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Russia Accuses Wagner Group Of Urging "Armed Rebellion"; West Caught Off Guard By Russian Power Struggle. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 24, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:38]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from London.

We're following breaking news out of Russia right now. And very dramatic, indeed historic developments raising serious questions about President Vladimir Putin's grip on power inside Russia.

Putin is accusing the Wagner mercenary group of an armed rebellion. The head of the Wagner group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his forces have now taken control of Russian military facilities in the region of Rostov-on-Don. The Russian governor in the (INAUDIBLE) region is calling on Prigozhin to abandon his plans.

But Prigozhin threatens to move on to Moscow. Yes, to Moscow, if Russia's top general and defense minister don't meet with him directly. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, HEAD, WAGNER GROUP (through translator): Again, we came here. We want to receive the chief of general staff and Shoigu until they are here.

Until they are here, we will be located here, blockading the city of Rostov and we'll go to Moscow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Putin calls the actions by Prigozhin a betrayal and a stab in the back -- his words -- to the Russian people. And he says those who follow him will pay the price. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And we are getting new pictures in from an oil depot fire in a Russian city of Voronezh. The governor there says more than 100 firefighters and 30 vehicles are on-site. There are no reports of deaths or injury, at least not yet.

We're following all of these developments on what's happening inside Russia with our reporters and our analysts. Let's get an update right now, first of all on what is happening inside Russia right now.

Our chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is tracking these developments for us. Bring us up to speed, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes Wolf. It does appear that this column of Wagner, we don't know how big they are, but they appear to be moving towards the Russian capital Moscow.

Now you saw there images from Voronezh, where we've heard from state media of an NI-8 attack helicopter making a hard landing. Locals talking about munitions landing causing damage. There are videos of what seems to be a sort of clash with helicopters over the skies there, causing one explosion.

So clearly, the violence moving up the highway towards Voronezh. That is essentially halfway on the road from Rostov-on-Don, that key southern city, you saw the pictures there, from up towards the capital Moscow.

Now, we're hearing that in Lipetsk, the next region up north towards Moscow the governor is saying Wagner vehicles are moving through there. Interestingly, he is saying that police and law enforcement are protecting the local population but not giving an indication necessary to try to stop Wagner from moving.

Next is Kaluga, and local officials there are telling people to stay essentially off the streets, trying to limit traffic around there. So it is clear that Wagner, however many this column consists of, whatever their ultimate goal when they get to the capital is, fast approaching on Moscow.

And this caps an extraordinary day that began with the unthinkable already, frankly, Prigozhin controlling the Rostov-on-Don key southern military city.

You saw in that earlier video, him sat, relaxed, chatting to two Russian commanders there one of whom had in fact appeared yesterday on Friday on television. Telling people to essentially not listen to this Wagner insurrection.

Now, he is pretty relaxed and he sat next to the man indeed leading it. Here, it appears, sparked this through a speech on Friday, questioning the rationale behind the war, saying that Russia wasn't about to be attacked by NATO, that Russians weren't being persecuted, really suggesting that this disastrous misadventure for Putin was essentially another blunder of judgment, to even have begun in the first place.

And that seems to, he says, cause an air strike on a camp inside of Ukraine, and then his forces appear to have quite prepared, quite large in number, moved on Rostov-on-Don.

[11:04:53]

WALSH: So an ultimate question really here, Wolf, after this extraordinary fast pace of events today is exactly what the Russian military is willing to do. Are they going to potentially engage in fratricide against ex-soldiers that make up the Wagner forces? Have they got adequate number in strength given how exhausted Russian military is by the fight in Ukraine to defend Moscow? Or are we going to see Wagner move quickly into the castle (ph)?

What does that do to Putin's grip on power? Once more, note here Wolf that will they defend Moscow, (INAUDIBLE) just now, Iran, a long ally for Russia in this, assisting them with drones over the fight in Ukraine has referred to this in a statement as an internal matter.

Now, that is not a resounding public show of support for Vladimir Putin. So things are changing very fast inside Russia and out of it, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh on the news, reporting for us. Thank you very much.

Sources meanwhile tell CNN that western allies were reportedly caught off-guard by what we've seen transpiring in Russia today. And that includes the White House, which is closely monitoring all of the situation.

