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Yevgeny Prigozhin, Leader of Mercenary Wagner Group Previously Fighting against Ukraine for Russia, Takes Russia City Rostov-on-Don in Apparent Insurrection against Russian Leadership; Yevgeny Prigozhin Demands Meeting with Russian Military Leaders after Criticizing Russia's Invasion of Ukraine; Russian President Vladimir Putin Condemns Actions of Leader of Wagner Group as Armed Uprising. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired June 24, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:47]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in London. We're following breaking news right now out of Russia, major historic breaking news. President Vladimir Putin facing the greatest threat to his authority since he first rose to power some 23 years ago. Putin is accusing his one-time ally, Yevgeny Prigozhin of an armed rebellion, his words, armed rebellion. Prigozhin says his forces have taken control of key military facilities in the city of Voronezh and the region of Rostov-on-Don. He threatens to move on to Moscow, which is not too far away, if Russia's top general and defense minister don't meet with him. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD OF THE WAGNER GROUP (through translator): Again, we came here, we want to receive the chief of general staff Shoigu, and so they are here, and so they are here, we will be located here, blockading the city of Rostov, and we will go to Moscow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Putin calls the actions by Prigozhin a betrayal, his word, and a stab in the back to the Russian people. He said those who follow him will pay the price.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I repeat, any internal turmoil is a mortal threat to our statehood, to us as a nation. This is a blow to Russia, to our people, so are actions to attack the fatherland against a threat will be severe. All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods, will face inevitable punishment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're seeing more and more videos emerging right now, like this one, a Russian military helicopter apparently avoiding fire from the ground. Meanwhile, elsewhere, a different Russian helicopter made a hard landing in the Voronezh region. According to Russian state media, one person was injured, but it is not clear whether that military helicopter was one of those apparently involved in operations against Wagner forces.

We're following all of these developments on what's happening in Russia with our reporters and analysts. I want to begin with our chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. He is tracking developments for us. Nick, first of all, bring us up to speed, where things stand, and very dramatic, very historic, where things stand right now.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, Wolf, important you point that out. We started this morning with Wagner troops in Rostov-on-Don itself, a vital southern military city, unimaginable to not be under Russian government control. It's key buildings, it seems, Yevgeny Prigozhin seemed relaxed in there.

But as we head towards the end of the afternoon, early evening now in Moscow, there are reports suggesting that Wagner forces are in the region of Lipetsk. It is important to know the geography here, because there is a long highway that goes from the southern city of Rostov-on- Don, up towards the capital city Moscow, which Prigozhin has been utterly clear is essentially where he wants to go.

Voronezh, you've seen the videos of the helicopter clashes there from earlier on today, that is halfway. Lipetsk is the next region. And so the indication here is that Wagner forces are moving very fast. They may be 60, 70 percent of the way up the road, possibly 200 to 300 miles away from Moscow.

That is utterly startling. And what is also interesting to hear from the statement from the Lipetsk governor, that while he says local police and law enforcement are keeping the population safe, it is not an indication there they're necessarily stopping Wagner. And frankly, some of these are the most seasoned, savage fighters that Russia has, seasoned from the front lines of Bakhmut and other parts of the more brutal violence we've seen over the winter in Ukraine. And so these are people I think that Russia's military will also gingerly approach, or not be too keen to confront.

And that's essentially Vladimir Putin's problem right now. This is unprecedented. He has never seen a threat to his rule like this before. And the mere fact his press person has said he's in the Kremlin, he's been seen to be ringing allies, or receiving calls from them, essentially reminding them that he's still there in power, and that shows a man nervous.

[10:05:01]

He seemed to be angry in the speech you're seeing there, quite clearly making threats towards those who are part of this armed insurrection, saying this is blackmail, terroristic methods, not really giving much of a suggestion that a calm amnesty could follow if they gave over their leader Yevgeny Prigozhin. This is an existential battle, really, for the control of the Kremlin, it seems. Yes, it could all suddenly calm down, but I will tell you one thing that isn't going to go back, Wolf, and that is the control Vladimir Putin had over Russia earlier on this week. I feel that's gone for good now.

