Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
U.S. President Fetes India's PM with a Lavish State Dinner, Touts Their Growing Partnership; Russia Pledges to Fix Chonhar Bridge that was Damaged by Ukrainian Forces; Almost 500,000 People Impacted by Floods in India; Barack Obama Tells About Joe Biden's Chances of Winning in the 2024 Elections; Sierra Leone Citizens Will Cast Their Votes for the General Elections; Victor Wembanyama Picks First Overall in the NBA Draft. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired June 23, 2023 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber.
Ahead on "CNN Newsroom." The search for survivors on a submersible bound for the Titanic comes to an end. We'll look at what it could mean for the vessel to have suffered a catastrophic implosion killing those on board.
India's prime minister makes a rare address to Congress and attends a state dinner at the White House. We're live in New Delhi with reaction to how the visit is playing out there.
And voters will be headed to the polls in Sierra Leone soon while bringing the issues likely to drive their decisions.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from CNN Center. This is "CNN Newsroom" with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: Hope has turned to despair in the search for the submersible that went missing on a dive to view the Titanic wreckage. Officials say all five people on board died after it suffered a quote "catastrophic implosion."
That determination was made after pieces of the craft were found on the ocean floor not far from the Titanic's bow. Now the focus shifts to figure out what went wrong and when. CNN's Jason Carroll reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REAR ADM. JOHN MAUGER, U.S. COAST GUARD: This morning, an ROV or remote operated vehicle from the vessel Horizon Arctic discovered the tail cone of the Titan submersible approximately 1600 feet from the bow of the Titanic on the seafloor. The debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. JASON CARROLL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four days
after it was first reported missing, the US Coast Guard confirming the worst about the Titan submersible, a catastrophic implosion resulting in the loss of life of all five on board.
PAUL HANKINS, DIRECTOR, U.S. NAVY SALVAGE OPERATIONS AND OCEAN ENGINEERING: We found five different major pieces of debris that told us that it was the remains of the Titan. The initial thing we found was a nose cone which was outside of the pressure hall. We then found a large debris field.
CARROLL (voice-over): Rear Admiral John Mauger confirmed the families of the crew were immediately notified and briefed.
MAUGER: The ROVs will remain on scene and continue to gather information. We're still working to develop the details for the timeline involved with this casualty and the response.
CARROLL (voice-over): A spokesperson for Pelagic Research Services confirmed to CNN it was their ROV, a remotely operated vehicle, that found the debris field near the Titanic. The complex search and rescue mission has attracted international attention garnering assistance from the U.S., Canada, France and the United Kingdom.
In the last 24 hours, search efforts had accelerated over the massive area, twice the size of Connecticut for the missing vessel, as officials feared the 96-hour oxygen supply was running out.
MAUGER: The outpouring of support in this highly complex search operation has been robust and immensely appreciated.
CARROLL (voice-over): The Titan began its dive Sunday but lost communication one hour and 45 minutes into its excursion to the site of the Titanic wreckage. The five passengers, British businessman Hamish Harding, CEO of OceanGate, Stockton Rush, Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his teenage son, Suleiman. French explorer Paul Henri Nargeolet onboard, confined to a small area about the size of a minivan. The U.S. Coast Guard says the search for those on board will continue.
MAUGER: This is a incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the seafloor. And the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel. And so we'll continue to work and continue to search the area down there. But I don't have an answer for prospects at this time.
CARROLL (on-camera): The U.S. Coast Guard saying that those remotely operated vehicles will continue to map the area of the ocean floor where that debris was found to see if anything else can be found.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Last hour I spoke with Frank Owen, a retired submarine commander with the Australian Navy, and I asked him to explain what happens physically to a submersible during an implosion. Here he is.
[03:05:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK OWEN, RETIRED SUBMARINE COMMANDER, AUSTRALIAN NAVY: The force of the pressure on the outside exceeds the capability of the pressure vessel. And what happens then is that there's an almost instantaneous inrush of that pressure, which is 400 or 380 times what we are experiencing here.
The human brain doesn't have enough time to process the difference -- distance, if you like, or the interval between the actual implosion and when the body is almost vaporized.
I hear and I expect there will be no ability to recover any remains, in all the previous implosions that I'm aware of, and that particularly includes the Argentinian ARA San Juan and the Indonesian Nanggala. There were no remains discovered there.
So it is absolutely violent, and when they say catastrophic, there's no other word to describe it.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah. And so, whatever happened would have happened extremely quickly. How small of a problem can lead to an implosion like that?