Joining us now, CNN's Natasha Bertrand. She's joining us from the Pentagon and Priscilla Alvarez is over at the White House for us right now.

Natasha, what more can you tell us, first of all, about what U.S. and western officials know about this current, very dramatic, historic situation that is unfolding?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes Wolf. Well, we don't know a whole lot at this moment. They're watching it very closely to see how things unfold in the next 24-48 hours and importantly they're going to be watching how long Wagner can keep this up before they run into supply shortages.

But broadly, the administration as well as Western officials were caught off guard by how fast this all escalated because they have, of course, been watching very closely the deteriorating relationship between Prigozhin and the Russian ministry of defense, with Prigozhin repeatedly accusing the Russian military of depriving his troops and of Russian troops inside Ukraine with key ammunition and other equipment they need and essentially leaving them there to die.

But they did not know at what point this would actually reach this tipping point and few could predict, according to our sources, just how far Prigozhin would be willing to go here, in terms of actually storming Rostov-on-Don, and moving his forces even further towards Moscow.

That was not something that U.S. officials were anticipating, and last night, we are told they did convene emergency meetings across the U.S. government, to try to assess the situation, which of course, is very concerning to U.S. and western officials, because of the instability that it creates inside Russia, which is a nuclear-armed state.

And so they're watching this very closely, the Brits as well. They have convened an emergency meeting this morning to try to figure out how this might impact foreign nationals and British nationals inside Russia at this moment.

So everyone kind of trying to scramble at this moment to figure out what this means, how far Wagner can actually get, but of course, it was very difficult, if not impossible, to predict, that Prigozhin would actually go this far, and challenge the Russian military inside Russia itself, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by for a minute. I want to go to Priscilla over at the White House. What do we know, first of all Priscilla, about what is happening inside the White House right now, normally as a former White House correspondent, you would anticipate that the president and his top national security leaders would be meeting inside the White House situation room, going through this. But what do we know?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a White House official told me just moments ago that President Biden has been updated again this morning on the unfolding situation in Russia.

Now, of course, White House officials have been actively monitoring what is happening on the ground. Though they have been cautious about how much they weigh in, as they try to wrap their arms around the situation.

A National Security Council spokesman had previously told CNN that they were monitoring this and also in touch with allies and partners over the situation.

Now, we know that as early as January, administration officials were watching this power struggle that was happening between this mercenary Wagner group and the Russian government. And we know that they were trying to get a sense of what was happening, and they believe that tensions would mount. And that is what is happening on the ground now.

Now again, it is important that they are talking with allies and partners, and we heard from the State Department moments ago that Secretary of State Antony Blinken has been in touch with G-7 allies as well as E.U. counterparts about what is happening and also reiterating the U.S. support for Ukraine, and saying that that remains unchanged.

So the situation as we know it now is that there are conversations happening behind the scenes, between top U.S. officials, as we heard already, from Secretary of State Antony Blinken and that President Biden is being updated as this unfolds.

So waiting to hear more from the White House on all of these fronts, Wolf.

BLITZER: I'm sure we'll be getting more information soon. Priscilla, thank you. Natasha, thanks to you as well.

This just in to CNN. The governor of the Russian region of Voronezh says the Wagner group is moving through right now.

[11:09:57]

BLITZER: I want to bring in our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto. Jim, this seemed to catch so many people off guard. What has been the reaction from the U.S. intelligence community, and specifically what are you hearing from the House and Senate Intelligence Committees?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, U.S. and Western intelligence are describing this now as, in the words of U.K. intelligence, an outright military confrontation in Russia.

They are taking this very seriously. This has gone from something that they were trying to figure out how serious Prigozhin's intentions were, to them acknowledging that this is a direct threat to Putin's leadership. Or at least that's Prigozhin's intention, it appears here.

They have also been watching now for how far he and his forces can go, in effect. So they have taken control of Rostov-on-Don. That has significance given that it is a power center, a logistics center for Russian forces operating in Ukraine. But as they send their forces north, what western intelligence has been watching very closely is how regular army units, Russian regular army units respond to the advance of the Wagner group, this paramilitary group.