BLITZER: Yes, it is a huge, huge embarrassment for Putin. There's no doubt about that. Nick Paton Walsh, stand by. We will get back to you.

We are told, by the way, that the White House is very closely monitoring this emerging power struggle that's under way inside Russia. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is over at the White House for us. She's joining us right now. What are you hearing over there, Priscilla?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Wolf. They are actively monitoring this unfolding situation. And we know as of yesterday evening that President Biden had also been briefed on it. Now, in a statement from a national security council spokesperson, we know that they said, quote, we are monitoring this situation and we will be consulting with allies and partners on these developments.

Now, officials here are being careful as to when they weigh in, of course, because this is rapidly evolving, but we should note, Wolf, that as of early January, officials have been monitoring a power struggle between the mercenary Wagner Group and the Russian government. Now, they believe that tensions would mount, and we're seeing that play out now. But the fact that they have been gathering intention and assessing this power struggle indicates just how important it was for the White House to understand this, especially its ramifications, or ramifications it could have in the war in Ukraine.

Now, of course, part of that statement, I mentioned, includes discussions with allies and partners. Only moments ago, we heard from State Department, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, has had a call with G-7 allies and E.U. counterparts, and in that call the secretary making clear that the support for Ukraine is unchanged and will remain moving forward. But clearly, those conversations are happening behind the scenes as U.S. officials try to gather exactly what is unfolding here and what may proceed.

Now, we are waiting for any more comment from the White House, but as I mentioned, when that comes, it is still unclear, because they are, too, being cautious as they move forward.

BLITZER: Priscilla Alvarez, once you get those comments from the White House, we'll get back to you immediately. Thank you very much.

Let's discuss all of this and more with CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier, CNN national security analyst Beth Sanner, and CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto. Kim, let me start with you. At least one Russian general has called this a coup, a coup. Prigozhin says it's not a coup but a march for justice. His words. How serious is this challenge that's under way right now to Putin's power in Russia?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Wolf, perhaps it's not a serious challenge to the power, but it is a serious challenge to his reputation on the world stage. You mentioned just a couple of moments ago about this severe embarrassment Putin is facing. He could control the message that is seen by his own people, and Russians have been watching Prigozhin, the Wagner chief, decompensate for months, having all sorts of outbursts online.

But now, this direct challenge is something that is being seen in Delhi, in Beijing, Latin America, Africa, places that Putin needed for diplomatic, military, and economic support, so he needs to show that his house, that he can get his house back in order.

I think that any challenge that might have come, the kind of coup that the west had been hoping for, inhouse rivals taking Putin out, is less likely because for them, Prigozhin is a wild card, someone they can't work with, someone who is a folk hero who could challenge them. That doesn't change the fact that they could use Prigozhin as some sort of fall guy. Again, we're in wildcard territory.

BLITZER: We certainly are. Beth, sources say the U.S. and other western officials were caught off guard by these new dramatic developments. Were there signs that they might have missed?

BETH SANNER, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, I think that they've, we, all of us, including tracking the clashes between Prigozhin and the military, and escalation of that. I think that predicting tipping points is really hard. When is the fruit cellar in the Tunisian market going to set himself on fire, that is hard to predict.

[10:10:00]

When the Russian military planes are going to bomb a camp of Wagner fighters that sets him over the edge, that's hard to predict. So I can think that pretty much everyone, including probably Wagner fighters, were caught off guard. But I also -- I think we need to look -- we're going to have to look back and really see if we did miss something or not. This looks very organized in a way, which makes me think that there were some preparations under way.