OWEN: It's that small weakness. It's not gonna be a tiny little crack that lets in a jet of water. It's when the -- this material and in this case it was of course carbon fiber, it wasn't steel.
So there wouldn't have been any bulging or anything else that might be happening with the metal. And particularly with the metal that actually has some elasticity in it, it would just wait and wait and then just go.
So this is one of the aspects of engineering using these composite materials. And this, I won't pretend to start providing any more explanation on composites like that, but it is a picture of them that they are different. They behave very differently to metals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: And he went on to say that officials made the right call in continuing search efforts to find definitive proof after early signs that an implosion had been detected.
The world's biggest democracy and one of its oldest are celebrating their relations. But the red carpet visit isn't without controversy.
India's prime minister was honored at the White House Thursday night with a lavish state dinner, one of the few that President Biden has offered to a visiting head of state. About 400 guests and dignitaries were on hand as the president lifted a glass and offered a simple toast to the Indian leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Toast to our partnership, to our people, to the possibilities that lie ahead, to great friends, to great nations, and to great powers. Cheers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: The visit comes at a pivotal time. Biden has made it clear. He sees India, the world's largest democracy, as a counterweight to China's growing influence.
CNN's Vedika Sud joins us live from New Delhi. So Vedika, take us through the visit and the reaction.
VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Well, to start with, I think it's important to note what the two leaders have said to sum up the partnership between the two countries, the oldest and the biggest democracies of the world.
According to President Biden, it is the defining relationship of the 21st century. And according to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, it is the coming together of the two biggest, greatest democracies.
So that sums it up in a way, Kim, doesn't it? Because what you've seen initially on Thursday was all the pomp, the pageantry at the White House, followed by some hard talk between the two leaders. Now, at this point, it's very important to mention that Joe Biden knows how important India is as a country to the United States of America. It's seen as the counterbalance to China in the region. However, India might not be absolutely fine with being seen as a counterbalance to China in the region, but it's something that the U.S. has always said, and they need India.
The bottom line is, strategically, because of the defense purposes as well. They need India in the region for the free Indo-Pacific region to be away from the Chinese hegemony that has been the one and only fear that India and U.S. have had over the last few years, the growing expansion of China in the region.
But what was really a big takeaway from what we saw yesterday was Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi responding to a question asked by the press. A very rare moment indeed back home or overseas.
[03:10:05]
A very rare moment indeed back home or overseas. He's barely ever responded to questions from the media and there was a pointed question to Joe Biden and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on concerns of human rights violations here in India and here's how both the leaders responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: And I believe that we believe in the dignity of every citizen. And it is in America's DNA, and I believe in India's DNA, that the whole world has a stake in our success, both of us, in maintaining our democracies.
NARENDRA MODI, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Our government has taken the basic principles of democracy. And on that basis, our Constitution is made, and the entire country runs on that. Our Constitution and our government, we have always proved that democracy can deliver. And when I say deliver, this is regardless of caste, creed, religion, gender. There's absolutely no space for discrimination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SUD: What's clear is that Biden wants to draw India even closer than the relationship they share, Kim, but they are aware that India wants to remain non-aligned due to its ties with Russia that goes back decades. So they want India as an ally, but India is only ready to offer deep partnership at this point. And that's what they're going to keep working on, trying to make India the ally to counterbalance China and the region and the Indo-Pacific. Back to you.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Thanks so much, Vedika Sud in New Delhi. I appreciate that.
For more on this, I want to bring in Sumit Ganguly, who's a distinguished professor of political science at Indiana University and a visiting fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. He joins us from Heidelberg, Germany. Thank you so much for being here with us.
So why is the U.S., according to Modi, this honor of a state visit, only the third of Biden's presidency so far? What message does this visit send?
SUMIT GANGULY, DISTINGUISHED PROF. OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, INDIANA UNIVERSITY: It clearly underscores the significance that the Biden administration attaches to India and sees India as a potential strategic bulwark against Chinese expansionist and aggressive tendencies, not just in South Asia, but in all of Asia.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, and as we heard from our correspondent there, I mean, that is such a huge issue, and, you know, it's an issue that resonates for many U.S. politicians. I mean, he got a rousing reception in Congress, but not from everybody. A few Democrats boycotted, including Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, because of, she said, his, quote, "long history of human rights abuses, anti-democratic actions, targeting Muslims and religious minorities, and censoring journalists." Rashida spoke to CNN earlier. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): By bestowing Prime Minister Modi with the rare honor, rare honor of a joint address, Congress undermines. We do, we undermine our ability to be a credible advocate for the rights of religious minorities and journalists around the world.