And so far, Western intelligence has noted that along the way, at least some of those Russian regular army units have been passive in response, not necessarily joining Prigozhin, but not stopping him. Letting him and his forces continue on their way.

We should note as well that it appears that Prigozhin's forces, as they move north, have deliberately avoided some of the city centers as they go north. It's Western intelligence's view that that is intention to avoid coming into contact or conflict with Russian military garrisons along the way.

In other words, find an easier path north to the Russian capital, where our understanding is that there are defensive preparations under way, in the Russian capital. But that is the focus now.

This is a serious challenge. Outright military confrontation in Russia. And Western intelligence watching to see what the reaction is from those regular Russian military forces as Wagner forces move north.

BLITZER: Yes. And what really worries the U.S. and other NATO allies is the stability of the Russian nuclear arsenal right now, tactical nuclear weapons, for example. They're worried about all of this, as they should be.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BLITZER: Do we have a better understanding yet, Jim, on how all of this -- these dramatic developments inside Russia could affect the war in Ukraine?

SCIUTTO: Well, one immediate effect is that Rostov-on-Don is a forward operating base to some degree, right, for Russian forces in Ukraine. It's a logistical center, supplies, head to Russian forces on the front lines in Ukraine from there. But it is also a command and control center. And the pictures we have there right now are Wagner forces taking over the HQ, the headquarters there in Rostov-on-Don.

So that is believed to have an effect over time. In terms of immediate fighting on the battlefield, as I speak to military sources. They make the point that Russian defenses inside Ukraine are fixed. They've been digging in there for weeks and months. So those trenches, those minefields and the various other barriers to armor, et cetera, they don't disappear suddenly. They're still in place, and you do still have thousands of Russian forces deployed there.

Possible they haven't heard of events inside Russia, so they continue to fight. Over time though, the question is, can they get the supplies, the ammunition, the support that they need to continue fighting. And then it becomes a question of a morale issue, if those forces and their commanders become aware of trouble at home, right?

And then they begin to ask the question who is in charge. But the defensive positions, from the U.S. military view are fixed, so it is not clear that this immediately leads to an effect on the battlefield, but over time, particularly with the loss of Rostov-on-Don to Wagner forces, it's expected to have an effect for sure.

BLITZER: It certainly will. And it is so embarrassing, so humiliating, personally, to Putin, and his top leadership as well.

I'm curious, Jim, I'm curious what you're learning about how Ukraine eventually winds up handling this dramatic situation. Obviously, the Wagner group is responsible for so many Ukrainian deaths over these past several months, but does this become a scenario where the enemy of their enemy is their friend?

SCIUTTO: It's a great question. And listen, when we look at the fighting in Bakhmut that you and I spoke about multiple times over recent weeks and months, some of the most brutal fighting in this war so far. It was Wagner forces that were leading the charge, in effect, for Russian forces there. So they inflicted as you know, enormous losses on Ukrainian forces during that time period.

[11:15:00]

SCIUTTO: So now, you have Prigozhin going after the person who ordered the invasion. We know this because they have been tweeting about it, and commenting publicly on it, since the start of these events last night. Ukrainian officials, members of parliament, et cetera, are watching these events closely, and some of them even, you know, somewhat facetiously, saying they're doing so, breaking out the popcorn. I mean their image there.

In other words that they are watching these events inside Russia with pleasure, in effect, to see Russia having these sorts of divisions here.

Whether they can find themselves arm in arm with Prigozhin's army at some point, it is another thing. But I think the focus right now is that they see weakness in Russia, a weakness for Putin And they hope that this is something that Ukrainian forces can take advantage of, can take advantage of in Ukraine going forward.

BLITZER: And none of us knows how this is all going to play out. I remember going to Moscow and covering the failed KGB coup back in August of 1991. If someone would have told me then that that failed coup would lead up a few months later in December of 1991, to the collapse of the Soviet Union, I would have thought they were nuts.

So you never know how these situations on the streets of Moscow and elsewhere wind up playing out. It is so dramatic, so powerful right now and as I keep saying, the stakes not just for Russia but the neighboring countries and for the U.S., the NATO allies right now are enormous.

Jim Sciutto, thanks as usual.