BLITZER: Jim, we've all been watching the tensions between Prigozhin and the Russian military establishment ratchet up now for months. What is the end game for him? What are we talking about? Is this simply the removal of Sergei Shoigu from the Ministry of Defense? Is that all he wants? Or does he want more?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The fact is that western intelligence doesn't know the answer to that question. And as this began, as Prigozhin targeting only defense ministry leadership, given that the Russian president has now publicly called this an act of treason, Prigozhin, whether he wanted to or not, is in direct confrontation with the Russian president, and apparently sending his forces towards Moscow. Let me give you a sense of what the western intention view is of it at

this moment. And they will acknowledge that they have limited understanding of everything, but they are -- British intelligence is calling this an outright military confrontation in Russia. In addition to that, what they're watching closely for now is the reaction of regular Russian military units to Prigozhin. Wagner operates somewhat independently. This is a private militia, in effect. But there's been evidence, some evidence, at least, that as his forces have moved through Russia, that there's been at least a passive response from some regular Russian military units. So the test going forward will be, is that widespread or isolated, with particular attention, I'm told, towards how Russia's National Guard reacts to those forces as they attempt to move north.

The other point I would make, Wolf, is that Rostov-on-Don, which Prigozhin's forces already appear to have taken over, is the key logistical hub and planning hub for Russian military operations inside Ukraine. So the effects on Russia's campaign in Ukraine are very real going forward. It's a supply issue. It's a command issue. And so the repercussions here, certainly inside Russia, but also inside Russia's campaign in Ukraine.

BLITZER: Let me follow up with you on that, Jim. Can Putin really afford to allow someone to remain in command of this sizable force, the command that Wagner now has, can Putin allow that to remain in force?

SCIUTTO: The view of western intelligence is no, it's such a direct and open challenge to his leadership, and this is Putin who, listen, you have dissidents who speak out against Putin, and they get poisoned, right? So an open military challenge to his leadership is something that the Russian president is not likely to tolerate. And you have the prospect here, right, of Putin then having to unleash his military forces still loyal to him against targets inside Russia, right? Because you have, in effect, an armored column heading up the highway toward the Russian capital here. So in addition to road blocks and so on, whatever he can throw up, and I know there's been some evidence of that in and around the Russian capital, but also on the highway heading north towards Moscow, you have the prospect of Russia firing on Russia here, which is just remarkable. Russian forces firing on Russian forces, remarkable.

BLITZER: It certainly is remarkable. And remember Rostov-on-Don is not very far away from Moscow, and it looks like the Wagner troops of Prigozhin, they're in control over there already. It appears, Kim, that Wagner's forces are in fact moving toward Moscow with very little resistance from the active duty Russian military, that has established control in these two major centers, we're talking about Rostov-on-Don and Voronezh. Is that a sign that Prigozhin has more support than was previously thought?

DOZIER: I think it's a sign that these commanders think of Prigozhin as -- the commanders of these bases, they've worked alongside Prigozhin in the field. They think of him as a strike force, but they also know he is a bit of an untested quantity. They don't want to pick a fight with him directly. [10:09:57]

But I think in the next 24 to 36 hours, to Jim's point, Putin cannot allow him to remain in power because of the other elements of Russian power that could move against Putin in the interim and take advantage of this. So I think after dark, you're going to see possibly some sort of targeted special operations raid to specifically take Prigozhin out. Prigozhin hasn't been very careful about his communications.

And the problem is, the longer they let this go on, the more they allow some of these military forces to hear of this and possibly back Prigozhin up. Then his 25,000 force might swell to something that is more of a challenge. The moment he tries to march directly -- he's still, what, 500, 600 miles away from Moscow -- the moment he tries to march up that road, I think they're really going to -- you're going to see Russian on Russian force power.

BLITZER: And you think the Russians will use military air power to attack Prigozhin's troops?

DOZIER: Look, if I were -- I wouldn't let them get within a few hundred miles of Moscow, because we've seen the center of Russian power is in the cities. That's where things are decided, right now this is something that is happening in the hinterlands. We've heard on this network from other people who have walked around Moscow today, it's quiet, it doesn't seem like people are really reacting to this. But if Prigozhin's troops are allowed to approach that city, which is the center of Russian power, and people actually hear fighting of Russian forces against Russian forces, that puts us into a whole new ball game. I don't think Putin can allow that.

BLITZER: That puts us, you're absolutely right. And Beth, is Prigozhin potentially making a mistake by continuing to move through the country rather than simply stay and consolidate power where they currently have it?