I think it's shameful to honor these abuses by allowing Modi to address Congress, but I also think our country, the United States, must never, never sacrifice human rights at the altar of political expediency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Now she went on to say that by rolling out the red carpet, it's actually enabling more violence. Do you agree?
GANGULY: I'm not sure that it's going to enable more violence, but certainly it's going to do very little to curb the democratic decline that we have witnessed in India, particularly in the last several years.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, and especially, you know, celebrating Modi like this, it's a significant compromise for Biden, who's tried to make global democracy such an important issue. I suppose he has to sort of do that dance. Is it all about countering China? Is that what it all comes down to?
GANGULY: No, I don't think it simply comes down to countering China. I think the U.S. has a significant interest in expanding trade with India, in building supply chains, alternative supply chains, especially in light of certain developments in world politics, from COVID to Russia's invasion of China, China's closeness to Russia, domestic uncertainty in China.
So, India seems like a viable or a potentially viable alternative to China in terms of global supply chains. Also, the prospects of expanding trade with India investment. And bear in mind that there are significant now people-to-people contacts with vast numbers of Indian students studying in this country.
[03:15:06]
Consequently, it's a multifaceted relationship and not solely dependent on countering China.
BRUNHUBER: You mentioned Russia there. India hasn't condemned the invasion. You can imagine Ukraine was an important topic for Biden. You've argued that stepping away from -- for India, from stepping away from its non-aligned neutral position would be beneficial for India. But do you think Modi will keep trying to play both sides?
GANGULY: For the foreseeable future, I suspect that Modi will try to play both sides. He may slowly wean India off its acute dependence on Russia, particularly for a range of weaponry that is of either Soviet or Russian origin. But you already noticed that India is diversifying its weapons acquisitions, relying more on France, on Germany, and especially the United States.
BRUNHUBER: Alright, and finally, we only have about 20 seconds left, but just looking at the big picture, you'd written earlier that this visit could, quote, "potentially influence relations between India and the United States for years." So based on what we've seen so far, will it?
GANGULY: Certainly the portents are very happy and certainly desirable. The question is, will the Indians build on the goodwill and the foundations that have been laid in this visit? And will the United States also, under Biden, continue the policies that he's initiated?
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, those are the questions. We will certainly watch to see whether it comes to. Sumit Ganguly, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
GANGULY: My pleasure. Thank you.
BRUNHUBER: Well, Ukraine is starting to feel political pressure over the pace of its counteroffensive. Still ahead, criticism from the allies and Ukraine's response to it.
And later, severe flooding is affecting hundreds of thousands of people in Asia. Take a look at the disaster unfolding in villages across northeastern India, please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRUNHUBER: Russian-installed officials say it will take only a few weeks to repair a key bridge to Crimea damaged by a Ukrainian strike. The Chonohar Bridge is one of the few crossings connecting Crimea with the occupied southern Ukraine.
As Matthew Chance reports, Russian state media is using the attack to stage its own PR offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Russian state television, news of the latest Ukrainian strike, punching through a key bridge to Crimea.
[03:20:03]
A military supply route, the anchor says, which Ukraine hit with missiles to cut off. Instead of hiding the bad news, Russia is using it to bolster support.
The Kremlin-appointed governor of occupied Kherson was quickly at the scene to condemn the attack and blame the West.
It's another senseless act by the Kyiv regime at the behest of London, he says, but it will make no difference to the result of the special military operation, what Russia calls its war.
Along the vast front lines in Ukraine. A much anticipated counteroffensive is seeing fierce but limited fighting.
Some Ukrainian officials are pushing back hard, though, on Western assessments to CNN that expectations are not being met.
One senior Ukrainian official telling CNN, it's still way too early to assess the overall trajectory of what the official says were shaping operations. The real counteroffensive, the official told CNN, has not even begun yet in earnest.
Still, the Russian military is taking credit for holding Ukrainian forces back.
Releasing dramatic images of what they say are enemy positions being pounded and characterizing the Ukrainian push as unsuccessful. The Kremlin, though, is sounding an unusual note of caution.
Ukraine's offensive potential has not yet been exhausted, the Russian president warns his defense officials. Its strategic reserves, he says, have not all been activated. It is a recognition of what Ukrainian officials also insist. This battle may be slow, but it is far from over.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Kyiv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Ukraine's air defenses are claiming success in the latest wave of Russian missile attacks. Ukraine says it shot down all 13 missiles targeting an airfield in the western part of the country overnight.