We're closely monitoring this unprecedented situation in Russia right now. We're going to explain the situation and take a much closer look at the man behind this escalation. We'll do that when we come back.

[11:16:40]

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BLITZER: The Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin rose to prominence as a very close ally of Vladimir Putin. But now, he's leading what Putin says is a rebellion against him.

Let's go to our senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen. He's watching all of this unfold. Fred, give us a better sense right now of who Prigozhin is.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Certainly someone who was very important, until very recently, was very important for Vladimir Putin and also helped Vladimir Putin to do some of the things that are quite shady and were impossible for the actual regular Russian military to do.

One of the things, of course, that we've been talking about is he started from very humble beginnings, in the St. Petersburg area, which is of course, the same place that Vladimir Putin is from as well.

He spent a couple of years in jail in the 80s, then started off selling hot dogs and then became known as we've been saying as Putin's chef, doing some catering. He had a catering company. And that then expanded into this giant empire which had that propaganda, as he calls it, journalism part of it, with the Internet research agency that of course the U.S. says was very much a part of meddling in the 2016 elections. He was one of 13 people who was indicted for that in the United States.

But then also, the Wagner private military company. And you know, one of the interesting things is that military companies like that, private military companies, are actually illegal under Russian law. Nevertheless, they were doing Russia's bidding in so many places.

You look at Syria, where we saw them, near the battlefields in Syria, on the side of Bashar al-Assad, then often doing base protection but also guarding oil wells, for instance, as well. Some of those dealings in Africa, when you're talking about gold and diamond trade there, a lot of that also under very shady circumstances.

And a lot of people say quite brutally as well. Training the security forces of some African countries, and supporting them, in some pretty brutal operations as well.

But it wasn't until the Ukraine war, Wolf, that this turned into one of the most powerful armies in that part of Europe. They now have tanks. They have artillery. And you know, I ='ve been under fire in Bakhmut from what was presumably Wagner positions. So they have some of the heaviest weapons that are out there. And so that's one of the reasons why Yevgeny Prigozhin is now such a threat to Vladimir Putin and also of course to the defense minister, to Sergei Shoigu.

One of the things that's also interesting, Wolf, is that these Wagner fighters, they do have a lot of respect, among a lot of people in the Russian armies. They're known to be very tough. They're known to be very good at what they do. Yes he does use prisoners or former Russian jail prisoners in some cases.

But in general the Wagner fighters are very well respected by Russian soldiers and so that might be one of the reasons why now, on the ground, we're not seeing much in the way of resistance, from the Russian military, in places like Rostov.

Again, a pretty dangerous situation for Vladimir Putin, by someone who came to power and who came to wealth thanks to Vladimir Putin and for being a very important asset of Vladimir Putin as well, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Fred Pleitgen, reporting for us from berlin. Thanks very much.

We're watching all of this unfold right now. And joining us now CNN military analyst, retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. General Kimmitt, how is this going to play out on the battlefield in Ukraine? You've been studying this.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, I think Jim Sciutto has it exactly right when he talked about the criticality of the Rostov-on-Don military headquarters. That's the organization responsible for the entire Ukraine front.

The Russians fight in a very centralized manner, and candidly, a defensive operation takes the most centralization of all. Right now, there's probably a lot of question about what's going on inside those headquarters, who they can trust, who they can't, who they can rely on.

And candidly, I think that this is the opportunity the Ukrainians have been looking for, to conduct a counteroffensive, and they ought to take advantage of the situation now.

[11:24:56]

BLITZER: Let's see if they do. As you know, Russia has warned Western countries to not try to use all of this, what's unfolding right now inside Russia, to their advantage. What does that say to you, General, about the state Russia is in right now?

KIMMITT: Well, we've heard these kind of messages in various ways throughout the war.

If you do x, we're going to use nuclear weapons. If you do y, we're going to do attack and separation, nuclear facility. I think we just got to recognize that there may not be another opportunity like this, even at the risk of this playing out, the Russian forces on the defense are only going to get stronger. They're only going to get more centralized if things work out for Putin.

So this may be the time to take that calculated risk and push those forces through that very, very tough defensive line.