SANNER: Well, I think we're going to see whether that was a mistake or not. As Kim laid out, as you string along a column along a major highway, just like we saw in Ukraine, this put Russia, it puts this convoy, at great risk of an air attack. But that is a huge, huge move, that I think Putin is worried about using. In his speech, he harkened back to World War I, and the horrific nature of the civil war that erupted in 1917 and how many lives that took, and what that meant for the Russian nation. And so Putin is very, very worried about restarting that. But as Kim says, he cannot allow this to continue, and Prigozhin is calling his bluff. The Chechens are on the outskirts of Rostov-on-Don. We are going to start seeing some bloodshed.

BLITZER: Yes, that's what is expected, widely expected right now. Beth, how much, of all of this drama that is playing out, how much of it will ordinary Russians be seeing and observing? Because a lot of it is in fact playing out in plain view.

SANNER: Yes, it is interesting to me that the Russians have not shut Prigozhin off of the telegram channels. We continue to see him putting out messages. They haven't shut down the Internet. They are perfectly capable of doing that. And at some point, they may do that. But again, each step that Putin takes, he has to measure against, if I do that, does that lead to panic? If I do this, does it actually lead to almost a path to civil war? And so the calibrations are quite complex. And Putin has never had to make these sorts of decisions. It's quite a conundrum.

BLITZER: And Putin no doubt, no doubt remembers what exactly happened in August of 1991, when there was a failed KGB coup, a failed KGB coup against Gorbachev and Yeltsin, but a few months later, in December of 1991, there was the collapse of the Soviet Union, which he says was the worst thing that ever happened to Russia. Indeed, Beth Sanner, Kim Dozier, Jim Sciutto, we'll watch all of this unfold together with you. Thank you very much.

These are historic developments that we're watching right now. And we also just got in some new video showing what is happening in parts of Russia right now. Take a look at this. It is a burning fuel tank at an oil refinery in the city of Voronezh. We do not yet know what caused this fire, but social media videos have shown at least one military helicopter in that area.

[10:20:03]

In that video, the helicopter flies toward the refinery. There's an explosion, a fireball, then thick black smoke rises from the area. We're working right now here at CNN to get more information on that. We'll bring you more of it as we get it.

And this just into CNN right now. We're told the U.S. and western allies were in fact caught off guard by what's happening in Russia right now. We'll discuss that, and the diplomatic implications of all of this, right after a short break. Our special coverage continues right after this.

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BLITZER: We're following breaking news this hour, as Russian President Vladimir Putin already embattled with what has become a punishing war in Ukraine, faces perhaps the boldest threat to his hold on power in Russia in all his 20-plus years leading the country. And the threat actually comes from within Russia.

[10:25:05]

Joining us now, Nic Robertson, he's here in London with me, and Natasha Bertrand, she's in Washington, D.C. Natasha, you have been doing some really excellent reporting that the U.S. and its allies, NATO allies, were caught off guard by all of this. Tell us what you're learning.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Wolf, so obviously, the U.S. and its western allies, they have been monitoring for some time the ongoing and increasing tension between Prigozhin and the Russian Ministry of Defense. But it was really hard to tell whether that tension was actually going to result in something like this. As Beth Sanners said earlier this hour, it is really difficult for U.S. intelligence officials to predict that kind of tipping point.

And so when all of this happened last night, it really did catch U.S. and western and European and other officials off guard because of the speed with which it unfolded. We are told that U.S. officials did convene emergency meetings across the administration last night to figure out exactly what was going on, and how to respond. But we're also told that they have been very careful here not to weigh in publicly because they simply do not want to give Russian President Vladimir Putin any fodder to be able to say that the U.S. and the west is interfering in any way, or, of course, that they are actually fanning the flames of what they are calling an armed rebellion by Prigozhin and the Wagner group.

Now, it is unclear to U.S. and European officials just how far in advance Prigozhin had been planning this attack. Again, they did not see any overt signs that Prigozhin was planning to storm Rostov, for example, and take his forces even further north and towards Moscow. One source familiar with the intelligence did say it appears it probably took at least several days of planning, but another source noted to us, Wolf, that Rostov is very close to the front lines where Wagner was operating inside Ukraine. So it may not have required much forethought. So these are the kinds of things that the U.S. and the west right now are trying to figure out and gather more intelligence on, Wolf.