But in Moscow on Thursday, setbacks in two separate courts for an American journalist and Russian opposition leader, "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich, lost and appealed and his pre- trial detention while he awaits trial. which he denies. U.S. Ambassador to Russia says she's extremely disappointed with the court's decision.
And Russia's Supreme Court has dismissed an appeal by Alexei Navalny who wanted access to writing materials while he's in prison. The opposition leader is facing a new trial on charges of extremism that could lead to another 30 years behind bars. He's already serving more than 11 years on fraud charges, which he and his supporters claim are politically motivated.
In India, half a million villagers are suffering through dangerous flooding. So far, one death has been reported. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): A risky walk through a flooded road. These women and their children trekked barefoot across worn-out bridges and away from their homes.
They're running from flooding in northeastern India. That disaster officials say has affected at least 780 villages and up to 120,000 people.
Some of them are farmers. Hectares of farmland that once kept them afloat are now underwater.
Their houses, schools, and belongings too.
JYOTISH RAJBONGSHI, ASSAM RESIDENT (translated): I have no one to help me. My wife and I are now alone. I am sick and if I go to my house (which is flooded), I will fall down. The flood water has damaged my home and most of my belongings.
MYERS (voice-over): Some manage to save their livestock, hens, goats and cows. Assam State has set up 31 relief camps to house over 2,000 displaced people, including over 400 children.
MANOJ RAJBONGSHI, ASSAM RESIDENT (translated): At least 200-300 people are there staying in makeshift tents here.
MYERS (voice-over): Flooding in Assam this time of year is not uncommon. Humanitarian organizations say nearly 2,000 people died between June and September last year due to monsoon flooding across India.
Chad Myers, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Thursday set a new heat record in Beijing for the month of June. The Chinese capital reached 41.1 degrees Celsius, but Beijing wasn't alone. Several other locations across northern China also hit record highs.
[03:25:05]
A few cities even set records for any month of the year. Temperatures are expected to remain well above average throughout the weekend.
Alright, we want to get more on our top story now. The fate of the Titan submersible and its passengers. Officials now shift their efforts into finding out what went wrong. Plus, remembering the victims of the disaster as families and friends mourn the loss of their loved ones. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
And welcome back to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber and this is "CNN Newsroom."
U.S. officials say all five people on the Titan submersible were killed when it experienced a catastrophic implosion on Sunday. The U.S. Navy detected an acoustic sound consistent with an implosion at that time, although it wasn't considered definitive. They immediately told commanders leading the search. What followed was a huge, days- long international effort involving numerous ships and aircraft.
The submersible had been diving to the wreck of the Titanic, some 13,000 feet deep, or nearly four kilometers, on the floor of the North Atlantic Ocean. That's where search teams found pieces of the doomed vessel on Thursday.
Well, officials will now try to figure out exactly what happened and how to prevent it from happening again. The disaster has focused attention on the practices of OceanGate, the company that operated the sub.
CNN's Veronica Miracle reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I spoke at length with DJ Burnick, a former subcontractor who worked with OceanGate and was part of the team that developed and tested the Titan here in Everett, Washington back in 2018.
And he said the design choices and the materials that they used were considered very controversial at the time, innovative, but not necessarily tried and true methods. He also recalls moving very quickly to develop this submersible. He said what they were trying to accomplish and achieve is to create a lightweight submersible that can fit a lot of people in order to explore the bottoms of the ocean and go very deep. And he said in order to make this happen, they decided to use carbon fiber for the hole.
Now the way that he explained it to me is that a conventional use, rather, of carbon fiber is used on airplanes, for example, and that material is under tension. But in a submersible, that material is under pressure, an entirely different kind of force, which he said, was considered an experimental use and very unconventional. Here's what else he had to say about it.
DOUG VIRNIG, FORMER OCEANGATE SUBCONTRACTOR: They created a pressure hull and took it to Woods Hole Institute and subjected it to the pressures that you would find at depth where Titanic is and it passed.
[03:30:00]
But then the question is, well, if you do that repeatedly, then what happens? So these are the sorts of questions that if you have a long research and development program, you start answering. But if you really are pushing the envelope, there's no time to. you know, you're answering those questions in real time.
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He also spoke very highly of CEO Stockton Rush's vision and OceanGate's mission in order to research and explore the ocean. And in fact, he said he understood adventure tourism to not be the goal of the company. In fact, it was a means to an end. He said that having high ticket items like going down to the Titanic was a way for them to fund their real passion, which was the research and development of these programs.