BLITZER: Let's see if they do. Rostov, this area, as you know, is a major transportation hub for the Russian military right now. So what does it mean for Russian forces in Ukraine, if that city remains in the hands of the Wagner mercenary group?

KIMMITT: Well, that goes to the point about the command and control, not only the command and control, but all the logistics, all the air support, all the cannon support -- everything that they need, the Russians need to conduct an effective defense, comes through Rostov- on-Don. Both the command, the control, the logistics, the orders.

So that hub right now seems to be out of the game. And if the Ukrainians fight now, that may be an opportunity that they won't see again.

BLITZER: Do you think the Russians will use air power to try to kill and attack these Wagner forces?

KIMMITT: I think Putin at this point will do whatever he can to stay in power. If that involves using air power against them, I don't see why he would hold back to prevent a coup or a rebellion.

BLITZER: Yes. And that's certainly a possibility, in the works right now. A spokesperson for the Ukrainian military, General, says this rebellion will benefit Ukraine because these Wagner fighters, in their words, are much more skilled than the Russian military.

Do you see this as potentially an opening, an important opening for Ukraine as it begins to launch its counter-offensive?

KIMMITT: Well, I do. But again, remember, they did start the counter- offensive already. They didn't have a lot of success with it. They've pulled back. And then now, they're starting to plan how to get through those very tough defensive lines and those very tough troops.

If you take the Wagner forces off the battlefield, if you take effective command and control off the battle field, and hopefully Zelenskyy is seeing this as a time to figure out what the next steps are on the battlefield for he and his forces.

BLITZER: If you were a Ukrainian defense official, General, what would be your next move?

KIMMITT: I would be checking my logistics, I would be checking to see the status of the forces, their readiness, where they're located right now. Are they able to mass together in a very short period of time, to get that punch that would be needed to get through those front lines at a specific point?

I would be talking to my allies in Europe and in the United States, to make sure their understanding of what we're looking at right now on the ground, and make sure that they don't try to hold us back, and they recognize the opportunity that we're looking at right now.

BLITZER: Retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, thanks as usual for joining us.

Still ahead, we're closely monitoring this truly unprecedented situation unfolding in Russia right now. We are going to explain the situation and how Ukraine and its allies are responding. That's coming up.

We'll be right back.

[11:29:01]

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BLITZER: We're continuing to follow these truly dramatic historic developments out of Russia right now, where the leader of the Wagner mercenary group is calling for an armed rebellion against Putin.

The private military group now claims to have taken control of key military facilities in two Russian cities. The Russian president Vladimir Putin calls the act an armed mutiny. He's warning that those responsible will be in his words "punished".

Wagner is said to be marching toward Moscow, right now, and the governor of the southern Russian region of Lipetsk says Wagner is moving heavy equipment through his territory. That territory by the way is about 250 miles from Moscow. Security is now extremely tight in the Russian capital city, which is

preparing anti-terrorist measures. That's what authorities are calling it.

Joining us now Peter Bergen and Beth Sanner, both CNN national security analysts. Peter, at least one Russian general has called this a coup. His word, a "coup". Prigozhin says it's not a coup but what he calls a "march for justice" in Russia.

Putin likened what he now faces to the Russian revolution back in 1917. So how significant is it? And how worried do you think Putin is right now?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Wolf, I think he's very worried. I mean Putin is an adept student of Russian history and he knows very well the most dangerous thing you can do as a Russian leader is lose a war. You think about the withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989, two years later, you have the end of the Soviet Union. These things are linked.

[11:34:52]

BERGEN: You think about the 1905 Russian/Japanese war, which the Russians lost to the Japanese. And then in 1917, they were losing in World War I and this leads to mutinies, a familiar term here, which leads to the collapse of the Romanov empire.

So I think, you know, Putin in his speech addressing these issues mentioned the 1917 revolution. Not for the first time he re-wrote a history a bit saying that there was a stab in the back and that's why the Russians lost.

No, the Russians lost because of their incompetence. And then there were military mutinies which led to the rise of the Bolshevik Party which of course, is the communist party of today.

So Putin understands this history very well, he knows it is an existential threat to him.

BLITZER: It certainly is.