BLITZER: They certainly are. They're working overtime, I'm told, right now to get as much information as they possibly can. Nic, we're learning that Putin is at the same time calling his close allies to try to shore up some support from them. What does that tell you about the position he's now in?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He is in a weaker position, there is absolutely no doubt about that at all, he will be concerned that his loss categorically, even he can't deny it, and it appears until very recently has been trying to keep it to one side, lost the loyalty of Yevgeny Prigozhin. He is confronting him face on, so now he needs to make sure that the others, strong military leaders around him, Ramzan Kadyrov being the principal one, the Chechen leader, that he has his loyalty, and he got that very quickly, Kadyrov coming in and following behind Putin, calling what Prigozhin was doing treason.

He has called, Putin has also spoken with the leaders that have been put in place in the breakaway regions inside Ukraine, they of course have folded in behind Putin. Interestingly, one of them, though, in the Donetsk region, the Russian-backed leader there, has said this is a difficult situation because Prigozhin and in his fights there had actually done actually the impossible. That's high praise. Yet he also came out and said he supports Putin. Putin has called neighboring countries as well.

I think if you look historically, when the Soviet Union was going down, those neighboring states said that they were behind the Soviet leadership, but when the reality push came to shove and the Soviet Union collapsed, of course they weren't. They were ready to break away. So I think that we can't take everything that we hear at face value.

But Prigozhin is tactically smart. He has a narrative that resonates with the troops, that resonates with some of the population. He appears to be holed up. He has sent a small mobile force north toward Moscow. And it will be a win for him, if Russian forces go out and kill other Russians in the full sight of the media in Russia. That's Prigozhin's strength, to play up his hand as much as he can while he can in media, on social media channels while Putin controls the main narrative on the main principle Russian state channels.

BLITZER: Good point. Nick Robertson, Natasha Bertrand, guys, thank you very much. Coming up, we will have more on the leader of the Wagner group and how he became such a powerful force inside Russia.

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BLITZER: And welcome back to our special coverage of the truly historic political and military uncertainty that's developing right now inside Russia. The Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is saying that his group took control of military headquarters in Rostov, in his words, without firing a shot. But Russian state media reports that several gunshots and an explosion were heard outside that complex.

Prigozhin has been a close ally of the Kremlin, Putin, and Putin for that matter, for several years, and is a key player in Russia's war against Ukraine. But now he is demanding a meeting with Russia's defense minister and top general. CNN's senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen is joining us right now. Fred, first of all, give us a better sense of who this Prigozhin really is.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Wolf, he is one of the most powerful figures in Russia, and obviously, grasping for even more right now, but certainly didn't start out that way. He was in jail for several years in the 1980s, in the Soviet Union, then started out selling hot dogs in the Saint Petersburg area, then became known as Putin's chef. And that's where his career really took a meteoric rise. And now he is obviously someone who is not only defying Putin but also challenging the Ministry of Defense.

[10:35:08]

Here is what we know about Yevgeny Prigozhin.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

PLEITGEN: He's long been a well-known mercenary leader around the world. Now, Yevgeny Prigozhin is a wanted man in Russia as well. His often merciless group of fighters is now pitted against the Russian military leadership, and Prigozhin is suddenly Moscow's public enemy number one. Vladimir Putin calling for Prigozhin's group to lay down their arms.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods, will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people.

PLEITGEN: He may now be something of a nemesis to Vladimir Putin, but it was his decades long relationship with the Russian president that allowed Prigozhin to establish his own militia, the Wagner Group. Wagner served as a private army doing controversial jobs that often not even Russia's military could do. Prigozhin, a former prisoner himself and self-styled hard man from Saint Petersburg, used Wagner to operate around the world. CNN has tracked Wagner mercenaries to the Central African Republic, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Ukraine, and to Syria. Along the way, Prigozhin enriched himself. Rights groups have accused Wagner of horrific violence, like this, Wagner fighters allegedly smashing the feet and hands of a Syrian prisoner with a sledgehammer in 2017. The man reportedly died after his ordeal. The images are incredibly disturbing, like so many others attributed to his group.