But I did ask him if he himself would have gone down the Titan down to the depths of the Titanic. He said as somebody with a background in engineering who knows everything that could have gone wrong, he would not have felt comfortable.
Veronica Miracle, CNN, Everett, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: The director of the film "Titanic," James Cameron, is himself a deep sea explorer with more than 30 trips to the Titanic wreckage. He says he feared an implosion was likely after learning the sub was missing earlier this week. He spoke with CNN's Anderson Cooper. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CAMERON, DIRECTOR, TITANIC: -- got confirmation that there was some kind of loud noise consistent with an implosion event. That seemed to me enough confirmation that I let all of my inner circle of people know that we had lost our comrades. And I encouraged everybody to raise a glass in their honor on Monday.
Then I watched over the ensuing days this whole sort of everybody running around with their hair on fire search, knowing full well that it was futile, that I was wrong, but knowing in my bones that I wasn't.
And so it certainly wasn't a surprise today. And I just feel terrible for the families that had to go through all these false hopes that kept getting dangled, you know, as it played out.
I was also told, and I don't have confirmation on this, that they had, they were on descent, they were a couple hundred meters above the seafloor, and they dropped their weights. Now, the only way for the ship to know dropped their ascent weights, which would be an emergency abort, is if they had called that in, that they were ascending.
So I believe now that they had some warning, that they heard some acoustic signature of the hull beginning to delaminate. An investigation will hopefully eventually show what did happen, because we all need to know as we go forward. The deep submergence community needs to know exactly what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Families and friends of the victims are now grieving the loss of loved ones. The men on board were fathers, sons, explorers and industry leaders. CNN's Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stockton Rush once said he wanted to be remembered as an innovator. Two years ago, he explained to Mexican travel blogger Alan Estrada his mindset while constructing the Titan submersible.
STOCKTON RUSH, OCEANGATE CEO: I think it was General MacArthur said, you're remembered for the rules you break. And you know, I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me.
TODD (voice-over): Rush's penchant for breaking rules often brought controversy. Submersible industry leaders, as well as some former employees of OceanGate, claimed he was dismissive of regulations. and safety standards.
Rush once countered his critics by saying, quote, "we risk capital, we don't risk people." And he always seemed to have an eye on the future. RUSH: The future of mankind is underwater. It's not on Mars. We're not
going to have a base on Mars or the moon. You know, we'll try, we'll waste a lot of money. We will have a base underwater.
TODD (voice-over): 77-year-old French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet had earned the nickname Mr. Titanic because of his 30-plus dives down to the sunken ocean liner.
Fellow explorer Bill Blaesing met Nargeolet in 2010 when they traveled in a ship together over the Titanic.
BILL BLAESING, FORMER PRESIDENT, BLUE HOLE EXPEDITIONS: He's absolutely passionate about it, and the great thing is he's humble and kind. He's not arrogant like some of the folks in this business. He's a true gentleman explorer.
TODD (voice-over): This wasn't the first adventure for British billionaire Hamish Harding either.
HAMISH HARDING, BRITISH BILLIONAIRE AND EXPLORER: I've always wanted to do this and the sheer experience of looking out of the window is something I'm looking forward to.
TODD (voice-over): Last year Harding went to space with Jeff Bezos on the blue origin flight and was known for exploring every corner of the earth.
JANNICKE MIKKELSEN, EXPLORER AND FRIEND OF HAMISH HARDING: Hamish is larger than life. He lives exploration. He is an explorer to the core of his soul. He has been to the bottom of planet earth and the Mariana Trench to challenge the deep. He's even been in space. We circumnavigated the planet together over the north and south pole and set the world speed record.
[03:35:02]
TODD (voice-over): Shahzada Dawood came from one of Pakistan's wealthiest families. His teenage son, Suleiman, was on board Titan with him. Shahzada Dawood's friend, Bill Diamond, describes him as intelligent, perpetually curious, and believes his friend was aware of the risks he was taking.
BILL DIAMOND, FRIEND OF SHAHZADA DAWOOD: He's not what I would consider, you know, one of these sports adventurers. He doesn't go on, you know, death-defying missions or, you know, ride motorcycles over cliffs or any of these sorts of things, parachuting, scuba diving to the best of my knowledge. So I've never thought of him as -- as a daredevil in any sense.
TODD (on-camera): Stockton Rush' connection to the Titanic could well have been about more than pushing the bounds of exploration. "The New York Times" reports that Rush' wife, Wendy, is a great-great- granddaughter of two first-class passengers who were aboard the Titanic on its fateful voyage. Retailing magnate Isidor Strauss and his wife, Ida, who the Times says died when the Titanic sank.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: All right. We want to return to Russia's war on Ukraine, Kyiv is taking political flak from allies over the slow pace of its ongoing counteroffensive. Three Western officials who spoke with CNN said Ukraine isn't meeting expectations so far.