Putin, Beth, as you know, has stayed in power over these past what 23 years or so by playing rival factions against each other in Russia. Is what we are seeing the result of Putin failing to keep one of his underlings in check, namely Prigozhin?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think so. I think that this is just another example of Putin making, you know, a colossal error in judgment, and misunderstanding what was going on.

Now, I do think that he was afraid to muzzle Prigozhin, and that's why he did that. And you know, this idea of maybe Prigozhin letting off steam, those kinds of things. But I mean really, a month ago, it should have been obvious to Putin that he needed to put some kind of muzzle on Prigozhin, and stop this from happening, because it was getting out of hand. And now, look what's happened. So absolutely another colossal error of

judgment.

BLITZER: Yes. Indeed. Major, major blunder on the part of Putin.

Putin, Peter, as you know, has repeatedly targeted over these years those who try to grab more power than he allotted them. So how serious of a threat does he face right now?

BERGEN: Well, you know, Prigozhin has by some accounts 25,000 armed men, many of whom are very battle hardened. You know, the thing about coups or mutinies or revolutions is it's not clear to the people involved as it's happening what the outcome is going to be. I mean so none of us talking about this including the key players, Prigozhin and Putin, they have no idea how this is going to turn out.

So -- but you know, as I mentioned, I think Putin is an avid student of Russian history. He knows that the real threat from within is from a military force, not from the civil society, which he's basically extinguished. So you know, I'm sure he is extremely worried.

BLITZER: A lot of us are wondering, Beth, what all this means, what is unfolding in Russia right now -- what all this means ultimately for the people of Ukraine.

SANNER: Yes. Well, I mean it could be a point that we look back and say that was it, that was the watershed moment that led to Ukraine prevailing.

At this point, I'd say, you know, that's kind of getting ahead of ourselves a little bit. I don't think that we've seen any signs of movements on the battlefield, but this obviously will have long-term implications, no matter what happens here, even if in the next hour, Putin is able to take out Prigozhin in some miracle.

Even if that happens, we are going to see a weakening of the Russian military that already has fissures and fractures and very low morale.

And people on the front lines are watching Telegram channels and thinking like, hmm, maybe I don't want to die for this. So we don't really know how this will turn out. But I think that -- I do think that it is going to have implications that we are not yet able to see, that will be pretty fundamental.

BLITZER: Peter, how concerned should the West, the U.S. and the NATO allies specifically, be about what is happening inside Russia right now?

BERGEN: Very concerned. Because I mean Putin has repeatedly flirted with the idea of using tactical nuclear weapons. And you know, the question of command and control of these nuclear weapons is something the United States is very cognizant of. And you know, we don't know what Putin might do if his back is completely against the wall.

There have been multiple occasions where he has hinted we would use these weapons. So to me, that would be the main concern here. [11:39:51]

BLITZER: Yes, I agree. And Beth, do you want to give me a final thought on that?

SANNER: Yes. I mean you know, I think that the prospects of use of a nuclear weapon is very low, but not zero. And so again, as things unfold in unpredictable ways, a week ago, impossible really for us to imagine that we are here today.

War, as one of the great military and historian Clausewitz says, is full of friction and fog and very hard to predict. So I think that everybody in the intelligence community and the White House and our allies have good reason to be watching this closely, as I'm sure they are.

BLITZER: I'm sure they are indeed. All right. Beth Sanner, Peter Bergen -- thanks to both of you.

Countries around the world right now are urging calm amid these escalating tensions inside Russia. The diplomatic implications of this dramatic escalation inside Russia. We'll have more on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:00]

BLITZER: The Russian president Vladimir Putin is vowing to take action after Yevgeny Prigozhin, the leader of the Russian mercenary group Wagner, claims to have seized two key Russian military facilities in southern Russia, not far from Ukraine, by the way.

Prigozhin denies his acts are a coup, saying instead that the takeovers are what he calls a "march of justice" that will not interfere with Russia's armed forces, he says, in any way.

Joining us now, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is watching all of this very closely as we all are. Nic, how does this impact the way the Russian people, for that matter, view this war in Ukraine?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It certainly is exposing the differences, the fissures in views. Prigozhin has been absolutely clear, and Putin hasn't answered the criticism. And that criticism is that the war shouldn't have been fought, or it was fought for the wrong reasons.