For many years, Prigozhin denied the existence of Wagner, its work best done in secret. A master of mythmaking, it was Prigozhin and Wagner who set up the notorious Russian troll farm used to spread disinformation around the 2016 U.S. presidential election. But when his fighters took to the battlefield in eastern Ukraine and began winning battles, Prigozhin seemed to want the spotlight.

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD OF THE WAGNER GROUP (through translator): The Bakhmut operation began on October 8th, 2022, in order to give the battered Russian army an opportunity to recover. Our guys stormed this city for 224 days. There were only Wagner private forces here.

PLEITGEN: His tactics included flinging poorly armed and poorly trained troops into the so-called meatgrinder of war in Ukraine's east, suffering a shocking number of casualties in an attempt to overwhelm defenses. Prigozhin rubbed his victories in the face of Russia's flailing defense department, venting his fury at the haphazardness and ill planning of Russia's illegal invasion, and chastising the Russian top brass, mocking Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

PRIGOZHIN (through translator): You think you are the masters of this life? You think you can dispose of their lives? You think because you have warehouses full of ammunition, that you have that right?

PLEITGEN: Now, the Kremlin's secret weapon may be its biggest threat.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PLEITGEN: And that's exactly what seems to be the case, Wolf, as that convoy of Prigozhin's men seems to be moving closer to Moscow, again, going after the Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the chief of staff, Valery Gerasimov. Wolf?

BLITZER: Fred Pleitgen in Berlin for us, thank you very much.

Joining us now, CNN military analyst, the former NATO supreme allied commander, retired general Wesley Clark. General, thank you very much for joining us. As you well know, Prigozhin is demanding a meeting with Russia's defense minister and a top Russian general. He is pledging to move to Moscow if that meeting doesn't happen. Do you expect all of this, and this is great uncertainty right now, but do you expect it to escalate this tension?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I think it will escalate unless Russian forces are able to crush these columns moving to Moscow. What Prigozhin has got to do, if he is going to succeed, is take control of the media. He's got to get his message out more widely. It's coming out on his Instagram channel and we're picking it up in the west, but are the Russian people getting it?

Usually, for a coup to work like this, you've got to have control of the television and the radio. To do that, you've probably got to get to Moscow. Calling for a meeting with the minister of defense Shoigu, that's a sly way of trying to get at Putin without directly attacking Putin. But he's attacked all of the things Putin has said. He said the war is illegal. He said that basically that all Russians are doing is killing the Russian-speaking Ukrainians that they are supposedly there to protect. He said there was no threat. He's undercut the complete rationale of the war.

[10:40:02]

And so this is much, much broader, than simply requesting a meeting with Shoigu. That's just the ploy here. Now, can he get to Moscow? Don't know. That depends on what inroads he's made in other Russian intelligence groups and in Russian military groups. So the next 24, 48 hours, are critical.

If he moves, if he gets to Moscow, if units begin to defect to Prigozhin, then we'll know how serious this really is. If that column is stopped, Russian forces will move back toward Rostov, there will be some discombobulation, no doubt, in the Russian defenses in Ukraine, maybe there will be some Russian reserves pulled out of Ukraine to go after Rostov and Prigozhin, but they will seal it off. So we've got to keep our eye on what's going on in Moscow, or toward Moscow.

BLITZER: If that meeting is granted, the one that Prigozhin wants with the Russian defense ministry and the top Russian general, and none of us know if that will happen, but what do you think would come from a meeting like that?

CLARK: I think he would try to arrest them and put them on trial in front of the Russian people, accusing them publicly of their failures and all of the mistakes they've made.

BLITZER: The apparent mutiny unraveled after a Wagner camp was hit by an alleged air strike. The Russian military has denied any involvement, but then that happened Friday afternoon. Then they took over the military headquarters in Rostov-on-Don just a few hours later. That's a pretty quick turnaround. Do you think this has been planned for some time?