They say Russian defenses are proving harder to crack than expected, while Ukrainians are often bogged down by Russian missiles and mines. The officials are still optimistic about the offensive in the long run. Ukraine's prime minister says no one should take a cue from Hollywood about a real-life war.
So for more, Nic Robertson joins us from London. So Nic, walk us through how the Ukraine counteroffensive is being perceived, particularly by the West, and how Ukraine is pushing back against that criticism?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, I think there's a sort of a reality gap between what Ukrainians experience and what their Western backers experience and hope for, because obviously in the West there's a huge effort to give Ukraine what it needs to win the war, and there's been a whole conference here in London to give them the money to help them win the post-war scenario.
And I was talking to one of the Ukrainian delegates at that conference just yesterday and he said to me, It's such a bizarre feeling because here we are in this room and people there's a sense that Not that the war's over but almost that this is done that there was a sense of happiness that so much money had been contributed to Ukraine that government officials had stepped up and found the money and businesses were doing the same.
But he said I find that hard to digest because there's a reality here going back to Ukraine that the war is still going on. We haven't won the counteroffensive, yet there's this dichotomy of feeling. And I think we've got a sense of that when it comes to counteroffensive, not only from the prime minister, but also from Ukraine's president, who said just a couple of days ago that the offensive perhaps wasn't going as fast as people expected, and again made that Hollywood comparison, that this isn't a Hollywood event.
I was in Ukraine speaking to officials a couple of months ago. And this is exactly what they were saying back then. Do people outside of Ukraine really understand what it is to fight a counteroffensive? This is really tough. The battle is against an enemy that's well-equipped and well-dug in. We're gonna win, it's our country, they say.
But this is incredibly tough. So I think there's this dichotomy of understanding. And I think that's what Ukrainians are wrestling with. And one senior Ukrainian official said, look, you haven't even really seen the proper counteroffensive yet.
Vladimir Putin made a reference to this a couple of days ago saying that he doesn't think that Ukraine has put everything into the fight so far that they can, that there is -- there are still counteroffensive operations to come. But I think you know that, perception gap is a thing that Ukraine is going to -- is going to struggle with because you know you heard from Secretary General of NATO Jens Stoltenberg a month ago saying we've given Ukraine all this equipment they should be ready. So there's a perception they have what they need.
The reality is it's just a very, very tough fight. And I think we're seeing that reality gap being bridged by the statements we're hearing.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, absolutely. All right. So thank you so much, Nic Robertson. I Really appreciate it.
Former U.S. President Barack Obama sits down for an exclusive interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour to discuss the state of democracy in America and around the world. We'll have their conversation when we come back.
And voters in Sierra Leone head to the polls this weekend to choose their next leader. So once at stake, that's ahead on "CNN Newsroom." Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRUNHUBER: CNN's Christiane Amanpour sat down with former U.S. President Barack Obama for an exclusive in-depth interview about the state of democracy around the world. Here's some of what the former president had to say about Russia's war in Ukraine and Joe Biden's chances of winning a second term as president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: President Biden is running for reelection. Everybody's talking about his age. People are talking about his polls, even there's some challenges within the Democrats. Maybe somebody might start, you know, to try to primary him, et cetera.
But what I would like to know is, many say that his policies and his legislatives and his wins, frankly, should speak for themselves. And yet, according to The Way to Win, it's a Democrat-leaning company firm. Only some 22 percent of Latino voters, 33 percent of black voters can actually identify something that they say he's done to specifically make their lives better. What would you say to that? And how would you advise him to connect in a reelection?
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I think Joe Biden has done an extraordinary job leading the country through some very difficult times. I do not think that there's going to be any kind of serious primary challenge to Joe Biden. I think the Democratic Party is unified. You know, there was a lot of talk. You'll remember when he was first
elected because Bernie Sanders had run that somehow there was this huge split between progressive Democrats and more centrist Democrats. And the truth is, is that partly because of how Joe has governed, those divisions have been bridged.
I think what's true in American politics generally is until you get to campaigns, people aren't paying much attention. People have gone through a difficult time because of COVID and the pandemic and lockdowns, because of inflation, primarily the result of both the war in Ukraine and rising energy prices as well as supply chain issues. And so people have memories about the, okay, eggs got more expensive and gas was more expensive.