It has been fought at the expense of a lot of lives that have been lost that shouldn't have been lost, because soldiers didn't have the proper equipment, enough ammunition, the proper training.

Putin has not responded to Prigozhin's criticisms there whatsoever. So this is going to amplify that issue. Now Putin controls the state media so he can control the message. But Prigozhin has been very good using social media to get his message out. And speaking to at least one long-time contact in Moscow, his first

point today was, this is going to throw into sharp focus for everyone the war, and whether or not we should be fighting it.

So one of the outcomes here for many people in Russia, is going to be, does this change the war? Do we stop? How do we fight it? Do we stop fighting it? Do we fight it in a different way?

But there are many other questions here, of course, to watch.

BLITZER: There certainly are. The Kremlin says that Turkey's Erdogan expressed what they call full support in a phone call with Putin. Do these developments change the way though Russia's allies are acting, the way they act going forward?

ROBERTSON: Certainly, the United States and Ukraine's allies will be hoping it does, that it throws the judgment of, for example, Xi Jinping, who has already expressed concerns about how the war, Putin's war in Ukraine, is affecting stability in the region, and about how it is going.

So the fact that it brings greater instability to Russia, which is what is happening here, which is a complete blowback for Putin, is not going to enthrall his allies whatsoever.

They are going to see Putin's assessment of the situation, and whenever they engage with his foreign minister or defense minister or whomever, they're going to look at them and say, well, actually, do you really know what is going on? Do you really have control of what is going on in your own country? That doesn't help Putin here.

I think what Prigozhin is doing on the ground at the moment gives everyone a little bit more time, both Putin's allies and Ukraine's allies, in the West, to analyze what is going on.

I say that because Putin and his military are generally slow to react. Prigozhin has got himself in a pretty safe spot, it seems, in Rostov, because it is at the center of one of the key hubs for Russia's fight in Ukraine. So Russia can't go after him.

Prigozhin has sent a small detachment towards Moscow. That seems more for theater than really to accomplish anything on the ground in Moscow. I think we're in a situation right now that slow rolls. But you have to caveat every assessment that this is a changing situation and no assessment can last too long.

BLITZER: Yes. We'll see what happens. The stakes right now, I keep saying, are enormous. Nic Robertson, thank you.

We're going to have much more on all this breaking news coming up in just a minute. We're live in eastern Ukraine after a short break.

[11:49:01]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Ukraine's foreign minister says the Ukrainian military, and I'm quoting now, "will undoubtedly benefit from the rebellion unfolding right now inside Russia".

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says, and I'm quoting, Russia's actions in Ukraine have led it to the chaos it's now engulfed in back in Russia.

CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is joining us live from Zaporizhzhia in Ukraine. So Ben, first of all, how is this likely to affect the war in Ukraine that you're covering?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well certainly, what we've heard already Wolf, from a spokesman for Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine is they that they think it will have an impact on the front lines because the Wagner group has, it appears, withdrawn many of its troops from Ukraine back into Russia to take part in this insurrection.

Keep in mind that at the end of May, Wagner announced it was pulling its troops out of Bakhmut, where it has spent ten months trying to take that town from the Ukrainians. It's been replaced by less experienced basically Russian recruits who don't have the sort of -- they're not as battle-hardened as the Wagner troops. So that could make a difference.

[11:54:50]

WEDEMAN: And in general, certainly the fact that the main sort of command center for Russian troops in southern Ukraine is in Rostov-on- Don, in the place that of course, now Yevgeny Prigozhin and his mercenaries are in control.

So how they're going to coordinate Russian activities in Southern Ukraine while all of this is going on is frankly Wolf, anyone's guess.

BLITZER: Yes. A lot could go on right now. We're going to be watching all of this very, very closely as we should be.

Ben Wedeman, on the scene for us. Stay safe over there in Eastern Ukraine.

We will, of course, continue to follow all of these historic, very dramatic developments unfolding right now out of Russia throughout the day here on CNN.

Our special coverage continues next with Fredericka Whitfield and Christian Amanpour. They will take over right after a short break.

And I'll see you back here later today for a special two-hour edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 4:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

[11:56:00]

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