CLARK: I think it's unclear exactly what happened. So it may have been planned. It may have been that the Russian military struck pre- emptively to try to stop Prigozhin's move. Maybe they knew about it. On the other hand, it maybe it that there wasn't a strike on Prigozhin. This could all be a pretext. Or he could have done some of it himself. We don't know at this stage. At least we don't know publicly.

I'm sure our sources know exactly what is happening, but what I don't think anybody can determine is the likelihood of defection, whether where that Prigozhin is saying, what he's doing, the movement toward Moscow, is going to bring other forces in on his side, or whether Putin's chain of command, Shoigu's chain of command really, will rally and crush the forces moving toward Moscow.

BLITZER: And very quickly, General Clark, because we are almost out of time, but you're the former NATO supreme allied commander. What should U.S. and NATO allies be looking for right now? How does this affect them?

CLARK: Well, the concern would be that there would be some opportunity, some need on Putin's part, to raise the stakes, to get the Russian people more involved on his side, by claiming some NATO provocation, by raising the nuclear war posture, by going into some country like Latvia to say that there's been a threat from Latvia, to try to rally Russia to his side. So we've got to be very alert to that.

BLITZER: Very careful indeed. The stakes right now are enormous. Retired General Wesley Clark, thank you so much for joining us.

Coming up, world leaders are reacting to the unfolding, very dramatic situation happening inside Russia right now. As Ukraine calls on its allies to help end what it calls Russian President Vladimir Putin's evil regime. Much more of our special coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This morning, leaders from around the world are reacting to the escalating situation in Russia after the head of the Wagner private military group launched what the Russian President Vladimir Putin is calling an armed uprising. CNN's chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us right now. Nick, the Wagner group has threatened to go directly into Moscow. How do you see this playing out right now? What is your sense?

WALSH: Yes, the question really, Wolf, is the pace at which this apparent group of Wagner fighters makes toward the capital. Now hour by hour, in an extraordinary day, where they began, remarkably, seizing the key southern town of Rostov-on-Don, we've seen their progress up the main highway, the M-4, through Voronezh, about halfway up there. The governor now saying that there have been combat measures taken by the Russian military. You're seeing there explosions from what looked like to be helicopter-based clashes over that particular city. A projectile landed there. State media, quoting to a local man talking about how the glass was blown out. State media also saying an MI-8 attack helicopter made a hard landing in that particular area.

Then we have the next region, Lipetsk, the governor there saying that Wagner vehicles are moving through the region, saying that police and law enforcement are doing what they can to protect the local population. But now Kaluga, the next one, saying in fact that they're limiting traffic on the roads. Perhaps that's a sign of continued progress, Wolf.

BLITZER: Nick Paton Walsh reporting for us. Nick, thank you very much.

We will have much more on how this unfolding, very important dramatic situation inside Russia could affect the war in Ukraine. We're getting new information. That will be straight ahead.

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BLITZER: This morning, Ukraine is calling on its allies to help end what it calls Russian President Vladimir Putin's evil regime. The Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia's, quote, weakness has been exposed in light of an insurrection started by the Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin. CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is joining us live from the war zone in Zaporizhzhia in Ukraine right now. So first of all, Ben, how is all of this likely to affect the war in Ukraine?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question everyone is asking here, is that what is Ukraine going to do to sort of react to what appears to be the Russian military establishment writ large starting to fight among itself. Now, as far as the situation on the front goes, we were down in one area where we saw, in the southern part of the country, where we saw a lot of equipment, a lot of men, clearly poised to go into action, but nothing yet.

[10:55:07]

We've been in contact with Ukrainian troops in the Bakhmut area, where previously, of course, the Wagner Group had actually been key in taking that city. They tell us Russian lines are still holding. But clearly, this is a moment when Ukraine should be prepared to move given that their enemy seems to be in such disarray. Wolf?

BLITZER: Very serious disarray indeed. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much. We'll get back to you soon.

We continue to follow all of these historic developments out of Russia right now. Our special live coverage continues. CNN is learning, by the way, that the U.S. and western allies were, in fact, caught off guard by the escalation between Putin and the Wagner group. We're getting reaction from around the world, much more on that coming up right at the top of the hour. We'll be back in a few minutes right after a short break.

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