And they haven't been paying as much attention to the fact that, for example, the African-American unemployment rate is lower than it's been in decades. The campaign will allow President Biden to make those arguments. And I think that, you know, in an immediate environment that's so cluttered, it's very hard to break through until you get to election time. You'll recall when I ran for reelection in 2012, my poll numbers weren't that great. And we ended up winning comfortably.
Part of that was just we started campaigning, and we were able to get a message out. And people said, yeah, you know, that policy or this policy or this thing left undone, that irritated me a little bit. But overall, I think he's done a good job. And I think that's what they're going to conclude about Joe Biden as well.
AMANPOUR: When Russia started its illegal invasion, the second invasion of Ukraine, I believe you said that democracies, it's a clarion call, it's a wake-up call, democracies are getting flabby and feckless. Where does Ukraine, in your view, stand in the fight to preserve democracy?
OBAMA: I think it's vital.
[03:45:00]
It's interesting, before I left office, I gave speeches not just here in Athens, but also in Hamburg and in London. And one of the arguments I made is, do not take for granted the extraordinary achievement of the European Union and the fact that a continent that was wracked by war and bloodshed for centuries was now as prosperous and as peaceful as any in history.
And then now we've seen the first war on European soil in recent memory, and I think it was a wake-up call to Europe, and I think it was a wake-up call to the West and to democracies around the world that the old ways of thinking might makes right, big countries can do what they want to small countries, that people cannot independently determine their futures, that those forces have to be confronted.
Watching the Ukrainians themselves with such courage and bravery fight back, I think that reminded Europe of who they were. And I've been impressed by the degree to which -- in not easy circumstances, Europe has stood up. It has provided the aid that was necessary. I think the Biden administration has very deftly managed maintaining that alliance to support Ukraine. And I believe the stakes are high to send a message to somebody like Putin that they are not going to just be able to willy-nilly determine the borders of other countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: And you can see Christiane Amanpour's full interview with former U.S. President Barack Obama. A CNN Exclusive, coming up at 1 p.m. in New York, that's 6 in the evening in London.
Brazil's highest electoral court is deciding the political future of Jair Bolsonaro. The trial of the former Brazilian president kicked off on Thursday. He's accused of abusing his political power last year when he publicly vented unfounded attacks on the country's electoral system to foreign diplomats.
Bolsonaro also has belittled the trial and said the charges aren't justified. If convicted, he could be ineligible to run for public office for up to eight years. Bolsonaro's lost last year's election by a narrow margin to current president Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva.
Millions in Sierra Leone are expected to head to the polls on Saturday to choose their next leader. Incumbent Julius Maada Bio is seeking a second and final term in office. He was elected in 2018 after defeating Samura Kamara of the main opposition party in a runoff election.
And in Saturday's election, Kamara is once again B.O.'s biggest challenger. Now the vote comes as Sierra Leone is caught in an economic crisis. Stephanie Busari joins me with more. So Stephanie, a lot on the line in this rematch of the 2018 election. What more can you tell us?
STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SR. EDITOR AFRICA: Kim, this elections are coming at a crucial time for Sierra Leone. It is the fifth presidential elections since the civil war ended 21 years ago. And citizens are desperate for change. Very high inflation in April alone, 37 percent, according to the IMF, which has led to very high cost of living that has inevitably led to frustrations.
And the security situation is tense. One person described it as preparing for war. We've been speaking to people in Freetown, the capital. Take a listen to what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUSARI (voice-over): These Sierra Leoneans are calling out for change as the West African state heads to the polls to elect a new president on June 24th.
Among the issues, citizens are battling a soaring cost of living and massive unemployment, with inflation sitting at around 37 percent in April, according to the IMF.
AMINATA FANTA KOROMA, OPPOSITION PARTY MEMBER: The country is just too tight, and we are not seeing any prospects that these things are coming down, because the dollar inflation is very high. Everything is very high.
BUSARI (voice-over): Around 3.3 million, less than half the population, are registered to vote in this. The fifth election since the end of the country's brutal, decade-long civil war 21 years ago.
Hunger at the current state of the country spilling over in August last year. with more than 20 people killed in anti-government protests across Sierra Leone.
Incumbent President Julius Maada Bio's view of those protests.
JULIUS MAADA BIO, PRESIDENT OF SIERRA LEONE: This was not a protest against the high cost of living. The chant of the insurrectionists was for a violent overthrow of the democratically elected government.
[03:50:07]
BUSARI (voice-over): Former Syrian Union child soldier turned author and human rights activist Ishmael Beah says the mood in the country is not hopeful.
