle those myths. I think if people understood that sexual violence is a public health crisis, right? Anything that happens every 68 seconds in any geographical space is a public health crisis. I think if people understood that you have to examine the institutions and the culture and not the people then they would understand that this is something that is not about individuals and individual cases, and maybe the backlash would be different.

So what we do now is we do the work. And that's what, you know, what we were doing before October 2017 is what we continue to do. But now we do it with more people. Right? This is indeed a movement. And what happened in October of 2017 was bolster the movement, add more people. It gave us, gave me and gave the people who do this work a bigger platform. The backlash is really difficult, and it's hard, but it also -- it allows people to see folks for who they are. Right?

[18:55:04]

There are a lot of people who gave a lot of lip service to MeToo in 2017, and they are nowhere to be seen now. Just like people who put black boxes in their -- you know, in their social media in 2020 and then nowhere to be seen now. But we continue to work.

ACOSTA: Yes. And that work continues. Tarana Burke, you really changed history with the movement you started. Thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

BURKE: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. And be sure to tune in. An all-new episode of the CNN Original Series "THE 2010s" airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

There are some places you do not expect to see a bear, and this is one of them. The beach. But check this out. And that is not a dog. I asked before we showed you this video. That is a black bear spotted swimming in the Gulf of Mexico right off of Destin, Florida, today. Then it seems to ride the surf a little bit -- why not -- into the bewildered beach crowd.

You know, one of the things that I'm sure the folks were saying there on the scene was, hey, kids, don't pet the bear. But, you know, that is exactly what we saw if you were on the beach in Destin, Florida, earlier today. Shouts of bear rather than shark I guess might be a good thing. But apparently, it kept running away and into the nearby sand dunes.

A local charter captain says he has seen swimming bears before but more people have cameras now and that's why they were able to get that footage today. Amazing stuff. But again, kids, don't pet the bear if you're at the beach. Just don't do that.

All right. Coming up, former president Donald Trump will head to Miami tomorrow ahead of his arraignment on a federal criminal indictment on Tuesday. What we're learning about his plans and how officials are preparing, next. That's coming up.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)