ISHMAEL BEAH, AUTHOR AND HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Even as we lead towards election, the security situation has gotten tense in the way that you have more presence of armed police, armed military, that are basically patrolling the streets as if going to an election is also going to war.
BUSARI (voice-over): Amongst the 12 candidates challenging Maada Bio in the general election is the leader of the opposition All People's Congress Party, Samura Kamara.
SAMURA KAMARA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I Want to call all Sierra Leoneans to come out and vote on the 24th, come rain, come sunshine, come the usual barrage of bullets, or come anything else, to protect their votes.
BUSARI (voice-over): The 72-year-old former cabinet minister is facing trial on corruption charges, which he denies.
If convicted, Kamara would be barred from holding public office. He appeared before court in April, but the case has been adjourned until after the general election.
59-year-old Maada Bio seen here dancing in the rain on the campaign trail has promised, if re-elected, to feed the nation and create half a million jobs for young people in five years.
For the people of a country that has faced so much tragedy, its future is by no means decided.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUSARI: Kim, I was in Sierra Leone in 2017 when a devastating mudslide tore through the country, killing scores of people. And even then you've got a sense that people were desperate for some stability. I remember people saying then, why us? Why always us? And, you know, there's a sense these are some of the most resilient
people you will meet anywhere in the world, and they've had to bounce back from so much tragedy.
And going into these elections, people are not feeling hoped for. That much will change. The former child soldier I spoke to in that piece has said that the mood is somber. Young people in particular, which are very key demographic in these elections, many of them are coming of age and voting for the first time in this post-war era. And he's saying that many of them are not feeling hopeful that the new president will do much to change their demographic, their situation. So, unemployment is the key issue that the next president will have to tackle, Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah I spent a year in that beautiful country. Let's hope that the folks there do see positive change. Stephanie Busari, thank you so much. I Appreciate it.
All right, coming up. The Victor Wembanyama era begins in the NBA. Why the 19-year old Frenchman says his new life already reminds him of a Star Wars movie? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRUNHUBER: A zoo in New York is showing off some cute additions. Have a look here.
Four newborn lion cubs at the Buffalo Zoo. Mom gave birth a couple of weeks ago, but for now the little ones haven't been named. The family will be kept out of the exhibit until they're strong enough to go outside and they're said to be doing well. But here's the kicker. Zookeepers think the cubs are two males and two females. They're just not sure yet.
[03:55:07]
Well, as everyone expected. The San Antonio Spurs chose Victor Wembanayama with the first pick in Thursday's NBA Draft. Expectations are sky high for the 19 year old Frenchman. He has the potential to revolutionize the game and be one of the greatest players ever.
CNN's Omar Jimenez was there on the red carpet in New York as Wemby and other stars dazzled the fence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For starters, we've got to talk about the looks because I thought I came ready, you know, three piece suit, that whole deal. No, no, no. Everybody came here ready to make a statement. I want to start Brady Dick. You couldn't miss him. He went to Kansas wearing an all-red sparkly blazer with the sparkly turtleneck. He told me that he was paying homage to Dorothy's red slippers in Kansas.
Also, scoot Henderson. I mean, come on. You weren't going to miss him. You could see him from a mile away, dripped out from head to toe and among the top prospects in this draft to hell of a ball player.
And then of course you have Victor Wembanyama. He is the generational talent that is here today, being described as a generational talent, I should say, and a Star Wars fan. So I asked him if he were to describe this next phase of life in the form of a Star Wars title, what would it be? Take a listen.
You can't say Wemby Strikes Back.
VICTOR WEMBANYAMA, DRAFTED NO. 1 BY SAN ANTONIO SPURS: No, The Force Awakens. You know. Yeah, The Force Awakens.
JIMENEZ: Why The Force Awakens?
WEMBANAYAMA: You know, because it's, from my point of view, it's the beginning of a new life and I'm trying to be as special as I can be and hopefully someday I make history.
JIMENEZ: An incredible talent but also an incredible mind, and the thing about the NBA draft, the draft really in any professional sport but especially the NBA is, it is the beginning of a new chapter of a new life for these players. It is in many cases, they are dreams that are now finally coming true as they walk across the stage and shake the commissioner's hands and then I asked all these players a very crucial question. Everybody's all smiles now. They all say it's a brotherhood now, they all told me once they get in between those lines the competition is on and we're going to see once things actually begin.
Omar Jimenez, CNN, Brooklyn, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: I'm Kim Brunhuber. "CNN Newsroom" continues with Max Foster in London after a quick break. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
